Schroeder vs. Triplanar VII Sonic Differences
I just received more information on the Schroeder SQ. Here it goes; Nordost wiring, silver Bullet plugs, silver cart clipsrevised magnetic circuit(no change in VTF when altering VTA), even larger N52Neodymium magnets,Wooden/bronze sleeve base tower(even higher internal damping),VTF finetuning screw included. These are all extras that can be ordered with the reference but combining them together makes them a SQ. The arm is gorgeous. I have been told it is much easier to setup than some of the other models. One thing to consider is that many of the improvements can be accomplished if you don't adjust VTA often without the SQ update. If you are a set it and forget it person (I wish I was, but I always end up playing around just when I thought I was done) then the SQ update might be overkill. Just opt for the tonearm wire or some of the other updates. If you like to play the SQ update is probably a must. |
Rick, SirSpeedy, Thanks for your comments on the system. It sounds like a good one! It's good to stay away from the mainstream reviews. they can be decieving and plauged by specific owner system aspects and complications. The reason I like Audiogon is that you can better understand many perspectives on a particular component. |
Well, I took delivery of a Triplanar VII yesterday, and while I had no plans to set it up myself, I couldn't resist. (The guy I rely on to set up is oot). It wasn't too difficult. It seems straightforward in its operation- and tracks pretty well with a brand new Titan(i). The armboard for the TT (Kuzma Reference) was precut, so even that part was a cinch. The cartridge sounds a tad bright right now, but I attribute that to its newness and its sonic characteristics, and not to the arm settings. (Fiddling with the VTA is pretty nice 'on the fly,' too- something I couldn't really do with my old Well-Tempered setup.). Biggest difference so far, apart from the 'sock' of almost lifelike dynamics is the tonality of the lower registers- the combo brings a liveliness to the lower mids and bass that had altogether escaped my ears before. |
Just to fill any gaps,smartly left out,by Rick,the pre was the CJ ART II,with CJ Premiere Phonostage.Cartridge was the Titan(newest).An older,and killer good,monoblock Krell was used for the bass towers.There is no problem mentioning the table.Sid OK'd this.It is the newest version of the VPI TNT,with the "very latest,and not commercial production multi layer "metal sandwitch" platter.There is still work to be done in voicing the table/arm(an air suspension under table,btw).All cabling is "really mega cheapo stuff" that is in the system because it works great,in that specific set-up.I have another pal that did not get good results with these cables,but they are incredible in Sid's set-up!!As is the room,with minimal acoustic treatment,but really cool pics of great composers/musicians. One note,of what should really be of extreme importance(I'm sure you can confirm this,Rick),is that Sid is NOT influenced by any industry,or typical audiophile hype,or preferrences.Could care less about the latest great reviewed product.He is absolutely the most amazing person when it comes to what I can only describe as having a GREAT sense of "sensibilities".And even this is an understatement!!The guy simply knows what music should sound like,in a home environment.Sounds rudimentary,and simple,but it is "the stuff of musical life",in a canned environment.Which is what ALL audio systems are subject to. Anyone currently lucky enough to hear his amazing "giant killer" system(not to mention his REDICULOUSLY great LP collectin)is going to be knocked off their "zen" for a while.I mean that in the best possible way.Actually I theorize that his room lies somewhere between two "black holes",and the "laws of physics" simply break down there.It is my only rationalization as to how such a wild,old and not so old,set-up can fuction that well! The guy is a "Legend"!! |
Hi Andrew! The system was a highly modified Infinity RS 1-B speaker system (like mine-but much more moded and fine tuned ). I suspect I cannot reveal the TT (is that right Sirspeedy?) but the arm is a VPI 12.6. As for the mods, the Infinity electronic has a complete modification. This is the one area that I am sure has the greatest impact on the speaker. Slight changes on the bass volume effected the entire audio spectrum. Thanks Sirspeedy for the kinds words. You, Andrew and probably the rest are all correct...our hobby leads us to the delightful quest for he absolute sound. Rick (RWD) |
