Shunyata Hydra

Ahhh, a post after my own heart. The reason you can't hear any difference from the power conditioner, I am guessing, is you are one of the lucky few to have a stable and consistant power supply. What most good conditioners do, is give you a stablely consistant supply, which in my experience the power grid does not. My home in Texas is in one of those massive "Master Planned" communities, that was hopelessly under wired for transmission. The occurance of power surges and variance in flow is really astounding. I have lost 2 very expensive Thermador ovens to powewr surges. We moved to non-electronic version after the last failure.

In that environment, adding a power conditioner made a HUGE improvement to sound. In fact I tried many, and found that putting in a PS Audio Soloist (wall outlet/conditioner) and then an APC S20 conditioner with battery back up was my best solution. Wow, what a difference.

I tried a Shunyata Hydra, and it did make a difference in that set up, once again due to the power grid conditions. I just liked something else better.

As far as power cords, I'm on record here many times as saying expensive/exotic cords of any kind are snake oil. Once you upgrade to a certain level, (arbitrary to be sure but I use Kimber Hero Connects, and Signal Cable power cords) above stock you should spend the money on equipment.

Power cords for $500+ ??? Really? I worked in the power industry for years building power plants, and I remember asking the system design engineers what they thought. They laughed heartily at the claims of better sound through the power cord. The question they had was always the same; doesn't the power just get to the transformer? Now that can effect the sound, but once it's powered, that's it. Just electrons.

Good luck, it sounds like you already have a very rare, and good power flow in your system.

Reference should have been to Cardas Golden Reference. I also note that the Focal speakers are superb and very naturally revealing and cannot be the reason that the OP cannot hear the effects of the Shunyata products IMHO.

Uh oh---here comes the controversy. I used to have an all Mac system C1000 peamp and Mc 2102 amp with Watt puppy 7s. Added a Hydra and 2 Anaconda pcs and could detect no audible difference other than a slight increase in gain. I kept the Shunyata products in the bullpen because I felt I could not get enough $ back on the used market to justify losing the potential of beneficial use with a future system. Lived very happily with that system for a few years until the Mac 2301s came out. I new I could use the power and the mono configuration and intended to purchase them. But I decided to listen to as many possible systems as I could before I made the purchase. I listened to my system with the 2301s. Then I did the rounds at many dealers with set of music with which I was very familiar listening to high end systems from other manufacturers including the likes of Audio Research, VTL, Mark Levinson, Spectral, MBL, Zanden, VAC, BAT, Pathos, Ayre and countless others. It was then that I realized that, compared to all of the above, McIntosh's signature sound is smooth, rounded and quite musical, but not very transparent, especially throughout the midrange and lower treble regions. I suspect the use of autoformers may have something to do with it, but I am not an engineer so I am just guessing.
Having used the same Shunyata products I kept in the bullpen and newer generation Shunyata products in 2 other systems owned by my audiophile friends and in my current ARC rig, I can easily hear the difference with and without each Shunyata product that I have used. The differences for me are more than subtle, but not "new component" or night and day type changes. But they are there and are worth the price of admission in the above instances.
Another factor attesting to the scrim that Mac puts over the musical presentation is that I could never hear any difference in loading my Dynavector XV1-s at 50 ohms or 1,000 ohms on my C1000. I thought that my ears were perhaps not sensitive enough But I can hear each change from 50 ohms, to 100, to 500 to 1,000 to 47k ohms on my Ref Phono 2.
Then again, with the Mac, I did hear very clearly changes that new speakers or new source wrought and that fooled me into thinking that the Mac was in some way revealing.
I bet the Mac and perhaps the Cardas Golden Cross IC are the main reasons why the poster cannot hear the difference that others can hear from Shunyata.
OK---I'll step away now.

My comments, that essentially second some of those in Bryon's characteristically excellent and perceptive posts: Although I don't assert that all of the sonic effects of power cords and conditioners are technically explainable, every technical explanation I have ever seen offered for those effects (including explanations at the Shunyata site, which btw I consider to be credible), figures to be dependent on the design of the specific components and their interconnecting cables, on the physical placement of those components and cables, and on the characteristics of the incoming AC.

So I don't see why it should be surprising that in some systems there would be little or no difference.

I'll add that I am pleased to see that most of the responses so far have been sincere and have not questioned the OP's hearing or the quality of his system, which as has been said is indeed very nice.

