So I bought the Willsenton R-800i

@chmaiwald 

One thing´s for sure: I do miss the Willsenton´s sound already

That is understood. A good tech should be able to evaluate and solve the problem for you.Charles 

Make sure if your going to try your ears at finicky listening, ,ale sure all components are warmed up, and it may take you a hundred hours to get used to the new sound

after buying the “Sanders - the preamp” it took me over a month to accept the new sound, at first I was skeptical of the new sound,…

after a while, leaving on for 2 months, she really came around, bass became tighter, etc etc. 

I love getting new gear, like a 10 year old on Christmas morning.

Latest update:

One of the 805s blew and the power fuse as well. I put all stock tubes back in (just to be on the safe side) and replaced the power fuse, which was well hidden for the amateur that I am in the socket of the power cable. When I turned the amp back on the new fuse blew immerdiately.

I have no clue what may have happened inside and will call a local electrician specialized on AV equipment tomorrow. I also mailed China Hifi, let´s see what they say.

One thing´s for sure: I do miss the Willsenton´s sound already.

The 805 version of the 800 is now out of stock-no longer available at China HiFi and the wait on Amazon ticked up to 4-5 weeks. I'm not surprised. 

Charles1dad, you are correct--it's a lot of amp for the money.  Good to see you around these parts. You have a keen appreciation for our hobby and I always like hearing what you have to say. 

Yes, I know that the 805 and the 845 are completely different power output tubes. I did not know that Willsenton uses  the same amplifier model number for 2 different amplifiers. Utilizing the 300b as the driver tube is very nice. That’s a lot of amplifier for that cost.

Charles 

@charles1dad It´s available in two versions: One running 805s and one running 845s. Either amp is not compatible with the other tubes.

Zerung, glad to hear you picked one of these up and like it.  It does sound like you bought the 845 version, is that right? 

Is the Willsenton R800i an 805 or an 845 output tube based?

I have seen both descriptions. A very nice looking amplifier. The 805 in SET provides about 50 watts of pure class A power. An 845 SET usually about 25-30 watt range pure class A.

Great to read your post @chmaiwald, I recently bought the Wellsenton R800i 805 as I needed a larger wattage than the 300B I have, I also thought the tube was 805 (A have a few pairs of GE and RCA NoS 805), only after I got the amp did I realise that the output tube was not the same.

But everything else is top notch and the sound is at the desirable level. Lots of tube rolling also.

Enjoying Tube Rolling again, after 10 years of remission.... 

@chmaiwald , I highly recommend REL's T line.  Very persuasive, musical subs.  

@jbhiller I´m not using a subwoofer yet but I´m waiting for a reply from a dealer who is willing to send me two to compare (Rel T/7x and SVS PB 1000 Pro). The EQ I´m using is basically only to push the lows a bit. It also shows that the Cornwalls lack in that area (for my taste) but first and foremost it so much helps to give depth, just as you say. I´m hoping a sub will do that to an even bigger extent and that it will give the recordings I find (for lack of better words) crowded more room to breathe.

I like Albini´s productions for capturing a live feeling and directness which does not automatically translate into pure sonics as can be found on recordings considered good by audiophiles. You said muddy... Maybe I myself have to listen to it with open ears again, I´m such a fan.
Two years or so ago he recorded the newest album by SUNNO))), the drone-doom duo that basically plays guitar-generated soundwaves*. Compared to their other albums the resulting „Life Metal“ manages to leave room to breathe in the overall oppressing wall of sound. He´s done a stellar job there.

As for Nirvana: I find it hard to tell which mixes I like better, the re-mixed versions of „Heart Shaped Box“ and „All Apologies“ are just so familiar, those are the version I came to like. Albini´s are also great, the roughness and all. As far as I know it´s just these two that were fiddled with, the rest is all Albini.

correction--it may have been more than just two radio songs. I think Bob Ludwig may have remixed most of the album. 

@chmaiwald , Wow, I went back and listened to that Neurosis album. I wouldn't blame the amp for how this album sounds. The production seems intentionally nasty heavy. I don't listen to much metal or heavy punk though. Also, I'm in the minority camp on Steve Albini. I don't enjoy his production as much as others.  I always found it interesting that Nirvana held back their two radio hits on In Utero from Albini.  I think (sometimes) his engineering and production sound muddy and confused but that's just me.

