The hole is pretty minimal, drilled for a Schroeder. The board is about 3/4 inch thick acrylic, pretty inert.
The Dynavector I have is a pretty good specimen but it is a 501 MK 1 so no cue device.
Questions Regarding Installing a Wheaton Triplanar On A SOTA Cosmos
As luck would have it I recently acquired a Wheaton Triplanar VII U2, and am waiting on it being shipped. So at this point I am trying to decide what the most favorable table to mount it on, and what arm gets replaced. I have a SOTA Cosmos Eclipse with a SME V on it, and that would be my preferred place to install it. The only thing is this Triplanar has the arm cable extending out the back of the arm pillar instead of routed out the bottom of it. I have to assume the cable is going to have to be routed on top of the arm board and then over the edge into the body of the Cosmos. Not wild about that but do not see any other options other than drilling a 1/4 hole and routing the cable through it. Anyone have any experiences to share if they have installed it on a SOTA table?
My second alternative is to put the arm on my Scheu in place of a Dynavector DV505 I have. That is certainly a straightforward option, with no issues to be solved. However, I have never been fond of the SME V on the SOTA, so this would be my first choice.
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I do like the Triplanar arm. For an arm that has so much adjustability I don’t see how to adjust the cue lever bar. This one wants to drift a bit on set down and pick up. From searches on the net this seems to be an issue others have had. With the only fixes seem kind of janky. Wish there was a way to level that rod. |
I have tri-planar on my clear audio innovations woody and love the synergy. I have the 9.8 inch arm and have another that I want to mount a mono cart on down the road. You may want to investigate this combination as I see these come up for sale a few times a year, pm me if you would like to discuss. |
And of course if you really must have very low effective mass, there is always the ADC LFA2, 6g total. https://www.vinylengine.com/library/adc/lmf-2.shtml Three of my favorite cartridges have very high compliance, the Ortofon MC2000, which vexes the OP, the Acutex 320 series (LPM and M versions, with a compliance of 42), and the B&O MMC1. The latter two are easier to satisfy than the MC2000, since they are intrinsically light weight; whereas the MC2000 weighs 11g all by itself In practice, I have successfully used tonearms in the low range of "medium" effective mass with all of these. I'd try a suspect pairing before going on to turn a tonearm with interchangeable headshells into a fixed headshell type. In a pinch, that CF headshell you have unearthed or an old super light weight aluminum headshell, e.g., SME, would be worth a try. |
If one is willing to continuous wore a TA, the Bayonets inserted plastic cylinder housing the signal path pins id removable, which will shave weight further. The interference fit design I am familiar with, which is designed to be used for the replacement of a SME Type Removable Head Shell, has enabled a little more weight to be removed in conjunction with the plastic cylinder. The Screw Clamp is redundant and removed, the wall of the part for the clamping of the Headshell is a lesser gauge as it is a better metal for the role of being less substance. |
@lewm Would the Link not be easier? |
I’m running my MC2000 on my Reed 2A with the red cedar arm wand. Probably effective mass in the 10-12 Gm range. No problem. Anyway the TP is in that same range for effective mass. So in that hat respect you’re no better off with the TP. If you want to be a slave to the formula for resonant frequency, then there’s virtually no modern tonearm that works (according to JG Holt you need a 5gm tonearm). Just go for it. Nothing will break. |
@lewm The arm effective mass is 11 grams, which is higher than I feel comfortable running the cartridge at. I never could find a vertical effective mass for the vestigial arm on the Dynavector, but I always ran the lightest head shells I could find. In the end I used a Denon that weighed 5.6 grams. |
@neonknight Great News that your initial setting up has presented in a manner that has been quite satisfying. The 6310 has its fan club, I like it as a model as it is very honest, it does not conceal much about how its parts are assembled to enable function, which is nice if one likes seeing under the hood of a Cart'. |
Well back to our regular programming. Since I have a spare arm board for the SOTA and the Scheu I figured I would trial a temporary installation. I started laying out the SOTA option, and even at the eyeballing stage it can be seen that the rear stub of the arm is too long to clear the right corner of the table. Not only do you have to space the arm board or arm up, the dustcover is going to have to be removed. Not an option I wanted to pursue. Next up came the Scheu, and so I pulled the Dynavector off. I roughed the angle of the board in, placed the arm on the back of board and held it in place with a generous application of strong double sided tape. It took a bit of maneuvering to get the right angle for the arm, and this gives me a reference when the permanent arm board shows up so I can lay it out for a drilling pattern. Made fine adjustments with the board to obtain correct spindle to pivot numbers and we cinched down the bolt.