Rick,"wow"--thanks for the compliment,but it was truly undeserved!Of course it was a real pleasure meeting you,and you are a true "class act".That was the sentiments of ALL of us,so you will clearly be involved in more than a few of our little listening sessions.BTW--are we obsessed,or what?Does Sid have the most amazing LP collection(of virtually every lp of interest,to anyone)or were we hallucinating the "Great Walls of Vinyl".Don't kid yourself!We saw what looked to be a stolen stash of lp's,tucked under your jacket,as you got into your car!-:) BTW--Ed is the least quiet of us all,but it was your day,to get the Royal Treatment.My tush still hurts from not being able to sit in the preferred chair,which was reserved(a week in advance)for you!Thanks,for nothing. BTW-the Air Tangent was the more "meat on the bones sounding",with this new arm being a bit more dynamic,but slightly attenuated on the highs.Sorry!I had to get that in. What really becomes obvious,in this hobby,is the absolute fact that there are tons of great choices,for great sound!No definitive "one or two,or five" best of anything,as you know.I'm always amazed at how good something "new to me",that another skilled,thinking, hobbyist has employed in their own system impacts what I do,in the future.That happened to me,after visiting a fellow hobbyist,in Florida.Now I'm spending a fair amount of dollars,like you Rick,after hearing something I liked,in this fellows set-up.The cycle never ends. BTW--It was YOU who demonstrated an incredible sense of listening skills.I don't think I would have noticed the fact that Tony Bennett was in an isolated booth,while the rest of the musicians were sounding like they were coming from someplace else.Sid loved that comment.I was "clueless",as usual! So,go for your new table/arm. Just make sure it's a choice I can be jealous of.I don't live far from you. Best! |
Rick, You're right, this is a great group of folks and hobby. I think the important thing is that in this leauge of equipment it all sounds pretty good. But then again, we're all a little fanatical and in pusuit of the "best" or "better". I hope you make it to Colo. That should be real interesting and I'm looking forward to meet the guys and exchange views on things. Can you tell us a little about the equipment you heard? |
What a wonderful hobby we have!!! Yesterday, I spent 4 hours with 3 friends (two of which I just met in person) indulging ourselves in wonderful music, fantastic sounds and equipment, and spirted discussions about this great hobby of ours. I wanted to post this comment on this thread for a few reasons. First because I feel we have established a nice group here with not only a common goal, but also a we have found the ability to share our comments in a constructive, educational and common grammar. Andrew started it off with his question.....which arm is better? Wow....look where it took of to...!!! Now there is (at least one) a group (hopefully me as well) willing to travel to Colorado to search for that higher absolute sound. The quest for a new turntable and arm leads us to other things as well. Yesterday , my time with the "great" Sirspeedy (great, great person and wonderful sense of articulating his impressions of sounds), Ed ( who did a good amount of serious listening (not much talking) and the GREAT Sid (who is not a member of our group here, but a wonderful person) who, indeed has one of the BEST systems I have ever heard! My mission was to see his new turntable and arm. What I accomplished was what I said at the e beginning of this post.......we have a wonderful hobby which includes some wonderful, kind and passionate people. Sid's new TT and arm were quite impressive......I had to re-think what I need to do. I am, in earnest, in search of upgrading my TT and arm and I have been considering a Teres or Galibier with a Schroder (probably a Reference) or Tri-Planer or Graham Phantom. So I listened yesterday and walked away a better man. Yes, my search will continue and I will be leaning towards you here for guidance and assistance. Dan will be going to hear all of the products I mentioned I was quite interested in, in Colorado in May. I believe Andrew will also be part of this mission. I hope to join them. However, I know that this is what will be the results: I will have a new TT and a new arm; I will have deepened my friendship with those around me; and, I will continue to discover new music and enjoy the pleases it gives me. Sorry guy's and gal's if rambled...it was a "wonderful day". |
Dan I agree with you assertion on the Phantom. For me, a man with 10 thumbs, the ease of a Phantom (or Tri-Planer) entices me. However, there is something so mysterious about Franks arm as well. I have to see how I can clear up some work, family matters, and other things that always hang over my head!! Yeah, what an experience this would be!! Rick (RWD) |
Bob Graham, I'm just up the road in New Hampshire. I'd gladly carry a Phantom to Denver for you if you could not make the trip. (wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more) I have to say that Thomas has me thinking of moving from my 2.2 to the Phantom. After looking through the features of the Phantom I can see why many are so impressed with it. |
I would absolutely love to audition one of Bob's phantoms (R-U listening, Bob?). I have TWO armboards DRILLED and READY ! In the past, I've never fully warmed up to the 2.2, but have always held its design as well as that of the Robin in the highest regard. That the Robin (with an upgrade arm cable) is a good 95% of the 2.2 is a stunning feat at its price point. Cheers, Thom @ Galibier |
Andrew, I wonder if Dan can get Thom and Chris to secure a Phantom arm also for a listen?? Boy, that would really make it easy for us. However, as Raul says (and correctly) we should bring along our cartridges as well. All though I am considering an ZYX 3 (is that the correct name and number?)??? Rick (RWD) |