I understand, I think, what you are saying about stuff sounding better when music is simpler (less going on). That's kind of a truism for all systems on some level. 

Do you use a subwoofer system?  The reason I ask is it can provide depth of soundstage and allow the highs to sounds more delineated and less harsh--just by filling out the lowest octave.  The CW IVs are not really a big bass speaker despite their size. 

@jbhiller First of all: Thank you so much for your elaborate description of the characteristics of the amp and its pairing with the Cornwalls. I´m lacking both language skills and ways to put into words in my own to properly describe what I´m hearing. What you write very much reflects my impressions. And I´m very happy to hear that the R-800i holds up well compared to other amps.

Most importantly though it´s good to hear that you are having a great time with it and that you find your money was well spent. Right now I´m away from home for almost two weeks and can confirm that this amp makes you want to come back and enjoy it. I can´t wait to listen to it again playing music I like.

Personally I find the volume jumps when using the remote totally ok, but that may be because with the Rotel I had before the jumps were even bigger. As an obect it feels a bit too clunky (metal, heavy, just three buttons), but then again I stopped counting how many times I lost the tiny remote for the Apple TV – something that never happened with this one.

I assume you have not started tube rolling yet, right? This can add yet another level of sound quality.

And another question: To me the sound becomes a bit (for lack of better words:) crowded once the music gets dense and more wild. Like when I play some rock music with crashing drums and lots of distorted guitars. Sure, it may be because of the recording, but the difference is striking. Maybe the amp is just too good at reproducing material where there is not too much going on soundwise (ambient, jazz, folk, etc.), I don´t know. Do you have the same experience? Or is that normal? If you know a rock record that also sounds nice when the action is on please let me know so I can compare. (But please no 1971 dutch first pressing or anything like that, when it comes to music buying I´m not that audiophile.)
Two examples that left me a bit underhelmed: Neurosis – „Times of Grace“ (not expecting too much hi-fi here, but usually engineer Steve Albini does a good job at capturing this kind of music) and Die Nerven – s/t.
On my Sony wh-1000xm4 headphones both sound punchy and allowing for dynamics even when the wall of guitars set in, on the stereo much less so.

Status Update -

I'm 3 weeks into owning this amplifier.  It's a problem; on the days I'm not in the office or on the road (which has only been 2 during the holiday period), I'm getting little work done because I'm constantly listening to music!

I'm going to estimate that I'm 150-175 hours into this amplifier and things should be fairly run in by now. 

Please note that I'm in a fairly good size room (23' long x 16.5' wide x 10' tall).  I use efficient speakers (Klipsch Cornwalls--modified crossovers (only upgraded).  I've had a few amazing late night vinyl sessions (Technics 1200GAE, Benz Micro LPS/Kiseki Purpleheart/Dynavector X20 or something, Manley Chinook). But, most of my listening has been using a Roon endpoint (Intel NUC) feeding a Marantz Ruby DAC/SACD player voiced by Ken Ishiwata.  

The amp reveals details that I haven't had in my room with other tube amps.  Even my Elekit 300B (with Lundhaul transformers and VCaps) doesn't do what this guy can do.  

One of the particular characteristics of the sound with this pairing is the size of the sound image.  It is downright massive.  I've never complained I needed more holography or a bigger picture. Sure, who wouldn't want more?  With the Willsenton 800/805 the height of the sound seems to reach up towards the ceiling.  With certain production, the sound can start to wrap around me a bit from the side walls. It's quite something to experience.  

The low end is so nicely defined and plump that I can easily tune my two REL subs right into where the Cornwalls start to drop off (probably upper 30hz if I had to guess).  As a hobbyist musician, I have developed a decent ear figuring out songs and tones. This amp allows me to walk right up to the RELs and dial in the crossover and volume so easily and the resulting sound sounds seamless to me. Seamless.  So I should qualify, if you believe the above is possible and can sound great (the subs do NOT sound like separate instruments), my opinions of the amp are probably bolstered in the favorable direction because I've never been able to tweak the subs this well and I'm confident they were dialed in pretty nicely before. 

The midrange clarity can make my head turn like my dog's when she hears something unexpected.  It's caused me to listen more and more and more again.

I honestly could not be happier with this amplifier.  I'd pay twice the price for it. It's taken a bit of the Cornwall's watercolor-level of detail and tightened it up --yet not to a level that sounds like boring hifi.  It still sounds like live or the real thing...just more so. 

