I knew that spelling looked funny. Icicles. And there you have it , another brain freeze caused by the Heat-Pipes.
"The Heat Pipes are coming"... The Heat Pipes are
What is a Heat Pipe? and why you should care. A Heat Pipe( hp from hear on out)is a heat transfer mechanism that combines the principles of both thermal conductivity and phase transition to efficiently manage the transfer heat between two solid interfaces. And why should you in Audio-land care. In short the Heat Pipes (hp) transfers heat from audio equipment and audio listening rooms to make them both sound better. That's a bold statement for sure. But before you boil over and get ready to blast my post, remember there is Heat Pipe (hp) in the very computer or Laptop you are on right now. It's keeping everything in your computer cool inside so it can work as efficiently as possible. A hp contains no mechanical moving parts, and typically require no maintenance. The hp's are PASSIVE devices that are place on top of equipment and placed in your listening room. In short my dedicated listening room with sound reinforcement, diffusers, dedicated lines, and all kinds of isolation devices for my equipment. I Have never addressed the heat coming from my equipment. Since I have all solid state gear, I never thought it was necessary. But when I started putting the hp's on top of my amps near the transformer. There was a noticeable improvement. Then I did the same with my preamp near the power supply the same improvement. Then I put one on all 4 of my players, SACD,DVD-AUDIO,CD, CD 5-DISC players I was sold. The cherry on top was when I put the extra hp's around my listening room. IMPORTANT: I did not have to remove one piece of sound reinforcement when I introduce the hp's in the environment. They just make what's there work better. They look like Aluminum heat sinks with two copper tube coming out of them. I do have one that has 4 copper tubes in it, and looks to be all copper heat sinks included. I even have some that do not have any copper tubes at all , just all aluminium. The ones with the copper tube are better than the all aluminum ones everywhere I compared them at, which was everywhere. So let that Heat Pipe (hp) in your computer go to work and give me your feed back if you think like me that the "Heat Pipes are coming"... "The Heat Pipes are coming".
97 responses Add your response
I am sure with the record Heatwave we have been having this summer, many of you have wondered the same thing. "Just how cool are those Heat Pipes making my listening room". Funny you should ask. Let's just say ice cubes never melt, and Brain freezes are the norm when you breath in to fast. My listening chair has been leavel 5 modded with a Fur (fake) lining. And tell me, who knew that icecycles made such great acoustic treatments? But how are you keeping cool in all this heat. |
Hi. all. It's been over a year since I first posted about using Heat Pipes on top of my equipment, and also in and around my listening room. I am reporting what was true then is truer now. The Heat Pipes when placed on top of every type of unit be it a Preamp, Amp, CD, DVD, Processor or Dac makes it sound better. Just one Heat Pipe per unit except the Preamp/Dac that I use. It sounds best with 2 Heat Pipes (go figure). I am using a couple of types of lager Heat Pipes as "Sound Pipes" all around my listen room. These larger Heat Pipes along with the standard Heat Pipes have greatly enhanced my listening pleasure over the past year. So Happy 1 year Anniversary Heat Pipes, and many more to. come. |
Hi, Csontos. I'm old enough to know not to get into a heated (pipe) discussion with a person who's nickname is "The Butcher". So for safety reason I'll just say your right about everything you mentioned in your post. And I mean everything!!! All the stuff you talked about, "Specific optimal operating temperature" and "Constant offset" and "Thermal boundaries" and "Design parameters". I can not reconcile any of it. And please remember Csontos, "I mean no disrespect".But I "Done Got Old" (that's actually a tune as well) with tying to explain (defend) something that I really understand how it works. But I am old and wise enough to know that once known as "The Butcher, always The Butcher. |
Jejaudio, how do you reconcile the fact that amps have a specific optimal operating temperature with your attempt to operate them "cold"? I have numerous amps, all SS a/b. All of them need at least three cuts off the source material to start sounding good. But they all sound best when they're "cookin", so to speak. Well above their warm-up temp. The output transistors need to heat up. You can't even take technical measurements cold. To maintain a constant offset you'd have to literally refrigerate it. An amp has to stay within it's thermal boundaries - to + in order to function within it's design parameters. BTW, how old are you? I mean no disrespect. I just want to add that when I was young(that's actually a tune), I would do literally "anything" in an attempt to improve the sound. I became known as "The Butcher". After considerable destruction and subsequent reflection, I'm now much wiser. From my experience I would say attempting to keep the gear relatively "cold" is not a good idea unless it relates to passive speaker cross-overs, however that's an inherent design issue of a technology who's demise IMO is overdo. Yikes! |