Thomas, Bob Graham gets an A+ at recommending his new Phantom B-44 arm. From all reviews and accounts it is a top flight arm. Since you have direct experience with it, the Triplanar 7 and a Schroeder all on an incredible TT, can you give us a first hand account of how it compares sonically to those in question? Thanks in advance. |
Well, after reading all those mails, let's be honest: Every opinion will vary on the setting of each Arm. Each has it's one strengths and honestly, maybe a few weaks. It is the point of view from everyone now, to select. But, at the end of the day, when the hype is gone and we will go to bed, what's more important, to fell asleep with the feeling that the cartridge is properly adjusted or with the feeling, "I have the most hyped arm but I have absolutely no idea about the right setting, maybe I try it again tomorrow" and"...." the next "..." and the following day.... and next ".&%$$§§".. next and then I give up. I'm honest, I don't have the nerves for this kind of problems and the Triplanar is simple and easy going for set up and the King of all is the new Graham Phantom. And when this one is fitted with a first rate Phono lead, then it's a killer. No, and believe me, no Arm here in this discussion has a chance to its dynamic, holographic speed. And the delivered info is first rate. Taste is different, I know, but this Arm works ALWAYS, in EVERY condition and once you made the set up, you can forget all about that. When you don't like what you hear, then it is not a problem from the arm, then it's what you hear from your System. And my opinion about Demos: It's Entertainment, when I want to push an Arm for example, then I screw the best cartridge from the available ones below it, connect it to the best Phono stage among the available ones and that's it. Happy Listening. |
Dougy,it seems you want to create some kind of "thing" regarding some of my comments.Please don't cross every "T",and dot every damn "I",when I mention something. I don't think it would have been such a "stretch",to figure out that my comment about fotzing around,for an afternoon,was ONLY when one is NOT used to something,as in just obtaining it.Obviously,as with anything,it is no big deal,and can be done quickly,as time passes and we become familiar with "whatever" product we choose to focus on.But a fairly new owner has to learn a bit,before they can become as competent as you.-NO?-That's how I believe you should have interpreted my comment!That was my intent. As of now I'm sorry I even mentioned it!Sort of feels like the "old days". In an effort to be fair,I purposely mentioned some warts I believe my arm has,so as to disarm any potential criticism,and allude to the fact that I was trying to simply make a benign comment,about your beloved Triplaner. In the future I'll be much more guarded about any comments,and of course won't respond to stupid stuff,like "it made our ears bleed",and "maybe the cleaning crew threw the anti-skate off"!Oh,I forgot,I never did respond to those!! BTW-I view you as a passionate hobbyist that loves to "rap the hobby",and a very nice guy(same goes for you Paul).Please don't feel I'm trying to disrespect you,or create a bad vibe. Best regards! |
SirSpeedy, Your assertion (now repeated) that these adjustments require "fotzing around all afternoon" is simply not true. Returning to a precise VTA number or fine-tweaking VTF takes 3 seconds, not all afternoon. To state otherwise serves no froggly purpose. You knew this once, though you may have forgotten. These flaws and the simple fixes for them were addressed on the TriPlanar Tips thread, to which you yourself contributed. |
Just a bit of perspective. I'm used to Project, Rega and Vector tonearms. Fotzing is inherent with these arms so I've learned to accept it and look for techniques to make each task simpler and as repeatable as possible. Personally, I can live with just about any arm since I've built a set of tools to make most any adjustment I need to regardless of what the arm has built into it. I do admit that there is an ease to use of arms like the 2.2, except for the issue of tuning the fluid as you guys have mentioned. I still have not taken my Triplanar out of the box but I can see that there are similarities in some adjustments to the 2.2. The issue of the VTA "slop" does not concern me as I liken it to the same issue I have when I use a pipe or cresent wrench. You learn to feel for the engagement of the teeth. This is much more known to me than the technique of adjusting things by ear which takes time and experience to learn. For me that is an issue no matter what arm I use. I think I'm just re-inforcing what Thom posted before. To paraphrase, the "right" arm is the arm that works best for you. I'm still having fun fotzing with all the arms I can get my hands on. That's not to say that I don't listen to a boat load of music while I'm at it. BTW, I'm breaking my silence here. I'll be in Denver the week of May 13, 14 if anyone would like to join in. All the plans are not finalized yet, but it will be a great time. |