As long as I was this far, I decided to put a cartridge on it and see if the offset between the arm board and the top of the platter was too great, or if I would have to find a way to raise the arm board. Put on an Audio Tekne MC6310 and adjusted VTA to find I was in the center of the range. At this point I can set VTF as that only takes a minute. Now with minimal antiskate dialed in I can at least spin a donor album and make sure both channels are playing. Which I did, and even without finishing the alignment it sounded surprisingly good. So I ran some errands and when I came back in the afternoon, I aligned the cartridge and decided to spin a couple of good albums. The performance is quite nice, its rich and vibrant without any significant loss of detail. Definite improvement over my Dynavector, so this is where I am going to use it. The only downside is I now have no way to play my Ortofon MC2000's. I know a Scheu dealer in Canada and I reached out to see if he had any extra black arm boards. No blank ones, but there was one with a small hole drilled towards the back and in the center axis of the board, probably in the 30 mm range. Probably for an older Rega, Origin Live, or something like that. I can cover that up with the base flange of the Triplanar and then drill the bolt pattern for a permanent mount. So once I get that I will complete the permanent installation. But for now I can listen to it, and its a gem. |
@lewm It is no secret, I have a means of writing on this forum, that is long winded (prolix), I make such a claim unashamedly, and for such I receive comment. Additionally, I quite enjoy using Capitol Letter whilst structuring a sentence, it is my choice to not restrict a Capitol to a Proper Noun and to stray into poor Orthography. The forum does not bind individuals from having a display of Poetic License or to Wax Lyrical, I enjoy this injection of unruliness used in a selection of my Posts. None of the above matters, if the content put forward has enabled another to ponder something described a little deeper, and adopt a method that has been presented. My own personal mail box is testament to others on occasion informing the Penny Dropped and an idea is now being sought through to a realisation. There is very little discovered within this forum to discourage me to be something different. My observations of this forum, before becoming a member and as a member, leaves me with the understanding the fundamental is about encouraging inquirers to spend, and it does seem to me prior to my joining this was a direction steered from those with concealed agendas, there is no doubt, a period within this forum where a unbalanced period was dominated by members with a commercial interest in the outcome of inquiries made within a thread. Some got so blase, the approach was almost a sales pitch with some sort of elaborate description to be excused for such a Cold Calling Attitude. I joined this forum to counter such an attitude, and share alternative info, based on experiences had only, and at worse, based on experiences described by known and very trusted individuals. I am always encouraged, to participate in this forum, there is a lot that can be shared, even if a little repetitive, that will hopefully, encourage an individual to optimise what they possess as an audio set up, for not too much of a financial outlay, prior to throwing substantial monies at items, that are not encountered in advance and only a fantastical perception of its performance is the faux experience that has developed. There are hostilities to be met, when one steers the idea away from spending, especially within a environment that is quite honed on the concept of spending as the solution. Fortunately this member is not a flimsy reed in the wind, there is a bit more resistance to the forces that are around.
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Most of us regulars would agree with your philosophy. There is not a single element in either of my two systems that has not been modified (hopefully, upgraded) by me, and I totally agree with the vital importance of structural elements. I consider myself somewhat of an audio cheapskate. But who is being hounded, was my question. |
@lewm I am not a member of the 'fix it with $1000's gang', I'm on the, 'be investigative' and look at what you are doing with the set up, for some that is a harder method than parting with money without much knowledge of what is being bought into . I will usually be on the outside of many a discussion, as the fix is commonly how much monies are to be spent on a unknown product with the chances it has never been an 'in front of experience' by the OP, as well as very likely the recommender as well. In my Country, that as a practice, has a special idiom reserved for such a practice, and it is not, 'waste not want not' that I encourage. |
@tomic601 It is great to know that others like yourself, both experimental and curious are able to be discovered in audio forums. Such good to know types are becoming rare, some might say hounded out. Have a look at the Link, this is the future, not all will call it Mycelium, it will get an internal fancy name to make it seem incredibly expensive, as Linn has recently done in their £50K TT, where P'holz is used. Linn are using Product X to add to the Ker Ching.
