Sound quality differences in streamers


Can there be sonic differences between moderate and high priced streamers when used for streaming only. I will not use or engage an onboard DAC or any other feature, just stream from Tidal or Amazon to DAC. If the unit is just transferring zeros and ones to a DAC can there be differences in say a $300 WiiM and a $3000 dSC streamer? Thanks

kckrs

To the OP:  As you can see, there’s an ongoing debate among a number of us who’ve responded to your question that sometimes gets in the way of clarity.  So  I’ll speak directly to you in order to clarify my position, rather than have it cartoonishly misrepresented by others:

1)  Streamers work solely in the digital domain, and as such have no sonic signature of their own.  That doesn’t mean there aren’t differences in the sound across different streamers, because streamers do differ with respect to the noise they produce or suppress.  This noise - or its absence - can affect the extent to which you hear the true sonic signature of your DAC.  Many mistakenly attribute this interaction to the sound of the streamer.

2) There are relatively inexpensive streamers that are state-of-the-art in terms of minimizing noise.  This is relatively easy to measure.  

3) There is a wide variation among DACs regarding the extent to which they may be affected by noise from a streamer.  In the prior thread I shared with you, a general consensus emerged that the OP’s ARC DAC was probably highly insensitive to streamer noise, in part because all signals were reclocked.  Having said that, his DAC was very sensitive to RFI/EMI, so he could hear a significant difference between an $80 vs. $230 coax cable connected to his DAC.

4) Because of #3 above, you might be able to get away with a Bluesound or Wiim and experience great sound, depending on your DAC.  But because of #2 above, you can spend a little more than what a Wiim or Bluesound costs, but definitely under $2k, and have a high end streaming system with any good DAC.

5) You do not need to spend $10k (or $29k for gods sake) to have a high end streamer.  But there are $10k+ streamers out there that are beautifully made and wonderfully engineered that will sound great if you have a great DAC.

Hope that helps.  Good luck in your journey.

The so-called ’digital realm’ takes place on an analog carrier.

- - -

The link below is a worthwhile read.  It is an enlightening discussion about 1’s & 0’s and square waves by AudiogoN veterans:

- Almarg (physicist & multiple patent holder, RIP) 

- Audioengr (Steve Nugent, former design-team lead at Intel Corp & holder of 22 patents)

- - - 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/square-waves-or-1-s-and-0-s

1) Streamers work solely in the digital domain, and as such have no sonic signature of their own.

Unless the designer puts one there. It's easy enough to implement basic DSP functionality in FPGA chips.

 

The so-called ’digital realm’ takes place on an analog carrier.

The link below is a worthwhile read. It is an enlightening discussion about 1’s & 0’s and square waves by AudiogoN veterans:

- Almarg (physicist & multiple patent holder, RIP) 

- Audioengr (Steve Nugent, former design-team lead at Intel Corp & holder of 22 patents)

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/square-waves-or-1-s-and-0-s

@steakster

Thank you for sharing the link. That old Audiogon thread veers into a ditch early on due to an argument over, I guess, the physical representation of a digital signal being transmitted over a wire? I honestly doubt it is likely to enlighten anyone, but I could be wrong.

I am also not sure why you chose to present Steve Nugent as an Intel employee, rather than as the founder of a high-end audio equipment company.

One may disagree with Steve, and I can’t say I don’t, but there is no denying the fact that he is a brilliant albeit idiosyncratic thinker whose ideas deserve broader standing in the audiophile world. His columns in the old Positive Feedback should be required reading for anyone interested in digital audio, especially those endeavoring to hold forth about it in forums such as this one.

It should be pointed out that Steve’s digital credentials are impeccable; this is the person who brought Pentium II to the world, not just a "team lead". 🤣

Unfortunately none of this transpires from your above post or from the thread you linked. I just thought it would be fair to do Steve Nugent some justice, especially for the benefit of those unfamiliar with his work.