The power of the amp is a really sweet match for my room and setup.  I've never been happiest with low power SET amps and these speakers because even though I don't usually listen all that loud, I have had trouble getting an 8 watt 300B amp to make them open up.  I had a Primaluna Dialogue HP integrated that sounded best with KT150s and these speakers but it never romanced me (great amp though).  A Carver Crimoson 275 did a better job of adding some harmonic magic.  I adore a Ken Ishiwata voiced Marantz Ruby (shocked me as it is Marantz's own Class D topology), which sounds lovely and brawny with the CW IVs.  

But alas, the Willsenton R800 has been the ticket for me.  I don't know if I could otherwise afford to get to this place without it. Would I be looking a Shindo, Jadis, Triode Labs?  Soooo pricey--maybe someday.  

I really thought that I'd be itching to upgrade the power supply filtering film caps and the coupling caps.  I doubt the Willsenton re-badged caps are junk and I'd bet they are something fairly decent. Whomever voiced this amp did a wonderful job. 

I cannot recommend trying this amp out enough for yourself.  I wish I had more speakers around right now to play with so I could report differences.  I only have a pile of electronics right now in what my wife calls "the museum."   Nonetheless, I'm content to just keep listening. 

I want to shake the hand of the engineers and people who made this amp.  

I have just one nit to pick-- the remote, while I love it's feel and simplicity, makes too big of jumps in volume attenuation or increase with the motorized pot. Oh well. 

If anyone is in the Chicagoland area and doesn't have Craigslist-Killer sensibilities, you're welcome to PM me to swing by for a listen.  

For now, I'm still running this guy in and enjoying every minute.  This is a special amp indeed

That is very encouraging and high praise for such an accessible 300b SET.

Charles 

Interesting!

I'm still getting familiar with the amp. I've been listening to gear for decades so I'm pretty humble--I know that I need to really know the gear before I can truly say what's going on with real confidence. 

I think the tubes they ship this thing with are very, very good.  The Russian 6sn7 are pretty great.  They have big, deep and well defined bass.  

The cost of 300Bs and 805s is making me think it might be better to upgrade the capacitors in key locations. That said, you cannot tell what make they are due to the wrapping Willsenton puts on them.  Many manufacturers do this.  And, it's not always a sign they totally cheaped out.  I'm thinking that dumping $200-$500 on the two caps linked to the gain stage/6sn7s will make the most difference. That's a reasonable figure compared to upgrading the driver 300bs.  

For now, I'm still running this guy in and enjoying every minute.  This is a special amp indeed. 

I have an audiophile buddy coming over tomorrow to let him have at it.  I respect his opinion.  My ears are telling me this is a near reference level amp. 

Even with reduced labor costs, I don't know how Willsenton's margins can be that high given the parts quality. 

Thanks for pointing that out. For whatever reason on the website you link to I´m onlyn shown three Linlai 805s, while it even says there are 4 results. Strange.

Here I found the 805 I think you are talking about:
https://btb-elektronik.de/en/product/5434/linlai-805a-direct-heated-tube-factory-matched-pair-805-a--x2/
And indeed it looks a lot like the one my amp came with – golden socket, as far as I can tell no metal thing on top with a star shaped hole. Maybe that´s it and not the PSVane I thought it was.

FYI Chmaiwald, Linlai sells an intro 805 for $165 a matched pair (see that link above). 

@jbhiller I´m not at home at the moment, so I can´t say with a 110% certainty, but I´m pretty sure they´re not Linlai. I haven´t noticed the star shaped thing at the top and as far as I remember the socket is golden – just like the PSVane Hifi.

I´d also be surprised if they put in a 450$ pair instead of a 140$ pair. Retail prices of course, but still. Maybe they couldn´t get hold of the PSVane and to fulfill the order took Linlai for yours? If so, congratulations!

Chmaiwald,  I'm wondering if the stock 805s in the Willsenton R800i 805 are actually Linlai tubes. The reason I think that is some Linlai tubes, and their 805s, have a star shape at the top of the tube structure.  

Take a look at the photos here of Linlai 805 offerings and there's a star at the top: 

https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/product-category/shop_by_tube_model/805/

Do yours look this way? 