James: I really don't care what you say or do. Most Goner's like myself that spend this kind of time and money on boy toys are a little bent and may also be suffering from a brain virus.So plug away as I just periodically post and rarely toast the large number of social misfits that should be out helping humanity instead of staring at the walls behind closed doors. |
Hi, Lithojoe. Did I touch a nerve? My bad. My last post was for those who like to dish out strong critic's of other people finding and ideas. But who expect there words of wisdom to be taken as gospel. Some seem to have a sort of celebrity following hear with some members. I think I speak for the silent majority who would like to speak freely without a self appoint counsel of elder telling them to shut up, your out of place. Or say you are a GREAT Audio-Goner, but you over there your not. So Lithojoe when you say "Hail to the Audio-Goners" I include myself with that group (don't you). And more importantly I hope you have not fallen into that self absorbed mind-set of deciding who is a AUDIO-GONER and who is not. I agree with everyone who has posted that my Heat Pipe finding sounds CRAZY. I don't mind HIGH and INSIDE to use a baseball analogy. It's only when you are intentionally throwing at my head will I respond strongly. So telling me to go home and find some other toys to play with in my basement. I'll write that off as wild pitch that got away. I am truly grateful and appreciative for the insight and knowledge that almost all the members brought to this post. No matter how many times they posted. That's not my place(or anyone Else's) to tell or police a member how many times they can post especially if they are trying to contribute to the conversation. I am sure this post will fall on deft ears to the "Usual Suspects". But this is not for them. This will be my 15th (YES!!!) and final post on this subject of Heat Pipes (don't worry I'll pop up somewhere else as I see fit). And still no Paragraph breaks, Cheers. |
Hi, Paulsax. Trust me your safer being "off topic". You won't get slammed (as much) for having a opinion. And yes this is another one of my "Constant Intrusion". I would say sorry but " Sorry seams to be an answer for which there is no question". And if that does not make any damn since, remember. "If you can't convince them - confuse them". So never be afraid to share your thoughts even with those who say, "The sky is falling". BTW My Heat Pipes must be fully burned in now, because my system sounds even better than ever. Now you can do like some other posters, and put this is your "Load of crap file". I don't have a problem with that. But the bigger and most important point in the grand scheme of things is: THIS IS MY 14 POST AND STILL NO PARAGRAPH BREAKS!!! (what's the record). Heat Pipes rule. |
6550c, actually it will make ice, or more correctly "can" make ice. this has been recreated but apparently the modern lighting even int he mideast desert places has resulted in enought light scattering and such that only on the darkest nights and often not even then will it work. goes without saying that it needs to be a very cold night in the desert. wow, talk about off topic! sorry all. |
Corazon you actually can reduce the temp of stuff without contact by ways other than a fan. Not helpful for us but radiative heat transfer only need a temperature delta and view to work. the old school arabs, before light polution, used to be able to make ice in the desert by digging a hole and putting a bucket of water at the bottom. the water only "saw" the night sky (ie. deep space) and the heat transfer of that was enough to form ice on the water. I tried putting my amp in a hole in the back yard last night but could discern no audible effect. Maybe it's my cables. |
I got to say, this is a hugely entertaining thread. I even had a few laugh out loud moments! I am just a layman and by no means an expert but as usual Al, Elizabeth and a few others have let logic prevail. How on earth can a device reduce the temperature of something if it is not in contact with it? Just plain silly. I understand how a fan works, a device excluded from my statement! I am going to hazard a guess here: it seems the OP notices a difference when HP is placed over transformers and power supplies. HP contains copper. Other than dampening vibrations could it effect RFI/EMI or stray fields of some other unknown force resulting in the difference the OP hears? Sebrof, perhaps Noble100 could fashion some type of strap for you! Best, Dave |
AlMarg, to answer your question as to what the final difference in temperature at the device we wish to cool, would be by using the HP in addition to the original cooling devices, I would hazard to say that there would be NO difference since the main driving force (delta temperature) hasn't changed. The temperature at the 'rejection' end of this heat removal system hasn't changed, therefore there is no increased temperature difference, hence no more heat transfer than before. Of course, if the cooling system was only marginal and the device to be cooled increases in temperature then the addition of further cooling capacity (which is after all, all that the heat pipes are)might be needed. Salut, Bob P. |