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@lewm My follow up references made to my use of a Platter Mat and Genre, has not been prompted by yourself. I sense you fully understood I was describing a perception of impact on sound from the material selected for use. To elaborate, on my set up in my environment, I have discovered certain materials and supporting ancillaries, that are intended to be used at the interface of LP > Platter or LP > Cartridge, that are not able to enable the systems capabilities to deliver to the level of presentation that has been realised within my own system in most up to date guise. There are materials and supporting ancillaries selected, that have to some degree and without doubt, Obscured, Masked, Concealed, Kept Hidden, Blocked Out, the systems capabilities of producing perceivable Dynamics - Micro Details - Attack - Tone - Timbre - Envelope and Coherence. I stand by my statement that many who are keen to use a Vinyl Medium as their Source Material are using set ups that have the impact where one of the following - Obscured, Masked, Concealed, Kept Hidden, Blocked Out - is occurring to some degree. As stated, if one is heavily invested in their Vinyl Source to have this as the impact on the sound being produced, if present, this to myself, is seemingly a wasteful condition. I have helped others discover this condition in their system and assisted with aiding them to move beyond this condition being noticeable in their system. My Loans of items are instrumental to the condition being realised and through trials of differing configurations of materials at a interface, a version of a improved alternative has also been realised. The result, being that another has been enabled to create differing interfaces, along with TA geometry tweaks to capitalise on the interfaces being created. To attempt to be clear, In my unique listening environment on my System. I have been able to set aside materials due to their poor value as an addition and select others that add value, especially through enabling the systems capabilities for creating a perception that - Dynamics - Micro Details - Attack - Tone - Timbre - Envelope and Coherence are all present and are far removed from being perceived as - Obscured, Masked, Concealed, Kept Hidden, Blocked Out. To have a system that has realised the above Capabilities and attractive traits. Which is the result of being enabled through design, component and material selection, with the fundamental intention to create the perception of such valuable traits being presented. Is to have a system that has an interaction with a listener that can/will become addictive. I once demo’d at a public attended event, where approx’ 500 paying visitors were in attendance. A very conspicuous visitor to my space came back for numerous visits, as did quite a few other visitor. At the end of the day the conspicuous visitor came to my room with one other person, they made it known they are a Company producing TT’s with a starting price of £50K and have customers with systems costing £000 000’s. They wanted to tell me my system had them mesmerised and was a real credit to the show, especially in how I had shown that a system can be produced on a budget that impresses in a very similar way to one of their uber expensive clients system. I’ll take that as Win 😎 Such a system certainly hits home on the satisfying the individuals unique stimulus from the impact of the environment on the function of the Amygdala. As a result of sound encountered in an environment, there is a stimulus, it’s not a Nicotine or Caffeine hit, there is more gentle and longer lasting impression from the Chemical Reactions resulting from the Amygdala Stimulus, one that is the stimulus to keep the pursuit ongoing by the audio enthusiast. One does not put their hands over their ears to close out a sound just because it hurts their ear drum, they also do it because the sound, as a non medical description, is freaking the Amygdala out. The Chemical Reactions being produced trigger the motor neurons and the protected ear is not a choice, it is a reaction. As stated, the sound created by creating an audio system can be very good for - Mind - Body - Spirit, it don’t have to be limited to Whale Calls and Breaking Waves. Where did the pursuit start, fortunately for myself, I have learnt of the value of having a High Quality Bearing Assembly, a long time before I had encountered many of the experiences being referred to in the above posts and other posts made on this forum. The overhauled platter spindle bearing, where the design is limited to producing axis trueness, reduction in friction and metal on metal avoidance, have been known to myself for many years. These three items being addressed are of high importance to enable a proportion of a perception of - Dynamics - Micro Details - Attack - Tone - Timbre - Envelope and Coherence to be noticeably present when compared to a non overhauled bearing. What is usually noticeable with immediacy, is the quietness, the TT when rotating is just so not there, the benefits of this condition are more timely to learn, not all are aligned to the valuable traits and detecting them, even myself many years past. Where does one go after being able to perceive such positives are to be had from a bearing overhaul. Platter Mats are easy, a quick swap out if a certain range of thickness are used only. There are hundreds of