ribbons vs domes and sibilance


I came upon a thread from the DiyAudio site titled "Can you have sparkling treble but without sibilance?" from 2011. The discussion is very technical and as such, completely over my head but one participant asserted that ribbons are far less prone to sibilance than domes. 

Here's an excerpt for the technically minded: :

... the middle of the dome basically flops about doing it's own thing at high frequencies as it's only very loosely coupled to the edge because of it's own less than infinite stiffness. Thus any distortion or resonances that occur due to the middle of the dome bending and moving in non-piston ways are not reflected back to the amplifier via back EMF... when the ribbon is only 8mm wide compared to a 25mm dome, there is far less narrowing of dispersion with increasing frequency than a dome. The directivity control is achieved with a wave-guide instead. This is why a wave-guide loaded ribbon can achieve an almost constant 90 degree horizontal dispersion from 2Khz right up to 20Khz - the ribbon element itself is far less directional horizontally at high frequencies than a dome, with the wave-guide then adding in a constant directivity control.

I'm wondering whether any forum members have compared speakers with domes and ribbons in regard to sibilance and arrived at any conclusions. 

stuartk

@stuartk

...and far too often I’ve read or watched a review of gear that sounded promising only to be disappointed at the end by the disclosure that the product is "somewhat forward". This seems to be a very common refrain, these days. Do most people simply prefer overtly bright sound?

It sucks doesn’t it?! Good info can be tough to come by, so we often end up going our own way, which in the end can be a blessing, but is really tough to those starting out.

I really can’t answer about other’s preferences, but many speakers are intentionally made bright to stand out in a showroom to the unsuspecting. Think profit over sound quality. Many music lovers and audio enthusiasts lean heavily on advertising, sales pitches, and recommendations, and it works. Many people don’t know the difference if their only reference is a bright system from a box store. IMHO, most major corporate owned brands are too bright, have too much sibilance, or both....maybe intentionally, maybe due to cheap parts and cutting costs on the parts you can’t see (caps, resistors,e tc, which many try to argue you can’t hear either 🙄)

I can also say that many/most reviewers get paid in ways rarely discussed in public, which can and does influence the outcome of a review. There’s also the subjective influence that a reviewers opinion may simply differ from someone else’s.  Your opinion matters most.  Lastly, I’d be remiss not to mention that some reviewers are great writers, but are mediocre listeners....IMHO of course! 😄

@stuartk Since you are the OP sure, I can wander a little off topic to discuss DACs a bit.  Keep in mind I am an engineer, not a professional reviewer.  So I will do my best to communicate what I hear and experience.  It was 3.5 years ago that I bought the Ayon Stealth Xs DAC and Ayon CD-TII Transport.  The sound of this pair blew me away.  I heard clarity and detail in my CDs like I had never heard my CDs before.  But with that clarity came the occasional sibilance and the highs could be a little hot at times or edgy.  That lead me to try different cables and room treatments.  It helped.  I also bought a very good power conditioner and eventually a better power cord which helped smooth out the highs quite a bit.  I would still encounter a few songs with some irritating sibilance.  Overall, I was very happy with the sound of the Stealth Xs and with my NUC based music server.  

Then as we all seem to do- we start snooping around at gear and working ourselves into buying something, Back in December I bought the Aeries Cerat Hele'ne DAC with a 30 day trial.  I followed that up with the purchase of the Antipodes K50 music server in January.  Big mistake financially speaking (I also had to buy my wife something)  but wow!  This DAC is like the difference between a mid priced phono cartridge and a high end phono cartridge like I was talking about.  The highs are creamy smooth with no fatigue or indication of sibilance on almost all recordings.  I have come across a couple of female vocalist recordings with some sibilance but even those are still very pleasant and easy to listen to.  I'll also mention that the rhythm and pace of this DAC (along with my Antipodes K50 music server) is outstanding and the best I have heard in digital matching my vinyl.  And I worked a long time to get the right rhythm and pace with my vinyl gear.

I bought my new speakers 1.5 years after buying the Ayon gear.  The highs might have changed some but not a lot as I recall.  My new speakers brought more powerful and clear bass, more clarity overall and a much improved soundstage.

My turntable sits somewhat neglected as I explore a world of music on Qobuz.  I played some vinyl a few weeks ago and was surprised at how close the digital and analog sides sound now.  Digital used to be a very different sound.  

...and far too often I’ve read or watched a review of gear that sounded promising only to be disappointed at the end by the disclosure that the product is "somewhat forward". This seems to be a very common refrain, these days. Do most people simply prefer overtly bright sound?

I think many audiophiles do, especially the ones who aren’t into truly acoustic (unamplified) music. Often sound-reinforcement systems are ear-splittingly bright, and that can seem normal to some.

Another issue is that many hi-fi speakers have a rise in response in the sibilance range. (Just look at the measurements in Stereophile or Soundstage.) That treble excess can be perceived as more detail (well, in a sense it IS more detail), but the joy of that detail can be killed when the excess begins to irritate.

Finally, I suspect that sort of exaggerated detail is useful in selling speakers, because it makes them more impressive. (Many reviews say something like, "I heard things I never heard before in this recording"?) It’s long after the credit card has been charged that the peaky treble starts to rub the buyer the wrong way.

@knotscott 

Good info can be tough to come by, so we often end up going our own way, which in the end can be a blessing, but is really tough to those starting out.

Yes, in the end we each have to figure out what we like. I envy those who can base buying decisions solely on specs. I try not to buy anything I cannot hear at home and return if necessary but I've found I can still make mistakes, even with home demos. A certain amount of trial and error appears to be unavoidable. 

@tonywinga 

  The sound of this pair blew me away.  I heard clarity and detail in my CDs like I had never heard my CDs before. 

I had this experience with more modest gear. The jump in resolution was very significant and it took me a good 6 months before I noticed I didn't really feel much like listening to my system. 

@mike_in_nc 

Another issue is that many hi-fi speakers have a rise in response in the sibilance range. 

I'll definitely pay more attention to such specs in future. 

I listen to many quality speakers through many audio get togethers I think 

the latest Borresen X or Z series speakers have a Exceptional ribbon extremely light and fast ,and being in a wave guide it is far faster,better sound staging 

and exceptional detail. And it sounds more smooth then razor sharp like many Beryllium or diamond types .I think their X series is a excellent value 

and their Danish Audio group is on to something in electronics with reducing noise

ine being their multiples of Tesla coils . My brother has some of their products .