Finally, I'll reiterate a point I have made a number of times in the past. The ability of a system to resolve musical detail, and its ability to resolve hardware differences, are two different things, that don't necessarily correlate. An ideal component design, were there such a thing, would have zero sensitivity to differences in the AC it receives.

Regards,
-- Al

06-02-13: Jfrech
Bryon, I'd add a #5 to your list... noise the components generate and send back into the line...sometimes this can be substantial...especially with some digital gear or switch mode power supplies...

I completely agree, and I should have put that on my list.

And to be completely clear about my view, I do in fact believe that addressing power issues can make a substantial, even major, improvement in SQ. It's just that I didn't experience a major improvement from my Hydra 8. In fact, I experienced a bigger improvement in SQ from various DIY power tweaks, which are discussed in this thread. The beneficial effects of clean power are also discussed in this thread.

Having said that, I believe that the effects of power products, beneficial or otherwise, is variable and system dependent.

Bryon

Guidocorona...interesting post...glad you asked...I guess we'll soon see.

Jamiek has a pretty nice system...it is certainly of quality that most usually hear rather dramatic differences...I used to have a Esoteric DV 50s and Shunyata certainly helped that player...

Bryon, I'd add a #5 to your list... noise the components generate and send back into the line...sometimes this can be substantial...especially with some digital gear or switch mode power supplies...

Hmm, could the wires and PC that the OP is using be counterfits and not original Shunyatas? It is one possible explanation for a perceived sonic invariance.

I have the Hydra 6 and Pythons in my system.
When I have the Python only in my CD player and Preamplifier, the back ground noise drops and music flows better. When I have the Hydra 6 with the Pythons, bass is more controlled and deeper and sound stage is wider.
My friend has experienced similar improvements in his system. If it does not work out for you after breaking in, you are lucky that you don't need to spend extra money.

Its really no big deal at all. The only reason I mentioned it as something other than a typo is that when you cut and paste, you usually miss words at the end and not in the middle. Its clear that you meant no offence, and to be honest, I shouldn't have been so picky.

Walk into the house of the believers and proclaim a false god? Maybe you are a philistine?

Zd542,

06-02-13: Zd542
Jea48,

This is what I said,

"06-02-13: Zd542
I don't think he was saying that all power cords and line conditioners don't work, it was just the Shunyata products."

This is what you said I said,

"I don't think he was saying that all power cords and line conditioners don't work, it was just the products.
06-02-13: Zd542"

Sorry, Zd542.

I cannot explain the ommision. I copied and paste the sentence from your post.
By chance did you edit your post and add Shunyata before Bryoncunningham posted his post?

I copied yours before Bryoncunningham posted his message.

Sorry again, I am at a loss.
Jim

I beg to differ from the original post. I have a Shunyata Hydra 2 for my power amp and pre and a Hydra 4 for all the source components. I use a combination of Shunyata Copperhead cords and Diamondback cords and it has made a profound difference in my system. The music flows easier and the noise floor is extremely low.

Perhaps the original poster is going deaf or his system is not high enough resolution to hear the difference, or perhaps he has the cleanest power available?

Zd542,

Maybe I was not clear in my post, but i was agreeing with you as well as Jfrech.

People can read. Do you work for Shunyata?
"06-02-13: Zd542

Nope! You must of missed the part where I said, for better or worse.

I would suggest Jamiek pull all the Shunyata PCs and Hydra 8 along with the Shakti electromagnetic stabalizer out of his system and reinstall all the stock OEM PCs back into the system. Plugged the equipment directly into the wall outlets.

Turn the system on put on some familiar music in the Esoteric SA 60 and sit down and listen for awhile.....

I would bet he will hear a difference. For better or worse? That will be his call.

After listening for awhile I would suggest installing one of the Shunyata PCs on the Esoteric only and then sit down for a listen again. Again I would be surprised if he does not hear a difference. For better or worse......
06-02-13: Jea48

Plugged the equipment directly into the wall outlets.

Sorry for not proof reading before posting. Should read,
Plug the equipment directly into the wall outlets.
.

Jea48,

This is what I said,

"06-02-13: Zd542
I don't think he was saying that all power cords and line conditioners don't work, it was just the Shunyata products."

This is what you said I said,

"I don't think he was saying that all power cords and line conditioners don't work, it was just the products.
06-02-13: Zd542"

People can read. Do you work for Shunyata?

