Seeking Amp / Preamp Upgrades

If you do not want your preamp to add anything to the sound, then a Benchmark LA4 preamp at $2500 is what I use. I want to get a second LA4 to replace a CODA 07x that I am selling which adds some warmth to the sound. The CODA 07x is highly regarded and more expensive but I have a new outlook on preamps.

I feel like a neutral preamp is the way I will go from now on. This is not necessarily the right way, just my way. In my 2 systems, I have a warm amp, a KRELL 175XD, and a super neutral amp, a Benchmark AHB2. My preference is to hear the amp and the source and keep the preamp out of it.

Benchmark has a 30-day home trial that can be used to see if neutrality is the way to go for you. A Topping pre90 ($799) ls like the LA4 but I owned it too and cannot recommend it due to volume problems with some amps.

All other preamps require you to figure out if the sonic ingredients are cumulatively tasty. This can be a fun and challenging exercise if the gear is not from the same vendor.

BTW - another preamp to demo is the Schitt Freya+, not the most detailed, but with a neutral amp I thought it was very good. It cost $1000 and has a 15-day home trail. I sold it be because it added to the sound.

What’s your budget?

Hi guys, thank you for the quick responses!  Budget wise I am trying to stay in line with the approximate range of each piece that I have acquired recently to start up my system again.  So roughly $4000 each for a Pre & Amp.  I could buy the used Pre's that I mentioned above in the $2300-$3500 range given their respective age but wanted input on how they effect the sound and I seem to hear a good bit now about audiophiles favoring neutrality in their preamps.  Thanks again, hifi63nc. 

@hifi63nc The Topping pre90 that one can get for about $350 is used as the reference preamp for one of the Stereophile reviewers. He is the one that wrote the review on Stereophile. Soundnews.net has a better review of the pre90.

I sold my unit because it only worked with 2 pieces. However, when it does work it is really good (neutral and incredibly quiet).

The folllowing combo is something that may work for you. I had this in the house for a month and it was really good (I listed used prices).

- Topping pre90 (used $350)

- Parasound A21+ ($2500)

The Topping pre90 also worked great for me with the Benchmark AHB2 but I do not recommend that for you. Too neutral for most people.

The A21+ is a warmish amp with power and drive. I really liked it. I only traded it in to get the KRELL 175XD which is more refined, but I was enjoying the A21+ when I ran it with the pre90. This is not reference quality sound but for the price is very good. Actually, i recommended this combo to someone else and they wrote back to me saying how much they liked it.

Thanks for that recommendation- at that price level, it is seriously worth a shot and seems like a lay up for a backup or second system one day.  Also, I am somewhat familiar with John Curl products, so worth a read for sure.  Another Amp that I just come across are the Audio by Van Alstine DVA M225 Monoblock's.  Anyone have any familiarity with AVA?  

Have you considered an integrated amp?  Many good choices, both new and used, at your combined budget.  The delta between them and separates is much less than it used to be.

This is a bit of a different option, but you could buy a used McCormack DNA-1 amp for $1200 or less and have Steve McCormack do his full upgrades and be around $4k and a SOTA amp (he’s got my 0.5 RevA in for full mods now). Add a Linear Tube Audio MZ2 preamp with LPS+ power supply and remote for $2160 and you’ll have a pretty darn good pre/amp combo under budget that’ll excel at 3D imaging/big soundstage with a slight bit of warmth from the pre and amp just as you’re looking for. BTW, my DNA 0.5 is due back in mid August and I just received an MZ2 I’m going to use as both a headphone amp and pre in my main system and will share impressions if you have that much time to wait. So, I’m looking for the same things you are and putting my $$$ where my mouth is. My previous pre/amp combo was the 0.5 RevA with a Bryston BP-6 that I really liked, so this new pairing will have its work cut out for it to make me happy. 🤞🤞🤞  BTW, here’s a link to a DNA-1 that you can probably get for around $1000 if you’re a good negotiator…

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649873520-mccormack-dna-1-deluxe-edition/

Having owned and sold one unless you are planning on a fully balanced amp I would avoid the BHK Preamp.  

@yyzsantabarbara thank you very much for sharing your experiences.