Doug,in all honesty,you seem to becoming a bit guilty of what I was being accused of some months ago. I really tried to make my comments rather benign,and specifically stated that the criticism "was not earth shattering",and could be attended to,with some "fotzing around"!I am certain my conclusions are not inaccurate,but none of this should be of any consequence anyway! My intentions were to simply "rap anlog",on a subject that may be of interest,but nothing profound. I make sure to keep any additional feelings I may have about certain arms,like the one I currently own,and it's "still fabulous" performance,to a minimum,as I believe this subject has been played out,and there is clearly more interest in other arms,on these threads.Yes,there does seem to be a good bit of marketing,and defense of friends,going on,but who cares?I like it all,anyway. There was no need to "correct me",though I still love you,and don't fall into the pattern that I regrefully did! Best! |
Hi Thomas, Thanks for your reply. If you could forward(privately) which dealer it was, I will see to fill in this information gap. Hello Andrew, I don't want to use this forum as an advertisement platform(I said that before) but only to supply information of general interest(sometimes it's hard to draw a line). So I'd prefer to answer questions regarding the SQ version via phone or mail. I'd do it here if I won't get hammered for it... ;-) Hi Rick, Just a plain New York Style pizza would be enough :-) I love New York and seeing a fellow audio enthusiast is just one excuse to visit the area. So you could count on me dropping by when the next opportunity comes up(regardless of which arm you'd buy) Cheerio, Frank |
Hi All, Lots to catch up with on this thread. A couple of quick points, and I'll try to return to this later in the day. Quattro ALU = Gavia (with change to TPI platter version) Quattro Supreme = Stelvio (with the change to the Stelvio TPI platter) Early this year, I decided to make a final existential split with Peter (Redpoint) by letting him have all naming references to Italian motor cars. It only made sense to complete the vision - the romance I have with all things involving mountains. Peter and I speak on average twice per week. When I told him that I was giving up the Quattro name, he mentioned to me that just that week he decided to eliminate Testa Rossa moniker from his lineup. Great minds think alike. He too, wanted to simplify and break with the past. About that time, it also dawned on me that some platters (i.e. the Stelvio) followed this mountain naming pattern, but that the other two platters (Teflon/Alu and PVC) spoke more of material science. Of course at this time, the Teflon / Alu platter was evolving into the graphite topped, TPI interface. I began to see a pattern unfold - that 90% of Gavia turntables are ordered with the "middle" platter (the Teflon / Alu on Mike's 'table and now, the graphite topped, TPI version). With the evolution of this platter to the graphite topped TPI, it made sense to re-badge this platter as the Gavia platter. The name change was completed by renaming the PVC platter into the Serac. I think I'm done with name changes now. Folks seem to be having less difficulty with this scheme. They have an easier time pronouncing all of this than they do the name Galibier. Cheers, Thom @ Galibier (guh-lih-bee-yay) |
SirSpeedy's criticisms of the TriPlanar's shortcomings are still accurate, but his conclusions are not. Yes, there is play in the VTA/SRA threads, but this is easily dealt with. We make quick, precise and consistently repeatable SRA adjustments every day. There is no fine VTF adjustment, but this is easily dealt with. We make quick, precise and consistently repeatable VTF adjustments to the nearest .01g or less every day. Every arm has its idiosyncracies. The question is, can they be dealt with or do they present insuperable barriers to sonic performance? On a TriPlanar or Schroeder they are easily dealt with and present no such barrier. |
Hello to all!! First off, Frank, remember what you told me? Keep off the PC as much as you can. I want to make sure you are in excellent condition and are banging out thoses arms. I want you to be ready when you get my order (I am leaning toward your arm) for a Reference or DPS!! Andrew, great talking with you yesterday. I am so happy to hear that you can hear the difference between analog and CD digital ....and with a $40.00 Grado...WOW!!!! The Tri-Planer MUST be a wonderful arm. Mike, is the Quattro now the Gavia?? I am thinking of that TT with a Schroder (or Tri-Planer). I think it would make a good match. However, to keep things in perspective, I was leaning toward the Serac or Gavia plater and then moving up to the Stelvio later (hey Thom why all the strange names????). Sirspeedy......you are most welcomed to my home with or without the Schroder. And yes, I will need help with the installation of the arm and TT. I need to find a way to get Frank Schroder to Staten Island and help us with the set up....hum.......good Italian dinner???? Hummm???of course the wine and such. And so bad news....I am DEFINITELY going to the VTV but I need to rearrange my dates and attend on Sunday May 7th. I have to attend my brother-in-laws wedding on the 6th. Sorry if I will miss anyone going on the 6th but perhaps I could hook up with you over the phone or PC to get a run down of the highs and lows of the show. Sirspeedy, I will e-mail you off line. Keep this going guys......Andrew's input on the Planer and Schroder are most helpful. Now if I can manage to go with Dan and Andrew on this trip to Colorado......hum??? Rick (RWD) |