options to be had. The Commercial Sector love the Vinyl Enthusiasts keenness to try out Mats, one can pay $500+ for the privilege. My suggestion start with Rubber - Cork - Rubber Cork. Each will have the potential to present with a different impact on the sound being produced, do not stop and rest on laurels, there are very valuable discoveries to be made. There is another investigation very worthwhile, which is looking into a TT’s Speed. Controlling Speed in a improved and precision manner, can be quite affordable. One can even get a very accurate Speed Controlled TT for less money than the cost of an add on ancillary to control speed in a much more expensive TT. One can also get quite affordable Speed Controllers as a DIY Build for differing Motor Drive TT’s. I have had these options built for myself on owned and used TT’s. As well as have a TT with a renowned built in Speed Control from the Manufacturer redesigned as a upgraded Speed Control design. Speed Control when properly working will be very beneficial to increasing the proportion of perception of the Valuable Traits being present. Speed Control when used in conjunction with a Bearing that has been Overhauled, is a combination that has a impact that has left myself, never wanting to return to what was before. The - Dynamics - Micro Details - Attack - Tone - Timbre - Envelope and Coherence - just pop out, this is a attraction to the presentation that is to be maintained. Anything from previous guise is no longer to be put to service, unless as used solely as a comparison demo’. Interestingly, maybe anyways, is that those I know who got over their hostilities to a idea of a bearing overhaul and especially with a focus on the avoidance of metal on metal when reassembled, could not say enough publicly about the good impression made. The Support Structure is a activity of learning that for myself, is another endless journey. As Structure Design and Structure Materials are able to be worked with in differing configurations and exchanges. The perception of the - Dynamics - Micro Details - Attack - Tone - Timbre - Envelope and Coherence are being further defined in ones perception, by the careful selection of a range of materials and design for a supporting structure. I today can quite easily demonstrate, how the removal or exchange of a couple of choice items selected for the structure can with immediacy create the perception a colouration has been added, the tonal frequency has undoubtedly moved. By removal or swapping out certain items in the structure I can easily mask the attractive traits being referred to. There is no shortage of very very positive reports on how a rethink about how a Support Structure is created, has produced a end result that is extremely impressive and is very much wanted to be kept in use. Do I really want a Vinyl Source set up in a way its usage seems compromised, certainly not. Being investigative and adopting methods made known will certainly move a Vinyl Source set up more towards the description of becoming impressive. Tonearms, "Regrets I’ve had a few," (good ole Frank), nearly all TA's in the past 30 years being a design based around a certain geometry, and are a design that are born from plagiarising another’s design. My earlier choices for a TA enabled myself and others to experience my systems capabilities to present the eked out Valuable Traits. It is knowing that quite a few use these TA’s with a design born from being plagiarised set around a particular geometry, that I feel is a fundamental to my making a statement such as: "I do suspect that many users of Vinyl as the Source Medium, settle for an inferior set up, especially one not optimised." My choice of TA in use today, is bespoke produced, and is the design that has enabled all the previous investigative work undertaken to be catapulted to a whole new level of quality and impression made. The new TA is without doubt, very very responsible for the perceivable presence of the valuable traits - Dynamics - Micro Details - Attack - Tone - Timbre - Envelope and Coherence - are there in droves. Demo’s of this latest guise to the set up, and the making it known the TA in use has without doubt, been the tool to bring years of toying with ideas and materials to a new level of performance, has resulted in individuals being at a demo’, having put an order in to have a same TA produced. One individual who purchased as a result of a Demo’, is an Engineer and very adept EE. This new TA acquisition, has been so impressive, the individual become compelled to produce a from scratch built TA design, which now produced, os proving to be an excellent performer and is seemingly only differing in sound quality to the acquired TA, as a result of different materials used for the structure, mechanically they are seemingly a parity in how the perception of being unconstrained. Cart’s and the Mechanical Interface externally and within a Cart’ are always a curiosity to myself, this is one area, where I have to be quite deliberate in how I constrain spending. Kindly offered demo’s are free and usually good friendships have evolved from such new encounters, if a fellow enthusiast is the host. Where next, with all this history of creating different mechanical interfaces and structures to impact on energy transferral to a mechanical interface. More Interface investigation I’m afraid to say ? The use of Vinyl as a source for some, has a parallel