I just got a 7000 from U.S. audio mart or whatever. It came like brand new. I’m here to say there is zero buzzing sound when no music is playing. A Rotel Michi S5 power amp is connected to it and it seems to be handling the demand sufficiently.
Results with Audioquest Niagara 5000 / Dragon HC
So my second Dragon HC cable finally arrived and I’m retesting the Niagara 5000 demo that my local dealer loaned me. They had loaned it to me before and I found it made the sound veiled. At the time I attributed it to the low end NRG-1000 cord they loaned with it, when I was plugging my Diablo 300 amp into it using a Dragon HC.
Turns out I was right. Sounds fantastic now, with a Dragon powering the Niagara 5000 and a Dragon powering my amp. I have Hurricanes connected to the conditioner powering my sources.
Nordost’s support (I have Valhalla 2 speaker cables) warned me that every conditioner, filter, and regenerator alters tonal balance in some way that is unpredictable because the effect is unique to each system. This seems accurate. The Niagara 5000 definitely adds more bass groove, slam, and overall solidity to the rhythm. The midrange may be very slightly brighter. But overall I like the effect vs my amp plugged into the wall. It is possible that it is NOT actually impacting tonal balance and rather the “power correction” is correcting my power and thereby correcting my tone. I guess there is no way to figure out what is actually the baseline tone and whether the Niagara is affecting it, or simply achieving the actual baseline tone through power correction.
Nordost recommended I look into Torus for neutrality. Others report that going Torus leads to a “open, unrestrained mids and upper frequencies”. Torus is different than the Niagara in that it’s just a big isolation transformer (RM20).
While I know I like what the Niagara 5000 does now, my considerations are:
-Buy a Niagara 7000 (is it worth it over the 5000 for significant added cost?)
-Buy a Torus RM20 (I don’t think I can get a demo), which is less cost than a Niagara 5000 and WAY less than a Niagara 7000. And supposedly achieves an open, detailed, free-flowing sound.
I’ve found it’s system dependent but I’ll ask anyways: have people found the Niagara 7000 to perform better than the 5000? If so in what ways? And, does anyone have experience comparing Niagara against Torus, for amps, and/or sources?
16 responses Add your response
@ozzy , with my streamer, USB reclocker, network isolation switch (which all together is absolutely sublime by the way), I don’t have a whole lot of choice. My Gryphon Diablo 300 is an integrated so it’s the only thing plugged into the high current socket. Checked with my dealer and unfortunately there is no way to test the 7000 first. I’m going to email AudioQuest and get their advice in this situation. The buzzing aside which I can live with, I am really liking the sound now. It’s definitely not the same as the “pure” amp connected to the wall sound (when AC noise is low late at night), but it’s extremely good in other ways - including during the day now. If I’m happy with the sound in a few days I might just go with the Niagara 5000 rather than risking the unknown with the Torus. Unless AudioQuest can convince me that the 7000’s buzzing won’t be an issue after I contact them…. |
nyev, You know it’s funny. I did have a buzzing sound originally that was driving me crazy. But what I found was that I had applied some Perfect Path Tech goop on the leads going to my breaker and discovered that that lead had turned black. After cutting out the bad section of wire the buzz went completely away. Today, there is absolutely no buzz or sound coming from the Niagara 7000. You may need to play with the items that are plugged into the Niagara and change their locations if necessary. Keep digital together and amps and preamps in the High current section. ozzy |
@ozzy yes I recall reading that in your post, which is why your post doesn’t help predict in my case how the sound will evolve, since it’s a different scenario. Question for you on the 7000? Do you hear the dreaded buzzing coming from the box when the music is off? AudioQuest acknowledges the buzzing sound that some may hear in their manual. I’ve heard that for people that have the buzzing in the 5000, it’s even worse in the 7000. This morning I noticed my Niagara 5000 demo was buzzing and could be heard from my couch when the house was quiet and the music was off. It was barely noticeable but definitely audible. As there is usually some sort of household background sound, it’s acceptable to me but I could see it being problematic for others. If the buzzing was any louder I would have an issue with it, which is why I think the 7000 is out of the question now. Beyond that, the system is sounding better every time I listen to it. The benefits outweigh the small buzzing of the unit which again you can only notice when everything around you is ultra quiet. No one has complained about a Torus buzzing though. I think my choices are now between a Torus RM20 and a Niagara 5000 - the 7000 is out as it’s almost a certainty the buzzing will be louder from what I’ve read. Just to reiterate- the Niagara 5000 is really starting to sound great, despite the very mild buzzing which I don’t think will be an issue. Any louder and it would absolutely be a problem. The breakin improvements seems to be going faster than the r improvements I observed with my amp’s Dragon HC. I think maybe because this Dragon is supplying power to the Niagara which is powering my entire system including sources. Also maybe because with the Niagara, my amp and all devices drawing current through it, there is more current and breakin is faster. Just my theories.
