Re-tipped stylus vs original manufacturer

It is the opinion of a knowledgeable friend of mine that Koetsu just sends you a new cartridge. 

I recently had an Ortofon Quintet Black rebuilt with new cantilever on down

from Soundsmith but have yet to install and listen.  it looks

as good as new but until I hear it I can't speak on it, will check back.

As @ghdprentice relates, most moving coil cartridges are replaced by a "new" one.

I believe the old bodies are rebuilt and sold as new but it is possible that some are just dumped. 

Soundsmith does an excellent job of re-tipping cartridges but nobody can tell you what the sonic differences are between a factory cartridge and a re tipped one. You would have to compare the two at the same time or at least view frequency response curves. It is highly likely that most of us could not tell the difference but there is no easy way to prove that.

I agree with @mijostyn that it is hard to know the difference, also because by the time you’re sending your cart for a retip it is starting to sound ratty. I will tell you that I am listening to a Soundmith retip Transfiguration right now and it sounds wonderful. I don’t buy used carts, but if you do, I wouldn’t worry about anything done by Soundsmith.  But I think the price should be adjusted accordingly for non-factory work

Dear @sidvicious88  : There is no way that are-tipper fix any " today " LOMC model to its original status.

Cartridge manufacturers ask  to the cantilever/stylus tip premium and sometimes special parts that only that manufacturer can has. 

In the other side when you send to the manufacturer say A koetsu you will receive not only a new cartridge but a new cartridge with manufaturer up-grades on it that any re-tipper can know about and we have to take in count that ith top of the line cartridges the designers make listening tests ( with the designer room/system that is different on each manufacturer and certainly no re-tipper mimic any of those room/systems. ) on it and fine tunning to what they have as their own tragets/priorities on quality performance level of those cartridges.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

If the Cantilever Material is identical and the selected Styli is identical as the OP is suggesting as being their assumption ?

If it is also assumed that a Cart'  made available from either of the mentioned services, 'Third Party or Manufacturer', is in a very similar condition to each other ?

One variable that would most likely have a impact on a Sonic that has been attractive, is if a Styli is bonded to a Cantilever.

The Sonic could altered, by the material chosen to attach Styli, and the mass of the material used to produce the adhesion for the Styli attachment. 

When looking at a few of the Third Party Services who are willing to post images of their work, it can be seen their is a willingness to use what appears to be a increased volume of a adhesive substance.

Styli that are viewed as a supplied part as a pre assembled Cantilever/Styli from a Parts Supplier, does not appear to have a Volume of adhesive applied that looks to be with an excess visible.       

Everyone agrees that a factory exchange is best. Absolutely. But when you are faced with a $500 retip by an excellent person versus a multi-thousand dollar trade in, many people choose the former. I have never read a post anywhere saying that the work from Soundsmith or VAS did not sound like the original cartridge. I personally can’t say whether mine did or didn’t, but I would assume someone would have been able to make the statement if it were true. 

My bet is with original manufacturer for an extra reason, you can upgrade/exchange the cartridge for a better model too.

For someone though who wants to keep budget at min choosing someone like Soundsmith is one way the other is to get a VDH cartridge.

I have only had a couple retipped cartridges myself.

One bought already retipped with about 50 hrs on it that I had owned the model previously. Also one I had retipped myself. Both sounded very good and very similar to the originals but with a very slight loss of the upper shimmer even after a few hundred hours time. I wouldn't word it that you can't or couldn't tell the difference but rather accept it isn't the same original cart so changes would be or should be expected. To what degree is the real point.

I'm usually more suspect of ads for retipped with zero hrs use claimed and put up for sale without knowing what you payed for. I haven't had much experience with used carts though.        

It is the opinion of a knowledgeable friend of mine that Koetsu just sends you a new cartridge.

I’ve had a couple Koetsu stones rebuilt. They definitely reuse the old body and (usually?) the magnet. Everything else (armature, coils, damper, suspension, yoke, cantilever & stylus) is newly built. And they do a great job of it! Consistently great results. Maybe on the "Black" model they replace with a new one, but I couldn’t speak to that.

I believe Ortofon also takes this approach, though I haven’t had one rebuilt yet. Their info site on rebuilds used to warn that your body could come back with scratches from the work.

In both cases the "full rebuild" runs around 50% of a new model, sometimes a bit less. Koetsu won't penalize you for having the premium stones - rebuild cost is the same for any stone, though the diamond cantilever upgrade is quite costly if you opt for that. 

I recently had a Zyx Airy 3SB rebuilt by Steve Leung at VAS. I paid $250 for the cart knowing it needed a rebuild, and he charged $450 and I have a cartridge that now sounds fantastic. I talked to Mehran and the Zyx factory exchange cost was $1500. I'm sure that Steve's considerable talent does not make my rebuilt cart equivalent to a new one from Zyx, but it still sounds great at 1/3 the cost.

I have a retipped ZYX Universe IIX by Steve @ VAS and I can't really tell the difference. I have a more expensive Gold Note Tuscany mc, but the retipped ZYX Universe is more revealing/dynamic/enjoyable. So there you go.

All new cartridges have a very unique flavor profile born from the sum of all of its different parts and the way in which everything is fastened together. I don’t think you can except to change any one of these critical parts and have the exact same flavor profile afterwards. That’s not to say that it can’t come back from Steve at VAS or wherever sounding good, great, or maybe even better than when new, but I would expect it to sound different.

 I recently needed a rebuild on an Audio Tekne MC 6310. I’d just received a rebuild back from Steve on an older Audioquest and it sounded very good for the $500 that he charged. But I decided to send the Audio Tekne back to the factory in Japan where it was completely rebuilt by the craftsman who originally built it over a decade ago. The rebuild cost was $1000, twice what a VAS rebuild would have been, but I believe that the cartridge now sounds the same as it did when it was new. Not worse, not better, not different. 

 

I recently had my Dynavector DRT XV-1t redone by VAS and was completely satisfied. Cantilever was fine but the tip and suspension were replaced. Price from the Dynavector importer was a complete rebuild, even if not needed, for over $ 4900.00. Plus the importer didnt seem to care one bit about me as a customer.