I suspect the Pass Labs XA30.5 Would be a good match with the 90 db sensitive Proac Speaker. It's 4 ohm nomlnal load shouldn't be a problem for this highly regarded SS amplifier. I don't believe that the Proac is considered to be a hard/difficult load and in fact many drive them successfully with tube amplifiers.
Charles, |
I found a Pass Labs XA30.5 in the second hand market and bought it. After some setup with cabling I find it sounds really well, mid bass is characteristic of solid state, it remembers me the AR 100.2 I had some years ago. Mids are very good, maybe not as good as REF110, and highs are very clear without sounding hash or analitical at any time. Soundstage is terrifing, I would say in the same league than REF110.
I have to listen it and take conclusions if it is enought satisfactory to replace the REF110. Both amplifiers sound different but enjoyable, I think.
My other doubth is if a Pass Labs XP-10 preamp could sound better than my AR REF 3 with the XA30.5. Maybe I will open another post.
Many thanks for posting and give advice. |
Ayre - can't think of another amp that would be comparable |
I guess I would ask the OP if the blown tube was an ARC tube, or from a different seller. ARC stands by their tubes and offers a warranty for a time period to include repairs. I have owned five different ARC tube amps, VT100mk2 through my current Ref150. The only time I had an issue was when I bought tubes from another supplier to save some cash. That cost me plenty, so I recommend ARC tubes for ARC gear.
Also, ARC does not fuse the amps in this way for performance reasons. If you want a lower performing tube amp which will blow a fuse, those are available.
I will say that I am seeing these solid state amps recommended as alternatives and having owned many of them, well, they are not in the same ballpark as your Ref110. That said, I do own an Ayre VX-5 which is a great solid state amp. Note that this is NOT the V5xe.
Just my .02 |
There are lots of tube amps that can equal or out-perform ARC amps AND have fused protection for the output tubes. Any output device tube or solid state can fail. A design that results in a major, $$, cascading failure as a result of a reasonably anticipated event, IMO, is not "good" design. Flame away. |
Swampwalker, I've been down "tube arc road" several times. Yes ... it's true, most times the tube arc took a bias resister out. But no flames, explosions, cascading oscillations that blew speakers, or Fourth of July explosions and sparks.
Yes ... it's also true that replacing the bias resisters is a PITA. Fortunately, there's an ARC authorized service tech about a 30 to 40 minute drive to my house who happens to make house call. It takes the rep about 30 minutes to pop in a new resister and I'm back in business pretty quickly.
Gary (Hifigeek) is an authorized ARC service tech. Perhaps he can bring some perspective to this issue. My guess is that this is more of a tube thing than a design thing. Tubes arc -- period. When they do, they will pop a fuse or a resister. If one owns tube gear -- this goes with the territory. Just my opinion. |
Once again, Conrad Johnson just released a solid-state power amp that will rival the last one (Premier SS350). |
I'm with Swampwalker on this issue. There are definitely tube amplifiers
that sound excellent and will blow a simple cheap fuse rather than take out
a resistor. I don't buy the ARC sound quality argument either. ARC is good
but there's better (matter of taste). A good friend had ARC for several years
and replaced it with VAC components which will blow a fuse instead of a
resistor. Nice as the ARC (no knock) was we both felt that the VAC was
clearly a step up in sound quality. ARC may have their own reasons but the
"better performance" doesn't hold up. Replacing resistors is an
unnecessary inconvenience compared to replacing a simple fuse.
Charles, |
Charles ...., I hear ya. Don't know what to add to what I've already said. Yes ... bias resisters may blow if a tube arcs and since I am not comfortable taking a soldiering iron to my amp, replacement is a bigger deal than it should be. My gut tells me that if -- and that's a big if -- there is a denigration in sonics, it might be worth the trade-off to insert a fuse into the signal path. Again, maybe Gary (Hifigeek) will weigh in with his reality check reactions.