energy usage running along side. Where the mechanical requirements are as enjoyed as a subject, as much as the listening to the recorded music. My own personal hierarchy, always has the set aside time to be entertained through listening as the ultimate to be achieved. I know a few who I very much respect, who will spend hours at the Lathe-CNC-Soldering Station and after 30 minutes of listening to very impressive creation, get back to the workbench as their real audio interest. . Panzerholz, Permali is hot as a material, as a material it has revealed itself as being impressive, and one to supersede other selected materials. Especially as a Plinth Material. In use, it has tidied all the Valuable Traits, to the point there is now a detectable precision in how the - Dynamics - Micro Details - Attack - Tone - Timbre - Envelope and Coherence - are being delivered. To my preferences this material has is the ultimate as an attraction. It is strange that the impact is not overly present, but is when experienced in my system and a few others only describable as a night/day difference. Also the Kaneta design for the presently in use TT, both P’holz and P’mali are key to this, where the TT’s metal chassis will be substituted by having a Plinth/Chassis from the above stated materials, nothing new here, just getting on board where those with better knowledge and understanding than my own have gone before. Also Platter design, there is a host of Materials and configurations for this to be put in place as a trial experience. I have a system that is very responsive to changes to a Tonal Frequency and the impact on such a change on how Timbre is perceived. I have a variety of Platter Mats that enable a tuning of the Tonal Frequency, I reduce or introduce Colour as I decide. I also have with this simplistic approach, a means to produce a Timbre that has an honesty as a adjustment that takes seconds, what not to like about that . Further can be done with perception of Tone/Timbre with a umbilical swap at a key interface, if the mood demands it. My extended investigative measures are maybe for some unusual, certainly not oddball, I have not been eccentric or invented anything, or am I using anything not typically selected, even in relation to the likes of densified wood, it is already a product found in commercial ventures for audio equipment. Mycelium as a material is weeks, or Months away to be found in use. I have only experienced many more types of a typically selected material than is usually seen reported on, and can only vouch for my experience had and very little else. As stated, when it comes to sound produced from audio equipment: "I’m not in the support a Vinyl LP Replay Business, there are many with substantial investments getting a satisfying replay. Myself has moved forward of this method. I’m in the whatever it takes to preserve the - Dynamics - Micro Details - Attack - Tone - Timbre - Envelope and Coherence - embedded into a Vinyl LP Recording Business." When such valuable Traits are perceived, other perceptions follow, the Psychoacoustic is able to conjure up fantasy. The Soundstage becomes quite real, the Volume of the Soundstage enlarges, the boundaries of the soundstage seem very distant. The Imagery within the Soundstage seemingly takes on a form that is not only locatable but also can be perceived as being in transit and seems able to be encountered. The Visual and Audible share a similar space, then take a stereo recording made with a QSound Code embedded, the Visual becomes disconcertingly real to the point of creating a reaction from the listener. None of the above very attractive traits will be realised from using a non-optimised set up for a Vinyl Source. |
Has anyone read this review of the Cosmos with TriPlanar arm? The reviewer did not seem to have any issues with the arm. I believe it is the 9.8” version with 250 mm effective length. I bought that Cosmos and I also used a TriPlanar with it. I used a SOTA arm board which brought the base of the tonearm to level with the plinth. I never gave a second thought about the cabling. I thought the Cosmos and TriPlanar sounded good. |
I wondered IF you noticed that glob of cement…. I for one find @pindac a very interesting audiophile and music lover …. bravo |
@lewm It is not my model. It is my test. Freude schoner gotterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feurertruncken, Himmlischer dein Heiligtum:-) |
@neonknight VTF and antiskate not VTA and antiskate. My mistake. @pindac That's it! You are an oddball. Glad you figured that out:-) I was getting worried. @tomic601 The only person more arrogant than you is me:-) The lyra has less needle talk because it has a very small stylus and boron cantilever. It puts less reactive energy into the record. It also has a very lightweight stylus mounting system. If you look at the pictures in the link above you can see it easily. The end of the cantilever is forked and the stylus sits in the interspace between the two prongs. My Sonic Lab uses the same supplier. The MC Diamond and the Soundsmith Hyperion, due to the nature of their cantilevers, have the stylus held on to the end of the cantilever with a big glob of cement. One of the reasons I like vacuum clamping and the Sota is the vacuum clamping effects on record resonance along with the engineering and construction of the Mat and platter. The other advantage is a flat record and pitch stability.