@jbhiller  Yes, I think you are saving money not buying the Cossors. And the PSVane Acme really shine but they do cost a lot. Luckily we won a court case this year about a faulty installation. It dragged on for years but in the end the decision was in our favour and the other side paid in time. Otherwise I would´ve had to save much longer for these and the even more expensive 300Bs. My limited experience now is in line with what I read elsewhere: The expensive ones do stand out. So far I have not read about a cheaper secret contender. That´s different from the 6SN7 and 12AX7 positions, where even I could name some that can make you very happy for cheap compared to the expensive holy grails of (usually) NOS tubes.

Thank you for passing on the info on biasing. That´s really helpful and I will try it out as soon as possible. I never bothered to try other values since I thought that 120ma is the only one I should aim for. Improving tube life and (possibly) the sound at the same time – irresistable.

@chmaiwald , GREAT write up. Thank you very much.  I know everything is system dependent and subjective but I'm going to pause on buying Cossair 300Bs based on what you say--may not be worth it.  

Also, fyi, I run two subs with CW IVs. You are correct in that CWIVs are not bass monsters despite their size.  I love the sound of two subs tailored into the lower octave only.  

Finally, I heard back from China Hifi today.  They said that 120ma is the maximum you should bias the amp. They have no recommendations on what's ideal. They said that 100 ma (where mine maxes out with full bias) is fine and you can go lower.  

As such, 120 ma is the limit.  Your mileage may vary, but you may want to turn your bias down from 120 to (a) see how it sounds) and (b) avoid running the power tubes so hot to save life.  

My Carver Crimson has a recommended top end bias of about 100 ma, but Bob Carver says he likes the sound best at around 80ma.  Interesting. 

At any rate, the manual uses ambiguous language and I have now confirmed that 120ma is not the recommended bias setting but the maximum bias setting a user should use. 

Finally I found the time to do some tube rolling. It really started bugging me when I wrote recently that I didn´t properly compare the new ones I´m using with the stock tubes for example.

To cut a long story short: The tube combination I was running before still sounds best to my ears. Still some things I heard surprised me.

I listened to five tracks:
Bob Marley & The Wailers – „Natural Mystic“
Lee Morgan – „The Sidewinder“
Bastarda & Sutari – „Tam nad puszczaj“
Zbigniew Wodecki with Mitch & Mitch – „Wieczór już“
Phoenix – „Tonight“ (feat. Ezra Koenig)
I left out rock music because I wasn´t in the mood today. Also Guided by Voices, which I was tempted to include just to see how well a decidedly badly recorded piece of music is handled.

The source was my old Rotel RCD02 CD-player, I took the EQ out of the chain. Speakers as always Cornwall IVs.

805

Cossor – instruments more seperated than with others, sound a bit sharper (quicker transients it seems)
stock Willsenton (I think PSVane Hifi) – fuller sound, more bass boom (low end), overall nicer than Cossor
PSVane Acme – lush, general pleasant, round bass, coherent, voices glow

300B

stock Willsenton (I think PSVane Hifi) – slightly boomy and muddy compared to Elrog
Elrog – more presence and glow, overall just nicer

6SN7

PSVane CV–181 T2 – very good, but sounds maybe a bit too thick, less laid back, nice highs and lows
GE GTA (NOS) – deep low end, overall really good, not 100% clear, good presence in lower highs
6H8S (NOS) – relaxed, defined, maybe a bit generous with highs, beautiful but not very 3D
stock Willsenton (6H8S NOS) – coherent, lots of low end, very similar to other 6H8S
Sylvania GTB – relaxed but forward, sweet, I´m sticking with this for now, but GE and the 6H8S come close

Next up will be another round with the 12AX7/ECC83s, maybe the rectifier too, but I´m done for today.

Further observations:
– Replacing any tube makes a difference (rectifier the least). The overall sound did not change dramatically when changing the 805s and 300B, but enough to go from really good to great.
– Only the combination of the PSVane Acme 805s and Elrog 300Bs made the overall sound just sweet and glowing.
– I was surprised to find the Cossor least appealing of the three pairs I own. Surprised because I paid about $200 for them and they turned out to be less pleasant than the stock ones.
– No surprise concerning the 300Bs though. It would be really interesting to compare them with Western Electric and Takatsuki. Feel free to get in touch with me if you have a spare pair.
– The stock 6SN7s are also really convincing, better to my ears than the GE GTAs and the also pricey CV-191 T2 from PSVane. My first choice remain the Sylvania GTBs though, they do their job better overall. But just a bit so if they start failing at some point I won´t be desperate.
– I guess it´s because the Cornwall IVs lack a bit on the low end while overemphasizing the highs for my taste, but the sound is most pleasing when I put the EQ back in the chain and push the lows just a tiny bit. The other bands stay untouched, except for when I sometimes bring even the highs up a tiny bit. I know it sounds like a contradiction to what I wrote about before, but both help to make the sound fullest along the whole spectrum. The stage widens as well, it´s always a surprising effect, when I turn the EQ off and back on again.
– I still have to try other 6SN7 NOSs, if only they weren´t all so expensive.