A further thought. I keep referring to the adjustment differences between these arms as difficult or easy. The more I think about it, the more this seems like the wrong terminology. Once again, I refer you to Thom's comments earlier in the thread. I was basically trying to decribe exactly this point just earlier. Never mind my rambling's, here is Thom's comment: "I'd add only one thing to Doug's comments - something I make a point of emphasizing to everyone who asks me about these arms. I've noticed that different people relate to or interact differently with each of the tonearms. Some find the Schröder to be easier to set up, while others relate better to the Triplanar. Both arms are straight-forward however. Because Frank's arm is so innovative, the user will most definitely benefit from a guided tour, but this is not to say that it is difficult any more than the Triplanar is. I think setup should factor strongly into the decision, because the arm that you interact with best is the arm you will set up best, and guess what? They are both so good, that the one you set up best will be ... you guessed it ... the best ... at least as far as you are concerned, which is all that matters" Andrew PS, when will Audiogon get a spell-checker? |
Hello Aoliviero, . All Schroeder arms can be ordered with a VTF fine tuning "screw" that allows making minute changes without altering any other parameter. . Once you're in the ballpark of the recommended/desired VTF, turning a knurled wheel that is situated in the end stub(No.2) or the counterweight (DPS & Reference) will shift enough mass to account for a VTF change of 0.02 grams per revolution. . As for Thomas Heisig’s comment on the SQ version of the Reference, I'd like to know from where he gets his information. Suffice it to say that neither the quoted price difference nor the differentiating features have been represented accurately. . Kha(hello!) had the opportunity to hear the SQ version at the AAA Frankfurt show in early March. The Ref. SQ (with Dynavector XV-1s) was mounted on a TW Acoustic Raven AC aside a Tri-Planar MkVII (+Eminent, My Sonic Lab) , a Da Vinci Grandezza (+Dyna TeKaitora) and a Jelco arm (+Denon 103R). . As the combinations (that includes the choice of phono stages: Pass XONO, Klyne, Tron Seven, Whest) were chosen by the designer of the turntable(Thomas Woschnik) for the best mechanical, electrical and sonic match(your choices might be different :-), it should be interesting for the participants of this thread to hear Kha’s impressions of the comparisons that were done. . Those who have any questions regarding the SQ version can contact me privately after April the 6th(I'm currently abroad with infrequent access to the net, sorry). Best Regards, Frank |
I should probably get to sleep already but I wanted to address an obvious question you all probably have based on my previous post since you may detect a contrdiction based on my final choice of the Triplanar. Especially after a comment like "I for one would go through the trouble ( of pain staking adjustment) to achieve optimum performance". The question being, why didn't I go with the Schroeder despite the more difficult adjustment process. Let me explain: Firstly, since this was my first arm, I was a bit intimidated by the importance of adjustment difficulty prior to my selection . Therefore, the ease of adjustment the Triplanar offered was more appealing at the time. Secondly, the Triplanar is highly regarded and seems to suit my musical tastes. Rock n Roll. I like speed, dynamics, detail and excellent bass. Thirdly, my budget at the time of purchase combined with the long wait did not allow me to buy the Schroeder Reference which is supposed to offer these musical qualities in addition to my other priorities which are instrument and vocal timbre and soundstaging. The DPS and Model 2 supposedly do not offer this full combination to the extent of the Reference. Now that I have played around with adjustments parameters, I've found that they do not make night and day differences. Minor deviations around an optimum are swamped by the arm's sonic signature. The only disclaimer is that I'm using a cheap cartrdge. A better cartridge may be more sensitive. As well, dialing in the adjustment is not rocket science. Not to belittle the point. Therefore, I am now less intimidated and would be more comfortable with the adjustment dififuclties of a Schroeder. Ultimately, I plan to compare the Reference to the Triplanar, adjustment difficulty aside, and make a call based on sonic virtues. By that time, funds may be available to purchase the Reference if it suits my muscial tastes better. I'm not trying to short change the Triplanar the least bit. It is an excellent sounding arm! For those that do not want to take a lot of time/trouble dialing in an arm and require easy VTF adjsutment, without messing with azimuth, and easy VTA adjustment with exclellent sound to boot then the Triplanar is a great choice. Sonic qualities aside, I guess my point is that the Triplanar is probably more appealing to the folks that are not as comfortable with the time and level of expertise in maximizing an arm's performance. The Reference is probably more suited to folks with mechanical dexterity and patience. Going to sleep now since it's 1AM! My new interest in Analog has been keeping me way past my beadtime. I haven't listened to a CD in three days. By the way, my name is Andrew. It may be easier to address me as such than typing my first initial and last name. Goodnight. Try not to dream about Schroeders and Triplanar's too much! |