Happy New Year to all. |
I found the bigger BAT solid state amps to compete very favorably with the ARC gear. Balanced Audio and VTL have an auto bias system that goes a long way toward solving the burnt resistor problem. BAT has a fuse less system now that will open before the tube blows which makes the blown tube, arc, burnt resistor scenario a thing of the past. I could not hear any audible degradation of sound when that update was performed. I feel a company that fails to address a persistent problem doesn't deserve my business. Just my opinion. |
Joman, why do you say it is a persistent problem? It is not. If it were, they would fuse it and not have the issue. Can you imagine the issues they would have with the ref610 and 750's if these were recurring problems?
This is the problem with the internet... |
Dbarger, for $40,000 those amps (ref 610- 750's) ought to have a
clapper! As we all know audio companies seldom if ever will post failure rates or repair statistics. My point is for the kind of money one pays for the
Ref 110 - 175 or for any tube amp that exceeds 4 figures,with the technology we have today what is the problem with an auto-bias? There are ways to deal with the signal degradation and burnt resistors.Look at the cost of the Prologe gear, have you seen a thread that mentions a resistor frying the pcb? Why does one have to spend $40,000 to get that kind of protection.
As for the internet, we all search these threads to make decisions concerning purchases and gear. Until we start seeing published repair rates I suppose we will continue to defend and discuss or disparage protection issues or lack thereof. Happy New Year to all. |
There is a reason for everything---almost. I am sure that ARC engineers know how to insert a fuse for protection of the circuit instead of a resistor. Would save lots of customer inquiries, returned amps in the tube warranty period and customer cost of repairs, the profit for which probably goes mostly to their authorized service people.
Many of us would prefer the ease of a fuse in the circuit, but not if it degrades the sound. Hopefully, the ARC guys find a way someday---but for now, I'll take ARC's word for it.
Gary (Hifigeek) --where r u?
|
As has been pointed out, fuse protection isn't synonymous with sound degradation (this is a faulty premise). There are excellent sounding tube amplifiers that use fuse protection and don't destroy resistors in the process. |
Until we hear back from the man with the soldiering iron, let's hold judgment.
Gpgr4blu makes some fair points. ARC engineers are not amateurs and it should be a given that they know what they are doing. In furtherance of these points, I would fall out of my chair if it turned out that the reason ARC didn't use drop in fuses or similar protective components was just to save a couple of bucks. The MSRPs of the REF 150, REF 250 and REF 750 are $13K, $26K and $55K, respectively. It would be madness to think a reputable company like ARC would look to save a couple of bucks on some cheapo parts making such expensive equipment unless the designers sincerely believed that "more would be less."
Look ... I get the crabbing. I've owned ARC tube amps for quite a few years. I don't like the PITA inconvenience of calling a service tech to my house. More than the out-of-pocket repair costs, I miss not having the use of my system. So I think I get it.
Now ..., let's flip it around and ask these simple questions: How well does ARC gear work? Putting a finer point on the question, how good does it sound? The short answer to the first question is, except for the infrequent pesky open bias resister issue, I never had any other problems. And the answer to the second question is, IMO, excellent. Of course folks have their own opinions which I respect. But those are my opinions.
So where IS that elusive man with the soldiering iron??
Hey guys, it's just a hobby. Let's enjoy our systems and be grateful that we can.
Happy New Year.
Bruce |
As has been pointed out, fuse protection isn't synonymous with sound degradation (this is a faulty premise). I guess ARC and Ken Stevens @CAT didn't get the memo. It's obvious ARC and Convergent don't want fuses in their design for whatever reason. If you don't like their approach or sound, buy something else. What's the big deal? ARC and CAT have been in business for a long time, well respected and with a large loyal customer base. So either reliability is an overblown issue or sound quality trumps everything. |
Knghifi,
You missed the point entirely it seems. ARC and CAT aren't the only ones
who have experienced and talented designers/engineers, in my example I
referenced earlier, my friend went from ARC to VAC. He strongly preferred
the VAC and I agreed with him, simply a matter of taste, I also have owned
ARC and it's a good product but IMO there's better available and I voted
with my wallet and moved on.