Hey @chmaiwald , I've been there!  I had a Primaluna that could take a host of power tubes. I rolled, and rolled, and.... I got so lost but in the end I did figure out the takeaways. 

One thing that I learned was to listen to each tube swap and give them a fair chance.  It's easy to like something because it cost more or is highly reviewed. But everything is system, room, and listener dependent. I have a lot of 6 Cifte 12au7s (French military) that were very pricey--~$120 a tube.  They are amazing, yet in my system at that time I didn't need more air on top and things got to be too much.  Great tube to waken an overly warm or too thick tube system. 

I learned this again with my Manley Chinook phono stage.  There's nothing wrong (and soooo much right) with Electro Harmonix 6922s, which Manley uses in the stock units. For several years I neglected those tubes and created a stock pile of NOS stuff.  When I went back to the EHs a couple years later, I realized why Manley selected them--very quiet, full spectrum equality, and so on.

As to the Willsenton, my early opinion is the 300Bs are of great quality. They are drivers too so they aren't going to be as noticeable to most of us.  The 805s--I'm not sure on these. The Russian version of 6sn7 are good but pretty bright and highlight the midrange focus of the amp. In my system, they are a touch too much.  

So, the only current "roll" I have going on is Philco- Sylvania 6SN7GTBs.  They sound great!

I must admit that I still have to find the time to put the stock tubes back in. I started rolling more or less right away when I got the amp so I can´t say for sure if the Cossor is better than the factory 805 (now I´m using PSVane Acme 805s). It´s really on my list to check again how the stock tubes and some others I used for a while hold up against the combination I´m using at the moment. It´s been giving me great pleasure for months now so anything that may be a step back takes time I prefer to spend otherwise. I´ll get to that at some point.

But here´s two things I did do recently:

Before I realized that the stock tubes are 6H8C too I bought two pairs of the same for cheap online and put them in. One was really good and I during the past couple of weeks I double checked: It´s difficult (for me) to tell them apart from the Sylvania GTBs I also own. Both very sweet. The other russian pair seemed bland in comparison. But that´s what I heard about old russian NOS: Sometimes the quality is really good, sometimes not so much. For $10-15 a pair it´s definitely woth taking a shot. Now I have to put the stock tubes back in to see how they hold up.

Only today I received a JJ EC803S which I´ve been listening to for a while now. I´m curious because I heard praise for the ECC803S and that JJ is using the old Telefunken production machines. Sure it´s not broken in properly yet, but it sounds very nice already, less linear or analytical than the Telefunken it replaced. Let´s see how it will perform in the long run.

As you can tell, I´ve been tube rolling rather impulsively. I should sit down and take notes like I did in the beginning when I tried the first few 6SN7s and 12AX7/ECC83s. Now that the 300Bs and 805s are properly broken in it´s high time to roll back and compare. I can be more helpful for the discussion then.

@chmaiwald , Do you think the Cossor 805 is better than the factory 805 ?

I just rolled in a pair of Philco- Sylvania 6SN7GTBs and noticed that Willsenton put silkscreening of its name on the stock tubes. On closer inspection they are 6H8C Russian tubes--pretty similar to what Schitt was shipping with its Freya preamp.  Good tube!  

Quite frankly, it sounds great biased at just over 100ma
 

It will be interesting to see what they say. The good news is that the amplifier is sounding great! I’ll take that result every time.😊

Charles

I didn't swap the 805s or 6SN7s yet.  I threw the 300Bs in just to see.  Quite frankly, it sounds great biased at just over 100ma.  I'll reach out to China Hifi next week. 

That is strange indeed. I hope it’s not the amp. Did you swap the other tubes?

