I'm considering some isolation for my transport and DAC. Which of the Sistrum or Neuance do you recommend? Or what else? I'm certainly open to suggestions. Thanks.
Larry, thanks for trying out the Sistrum products. I'm glad that you found them very satisfying on your system. You've shown an open mind, and it benefitted your system.
It seems that the only people who recognize what the Sistrum products can do, are the people who use them. Funny thing about that, huh?
Any pioneering technology always meets resistance from the entrenched "status quo". We have definitely seen that.
However, the cream will always rise to the top.
Naysayers notwithstanding, Sistrum proves itself in listening tests again, and again.
Well, just for the sake of prospective, someone just listed a pair of Sistrum stands for sale on the 'Gon. Guess they must not be everybody's cup-a-tea, but personally I think the guy is probably just deaf. :-)
Larry thanks for the invite, the listen, the great company and the coffee, I am still wired. As you said the Halcro gear has no flavor of its own, quite remarkable electronics. The Sound Labs are purity defined, so much inner detail, resolution and dynamic coherence. I have never used Sistrum with true state of the art electronics such as yours. I am up for the learning experience and the audio adventure. Sp101's under your Sound Labs..Sp1's under each of the Halcro's. Can it get any better? I think so..Lets try.. I am a Starsound dealer..Tom
Star Sound Technologies, LLC has now posted Part One of three documents that will provide you a greater understanding to vibration, the positive and negative effects created from vibration and how our technology provides newfound methodologies in dealing with the topics of resonance control.
First we must understand the primary problem that is created from vibration and that is termed Coulomb friction (a self induced detriment).
Vibration forms what is known as Coulomb friction. Coulomb friction is a property that creates detrimental inefficiencies across all signal pathways (being that of the whole).
Vibration also creates many positive qualities related to sound such as dynamics and multiple layers of harmonics. The question is how does one dissipate Coulomb friction without altering the extremely sensitive yet very critical phase relationship that affects the dynamics and harmonic structure of the instrument (component or loudspeaker) residing on a vibrating plane?
Technical documentation can become somewhat difficult to easily follow without a mathematical or engineering background. The middle portion of this paper can become somewhat confusing as we deal with the specifics of Coulomb friction; however we have tried our best to maintain a general high-level understanding for all to benefit from the entire content and proof. Please follow through its entirety at
http://www.starsound.biz/coulomb.html .
We will be happy to answer all of your questions as we invite your calls at 1-877-668-4332 (toll free).
Well, I have tried the Sistrum products, admittedley only the Audiopoints of which I have sets of three under my CDP, amp and speakers and there is no doubt in my mind that they have made a significant improvement to my somewhat modest system. I'd love to try the platforms, but living in New Zealand as I do the cost of importing these products is quite prohibitive. I must add that I find the amount of flak directed at Robert Maicks and his staff to be down right rude and completely unnecessary. In my dealings with Star Sound I have found Robert to be nothing short of helpful and courteous. To all those doubting Thomas's out there I say don't knock it until you have tried it.
Bevan great to know that Audiopoints are well heard of half way around the world..Wish we could beam you over a complete Sistrum package duty free..I haven't been a doubting Thomas for many years now..Tom..I am a Starsound dealer.
Just out of interest Bevan, what other cones, spikes, rollerblocks, platforms did you try the Audiopoints against in coming to your conclusion? Or are you saying they are an improvement over nothing. Being in NZ too I am interested in where you might have got hold of them to try. I have tried Audiopoints and some other Sistrum stuff, as well as many similar things, but it tends to be an expensive hobby when you have to buy and sell as well as meet freight costs to/from the rest of the world whenever you want to try things.
Dekay, why not add something? What does zzzzz mean? I guess it implies sleeping, or that his finger is stuck. Maybe someone hear can give him some help. Would someone give Dekay the finger?
