Snake oil of the year?

Do you know what's in it?

@akg_ca

With respect. I went back and clicked on the links you provided. You selected (cherry picked) only one side supporting your beliefs that audiophile switches are hokum. Have you ever tried one? If so what? The repose below seems very even and way above my pay grade too.

Is there conformation bias when one gets their latest doodad? Sure.. However, there are far more positive comments from actual switch users than not. I'm not dousing my system with Flagyl to combat parasitic capacitance but I'm using an audiophile switch. Doctor's orders.

"almarg

9,670 posts

10-29-2019 at 06:14am

As someone having extensive experience in digital (and analog) design, although not for audio, it is very conceivable to me that a network switch can make a difference sonically. Not because it affects the accuracy with which 1s and 0s are received; not because it affects the timing with which those bits are received; and probably not because of most of the reasons that are likely to be offered in the marketing literature of makers of audiophile-oriented switches.

The likely reason relates to differences in waveform characteristics such as signal risetimes and falltimes (i.e., the amount of time it takes for the signal to transition from its lower voltage state to its higher voltage state and vice versa); differences in noise that may be riding on the signal; and differences in distortion of the waveform that may be present. In other words, things that affect the spectral composition of the waveform.

Those differences in waveform characteristics in turn may, IMO, affect the degree to which some of the RF energy present in the signal may bypass, i.e., may find its way around, the ethernet interface circuitry in the receiving component and affect circuitry that is further downstream. Perhaps affecting timing jitter at the point of D/A conversion, and perhaps affecting analog circuitry further downstream via effects such as intermodulation or AM demodulation.

One thing that became abundantly clear to me in my experience as an electrical engineer is that signals and noise don’t necessarily just affect or entirely follow only their intended pathway. And the waveform and noise characteristics of the signal that enters a circuit can affect the degree to which RF energy present in that signal may find its way via unintended pathways to unintended circuit points "downstream" of the intended circuit. "Unintended pathways" may include things like grounds within the receiving device, parasitic capacitances, power supply circuitry, or even radiation through the air within the component.

For example, in the following thread ...

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/bricasti-m1-dac-vs-ps-audio-direct-stream-dac?page=9

... two members reported that inserting an inexpensive Netgear switch between their router and the ethernet interface in their audio system resulted in significant sonic improvement. One of those members, whose system is of exceptionally high calibre, was extremely skeptical initially, but ended up saying "I can’t believe it."

None of this is to say, though, that a given switch will provide benefits that are consistent from system to system, or that there will necessarily be much if any correlation between the cost of a switch and the benefits it may provide.

Regards,
-- Al"

@wsrrsw

yep … tried one in my $50k system.

my take : bupkus….nada…. zippo…. = SFA difference in my digital audio performance compared to the simple quality build “vanilla” unit recommended and supplied by my pro IT tech. Pass on it.

NOW OPTION 2: …in stark contrast to the esoteric network switch swap-in / swap-out step above with its marketing techno+bafflegab hyperbole that makes non-IT tech types eyes glaze over…, ….yes … NOW there is a distinct audio digital audio performance improvement with a simple step up in the digital build quality in the new upgraded streamer and DAC ( e.g. my BRYSTON stablemates with discrete linear power supplies etc) …..

yep …. It’s all there now … no quarrel.

I read a lot of reviews and posts in the major audio forums, but I don’t necessarily blindly support their stated opinions , pro and con. I’ll still use my ears in MY system ( emphasis added ) as the ultimate litmus test . Others may have different experiences, no worries …. ,carry on!

it’s the overly aggressive types that cling to a notion of “IT  HAS to be the best” option that I tune out. There is no “best” in this hobby.

There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each differently.”

― Robert Evans

@akg_ca

What one did you try? What’s in your system please?

My takeaway is a lot of this stuff is system/room dependent.

I have no beef with those who can afford the best(what ever that is). If I was in that realm I’d have to get divorced to afford it and because of the divorce I’d be unable to affrod much at all. My darTZeels would be real gold too.

I suspect many on this forum are looking for the best they can afford and clearly a lot of knowledge here gets systems that sound better from the shared knowledge.

@wsrrsw

You asked what switch I tried: English Electric 8 Switch .