Today I exchanged the beautiful Svetlana 5U4G for a RCA. Whenever I started the amp recently there was a little blue flash in the Svetlana. Maybe that’s ok but I took the opportunity to swap. Do I hear a difference? I liked the coke bottle look better than this puny tube now, so the Svetlana felt better. That’s all I can say.

I swapped the 300Bs for a broken in pair of Electro Harmonix 300Bs.  I can still only get the 300Bs to bias to about 105ma. Hmmmm...

@djspinner, you're welcome to pop by if you are in the Chicago area!  

@jbhiller 

Thanks for your thoughtful comments, I appreciate them.

Charles

@chmaiwald , thank you!!  I should note (for whatever it might be worth) that I "upgraded" the crossover networks in the Cornwall IVs, damped the horn mid and horn tweeter, and installed proper binding posts.  Some may hear a difference some may not.  I used high quality Cardas solder, VCap ODOM caps throughout, Path Audio resistors, and some decent binding posts from Partsconnexion.  I did not change any values/tolerances with the swapped parts. 

Also chmaiwald, I think you are spot on about the bias setting. Strangely, biasing it at ~90ma, as opposed to 120ma, did not result in things sounding sluggish, slow, or out of place.  

@charles1dad,  you are wise.  I have always enjoyed your feedback and guidance.  There are folks on here that seem to want to litigate everything--you seem to be the opposite and are always helping and sharing knowledge! Thank you!

@djspinner , you are correct! I hate to admit it. I'm guilty of making too many lateral moves.  Maybe I just sell all these amps and buy a Jadis or Japanese tube amp!  But my goal is not to have a big collection but rather find different pieces to allow different "sonic meals" if you will.  No piece of gear is really ever perfect so I like to experiment and have different presentations. 

Last night's listening session went way too late! 2:30 am.  

@jbhiller 

Congrats on your new amp, wish I was still in the area to hear it in action.

Given your amp history - Carver Crimson, Marantz Ruby - I would have thought the HiFi Rose would be the next logical step?😀

@jbhiller 

At some point, I'll be curious about your views on coupling caps and tube rolling.  I have trouble leaving mediocre caps in place that link to the speaker outputs, BUT I need to patient and get a feel for this guy.  

Getting familiar with the sound and character of the new amplifier and exercising patience, agree. Once you have established a good feel for your amplifier then you can decide what it is you want to sonically modify or tune via capacitors and tubes.

At this initial stage you already like what you are hearing. And based on your description this is a solid and well-built amplifier, with a good foundation for future upgrades. You’ll be able to transition from good sound to very good/excellent sound  with wise capacitor and tube changes. You’re in a good place.😊

Charles 

@jbhiller Good to hear that the amp arrived and is leaving a good first impression. As I said before, I have nothing much to compare it with and it´s good to hear already that the sound it produces is nice right from the start. Also: You also own Cornwall IVs, so that´s even better for me when you talk about all the sound details.

Some of the tubes it comes with are really good. I have to roll back so to speak to really compare, I started exchanging very early. But from what I hear the JJ in the 12AX7 slot is really good, and from my own experience I can say that russian produced NOS 6SN7s can produce sound equally pleasing to the Sylvania GTBs I also own. But the quality varies and I hope yours came with a good pair. Both pairs of 300B and 805 should PSVane Hifi, so not bad either.

The sloppily translated manual says: „805 adjust bias data refers to: 120mA“, I took it as a recommendation to have the 805s running at 120mA. It´s not been a problem to turn the screw to get them there. Apart from that there are also no other problems or signs that tell me I shouldn´t.

ps: Only yesterday I learned (= read online)  that JJ is using the old machinery used for producing Telefunken ECC83s. So that´s a good sign.

@chmaiwald , Where are you biasing those big kid 805s?  The manual is vague with nebulous statements about biasing.  I'm no stranger to hifi gear coming from China so this is not my first go around with translating Mandarin (likely) to English. 

Do you you have your 805s running at 120 ma?  It scares me to crank them that high. Currently, I'm at 90 and the sound is big and fat with enough definition to sound live. Granted my speakers resolve well to sound like live music but not state of the art. 

Always good to see you chiming in Charles1dad!  

At some point, I'll be curious about your views on coupling caps and tube rolling.  I have trouble leaving mediocre caps in place that link to the speaker outputs, BUT I need to patient and get a feel for this guy.  

@jbhiller 

It is good to read that your very early listening experience is quite positive. That’s a very encouraging sign. This amplifier hasn’t even begun to burn-in yet. The sound will only further improve from this juncture. Keep us posted.