'Goners, don't you love this type of lame response from some of these people? Before I actually LISTENED TO THE PRODUCT,I DIDN'T BELIEVE, I YELLED KICKED SCREAMED, AND CALLED THE SISTRUM GEAR WRONG, ADAMENTLY CLAIMING MY OWN PRODUCT WAS BETTER WITHOUT ANY, ANY PROOF! Guilty and dumb of me, and I admit it freely. But then, I did exactly what scientific thinkers SHOULD do, I tried something NEW. I then swallowed my pride and told the entire TRUTH of my experience, with no gain, only an expenditure. Why do people (including me) with little or no experience with a specific product think they have the right to dispute REAL VERIFIBLE experiences? Also, there was a witness there, a guy who happens to be a very good listener. HE owns Gryphon's $10K preamp, a highly modified Ayre, and some Von Schweikert VR-4's that I got for him. Good enough equipment, yes? He saw and heard this whole thing happen, and will buy as soon as he can. This folks, to me is what makes audio fun, and real. TRY SOMETHING NEW, even if you don't understand the actual reasons. There are many, many things in life that I can enjoy or appreciate, without fully understanding. Stradiverius (sp?) violins SOUND better, why?? Theories abound with no difinitive answer that has been proven. Good luck to a valuable company. As soon as I can I am auditioning the other pieces for the REST of my System. Best,
A few weeks ago, I spoke to Robert over at Starsound and he expressed his excitement about the audio shows they will be participating in September and October. I plum forgot the names of the shows, but I'm sure as the time nears, we will hear more about them. This will be a wonderful opportunity for those that are geographically situated to hear their electronics, Sistrum line, and their Harmonic Precision Caravelles. I cannot wait to hear the press and excitement, especially about their new monitor the Caravelle, that will be generated by the show. Little by slowly (you being one) Starsound is making believers out of, even those, like yourself, who were hard sells. I'm not a dealer or shill ( some 'goners have beaten me up with that BS rap) , just a content, somewhat overexhuberant, at times, audiophool, trying to spread the wealth. Can't t wait to the Fall. All apologies will be accepted..... peace, warren
Starsound will be speaking at the Chicago Audio Society meeting on Sept. 26,2004, and will be displaying a room full of our gear at the Rocky Mountain Audio Festival in Denver during October 8 thru October 10, 2004.
The Harmonic Precision Caravelles will be there(at Rocky Mtn. Festival), and also the new Harmonic Precision preamp, and monoblock amps. Of course, Sistrum, Audiopoints, and Sonoran A/V Wire Designs cables will be in use throughout.
You can meet us all there, and hear what the fuss is all about. That's where the talk stops, and "the rubber hits the road". Ha! A pun! :^).
Certainly, we understand that some have difficulty understanding our technology, but very few have any difficulty hearing the excellent results. Perhaps that is the only way for some to fully understand the validity of our product's performance. And, if any buyer does not see/hear the value of our products, we ALWAYS are willing to give a full refund upon return of the equipment within 30 days of purchase. We put ourselves "on trial" with every purchaser. Items are very rarely returned. This speaks volumes in itself.
Looking forward to meeting some of you at the show.
A few years ago, a post like twl's would have brought anger from the majority of audiogoners. No more. It's time to recognize that Audiogon has simply become an open advertising and marketing platform.
Sad but those are the times. Time for audiophiles to go and leave the site to the dealers - they can talk to each other.
Actually, Flex, I think it is sort of amusing that the Sistrum folks are continuing to use this thread to advance their product. Anyone making fresh product inquiries will stumble upon it and have plenty of advance notice of the contrversies involed. It now reminds me of a scene in a car full of teenager's in a barn, in a Fellini film about growing up in America. That car was sure rocking about! Maybe those Systrum stands could have helped drain those vibrations. :-) But, in the final analysis, you are right. Incidentially, I think I have heard the birth pangs of a new Sistrum dealer, but time will tell.
Considering this thread is about Sistrum products, and a point was raised about someone not knowing when the Chicago Audio Society meeting was, and also the Rocky Mtn. Audio Festival(where we are showing), I think that my post was on topic and perfectly within the guidelines.
Simply because there are a couple of posters here who seemingly can't stand to have anything said about products or companies that they don't like, has no bearing on what can be said on these forums. They are not moderators, nor do they have any power to determine what is said here, any more than I do.
twl's post is straight ad copy. Throw in a price list and his phone number, and he would have had to pay to say the same thing anywhere else. Step right up and check out our 30 day money-back no-risk no-liability home test options folks. Everybody loves us.
Take this thread, compare to threads of a few years ago (e.g Redkiwi's posts on vibration experiments), and then extrapolate into the future. Exponential marketing creep.
Flex is right in his assessment. Robert Maicks stated point blank that Sistrum has an advertising agreement with audiogon. And if you do not read Twl's second paragraph as an ad here is another:
"Try some Audiopoints under it...
Disclaimer: I work for a company that manufactures vibration control devices. 1-800-307-0728"
They are not rare, and the content of the rest of Twl's posts in which these ads are inserted is not relevant.