Jamiek, lots have had other opinions on Shunyata...I use their conditioners and cords and get a significant improvement...something seems odd on this post...
06-02-13: Jfrech

I don't think he was saying that all power cords and line conditioners don't work, it was just the products.
06-02-13: Zd542

JMHO, for the better or for the worse, Jamiek should be able to hear a difference between the stock OEM power cords and the Shunyata. Even with his audio system.

I would suggest Jamiek pull all the Shunyata PCs and Hydra 8 along with the Shakti electromagnetic stabalizer out of his system and reinstall all the stock OEM PCs back into the system. Plugged the equipment directly into the wall outlets.

Turn the system on put on some familiar music in the Esoteric SA 60 and sit down and listen for awhile.....

I would bet he will hear a difference. For better or worse? That will be his call.

After listening for awhile I would suggest installing one of the Shunyata PCs on the Esoteric only and then sit down for a listen again. Again I would be surprised if he does not hear a difference. For better or worse......
.

I also have a Hydra 8. I've used it with 3 Shunyata Pythons, which I no longer own. I also used to own the same speakers, Focal 1027be's.

While I cannot agree with you that the effects of Shunyata products are "nil," I will say that, in my particular application, the effects were subtle. Whether subtle gains are worth that kind of money is a subjective question, of course. Personally, I kept the Hydra 8 but sold all of my Pythons, replacing them with the same cords Elizabeth mentioned, the Pangeas.

One thing to keep in mind is that the effects of power conditioning and power cords is dependent on factors that vary considerably from system to system, things like...

1. Noise on the power line.
2. Voltage fluctuation on the line.
3. Robustness of the power supplies of your equipment.
4. Resolution of the system.

If your lines are quiet and stable, you are less likely to hear large effects from power conditioning. My line is dedicated (and therefore fairly quiet) and perfectly stable at 120V, which may very well be why I never heard a huge difference from the Hydra 8. Of course, that is a speculation.

Also, the more robust the power supplies in your equipment (in terms of voltage regulation and filtering), the less likely you are to hear large effects from power conditioning.

Finally, the less resolving the system, the less likely you are to hear large effects from power conditioning, simply because you are less likely to hear ANY effects. But I very much doubt that is the problem in this case, as your system is very good, and the Focal 1027be's are quite resolving.

So perhaps the reason you didn't hear much of a difference was because your power line is quiet/stable or your equipments' power supplies are robust, or both.

Of course, it's also possible that the effects of power products are exaggerated. Personally, I've never experienced a *major* improvement in SQ from a power product, but other people around here have reported major improvements, and some of those folks are quite credible.

Bryon

I don't think he was saying that all power cords and line conditioners don't work, it was just the Shunyata products.

"06-02-10: Jamiek
I must say, that I am very happy with my current set up. However, I have been happy with past setups only to find a whole new world of musicality was one upgrade away. Nonetheless, I think I'm at a decent stopping point."

"04-24-10: Jamiek
Shunyata hydra units work reasonably well on my system. I found it very helpful to replace my wall socket with a ps audio socket. That made a very big improvement."

"11-21-09: Jamiek
Try a foundation research lc-10 or possibly an lc-100. I currently have a shunyata v-Ray model 2 and have also had a hydra 8. Both have been connected with anacondas to and from the hydras. These set ups provided me a distinct sonic improvement.

Most interesting. After using Shunyata for three years or more, why such a the long wait for your Shunyata bashing?

Jamiek, lots have had other opinions on Shunyata...I use their conditioners and cords and get a significant improvement...something seems odd on this post...

I am also curious what models/versions you are using...and what equipment you have plugged into the shunyata products...were you going from stock cords or something else?

You have a nice system btw !

I haven't tried the Hydra but I did try their power cords after I was told they would make a huge difference. Well I tried them for a week on my amplifier, pre-amp and CD player.
I could not hear a difference between the Shunyata power cords and my cheap upgraded cords I got from a electronic supply house. I returned the Shunyata power cords.

Hi Jamiek, which Hydra model/version have you used... And which other shunyata wires/versions?

What does the rest of your system look like?

How many hours of playing time have you allowed on your Shunyata loom and conditioner?

Guido

A few things. 1. On the lower end PC's I agree with you. Waste of $. On their best cables, I do notice a difference but you can do better for less money. 2. If there was ever a case to be made about The Cable Co, this is it. What were you thinking? They would have sent all of this stuff out to you first, to try in your system. It wouldn't have cost you anything.(except shipping) Also, why did you keep buying them if they didn't make a difference? 3. This is probably going to be a very interesting thread.