On the surface I can understand the enthusiasm of the poster. HP's are pretty neat and you can, again on the surface, see some advantages. No moving parts, no interference, no maintenance, silent, other things as well. Digging deeper and doing some thinking I would propose to the poster that a couple issues exist. First we are really talking about 3 systems here. First there is some component we wish to cool. That basically (thinking CPU model here) conducts to your heat pipe. Within the HP we get transfer driven by the phase change (with some temp delta and gravity to help out). Now though we need to get the heat away from the HP to keep the party going. This is why your laptop nearly always has a fan blowing across the hot side fins attached to the HP. I'm not going to mess with the math as I'm not really that interested, but as I recall the size v. power issues relegate HP's (the pure passive kind, no fans) to fairly low power stuff. In grad school we spent a term only on cooling on electronic systems and I cant recall finding much that the passive HP can handle by itself. Mind I did not look hard but.....? Other question is how this sort of thing affects sound and man I have no intention of even sticking my head in there, I'm still trying to find the audio equivalent of the bathroom. |
Hi, Almarg. The Heat Pipes I have are not the Vortex 752. It is the closest to the ones I have. Mine looks like the Vortex except it is one whole piece like the one you are showing. It also has a copper base plate. The two copper tubes are coming out the same way as the Heat Pipes I have. The Vortex, if it was one solid piece with a copper base plate and no split in the middle, it would be a perfect match. |
Jejaudio, thanks for the clarifications of what you have been referring to. The Vortex 752 is an ordinary and now obsolete CPU heatsink that was made by Coolermaster, a leading manufacturer of that kind of thing. Here is a link. It sold for about $25 (including fan!) a few years ago, and utilized two heat pipes. It is not mechanically compatible with the sockets that are utilized by current generation CPU's. Not that it has any relevance to the subject of the thread, but for anyone who may be curious the Thermalright model I linked to earlier uses 6 heat pipes, is compatible with all recent Intel CPU sockets, and sells for about $65 plus the cost of a separate fan. It is too large to fit into some computer cases. It is what I am using in the computer I am typing on now. Regards, -- Al |
Hi, I found a Heat Pipe that looks like the one I have. It is called a VORTEX 752. It looks almost like the 15 Heat Pipes I have, except there is no split in the middle. It is one whole piece. Thanks Timrhu for the kind words (I think). Almarg, thanks for the link. The 1 all copper Heat Pipe I have looks like the one you are showing, except the one I have has a thick copper base plate on the back of it. |
Thanks! Despite the constant intrusion of the OP I learned something useful from reading this thread.Exactly. Although I'm not sure what good it'll do me, I've learned quite a bit here also. Thanks to Jejaudio for starting this thread even though he hasn't a clue what he's talking about, IMO. If he believes his heat pipes make his system sound better and increase his enjoyment, good for him. |
Al - I agree. I can see some relevance in laptop design where larger heatsink or heatsink with fan might not fit but cannot imagine any sense of it in SS amplifier where output transistors that generate heat are already mounted to external heatsinks. Placing heat pipes "on top of my amps near the transformer" makes absolutely no sense to me. I vote for 0.00001 degree. "You may be thinking of computers that utilize water-cooling" Heat pipe is liquid cooling - typically ammonia with alcohol. |
03-28-11: 6550cYou may be thinking of computers that utilize water-cooling. Heat pipe-based coolers, at least those that I am familiar with, vent similarly to any other conventional air-cooled design. Although I agree that they are most commonly found in high performance computers such as those built by overclockers (I am one of them). See the photos I linked to in my previous post for an example of what I think the OP is referring to. Regards, -- Al |
Can one of you thermal experts hazard a guess that would provide some quantitative perspective on all of this? As far as I can tell, given that he hasn't yet posted any links or photos, the OP appears to be referring to a heat-pipe based heat sink assembly that would be used on a computer cpu chip, minus the fan that would normally be attached to it in a computer application. Those things have a contact area that is in the rough vicinity of 2 square inches (around 1.4 inches on each side). Here is an example of a very good one (note that there are four photos that can be scrolled through), having more heat pipes and undoubtedly more radiating surface area than the ones the OP described. What would be your rough ballpark guess as to the reduction in semiconductor case or junction temperatures that might result from loosely placing one of these things on top of a stereo component, either an amp or a low powered component? 1 degree? 0.01 degrees? 0.00001 degrees? My guess, not having much background in thermal design, is that among those three numbers the answer would be closest to the latter. Regards, -- Al |
Paste suppose to improve thermal contact since surface is never perfectly smooth (to lower case to heatsink thermal resistance). Jejaudio said: "It's keeping everything in your computer cool inside so it can work as efficiently as possible." It might slightly improve efficiency of computer that is mostly cmos (cooler MOS = faster = lower losses on switching) but does nothing to efficiency of typical SS amp (unless we're talking class D). Sebrof - I don't have a clue what it does have to do with either. This is perfect example of the "Gardener's Syndrome" that makes people constantly trim, improve etc. |
