Schroder Tonearms - where do I purchase? are there authorized sellers in US?

AGAIN, thank you for the advice and guidance.  My 2-ch system is packed for transport, in my residential move from Scottsdale to Las Vegas.  I'll hold off on further action until I set up the system in my new home.  

Mijostyn - I may well consider the CB and take you up on your offer to build armrest.  May take me a few months to settle in my long distance move.

Best way to deal with the resonance of a counterweight is to decouple it from the pivot. 

@wrm57 When we talk about tonearm resonance and damping nobody is thinking about a resonating counterweight aside from the fact that thin coatings do not do much.

As for Long Arms, Schroder will not make an arm longer than 11" He feels that is maxed out and I will defer to him on this. It is certainly a lighter arm to begin with and you have the flexibility of using a variety of cartridge mounting plates. I only use 9" arms not that I have much choice as that is as long as my table will take.

@mijostyn Thanks. I get that the counterweight coating is something of a band aid. As you say, why not a non-resonant weight? And I got a laugh out the image of a steering wheel with a shock absorber attached, although it is obviously absurd while making a counterweight non-resonant is obviously not. Resonance there, after all, contributes to systemic resonance. But your point is taken: address it where it matters most. I was mainly wondering what you know about the OL arms that makes you think they don’t do anything elsewhere, since your statement about damping was blanket.

I have to say, your impassioned advocacy for the CB-1 makes me want to pick one up if only to see for myself. There’s a used CB-1L available at a good price, and I have the back position on my Technics crying out for something better than the Ortofon AS-309S that’s there now. I know the arguments that favor a 9" over an 11" arm. Does your love for the CB still hold for the longer one?

@wrm57 That is the kind of marketing that drives me nuts because people have a hard time understanding what they are saying and assume it must be true.

The resonance that concerns us most with tonearms is that between the mass of the arm and the spring of the cartridge's suspension. Damping to minimize that resonance point must effect that suspension directly not by keeping a counterweight from vibrating but keeping the tonearm from vibrating. That is like telling me you got a much better ride by putting a shock absorber on your steering wheel. We do that on motorcycles to prevent "death wobble" or steering slap, not to control the ride.

What Origin live is saying is that their counter weight resonates or vibrates and needs a coating to counteract it. Why not just design a counterweight that does not resonate like Frank Schroder? 

My turntable is a year old, so I just recently went through the ordeal of choosing a tonearm. I can afford any arm on the market if I wanted to, but I also do not like wasting money. I did look at Origin Live arms, but the sweet spot in their line is the Enterprise. The Agile is severely overpriced and does not give you much more than the Enterprise. Be that as it may, The Schroder CB is a better arm. It has first class bearings, magnetic damping, magnetic antiskating and every adjustment needed in a very elegant simple appearing package that ticks off all the important attributes in pivoted tonearm design without adding functions I dislike like VTA towers and tonearm rests that do not lock the arm down securely.  It's only downside is it is plain appearing and is not going to massage anyone's ego. The enterprise is not a bad arm, it is better than most, but the Schroder does it that much better and I got more than my money's worth. Origin Live's customer service reputation does not help either. 

The OL has no damping at all.

@mijostyn , I always appreciate your posts and learn a lot from them, even when I disagree. I’m wondering why you make this claim. OL’s description of the Agile plainly states:

The Agile has undergone lengthy experimentation to achieve the lowest resonance possible,

[and]

Counterweight resonance is reduced using a higher grade material and then applying a dampening coating.

Isn’t the point of damping to reduce resonance, or at least shift it to a benign frequency? The OL design would seem to be explicitly trying to achieve that end, according to its literature. They might not be adding some sort of damping material to anything but the counterweight; I don’t know. But they are applying it there, and seem to be engineering out the need for it elsewhere. Or trying. In any event, resonance is clearly on their minds. I’m not disputing you here, just wondering why you’re so convinced, since the Agile is an arm I’ve considered.

That is correct @jymc. The Origin live arms fit nicely on the Cosmos. The Agile is a nice arm, but I prefer the Schroder. The CB's vertical and horizontal effective mass are almost identical and it's magnetic antiskating is more effective than a weight on a string. The magnets also provide damping so the resonance point is very muted. The OL has a higher horizontal EF due to the massive bearing housing. If you get the vertical resonance right at 8 Hz it will force the horizontal resonance down lower where it might cause problems. The OL has no damping at all. IMHO the OL does not justify it's price although you are probably going to get a good price on it. It is certainly less complicated to live with as it already has a tonearm rest and finger lift. Frank Schroder thinks these items cause resonance problems. You can also get the CB with silver wiring. You choose the CB for the same reasons you chose the Cosmos. It will outperform your friend's Acoustic Signature at a fraction of the cost. The only downside, if you consider it so, is that it is frumpy looking in comparison. I could care less. The only other turntable that interests me is the Dohmann Helix. I am waiting for it to get vacuum clamping. 