I think how past audiogoners would have reacted is hard to say, but I would guess there would be more peer pressure against the ads. They didn't react kindly to Robert's shills; that is all I really know. Not that I would be a real loss, I would move to AA, no problem, but after four years I do not like the idea of being displaced by people like Twl and I am not keen on re-familiarizing myself.
"Simply because there are a couple of posters here who seemingly can't stand to have anything said about products or companies that they don't like"
Please give names of posters and companies, so I can know better. Because all I see is posters not liking your company, not because your products buck the establishment or any bullshit like that, its because you and your company are behave unethically. You have been in narcissistic wonderment about that reason all along.
"They are not moderators, nor do they have any power to determine what is said here..."
Audiogon has taken action from poster pressure in the past and nobody survives in a community that shuns them.
"...any more than I do."
I have not forgotten Sistrum's deal with audiogon.
***In ethics one question to ask if everybody did the same thing, how would that affect the community?***
PS - "Certainly, we understand that some have difficulty understanding our technology"
Not "understanding", "believing". Don't tell us Warren has the technical incites Sean does. Plus you had to defer to your engineers because as a salesman, you couldn't handle the technical debate. Its all either upstairs or deleted.
Well said Ohlala. However Sistrum's goons will now come in with a barrage of 'don't knock what you haven't tried', and 'I tried it (against an unstated control, which could have been dog turd) and liked it', to simply skew the discussion back to their advertising message.
Ohlala, I'm sorry that you feel that way. But of course, with your past posting history, I'm not surprised.
I'd express my opinions about you too, but don't want to sully the board as you did.
For one who apparently feels so high and mighty as to pass judgment(ie: narcissistic) on others here, you show quite a need of humility yourself. Whether YOU "believe" our technology, or not, is of no concern to me. Many others who actually use our items KNOW that they work well, and need no "beliefs" to bolster their experiences.
If you feel that Sean is the benchmark of audio knowledge, fine, but I would disagree. However, you seem to be somewhat selective in your opinion of whose "ethics" you approve of, and perhaps you need to review the reasons for his dismissal for extreme lack of them.
All my posts have withstood the scrutiny of the moderators here, and they have been monitored. Starsound's "deal" with Audiogon is the same as any other supporting advertiser, without whom the members would not enjoy the benefit of this website.
Whether you, or others, personally like me or not, is not a matter of priority to me. What matters to me is that some members of this website can get better sound from their systems by learning things about audio here, and that is why I post here. Not a popularity contest. I found out long ago that I can't please everybody all the time, and apparently you are one(among a few others) that isn't pleased. That's okay with me.
I've reduced my posting on this board by about 80% from my previous contributions, and the bulk of my typing time now comes from answering many emails from members asking me for advice about their systems. Oddly enough, they don't share your views about me. And I do everything I can to help them. And many times I don't even discuss anything that I sell. Surprise!
But actually, I don't need to explain myself to you, or anyone else. Let the chips fall where they may. You're taking your shot at "poster pressure". Let's see how far it gets you. You won't get me thrown off here by baiting me into a tirade or anger fit. I've been around way too long to bite on that one.
"Narcissistic" was a poor choice. “People” was an even worse choice. Apologies to Twl and everyone. Please replace with "self-complimentary" and “salesmen”, respectively. I sincerely wanted to make my argument specific and shot myself in the foot.
"you show quite a need of humility yourself"
I am quite aware of my personality. I appreciate when someone can take me to task. Giving your opinion of me without giving your opinion of me isn’t interesting to me.
What I believe about your technology is irrelevant to any of my points, and whether I consider Sean a benchmark is irrelevant. Ethically, nothing Sean did flipped my switch. There are a lot of ethical issues in the world. One has to pick their battles, so stating I do not address any others is not a defense or an offense of any kind.
"All my posts have withstood the scrutiny of the moderators here, and they have been monitored. Starsound's "deal" with Audiogon is the same as any other supporting advertiser, without whom the members would not enjoy the benefit of this website."
Audiogon was here before you. For good reason we had a rule, that is still posted, about not allowing posts obviously trying to sell something. If we all were trying to sell something on the forums this would be one sorry site. All I can do is post what I think in the forums. There is no plan of action as you claim; I'm just not going to shrug and let this one pass. Others have maintained a presence in audiogon without injecting substanceless advertisements. There has been an exchange of expertise and company awareness, but not with Star Sound.
“I've reduced my posting on this board by about 80% from my previous contributions, and the bulk of my typing time now comes from answering many emails from members asking me for advice about their systems. Oddly enough, they don't share your views about me. And I do everything I can to help them. And many times I don't even discuss anything that I sell. Surprise!"