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@neonknight @atmasphere @lewm , I have scoped it out, The problem is the dropped counter weight. It runs into the back of the plinth. Yes it will fit. If you cut the back of the plinth away at the right rear corner behind the tonearm well. You would have to put the cartridge on stilts to get the arm up high enough and you would lose the right rear dustcover hinge. Lew, the record imparts the energy to the stylus which is suspended. Everything below the resonance frequency is passed to the tonearm, everything above the resonance frequency moves the stylus relative to the arm and the reactive forces must be dissipated by the record which also has a resonance frequency depending on the record's thickness and how firmly it is held down. At frequencies higher than the resonance frequency the record sings like the diaphragm in an old Victrola which is what you are hearing which is high treble. If the record is fixed and can not move across it's entire surface that energy is dissipated by the much heavier platter and you hear nothing. Larger, heavier, stylus/cantilever combination put more energy back into the record and the needle talk is louder. |
Pindac, This is an excerpt from your long post about platter mats, above: "The AT -666 Vacuum Mat is the most lean with the Tenuto Gun Metal being Lean, but with a hint of Rich injection if only compared to the 666. Rock, Indie, Country, Americana, Orchestra all come to life with these materials, but this is my unique flavour if choice, as are all my preferences. Another might enjoy the mats capabilities, but prefer different mats to be selected for other genre’s. " This is where I got the idea you might be inclined to change the platter mat to suit the music. Sorry if that upsets you. I certainly didn’t mean to imply that you have a character flaw. I consider myself an oddball for having 5 turntables with 6 tonearms and cartridges up and running into two different systems, at all times. Now THAT is a character flaw of mine. |
Not at any time has been suggested a Platter Mat is a design to favour a Genre of Music. The fact I like a Platter Mat that has a perception of being Lean on my system when in use and is preferred on use with Rock, Indie, etc, is my choice and no way a suggestion towards anything else. Just as I never said a Speaker is favourable to a Genre of music, but did say I favour a Speaker Cabinet to be in use when I listen to Blues. The idea that there is not a taste for a variation of sound as an experience is hilarious, utterly hurting my ribs at the moment, lets all chop the HiFi in and get Alexa. For the Record, all that I offer to others is free, there is no remuneration in mind at all. Certain individuals have been so impressed with a loaned platter mat it has been gifted to them, and others have made their own efforts to purchase a particular type. There are contributors in all forums who are types that have very healthily remunerated themselves with their activities around audio equipment, and as a result think of themselves as a authority. My opinion on this does not matter. What I an sure of, is that there is not one 'know it all' throwing out opinion on a forum, that is going to influence myself, especially when commenting on how I should use my time to generate experiences with and around audio. I will decide what level of Transparency is present and what tools are to be used to maintain this when I get of Bus leaving colouration behind. Nobody else will be making that decision for me.
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@lewm , @mijostyn was spot on with his comments about the platter pad. I’ve been telling people exactly the same thing for years. I didn’t make it up either :) Its not a taste thing as well, since its very easy to know if the platter pad is doing its job as laid out in mijostyn’s post. There’s not taste associated with that, more of a ’yes’ or ’no’ thing. Platter pads cannot be made to favor a certain genre of music any more than a loudspeaker or an amp can.
I know Tri Mai and he’s told me that people do indeed install Triplanars on the Cosmos (I had one myself) so it can be done, albeit with a few spacers.