Thanks for all the input and sorry for being absent from the party. I was called away from home on an emergency and am just finally getting around to reading your comments.

I should add, on second thought, a new development. A wealthy audiophile friend in my state of AZ is selling a nearly new Origin Live Agile for $7k because (get this), he’s upgrading to the nearly $25k OL Renown. He’s one of these guys with a $200k Acoustic Signature TT (and a $250k Bosendorfer full size grand piano in his living room, specially manufactured with 97 keys instead of 88 keys, to allow for the performance of certain obscure pieces written in the early 1900s). He will not part with the Agile until he receives the Renown from OL who is waiting for the manufacture of some bearings. In a discussion I had with Donna (and Christian) last year, they each stated that OL is a great match with the Cosmos, although I have heard stories here and there about an inadequate customer service model at OL.

Thank you all again for your invaluable input.

I'll make @jymc the armrest for the price of the parts and shipping. That would be about $25.00 

@cfarrow I thought about the Taycan, but I really needed a pickup truck, so I got a TRX. I had a 2014 Turbo S, but sold it after 5 years. I liked driving my old C4S better and the Turbo languished in the garage. The 06 C4S has the right look and the rustic personality of the old air cooled cars, aside from being a manual. The newer cars are just too sophisticated for me and I am not fond of PDK transmissions on the street. On the track they make sense because everything is happening much faster. On the street most people leave them in full auto mode, boring. I like feeling like Nuvolari driving an old Autounion. 

@randyk Galibier wanted to charge me $124 for a cartridge mounting plate. I got one from Europe for $50. That was a really bad marketing plan. 

I recommend Thom Mackris at Galibier Design.  He really knows everything Schroder.  He offers a custom arm rest for the tonearm and various tuning devices.  I have the arm rest on my Thrax Yatrus, and it is wonderful.  

@mijostyn I have a 22 C4S coupe, the photo is from my Taycan after a rain.

@jafox 1+ I should note that @jymc needs a tonearm board specifically for his Sota that takes into account the weight of the Schroder arm. Suspended turntables always need the tonearm/tonearm board weight to be within a specific range or the resonance frequency of the suspension might get too high. Sota knows the weight of all these arms and can make matching tonearm boards. A lighter arm will require a heavier board. I wooden arm board will not be heavy enough. Sota also knows the pivot to spindle distances for all these arms and can drill the boards without having the arm.

Another recommendation for Steve Dobbins at XactAudio,  I worked with Steve to get the Schroeder Ref 11" arm to play with the Triangle Art (TA) Turntable.    See picture in my system.

Steve machined a custom wood arm board to attach atop the TA arm tower.  He explained subtle differences between wood types, head shell materials, etc.  And he shared many tips and advice for setup. Follow-on phone discussions for last minute setup tweaking and optimization helped to pull it all together. The end result has been very impressive.  Customer service does not get better than this.

FYI - Steve builds the LT arms for US customers.

John

@cfarrow my 911 is an 06 C4S manual. What are you driving?

@jymc I also own a Cosmos Eclipse Vacuum! On it is a Schroder CB. Artisan Fidelity is a good choice. Sota has now installed CBs on it's turntables and will make you a tonearm board drilled for the CB. You have to drill two holes and one of them has to be threaded. There is one problem with the CB you should be aware of. It does not have a tonearm rest. Frank does not like anything that can vibrate on his arms. He expects you to leave it on the lift. The problem with this on a SOTA is if someone jiggles the turntable and gets the suspension bouncing the arm goes flying with potentially fatal results. I also do not like working on an arm that is not completely secured. I made myself a locking tonearm rest out of walnut and mounted it to the plinth. You can see it if you go to my virtual system page. If it is not something you are comfortable doing message me. There are very few arms that are better than the CB and of all the arms out there there are only two that interest to me, the Schroder LT and the Reed 5T. Both will not fit on a Cosmos. I also highly recommend a WallySkater to set antiskate on the CB. 

Another thing you should know is that the only CBs that are readily available are the Thrax manufactured carbon fiber version. Only Frank makes the rosewood ones and I have been waiting for mine for almost a year. The one I have now is the Thrax version which is perfectly fine other than not being hand made by the man.

One more issue is the arm does not have a finger lift, but I can not use an arm without one and they are easy to fashion. You can also see one on my Virtual System page.

Nigel at Sonare Coeli has a long relationship with Frank, he has a website with contact info so reach out to him.

Good Luck

4 posts yield 3 dealers for Schroeder, all of them top quality people. You don't have a problem.

XactAudio (Steve Dobbins)

I purchased both a Kuzma 4point and a Schroeder CB-1L from Christopher Thornton at Artisan Fidelity here.  Great experience working with him - very knowledgeable, honest- seems to looks out for my interest more than the sale, and very friendly.  

Google Thom Mackris at Galibier Design. He carries both lines and is very knowledgable. 

 

Mijostyn can help you.  He's been there, done that, with Schroeder.