I own copper tape and therefore i am a bit more..... :)
Should people who can't solder, build or test their speakers be considered audiophiles?
So, if you bought that Porsche but can only drive it and not fix it do you really understand and appreciate what it is? I say no. The guy who can get in there and make it better, faster or prettier with his own hands has a superior ability to understand the final result and can appreciate what he has from a knowledge base and not just a look at what I bought base. I mean sure you can appreciate that car when you drive it but if all you do is take it back to the dealership for maintenance and repairs you just like the shape with no real understanding of what makes it the mechanical marvel it is.
I find that is true with the audio world too. There are those who spend a ton of money on things and then spend a lot of time seeking peer approval and assurance their purchase was the right one and that people are suitably impressed. Of course those who are most impressed are those who also do not design, build, test or experiment.
I propose that an audiophile must have more than a superficial knowledge about what he listens to and must technically understand what he is listening to. He knows why things work and what his end goal is and often makes his own components to achieve this. He knows how to use design software to make speakers that you can't buy and analyze the room they are in and set up the amplification with digital crossovers and DSP. He can take a plain jane system and tweak it and balance it to best suit the room it is in. He can make it sound far better than the guy who constantly buys new components based on his superficial knowledge who does not understand why what he keeps buying in vain never quite gets there.
A true audiophile can define his goal and with hands on ability achieve what a mere buyer of shiny parts never will. So out comes the Diana Krall music and the buyer says see how good my system is? The audiophile says I have taken a great voice and played it through a system where all was matched and tweaked or even purposely built and sits right down next to Diana as she sings. The buyer wants prestigious signature sound and the audiophile will work to achieve an end result that is faithful true to life audio as though you were in the room with Diana as she sings. The true audiophile wants true to life and not tonally pure according to someones artificial standard.
So are you a buyer or an audiophile and what do you think should make a person an audiophile?
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"
I prefer to refer to him as "Mr. Pebbles".
" It ties in to other things he has. Have you ever heard of Pebble Reactors? What I think is that if you pried one of his flying saucers apart you would discover a miniature reactor powered by, of course, pebbles. He has commented on his superior alien taught technical skills in this very thread so who knows what all he does in "Area X". Probably a graduate of Alien Technical University although since we are not supposed to know aliens are among us the degree is not official or public. |
Have you ever noticed @mahlman, that Mr. Pebbles only makes fun of the people who don't know much because they are easy marks and attempts to discredit those who do know their stuff because they make him feel inadequate? We should probably go easier on him. That's a lot of baggage to be carrying around from 6am to 10pm. |
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OK we have had "what this thread needs" and now here is "What This Site Needs"........ comments are killer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nE8f0MANcI |
There's a whole slew of "audiophiles" on this site who could have made that same video and posted the same inane comments. Having a lot of interest in something doesn't automatically fill your head with knowledge, and it sure doesn't make you any good at it. As with all things, you have to work at it. |
I don't think this was necessarily a superb video it was just the first one that amused me. Have to admit I was thinking of the $250 beeswax impregnated fuses and $60,000 speaker wires (Hey that is what they are, right?) I have seen for sale and found some of the comments funnier than the video. It's the utter absurdity of so much of what I read that was on my mind when the video was picked and I was not going to waste much time looking for the perfect one. The pretentious flowery audiophile jargon seen in so many listings is an immediate danger flag to me that says here are people buying/selling things based on phrases as much as anything. Then they can turn around and tell their friends what they are hearing in those same exact words and it looks cool and on and on it goes. What was it PT Barnum said some time ago? My belief is a lot of the claims I read for a lot of "audiophile" grade must have improvements are just junk and word salad meant to appeal to the same bunch that inspired this thread. Beside this video were many others extolling the virtue of wires and fuses and speaker cables with directional arrows because you know electricity follows the arrows. Most were hawkers of such gear or reviewers sent free gear I figure. |
isochronism Geoff, Yesterday a post of mine was removed. Going by Agon’s guidelines of the four offered reasons, in their email to me, abuse towards another member" had to be it. The only member it possibly be toward is you. Was I wrong? 😔 >>>>Give me a couple days to think about it and I’ll get back to you ASAP. |
I enjoy all of geoffkait's posts. They're typically humorous, irreverent, relevant, clever, slightly rebellious and always entertaining. Every comedian has an inventory of favorites they rightfully consider gems, puts them in a rotation, slightly modifies them as the topic or target dictates and sprinkles in new material as they naturally occur in a funky fun guy's mind. I believe geoffkait is often just filled with an overwhelming and ebullient sense of being pretty and witty. I say: You go girl! Love, Tim XOX |
Geoff is the life of the asylum!! The stories he come's back with from his daily work program outing, has the other patients rolling in the padded room. He love's music so much, before they give him back his Walkman, they have him wear his special "audiophile jacket". They call it that, so he feel's good about himself. It is white and ties (his arms) in the back, so he won't hurt himself. Yeeeesss we all love geoffee. There there, they say. |