Sirspeedy, Although I don't think this is an issue (see below), the one disadvantage in adjusting VTF on a Schroeder is that minor changes in azimuth may arise since they are controlled by the same mechanism. This isn't the case with the Triplanar since VTF and Azimuth are controlled by separate mechanical mechanisms. I'm not sure how much of an issue this is. Ultimately the excellent sonic signature of the Schroeder arm will likely greatly outweigh a minor shortcoming like this. I have nothing but awe about the Schroeder. There are adjustment pro's and con's with any arm. Some are certainly better than others in this regard. The Graham just to name one seems like a great arm in terms of adjustment. Everyone has a diffiernt level of patience to dial an arm in perfectly. Thoms' comments made earlier speak to this perfectly. I for one am willing to take the "trouble" to ultimately achieve top performance. I suspect that an arm's basic sonic signature will shine through and overide the end result despite being slightly off optimum settings. |
Sirspeedy, With regard to your first point, Triplanar has now released a Version 2 of the Triplanar VII that has a vernier like gauge on the headsheel/VTA assembly that allows dialing in a specific setting much better. I wish I could attach a picture but would be happy to send it to you. With regard to your second point, it does take some fiddling back and forth to get VTF just right. However, I don't think the Schroeder is any better in this regard. Doug, You have made the opinions you received on earlier versions through your private e-mail. I asked for the benefit of the others who were did not get your input. It may be on a previous answer to one of the many threads on the subject. In summary, you have received lot's of input noting that the VII vedrsion is much nbetter than previous versions. Therefore, Tbg's comment may be a little outdated. |
Not to try to create a bad vibe,but the Triplanar does have some important warts,that the mfgr has NOT,to my knowledge corrected.Since so many of us are so critical about the most minute detail of analog,I have to mention two of them,and would be a bit surprised if(unless they have been corrected)owner/defenders got uptight. Firstly,the VTA "dial" on top,has too much play.It is useless in terms of "sighting" in a numerical setting,and being able to "for sure",go back to it by sight.Sure it can,and should be set by "ear",but after having an arm that is supremely accurate here,after owning the Triplanar,the accuracy and repeatability can easily be appreciated,and is more than easily dismissed! Secondly,since it has become almost painfully obvious,how incredibly small amounts of downforce(1/100's of a gm)can affect sound quality,in a really good rig,the Triplanar's "hunt and seek" twisting/pushing of the counterweight is,let's say "not fun".Especially if you want to zero in on specific downforce weights.Once again,when you have had an arm that does this much more accurately,and easily,it becomes "more" of a big deal.There are arms of similar performance,and maybe a bit better,that offer these features. None of this is of earth shattering importance if one doesn't mind fotzing around,in some cases for an afternoon!Obviously,the Triplanar is a wonderful arm,or it would not be so popular.I DID like mine.ALOT!! Also,my Graham 2.2 is FAR from perfect,though it dispenses with the problems I just mentioned (the criticality of that darn fluid is not a "fun thing",if you want to go all the way,with performance)and the cartridge choices can be somewhat limited,which I'm not wild about.Yet,it is a HECK of alot better than many 'scribing here can/will know.I have no axe to grind,regarding any of the great arms,we all love to talk about,and am not going to "go off" about anything,like the past,but fair is fair! Truthfully,I believe any of our favorite arms,discussed in these threads,will have their own specific idiosyncracy(hope I spelled that OK),but we DO lean,a bit too much to the "chosen few".That's perfectly OK with me,btw.I love to ponder them all!! Best! |
Rwd, At the time, the Galibier Quattro and the Quattro Supreme represented Thom's two offerings. As can be assumed by the name, the Supreme was top dog. When purchasing the Quattro, I did upgrade to the Aluminum/Teflon Composite platter. But that could have been done anytime after the sale. Recently, because Thom quite actively supports his existing customer base, he and I have been discussing the conversion of my platter to the new Stelvio, which incorporates graphite "Tunable Platter Interface". I never compared the Quattro and the Supreme. As I understood at the time, differences were very subtle. As an aside, I just have to share my plight. I’m having withdrawal pains. One of my CAT monoblocks is in the “hospital” and the HT room is NO substitute for the audio room. So I’m spending far too much time on this confounded PC, rather than critically listening…..sigh….! Mike |