|
@ozzy , thanks, and actually I’d already read your post on this! It’s too bad (for me) that your post/experience wasn’t with the Dragon from the wall to that conditioner, or else I could have used it as a predictor of how the sound will change! But yeah I totally agree, my experience was the same with my Dragon HC for my amp. I was demoing it against the top-tier Shunyata Omega QR which was broken in at the time I received the Dragon HC demo. At first the Shunyata crushed the Dragon, in detail and soundstage immersion. After a week, there was no clear winner! They did have much different sonic characteristics but I’d rate them both equally. |
I just realized I’m making the same mistake I always do - judging things before burn-in. The Niagara 5000 demo is well burned-in by my local shop, but my Dragon HC cord powering it is brand new. The shop claims that Garth Powell of Audioquest says burnin is no longer needed, but that was not my experience with my Dragon HC I recently bought to power my Diablo 300. After around 5 days the sound had more depth and detail to it; it became more open. The tonal balance didn’t change other than the added clarity in the high frequencies. Not sure how much difference burn-in will make in my Dragon that powers the Niagara 5000 demo however. I will find out. Been playing music constantly. That said, I may just spring for the Torus RM20 anyways, as it’s cheaper and purported to do what I want it to do. If I feel that it is inferior to the Niagara 5000 (I will have to imagine how the 7000 sounds..) then I should be able to sell it easily. Since it’s worth less than half the cost of an AQ 7000, I shouldn’t lose too much if I were to lose the Torus. But we’ll see. The Niagara could win me over by next week if my Dragon breakin makes a big difference. |
@ozzy , I totally believe Dragon Sources would help but I’d need THREE for my digital chain (streamer, reclocker, network isolation switch)….. Plus, my system is everything I want it to be after 11:30pm each night, with NO conditioner. All I really want is to hopefully enable this performance in the day - nothing more. The reason I’m interested in Torus (RM 20) is that everyone who has tried it seems to say it improves the sound EXACTLY in the ways my sound improves late at night - more open, more unrestrained, more detailed, with a soundstage that opens up to be “holographic”. It is super frustrating that I get this sound at night but not during the day. While I really do like what my Niagara 5000 demo is doing, no doubt, it is NOT making my system sound like it does at night. So yeah, upgrading my Hurricane Source cables to Dragons would be awesome, but I know it shouldn’t be necessary to get that sound I’m looking for because I already do get that sound late at night! As I’d actually need four including a turntable I’d eventually get, I think an upgrade to Firebird Sources might be slightly less crazy money at almost half the cost of Dragons. But still crazy money…. After listening to the Niagara 5000 late last night and not getting those qualities I get at that time with NO conditioner, I am starting to lean towards a Torus RM20. The Torus is a different approach to the rest, as it’s not a “conditioner”. It’s simply a massive isolation transformer, and nothing more.
|
Well, I own the AudioQuest Niagara 7000, 1200, and 1000. But no 5000 or 3000. The 7000 is powered via a Dragon high current. I do not have any AudioQuest power cables on my mono blocks due to the length needed and the cost, but they are plugged into the 7000 high current outlets. I have found that adding Dragons (source) to my Lumin X1 to be a great revelation in sound purity. Perhaps that is what is missing in your system. Have you tried a Dragon source on your front-end equipment? BTW, I know it is expensive, but I have made many mistakes buying something because it was cheaper only to later on end up buying what I originally wanted. Thus, costing more upgrading. And, I have owned or tried many power conditioners. To me, the Niagara 7000 is the best! ozzy |
I loaned my PSaudio PP10 to a friend with who has modded and tuned his system amost to perfection. It is a low power tube system and the amp has an awesome power supply. He has had the PP10 a week and isn't sure he likes it. Very similar to what you report. Our theory is that he has tuned his system to perform best with the power supplied to the outlet and would have to retune it to the clean power. This is just a theory. I'll be getting it back and putting it back into my system critically. When I first installed it I made a lot of mods at once. It will be interesting to put it back in and listening critcially. I must say that I am not finding my system at all deficient without it. I believe it does indeed make the clean power that it claims and provides plenty of power to the amp. There is no loss of dynamics of bass. I'll try to better understnd the differences. The PP10 is an 80 lb rectifier/inverter system with tremendous power capabilities. I beieve the Niagara is similar. I am always skeptical of the passive cleaner devices like the one recommended above. The PP10 also has an oscilloscope built in and analyses the power coming in. Contrary to popular opinion, power does not get cleaner at night. (my theory is that systems sound beter at night because there is less ambient noise and the listener is more relaxed). Jerry |
Why not try something like this instead? Read the reviews and I think you’ll find it does the things you’re looking for, and at less than half price used if it doesn’t work out you can likely just turn around and sell it for little/no loss — kinda like a low-risk, in-home trial. Anyway, just another potential option FWIW, and best of luck. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649868626-audience-ar6-tssox-power-conditioner-wpowerchord-se-i/ |
Listening longer - wondering if there is TOO much grip with the Niagara 5000. It’s quite “forceful” with power correction set to “engaged”. Definitely adds life and energy and drive to music though, but it may be a bit more than is natural. It adds a muscular and aggressive drive to the music. I have to consider what I want a conditioner for. Is it to alter the sound so that music has more impact and slam? Not really, no… I want a conditioner to set music free, open up the soundstage, add air, and detail, by dealing with noise. It’s possible the Niagara is doing more than I really want it to be doing to my sound. But I have to say it’s fun listening to driving rock music with it. I don’t not enjoy it. Too early to tell yet, but I might simply opt for the lower cost Torus RM20 first, just to see if it is more focused on just “releasing” the mid and upper frequencies from the AC noise without impacting the overall sound quite this much… |