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"Take a look around Mahlman, I believe you'll find you're alone and an easy target in that barrel." Awaiting the fiery darts of audiophile wrath to descend upon me. I hope I can survive the harrowing experience. By the way when you get around to firing some make sure the directional arrow on the arrow shaft is pointed the right way else it may not work. |
mahgister: "The wise has many masters or no one» -Groucho Marx" Hello mahgister, I believe the correct quotation is "The wise may have many masters or none at all." Just like our African-American brothers and sisters up until Emancipation, I also tend to prefer no masters at all. There is no wisdom in snobbery and exclusion. Clearly, no masters are required to understand that there is wisdom in humbleness, inclusion and egalitarianism. robrtdid: "they're real... and they're spectacular!" -- Teri Hatcher Hello robertdid, Their realism may be questionable but their being spectacular is certainly not. Tim |
I would have to ask: Can one be an audiophile without caring at all about the equipment? I love music, first and foremost. I love the community that it engenders, the primal power that it has to move human beings across time and space in a way that can’t be matched by other forms of art. I have found that beautiful, artistic, meaningful music, played skillfully, sounds better on thoughtfully designed reproduction equipment. So, To a point, I enjoy pursuing the kinds of knowledge and insight an audiophile cultivates. Only to a point though. At some point, the quality of reproduction is not really the focus, there is not enough music that, if reproduced at absolute fidelity to the source, is actually worth hearing at that level of clarity. The focus becomes the process of reproduction, and from where I stand (a guy who neither knows enough to be a truly informed shopper for $10,000 amplifiers, nor enough to work on one) are extremely dedicated to the technical aspects of being and “Audiophile”. I wonder; though, whether they give a damn about music? |
an audiophile is simply someone who cares about music sounding as good as possible. nothing more......no rules at all. they don’t even need to own any gear, or maybe have just one test track, or only MP3 on their i-phone. it’s the passion to care about the sound. so no, they don’t need to care a whit about gear. or even only collecting gear and not really playing it......assuming they collect gear that is intended to sound good. no rules. just passion related to the topic. OTOH there are music lovers who are not audiophiles. there is considerable overlap but they are not equivalent. |
" I would have to ask: Can one be an audiophile without caring at all about the equipment? I love music, first and foremost. I love the community that it engenders, the primal power that it has to move human beings across time and space in a way that can’t be matched by other forms of art. I have found that beautiful, artistic, meaningful music, played skillfully, sounds better on thoughtfully designed reproduction equipment. So, To a point, I enjoy pursuing the kinds of knowledge and insight an audiophile cultivates. Only to a point though. At some point, the quality of reproduction is not really the focus, there is not enough music that, if reproduced at absolute fidelity to the source, is actually worth hearing at that level of clarity. The focus becomes the process of reproduction, and from where I stand (a guy who neither knows enough to be a truly informed shopper for $10,000 amplifiers, nor enough to work on one) are extremely dedicated to the technical aspects of being and “Audiophile”. I wonder; though, whether they give a damn about music? " I would say yes but then how do you feed the resultant desire to hear good fidelity music? It does require thoughtfully designed and assembled equipment. I think you can reach a point where you are satisfied with what you have and the tinkering stops and then the search never ends for well engineered recordings. For me the metric is how close can I get to a live performance where the acoustics are good or where I want to remember what it was like to be there, which often means not so perfect recordings but there is a sound I want. I really like the things you say and yes I believe there is a point in time where the technical aspects can over run the audio quality. Then you have achieved some sort of "tonally pure" electronic standard but have lost the life of it all. Really fine audio does not have to cost a lot but to do this you need to know more than the average guy or have some good advice. |
I also consider myself primarily and foremost, an avid music lover. As mahlman stated well, the reproduction gear is mainly just a means or conduit to reproduce music recordings with the highest fidelity possible. My system goal has always been a system attaining a quality level that presents a wide, deep, holographic stereo sound stage illusion that is so palpable, tonally accurate, powerful, dynamic , detailed. realistic and natural that the musicians are perceived as being in your room or as if I've been transported to the venue and am listening to a live performance with a seat center stage and no more than about 15' back from the stage. Once any overall system reaches a certain level of quality and fidelity, of course, the quality and fidelity levels of the music recordings played becomes extremely apparent, both positively and negatively,and one quickly realizes that this has become the new limiting factor on one's overall system reproduction performance quality. As a result, the search for music shifts a bit, from music you like to music you like and it's also been been captured on the highest quality recording available. A bit of a wrinkle but well worth the effort. Tim |
mahlman: " Well since right now I am not building or altering crossovers technically you are right. It's crimp connectors right now. How ever I know how to do that and have the correct tools so I have audiophile grade crimp connections." Hello mahlman, Well, okay. But please make certain that all required official audiophile forms and permits have been submitted and been approved, your audiophile dues have been fully paid, you're clad in all official audiophile mandated safety gear and that you're strictly following official audiophile crimping procedures. Additionally, you must utilize the most recent version of the official audiophile crimp connectors and recite the audiophile pledge with extreme conviction and righteous indignation, prior to proceeding any further with your crimping endeavors. Thank you, Tim |