Tbg, You mentioned that in your evaluations a Schroeder (likely the Dps model) was better and more dynamic than an earlier Triplanar. Do you remember which model Triplanar? Dougdeacon, To put Tbg's comments in perspective, can you shed any additional light as to how older Triplanars compare to the Mark VII version? |
In looking at your interesting letters, I just couldn't resist jumping in with a plug for the Phantom (what else?) The arms you're discussing - worthy contenders, both - are quite different in design approach from the path we've chosen with the Phantom. And the sonics will be quite different, too - and, if I may be so bold, we believe it to be highly accurate and less system-dependent to get the best out of it. One other area we need to touch on is delivery: it's no secret that, sometimes, the demand exceeds our supply. At those times, and this is only when we're waiting for OUR suppliers (machine shops, etc) to get their act together and deliver on-time, we have to tell customers it will take an extra month or two. Believe me, I hate that, as we would like to process orders and ship within 1-2 weeks maximum; and I promise you, we're doing all we can to correct our own supply chain, but still maintain the aerospace level of quality that I demand. We're approaching that now, with new vendors and even improved quality from our earlier high standards. With an in-house production capacity of around 15 arms per week (all hand-made, mind you) this should even take care of the upcoming Impulse Buyers! Please pardon the obvious commercial message here, but I think it's important to let the Discussion Groups know what we're doing to make our products - and our service - even better. Happy Spring! - Bob Graham |
Rick,we are (Sid,Dave and some others)going out to dinner,after the show.In the local area,where I know of a KILLER restaurant.Of course you are invited!Also,if you join us,you will experience some of the FINEST "cheap wines" available,in the Central Jersey area.What a treat,heh?Only I must know two weeks in advance as I am making the reservations.Anyother guys I correspond with are automatically included,of course.BTW,this restaurant(not overpriced)is SO good,it is worth coming to,even without going to the show! BTW--on a selfish note:-Go for the Schroder Ref.--You don't live too far from me,and this way I'll get a chance to hear one.I'd also consider helping to set it up,provided you tempt me with a "cheap" Pinot Noir! You can E-mail my printing center--Sirspeedy 7068 @earthlink.net Best! |
Rwd, you said, "...I could be convinced to try a Tri-Planer." I said don't do that. As I said earlier, I had an early Tri-Planer and really thought it allowed dialing in the cartridge quite easily. It was also great to be able to set the VTA easily for individual records. I still have many records with the setting number written on them. The Schroeder came much later and was not the Reference, although because it had the Reference arm tube, I thought it was. It came with my Loricraft 501. It was strikingly dynamic once I learned how to set properly the distance between the magnets, which is critical. I suspect the Schroeder is more rigid and hence the dynamics. I now use the Shindo Labs, so I have no personal investment in either the Tri-Planer or the Schroeder. |
I too have enjoyed the camaraderie found in this thread. We have taken different paths to in-home audio reproduction excellence; however, we certainly share the love of music, the discovery related to seeing and hearing new hardware and the joy of life. My only regret is that I’m located in the Nation’s heartland – Indianapolis -- NOT near CT, or NY. I’m sure meeting and sharing an adult beverage with you guys would be a blast! Being in Indy did provide me a central/pass-thru location that prompted Thom Mackris to offer an in-home audition of his Galibier TT, while on his way to N.Y. in June of 2004. As this was my first foray into vinyl playback since foregoing same in the 1980’s, it was revelatory. Although, electronic equipment problems required that I pull out a long-ago mothballed Phase Linear Pre-Amp (grin), the sonics of Thom’s table, a Graham tonearm, and a Denon 103R couldn’t be dampened, and more than prompted me to order a Galibier Quattro, and Tri-Planar arm from Thom. BTW, for those of you who haven’t had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Mackris, you’re missing the chance to meet quite a gentleman. I enjoyed his personality, and marveled at his audio acumen, and love of this hobby. I know it’s a cliché to say as a manufacturer someone’s not in it for the money, but my experience with Thom proves this to be indeed true. Of course compensation for his time and capital outlay is important and necessary, but I’m convinced that Thom’s primary reward is helping the world experience a closer connection to the music that he and we all so love and enjoy! Since my Galibier purchase, CD’s have taken a very distant (read miles) back seat to vinyl. Fortunately, I kept all the lp’s from my youth; however, I’ve been able to almost double that collection since 2004. Scanning web sites, and visiting lp stores has become a wonderful pastime. In fact, just this weekend, I found a two-platter lp of hits issued by a now defunct radio station here in Indy (WIFE) – the one that received most of my youthful listening. Spending a buck a piece for the vinyl, garnered me a free album cover, with great pictures of the city and D.J.’s of the day. Two bucks for a brief walk in the past was more than enough payback for the money spent, and I haven’t even spun the records yet! Hope this finds all well and by all means, please keep up the entertaining, and educational posts…..Cheers, Mike |
