As a footnote to all this, when I first started with the Maggies, I had an 8 foot ceiling and this lasted for 20 years...then I moved into a building where the living room had a cathedral ceiling...When I put the system back together and turned it on...WOW... they sounded the best ever...even before the placement struggle began.
I attribute all this to a diminished or minimal sound wave coming off the ceiling. In the new room as well as the original room allI had was the audio equipment, two chairs and a grand piano which the speakers face but at the other side of the room.Both rooms approx 12 by 20.
I would be interested in your (or anybodies) comments aabout htis experiance. |
My three front MG1.6 fill the room with sound that is remarkably uniform throughout the room. Volume and soundstage are unaffected as you move around the room. The Maggies are usually about 4 feet out when in serious use, and I push them back when not in use. The room is very irrugular in shape and quite large with stairway and large hall openings, and perhaps this is why my speaker placement is non-critical.
Over many years of playing around with Maggies I have noted some interesting things about placement.
Ideal results are obtained in a very large room (like a gym) with high ceiling with the Maggies about 40% of the way into the room (almost in the center) and best of all hung from the ceiling.
Sit directly in between two Maggies, so that you are listening "edge on". Sounds like a headset. There has also been some discussion of an unconventional placement with the edges directed towards the listener and the front and back waves reflected (Bose-like) from the front and side walls.
Outdoors they are useless. |
"Sogood51, Won't 25% out in the room create MORE bass then 33% out in the room?"
Exactly...and thats the point. Somewhere between the 1/4-1/3 point you will find a nice balance.
Nothing is exact, and you don't know going in, if you need "more bass"...or "less bass" until you measure and listen...it's truly a game of inches.
The CARDAS setup guide, is simply an attempt to reduce peaks and nulls in any given room....it won't work in every room.
Funny, I didn't know about the CARDAS setup guide, when I set my speakers up years back (maybe it didn't exist?)
I used variations of the 1/3-1/4 rule, until I was blue in the face from moving 150 lbs around for hours on end. I did finally find a great spot, where everything sounded outstanding.
That spot, it turns out a few years latter...was within inches of the CARDAS location. (I could have saved myself a lot of time, and work).
Regardless of how you set them up...all rooms are different, some amount of tweaking by ear, is always needed...even,if for no other reason than taste.
Dave |
Philjolet, It's too bad I have to share this room as a living room, otherwise I'd turn it into a dedicated room. A room this size in Los Angeles is a true luxury.
Thanks Jafo, I'll try 12 inch increments like you suggested.
Sogood51, Won't 25% out in the room create MORE bass then 33% out in the room? Since it is not a dedicated room, the distance probably will never get out to 8 or 9 feet. But I will definitely try It to hear how it sounds compared to 4 to 5 feet.
Thanks again for all your input. |
The rear sound wave should be delayed from the front sound wave...not blended. You need at least 10 milliseconds of delay....(so, at least 5ft. out).
The 1/3 rule, should be called the 1/3-1/4 rule. As you move the speakers between these two grid points...bass will increase, and decrease. The speakers bass will sound best, at...or, somewhere between these two grid points.
Dave |
Think of placement this way.....The Maggies send sound waves in both directions forward and backward...what you are seeking is the blending of the two....just as if there was a piano or a quartet in your room....they don't go against the wall....and they don't go in the center....I have found that for some reason...and I cannot tell you why...a distance of 12 inch multiples off the back wall works great for the Tympani 1Ds as well as the 20.1s...
As for the side walls...I have never had a rule to follow other than a triangulation as mentioned in one of your responses...good luck. |
I like both the Cardas and the rule of thirds (if you have room) for Maggies. Typically you would create an equilateral triangle between your chair and two speakers for a listening position.
BTW you have a near perfect room size based on a (very old) article in TAS - they mentioned 16 x 26 x 10 as perfect for hi fi in general. |
Thanks Jafo100.
Since my room is 26.5 feet long, I hope I don't have to end up with the speakers 9 feet out into the room. Sogood51 thinks it will end more like 6 plus feet according to Cardas. We'll play around and see what happens. Thank you for your insight as well. |
I am along time Maggie owner , having Tympani 1Ds and 20.1s. The general rule of thumb for maggies is to use what is called the rule of thirds to start with...that is...place your 3.6s 1/3 the distance from the back wall of the room (example ..if the rm is 18 feet deep..then place the 6 feet from the back wall)..this same rule is applied to the side walls..so if the room were 12 feet wide, place each speaker,s center 4 feet from each side wall.
This give you a starting point and from there you will need to listen then move them to find the best sound and imaging.
Your 10 foot ceiling is a big plus because it gives the 3.6s breathing room and avaids standing waves more common in 8 ft ceilings. But be prepared to move things around ...it's worth the effort. Good Luck |
Sogood,
That's puts the distance from listening position to the speakers at around 10 feet. I might be able to accommodate that. Thanks for your input. |
Around 10' out from the rear wall (9.88' to be exact) should give a smooth response in that room. (you can measure to confirm)
Place the maggies at 6.18' out from the front wall, and 4.69' on bass panal center, from side walls.
I used the "CARDAS" dipole speaker setup method on the speaker location, and the 38% seating rule from the "REAL TRAPS" web site for seating location.
Works for me in my room.
Dave |
The room is 17 feet wide. The speakers will be 7 to 8 feet apart, inside edge to inside edge. |
That will have to do with how far apart they are so that number may help get better answers. |