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Changing a Platter Mat that is a single Mat only from my selection to be used, is quite simple, as they are all between 4.5mm - 5.2mm, no difference to changing an Album or Spindle Weight. Note: I have made it known within this forum I swap out my ESLs to Cabinet Speakers to listen to Blues Music, as I like the Colouration of the Cabinet, it brings back strong memories of when I first was listening to Blues in small venues. Surely of I had the opportunity to further tweak the Richness of Tone to blend the Colouration why not. If I am entertaining guests with listening to the HiFi as the sole agenda, I will certainly select the bulk of the music to work with a Mat I intend on using. If the guests bring a different music type along, I will make it known a different Mat will be potentially a improved experience. As said on other occasion, the listening experience is a activity to entertain, and the value of the sound side of the entertainment is very much aligned to how the individuals Amygdala is stimulated by specific sound and is producing chemicals that are rewarding as a stimulus. In the same manner I understand other stimulus, I have developed a n understanding of this one to, and how mood/feeling can be changed by minute changes to the sound being produced. The listening experience impact on a person, extends far beyond the sound arriving within the ear, it is totally associated with the hierarchy of Wellbeing and Mind, Body, Spirit. . |
The needle talk test is one variable of many how i and a few others have arrived at the Triplaner / Lyra combination…. Of course…i’m not so arrogant ( well maybe )… to suggest it is the only way…. in fact, my ancient Dynavector probably equals it in that singular aspect…. Always good to check in with the OP…. are we helping any ? |
I would think that the cartridge itself is vibrating secondary to the movements of the cantilever. Not all that energy is delivered into the vinyl; what you are hearing is sound created directly by movement of air molecules because of motion of the cantilever. Of course it’s going to be more or less evident, depending upon the compliance of the cartridge, the effective mass of the tonearm, the composition of the body of the cartridge, and the degree to which energy is transmitted into the arm wand and thereby nullified. What energy is delivered into the vinyl to be absorbed by the mat is what’s left. So, while I don’t doubt that there are differences in the intensity of the "music" you can hear with your ear close to the LP, I do doubt that it is all about the record mat. (By the way, this one reason I avoid dust covers while playing LPs; that energy put into the surrounding air by the cartridge gets trapped and can cause resonating of the dust cover. But let’s not re-hash that argument.) |
@pindac see my note to Lewm above. I want you to turn the gain on your microphone preamp up all the way and make a recording of the needle talk of each mat doing the 9th and we'll figure out which one is best. |
@lewm I can only make rules for myself. No one else has to listen. Simple test. Turn off all the fans and the refrigerator and put on the forth movement of Beethoven's 9th. If you hear needle talk from one foot out you need to change something to do with your turntable. You'll have to figure it out:-) |
Frank Schroder is a watch maker. All the adjustments on are simple and very effective. You have to have a light touch with everything. Each cartridge gets a mounting plate which is marked for location with a very sharp awl. With the scale on the side of the VTA post and my marked mounting plates I just have to worry about VTA and anti skate. It takes me maybe ten minutes to change cartridges. The first set up of any cartridge is always a bit tedious, but I also view the stylus under high magnification and I will snap lines on all the right angles and make sure they are in tolerance. Here are some pictures.