I am already aware of this.
I never asked you to explain yourself. I would never try to induce you in to a tirade to get you kicked out, a notion I find absurd.
As a direct reaction to their marketing I will not try or purchase any of the Star Tech products. I don't approve of their behavoir and I'm voting with my wallet.
I would like to invite each of you who feel that Star Sound Technologies is associated with unfair business practices or whatever you are accusing us of; to please telephone me directly. I will take the time to personally discuss and address all of your concerns. If you truly feel that Star Sound is such a huge problem here, then speak directly to me on these issues (toll free 1-877-668-4332) or email us your telephone number from abroad and best time to call as I will be happy telephone you. If any prefer, at that time we will also initiate a conference call with Audiogon management and clear the air once and for all.
In the beginning there was a rouge player, an Authorized Star Sound Dealer from Canada that initiated very questionable ethics. Unfortunately for us he chose our products as his vehicle to do so. Until that point in time Star Sound never was concerned with nor participated with Internet forums of any kind. As soon as a few of our customers notified me of this Dealers actions and upon our discovery thereof, we immediately had our Legal Counsel issue cease and desist documents to said Dealer. If you research the history of Star Sound participation here you will also discover that once this Dealer was silenced our participation completely disappeared from this site for more than half a year.
Eventually a few veteran members of Audiogon posted comments on our products and were immediately attacked by a few upset participants who provided their predetermined judgments against our company based on the past situation. These veterans were also heavily criticized with written accusations against them. They, who were completely innocent of all, should have never received the type of treatment that was bestowed upon them.
I received a telephone call from a few clients with concerns as to our reputation being damaged on Audiogon as they highly recommended that we should participate once again. Needless to state when we posted answers to a few questions we too were immediately met with the same type of response. It appeared that some of the villagers here found their new monster. This time though instead of our products taking the brunt of the attacks, the focus was more dead set against the believability of our technological advancements.
When we explained in basic terms how the technology functions, time and time again certain posters here refused to accept any response whatsoever coming from our company employment (degreed engineers). This was the principle reason that Star Sound established the paraphrase your money back if you do not enjoy what our products do for music and listening. (Please do not look at this printed paragraph (above), turn it around and again position it as an advertising ploy as it is only intended to be recognized for what it is a simple solution for all to justify any argument.)
Star Sound participates in the most volatile and contentious part of the Hi-End Audio Industry resonance control. Our products have been accepted by listeners long before the dawn of the Internet and this forum. Our company is driven by science and discovery and will always stand behind our products, employees and the results from their labors in any and all situations regardless of financial or social risk. Our intent is to provide an understanding as to the technology, product function and the results thereof.
Every manufacturer who participates here wishes to create sales from their participation otherwise why would they be spending their limited time? When you, yourself, work hard at your job, providing your labors that are critical to your future and the future of an industry, do you not expect to gain from your efforts?
The only way a manufacturer receives payment for their hard work, dedication and investment in research, thus growing this Audio Industry is through the sales of their products. Every manufacturer (in any business) is always concerned for their employees and families well being, increasing more jobs and adding additional wealth in order to support a greater positive growth. The bare necessity for increasing sales for all manufacturers arises each and every day of their existence.
Audiogon is growing and constantly evolving into a much more educational site and is consistently drawing more manufacturers participation. We wish to continue our efforts here as I ask this question. How does one provide enough information on a newfound process without coming off as a sales pitch or shilling products?
I personally now find this history of ours just that, history.
Again moving forward, please feel free to contact me. If you ever have the chance to speak with any manufacturer via phone or face-to-face (at an audio show or seminar); you already know the satisfaction you attain when all your questions are answered.
At that time you will also realize that manufacturers are actually no different than the Audiophiles who purchase their products. Enjoyment from listening, the gaining of knowledge and creating friendships is the exacting end result, each and every time.
Thank you for your understanding and as always Good Listening!
Robert Maicks President Star Sound Technologies, LLC
PA, your one liner just doesn't add up. Why are things worse? Be specific, if you can. Robert is being clear, upfront, non controversial, inviting questions, approachable and..... Hey what more do you want, his first born? Your laconic repsonse is unfair and mean spirited, as usual, when it comes to Starsound....
Gee, if you can try the product and return it risk free, what is all the fuss about? Can someone elighten me? I mean its not like they are making or forcing anyone to buy it?
Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery - today is the only certainty.
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