I like your approach to preamps, that they should be neutral and transparent. When I had a basic DAC I used a tube preamp to give a holographic warm effect. Then I bought a Musician Aquarius DAC and it sounds wonderful direct through the amp. No need to color the sound or add any effects to it.

I have a question about the Benchmark LA4/HPA4 preamps. Does the preamp enhance anything in the sound stage in your system like 3D, clarity, separation ..etc? Or is it just a wire with a volume knob? In other words if the Benchmark AHB2 had a volume knob would you still use the LA4 preamp?

I read here: "Removing the LA4 from the signal path produced a noticeable difference in the sound, and not for the better."

You wrote here : "I am talking with someone who is auditioning a LA4 with a $10K mostly neutral DAC. He said that the LA4 and the DAC were a great combo but the DAC direct to amp was slightly better."

A question about the Peachtree Nova please :)

You wrote here: "I tried an all-Benchmark system with the LS50, a LA4 preamp, DAC3B, and AHB2 amp ($6500 total and small form factor). This was so much better than the Nova 150."

I have an older Nova and as a power amplifier (ditch the DAC) it wiped the floor with my Atoll IN200. The bass was so much better that it was like listening to a different song. Does the AHB2 do a similarly good job with Bass as the Nova in your experience?

@tjag The LA4 and HPA4 will not enhance the sound in anyway, nor does the Topping pre90. If specs are something you look at it is hard to find another preamp that is quieter.

The $10K DAC is known to be good DAC direct to amp. However, I would ALWAYS use the LA4 with any DAC. It is just one person’s experience that I wrote about. I think the digital volume control in a DAC is always subpar compared to a preamp, especially the LA4’s.

Benchmark HPA4 Review – The One to rule them All! (soundnews.net)

That review on Soundstage was a terrible review of the LA4. The reviewer liked the LA4 but he did not do a good job in the review. The review on Soundnews.net is more informative. Tha guy uses a full Benchmark stack with KEF Reference 3. That is someone with the same tastes as me, and a much better audio writer than me.

The NOVA is good for the price, but the Benchmark gear for me is reference quality gear. The NOVA’s amp section was much better than the preamp and DAC sections. I tested out all 3 while waiting for a new preamp and DAC shipment t arrive.

If the Benchmark AHB2 had a volume control, maybe like the Bryston pro gear, it maybe something that would negate the need for a preamp, if you only had 1 source. I have 4 sources connected to the preamp, 2 tuners and 2 DACs.

Benchmark has a 30-day home trial period.

@yyzsantabarbara: Thank you for your input and for sharing your personal experiences with me, very helpful. I am researching Benchmark & Coda further as considerations.

@lldd: Great question.  Yes, I would consider an Integrated as I have read what you said about their quality and the compression of the delta between separates.  My only requirement would be, that it is only a Preamp/Amp Integration.  I already have a Phono Stage and DAC, so no need for redundancy plus it keeps the chassis layout cleaner.  Any of your suggestions would be most welcomed!

@soix: Thanks for your input on the BHK, much appreciated.  I neglected to mention this in my original post (1st timer ... 😐), but all of my Cables & Power Cords are Nordost-Blue Heaven and I do run everything via XLR interconnects, including the JC3 Jr into the Classe Pre.  So, I am not opposed to choosing a fully balanced Amp.  I am currently restricted due to the age of the RB981, so running that SE from the Classe CP60 but any recommendations for fully balanced Amps would be great too.

 I will look into the Steve McCormack pathway as well - I have a vague memory of that name being associated with Conrad Johnson back in my earlier days ...is that the case?  Lastly, I am going to be patient.  I am going to complete my system and then enjoy listening and hopefully avoid the upgrade itch for quite awhile 😬.

Finding an integrated without a dac is pretty easy, but most, in your price range, do include a phono stage.  I wouldn't let that deter as there is no or minimal sonic penalty for having it onboard, and it may enhance resale value when you eventually decide to move onto something else.  I'm partial to Luxman, and there are a couple of nice offerings listed on this site currently.  Most of the major brands offer one or more units that would work for your situation.  Best of luck, and let us know where you land.

@lldd: 👍liked "I wouldn't let that deter as there is no or minimal sonic penalty for having it onboard, and it may enhance resale value when you eventually decide to move onto something else."  TY!  I will explore and let you know where I start and hopefully land for a spell.