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I am a Platter Mat Hoarder, I have approx' 20, which os not a brag, it is a resulkt of a long-term of collecting of which I have listed the material types on this forum on a few occasions. Today I have broke into a delivered package and now have another Metal Platter Mat to add to the metal selections to be made for Mats. This new metal mat is a Micro Seiki Duraluminium, it is a much more substantial weight than the AT 677, but not coated in a coating like the AT - 677 Technihard. I have after endless trials found 4 x Mats Types with a total of 7 x Mats that work in a very similar manner at preserving the Dynamics - Micro Details - Attack - Tone - Envelope and Coherence. Between the 7 x Mats, to my ear, it is extremely difficult to detect a loss of any of the above referred to valuable traits. I can adopt another Mat/Material and immediately detect a substantial loss to these most valuable traits presence, with the result being that perceiving the loss can become a very real detractor and unwanted listening experience. Fortunately an easy fix is at hand. I do suspect that many users of Vinyl as the Source Medium, settle for an inferior set up, especially one not optimised. I state not optimised as a result of the outcome of my loans of Mats, which for those that have received them have been exposed to a revelation. For the most of these die hard Vinyl users who have taken the time to experience these new encounters, they are jaw drop impressed. When they are further encouraged to play with the VTA for each Mat, the report back makes it sound like they have a new TT in the house of substantially more cost. Not bad as an outcome from a bit of time set aside to make the most of a Free Mat Loan and a little play with a TA's VTA. It is very easy to lose the very important traits able to be produced from a replay, when having a Mat Material in use that is not an optimised substrate to work in a particular and unique environment, endless toying with VTA and other Cart' geometries will not optimise the set up, the interface of the LP to the TT must be optimised to the unique environment. The best on offer without optimisation will be music being replayed Hoo Rah, that is the Goal and possibly a Coherence of the presented sound that has an attraction. There is much more that can be realised, but I will not suggest to anybody where they should get off the bus. My choice selection of Mats are today, used for creating Tonal Richness. The AT -666 Vacuum Mat is the most lean with the Tenuto Gun Metal being Lean, but with a hint of Rich injection if only compared to the 666. Rock, Indie, Country, Americana, Orchestra all come to life with these materials, but this is my unique flavour if choice, as are all my preferences. Another might enjoy the mats capabilities, but prefer different mats to be selected for other genre's. The AT-677 has a Rich Tone when compared to the above. When the 677 is compared to the following types it is the least Rich, but not what I will call Lean in Tone, it has taken on roots. This is wonderful on Female Vocals and Piano or Jazz, but adds something of an alternate attraction to the above genre's. The AT 600 is used both Singular and Stacked, It gives an immediate perception of a Rich Tone, Notes and Vocals are noticeably underpinned with a extra depth. A foundation is now detectable. I do believe a Newplast Modellers Putty used to bond the two stacked 600's will give a much deeper sense of the foundation, but if the important traits diminish, there is no value to be had in my assessment. This would be more in keeping with what I will refer to as the experiences being had by many. The music and listener really do come to life when all the valuable traits are laid out in front of the listening position. The 600 is wonderful on Female Vocals and Piano or Jazz. 5mm Forex Foam ( Cheap as Chips/Fries) what a material, plenty of Richness to be perceived in relation to the AT -677 and a few increments more into the ground than the AT 600. Forex is my most preferred Mat for Chicago Blues and all copycat performers. In with this mixture of Mats I have a OEM Platter, a SS Platter and a Phosphor Bronze Platter, along with Spindle weights in differing materials up to 1Kg. Do I take Platter Material, Platter Mats and Spindle Weight seriously? No! No! No! I'm a bit loke McD's when stated were not in the Burger Business, were a Real Estate Company. I'm not in the support a Vinyl LP Business, I'm in the whatever it takes to preserve the - Dynamics - Micro Details - Attack - Tone - Envelope and Coherence - Business. No point in owning a Cart' costing $$$$'s if it is the most expensive smearing tool that one can afford, avoid such pointless squander of ones monies, it will be better to buy into the Cheapest Smearing Cart' on the Market. The listener fatigue and discontent will settle in at the same rate for each Cart'. I wonder how the New Mat will fit in ? I wonder how a few different stacked permutations will present ? I wonder If I have to start from scratch on the Kaneta Design ? 😉 I'm glad to have adopted TT's with designs and Drives that allow me to use all weights and configurations for Platter, Mats and Weights. |
@mijostyn I have a Schroder CB-1L with ebony wand on my Scheu table. I love the performance of the arm, and despise it's adjustment settings. It is criminal how primitive the counterweight setting, VTA, and antiskate adjustments are. I loathe installing a cartridge on it. |
@pindac I think good platters can be made of many different materials. Of greater importance is the quality of the bearing and the interface between the record and the platter. To pass energy to the platter efficiently the mat has to have the same mechanical impedance as vinyl and the record has to be glued to the mat along it's entire playing surface and the mat glued to the platter. In this way the platter captures the opposing forces created by the stylus bouncing around with the groove. With a good cartridge and arm there should be no, or almost no needle talk. This is one of the hallmarks of a great record playing system. If you hear needle talk with your ear one foot away from the stylus tracking the record you have work to do. I have never listened to a turntable that I could not hear needle talk with an ear 4" from the stylus tracking the record. It should however be very faint. |