Aoliviero, Thanks for the update, and glad to see you agree we're not all crazy for preferring vinyl. Welcome to high end analog reproduction, there's nothing like it. To have Cello, Raul, Thomasheisig, Thom Mackris and myself all thanked in the same sentence is also a wonderful thing, and perhaps a bit surprising to those who've been around here for a couple of years. We've all worked hard to remain true to our beliefs and experiences, which often differ, yet maintain a civil dialogue. As Rwd observed, a fine comraderie. |
Hey, lets not all leave without some "plans"...OK? Since we seem to be in somewhat of an agreement as to the May 6-7th weekend in NJ it might be good if someone (me??) coordinates this. In other words when and where do we meet. Do we stop for breakfast or lunch together? Do we just meet at a particular time and place? So here is my suggestion if it is OK with you all......here is my e-mail RDAVERSA@FRAGOMEN.COM. If you are interested and would like to join us, you can e-mail me and add your suggestions. Then we could at least have some idea of who and where we will meet. Sounds like an idea? Andrew, a quick question....did you get the arm Tri-Planer from Thom? |
Guys, Well I went with the Triplanar-7. I just set up my TT (Acoustic Signature Mambo) with the TP-7 and get this, a 40 doallr Grado! I met my goal. It clearly beats my digital fromt end, which is pretty hot. Much better than I expected. Analog is where it's at. I haven't even measured tracking force, anti-skate or optimized VTA! Imagine how much better it will get after I optimize the setup and put a real cartridge on it! I'm hooked! You guys will me seeing more threads from me. I agree with Rwd. the commardarie in this section is incredible. I owe immense thanks and graditude to Doug, Thom Mackris, Raul, Thomasheissig and Cello. You have all been an immense help. Thank you all. I will say that I didn't pass on the Schroeder because of actual perfromance or anything like that. It came down to budget and feedback on the arms based on my tastes. Also, since this is my first analog rig, I wanted to experience the importance and effect of changes of all of the key adjustments (SRA, VTF, anti-skate, azimuth, etc). Since the TP-7 makes it a little easier to evaluate this, it was the obvois choice. If VTA, forexample becomes less of a concern for me, I might choose amother arm. Down the road I will try to sonically compare the Schroeder Ref with the TP-7 with Thom's help and see if I want to make a switch. At this point, I'm very happy with the overall result. I will certainly try to make the show in New Jersey. I hope to meet some of you in person there. Aside from this opportunity, I would like to visit Doug and Thom who so gratiously extended invitations. Andrew |
RWD,I loved "16 Blocks",and "Inside Man"!Actually "V For Vendetta" was quite good too.I liked "Capote",and "Outback Mountain"(Oh,that's a steak place)as well.But the movie I'm really waiting for is "The Davinci Code"!!Read the book and WOW!I hope they don't screw up the movie. Doug,I'm certain I would find NOTHING less than "perfect",from your set-up!I learned my lesson,and must admit to having a conscience.Though your record collection might be another matter.Especially if you ascribe to your pal Arthur's take,on the British Deccas vs the Dutch pressings -:) Best! |
Those of you in north/central NJ are close to Nick Doshi, who built my amp and preamp. He's one of the most talented equipment designer/builders I ever expect to know. (Nick:Doug::Jose:Raul) I'm driving down tomorrow night to pick up the amp, but won't have time to stop by and annoy anyone else. :-( Our standing invitation is open to SirFrog, Rwd or anyone else from the Soprano's State. I'd love to actually meet you guys. Heck, SirScorpion can check my antiskating any time he wants to. Unfortunately I can't commit to VTV or any out of town event. I'm on active job search and have several promising interviews coming up. If one of them comes through I may be working lots of hours getting up to speed with a new organization. |
Hey Sirspeedy (love to find out what the name means...although I think I know) what a wonderful idea!!!!!! Yes I am attending and I will contact the GREAT Sid and Dave. You are all more then welcomed to come by my home to listen to my system later that night or day...if you don't mind listening to a 25 year old speakers (Infinity RS 1-B's). I will certainly provide the wine and the single malt scotch. I used to LOVE the single stuff when I participated in a nip or two. Problem was....it was always a nip or twenty....know what I mean. So I've been "sober" for 11 years now and you know what...my system still sounds pretty good (LOL). My home and listening room is not too large (will hold 6-8) but if the whether is nice that night we could always go out on the deck and have a drink (soda for me) and a few laughs. You all......are wonderful. Again, Sir....GREAT idea. And now, I will be off with my son to the movies to is "16 Blocks" or "Inside Man". |