I have nothing at all against ARC components and they have certainly
withstood the test of time (as have VAC and other quality products).I dont
believe that ARC amps are unreliable, but their resistor replacement is in my
view a needless hassle.
My point in this interesting thread is I don't think that 'fuses degrade sound
quality across the board' is correct (some designs may and others don't,
it's implementation). My evidence is hearing very good tube
amplifiers(VAC is just one example) that IMO equal or better the ARC
sound. If you disagree that's fine and understandable, just a different point
of view.
Charles, |
Charles1dad, My only point is not all talented designers agree on the same principles. Obviously some talented designers do find fuses degrade performance.
Customers can choose whatever they want. In your example, your friend prefers VAC so he buys VAC. Some prefers ARC, they buy ARC. |
What bugs me about this thread is all the armchair quarterbacking about circuit design by non-engineers. These designs are all different. BAT does not design like ARC. Any electrical engineers with expertise on tube circuitry weighed in on these issues? I mean, are we really supposed to agree that since one person did not hear degradation with a change to BAT amps that ARC should fuse theirs?
This is all just a bit ridiculous. The only thing these designs have in common is they use tubes.
Charles1dad, we get your point. We don't agree. Saying it again won't change that. You should steer clear of ARC amps, definitely.
I am going over to the Porsche forum now and tell them they have to design their cars for better gas mileage. I will tell them that my Fusion gets better mileage and they need to do whatever Ford does.
That was an analogy, I kid! |
Reading that back, it sounds a bit harsh. Sorry.
This is supposed to be fun. |
Dbarger .... I'm not a EE, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night. ;') |
Dbarger,
Hey man , yes relax! We'll all just offering opinions which are bound to
differ. We all can agree there's more than one approach to handling a blown
tube and its outcome. This is fun and also educational from my
perspective. Obviously ARC has their reasons as do those brands that
choose an alternative method. I'm just trying to learn something here. My
ARC-VAC comparison was simply to illustrate two highly respected brands
that do it differently, that's all.
Charles |
Hey Charles, did you stay at a Holiday Inn last night?? Just checking. Happy New Year again. |
Hi Bifwynne,
Thanks and a very happy New Year to you and everyone as well.
Charles, |
Hi knghifi,
Yes, my point as well . We don't disagree. I was actually hoping a designer/builder would come along and explain the rationale for either circuit protection option for handling a blown output tube.
Charles, |
Hi,
I also replaced my Ref 3 pre with a Pass Labs XP-20 and am pleased with the results.
If you can find a SS design that sounds as good as tubes, why use tubes?
Of course, the debate will be IF!
Mike |
Mikewerner,
If I follows well you have a Pass Labs X350.5 and a XP-20, and you had also a XA60.5.
How these combos compare with REF3 + REF110 (which I also have)?
I just adquired a XA30.5 and plan to buy a XP-10, it is not the same than yours but I think could sound similar.
What are the differences between XA60.5 and X350.5 in terms of sound quality?
Thanks. |
Hi
I had a Ref 3 and Ref 110.
I got tired of replacing tubes. My equipment is on a lot.
The Pass Labs X350.5 has control. It doesn't stress or strain even with large scale orchestral works. This into 87dB speakers.
The XA60.5 was just not holding together on the big stuff when played loudly.
I frequently am not in the room with the speakers when listening.
That said, if you like to listen quietly and are a spacial junkie, some say the XA60.5's do that better, though it didn't seem much of a difference to me.
On the ARC gear, I still think as neutral as some claim it to be, there was still some colorations that I do not find present with the Pass Labs gear.
So, I am happy with the solid state gear sonically and do not have to replace tubes!
Plus, if you have never heard a BIG solid state amp, you should.
Power is not the limiting issue, and that says a lot about the sonics especially at higher volumes. |