In my direct experience(s) I don’t support

- any supposition that any network Ethernet switch(es) is/(are) room dependent,

- or otherwise dependent on any other non-digital / analog portion of one’s audio system.

Rather, it is directly the quality build of the digital streamer + DAC portions alone and not lofty priced Ethernet network switches for MY improved audio performance experience.

FWIW This is my system:

REGA OSIRIS integrated amp

REGA ISIS VALVE cdp/ DAC

BRYSTON BDP1-USB digital streamer/ server /

BRYSTON BDA2 DAC

HARBETH 30.2XD standmount speakers on TonTraeger speaker stands

PHILIPS 630 ( USA) tuner ( fully rebuilt and upgraded 2021)

bespoke custom high-end black walnut audio rack

All CARDAS CLEAR interconnects array

CARDAS CLEAR REFLECTION speaker cables

CARDAS CLEAR / CLEAR REFLECTION / GOLDEN REFERENCE power cables

i also have digital streaming capabilities in my “B” system ( ~ $5K with all ARCAM electronics / TRIANGLE bookshelf speakers / CHORD cables) . The network switch digital (non?)-experience was the same for me. Go figger.

Again, others may have different experiences…. Some drive Fords, some drive Chevys …carry on… no worries. Trust your ears- yay or nay …. Fine … But it’s entrenched beliefs on the manufacturers specs or mag reviews that includes marketing hyperbole influencing one’s purchase decisions that leaves me cold and unconvinced.

Nice setup. 

Tough to judge by the picture of your system, but you might be several thousand dollars away from the ehternet switch being the weak link in the chain. 

And for free, you could improve your sound by experimenting with speaker placement in your room.  They are awfully close together and maybe above ear height.

LOL @dougthebiker, that was my setup on day #1 of my Audiophile journey, with much more space now and equipment upgrades, music is more enjoyable now.

Amir on youtube ( i think that's his name) is such a buzz kill just about everything. I hear what I hear and because Amir can pick up different cause and effect on his meters is not not the last and final word. For instance I know that cables matter, there might be a lot of over priced cables, they still can make a BIG difference.

Love the comments: 

Candid interview with Amir from Audiosciencereview | HiFiVision.com

I'm in the engineers camp, 25 years in IT; there is nothing a fancy switch can do to change the packet to make it sound better than an inexpensive switch, as mentioned earlier in this thread. Anyone who uses Qobuz or Tidal, even Pandora, your data has traveled millions of miles and arrives intact and beautiful over plain old enterprise-class switches and routers. If the data was corrupted in the transmission, your receiving device will tell the sender so and ask for it again. Almost everything arrives for the first time in this age, hence the speed we now enjoy—streaming movies and music. I have a Kaleidescape server in my network closet that streams the most spectacular sound and video over the network. I run a Basic Dell Switch. Also, converting Ethernet to fiber and back to ethernet is pointless unless you have long runs, over 300’. In ethernet cables, the standards are based on the number of twists per inch and the RJ45 ends used; your CAT5, 6, 7, and 8 are all IEEE standards. If you have a bunch of old cheap patch cords, it can’t hurt to replace them with higher-spec cables, but it won’t change your arriving data. If your house has built-in Data ports (hard wired), depending on age, you might be saddled with CAT5 or (CAT3 10mps) wiring, which is designed for 100mbps, it doesn’t mean it can’t do faster, but you will start to get data drops and eventually fallback to 100mbps or 10mbps, and yet the audiophile signal arrives just the same.

In  the Original Poster's defence - he had a point, the website is now down.  OFTEN, that means those who made it were just out to make what they could from a bad idea, then vanish with the bucks!

I've not heard or seen the thing, but the website being down could make his point - if it reappears you can all laugh at me instead!

Yours respectfully

Chris.

The Fidelizer Etherstream network switch, which I have, definitely improves TV resolution-Its easy to see the difference .So it does "something" As far as audio is concerned I doubt if I could tell the difference.

I have the etherstream2. It is fantastic for audio. I would never go back to streaming Qobuz without it.

https://www.myhifishop.de/Devices/AQ-SWITCH-SE-Audiophile-High-End-Network-Switch-audio-LAN-isolat::87.html?language=en