Charles

PS--I want to be extra fair to my Primaluna;  while I found other amps paired better with the Cornwall IVs, I adored the Primaluna with modern speakers--in particular PSB Imagine T3s and T2s. 

The R800i 805 arrived today.  What a big amp!  Here are just a few initial thoughts. 

Moving this amp in the box is a two person affair.  It is a beast

Moving It.  My friend had to bolt so I had to move it out of the box and onto a 36" tall space where it would sit all by myself.  I was able to lift it solo, but I wouldn't want to move it across the room by myself.  Something to note and think about. 

Build Quality.  The first thing I noticed was the build quality.  I used to own a top of the line Primaluna Dialogue HP integrated. If anyone is questioning whether the unit looks hokey or cheap in person, throw that aside.  Same thing if we question whether it feels solid--it feels amazing.  Everything about the build quality look, touch, sensory is as good or better than the Primaluna. (My personal opinion is I like its look better and it feels better).  Note: I haven't opened it up yet and won't for a bit so I cannot comment on what's inside. 

The VU meters remind me a bit of Cary tube products--a lovely darker blue. The power, volume and control source switches are beefy and have a nice tactile feel  feel when you move them.  

Sound Quality.  I have only had it running under an hour.  The first 30 minutes or so it sounded good but strained a touch in the midrange.  Oddly, I thought the midrange is where this guy shines though.  After it warmed up for about a half hour, it came into a nice stride.   I'm only playing CDs right now during break in. I'll retook up my Roon NUC streaming situation for high res digital later. I'll also hook up my Manley Chinook phono stage and Technics 1200 GAE turntable with Benz Micro LPS cartridge later too. 

My first thoughts on sound is clarity, presence, and space.  It does a great job of making a holographic picture, which keeps enlarging as I warm it up/break it in.  As I type this, my head pops up to hear some great holographic soundstage, warmth, and (again) clarity.  The midrange is very seductive to say the least. 

Another initial thought I'm having, after it got a good 45 minutes under its belt, is that the instruments have that "more instrumenty" sound I get with the 300B. Yet the 300B runs out of gas sooooo quickly. 

Operation.  I'm a bit confused about the biasing of the big 805 power tubes.  The manual says the following: 

"How to adjust the bias of 805A and 845? 

805 adjust bias data refers to: 120ma"

Yet the 805s came biased at about 105.  I bumped them up (with no source and volume at 0) to 110 and it started to feel that the bias adjustment screw was running out of room. 

I "think" the manual may be saying to keep the 805s biased <120ma.  At any rate, I turned the bias down to 90ma even and the midrange smoothed out and bass came on with more tuneful authority.  I guess I will leave it at 90ma for now.  

I'm very intrigued by what I'm hearing.  I've owned tube amps before and have built a few.  I hated to sell the Primaluna but it just didn't match with my Cornwall IVs as well as other amps (Elekit 300B, Carver Crimson 275, Marantz KI Ruby). I know some love that pairing, but it always felt a bit bloated and the holography was not there.  This amp has that in spades. Out of the box it's better (in this system to me) than the more expensive Primaluna.  I recall that I reluctantly sold the PL because it just didn't win my private shootouts either on a short or long term basis.  Loved that amp and the company though. 

So, like all of us I can be a victim of confirmation bias or warming up to a new sound signature. That said, I try to be very honest with myself and trust my ears. This amp sounds like it's going to be winner.  It also looks super cool in my space. 

I may not leave the house for a couple of weeks!  

I ordered it direct from China Hi-Fi. You can select your voltage there. I’ve some decent experiences in the past with them. I’ve also ordered from Doge Audio--super fast shipping to our mainland in a crate via DHL.

@jbhiller 

Did you order it from Amazon or China Hi-Fi?  Seems really fast.))

Thanks Charles. 

@grannyring 

My knowledge of it is limited to what’s on their website.It uses different driver and rectifier tubes from the Frankensteins mono blocks and share a power transformer. My gut feeling tells me it is very good however. Israel Blume won’t present a new product unless he believes that it is worthy.

Charles 

The Willsenton amp seems to also offer great value. The bones of the amp look to be good especially for the price.

@charles1dad 

Have you heard anything about the new Coincident Frankenstein 300b stereo amp for $2500? Seems like a nice value….