Question for cable/wire naysayers.....

Glad to see all the positive responses.  I feel the same as what I've read here but I posted this to offer a forum to speak out against the "supposed" benefits of upgrading cables.  Seems like in every post I've read lately someone has to chime in that cables don't make a difference, outlets don't make a difference, fuses.....   Please, would any of you naysayers offer your insights as to why you believe so.  Speak up!   Your unwelcome comments compromise many an otherwise interesting and helpful post asking for genuine advice.

Ok,  here is the deal.   At a certain price range cables do sound different.  They are designed to be "different" but different does not translate into better or worse sound.  The trick is finding a set that sounds good to you.  Since every set of ears, every audio system, and every room is unique, there is a good chance that six audiophiles will have three opinions regarding your cable selection.  Find something you like and enjoy.

The snake oil comments, in general, start when prices climb to the absurd levels we see in this hobby.   Remember,  expensive may not be better to your ears, system, room, etc.

If blind tests routinely dismiss the top and bottom performers, then those conclusions might apply to the general population, but not to us. Because we probably hear better than the general population.

This is a real problem when interpreting scientific results - unless a reviewer understands the statistics and the methodology, he might not understand the study.

And, bdp, you are absolutely right when you say that someone who identifies 10 out of 10 is unlikely to be doing it by random selection. In fact, it is highly significant - at the 0.001 level (it’s a binomial distribution with 1 way to be dead right, and 1023 ways to be right less often).

The chemical in corked wine is TCA and it is absolutely measurable by scientific methods. Some people like my wife are very sensitive to it. 
As to cables of course they sound different the question is does the material and technology substantiate some of the absurd prices being asked?

if the routinely found "hot deals" section of Audiogon is any indication the answer is no! No other type of equipment is so routinely and frequently discounted at such rates. 

Sure cablex sound different for very good reasons as already stated but the sale of them is pure snake oil!

Exactly, Atl.

I say, start cheap, and only buy other cables if they prove, in your system, to be better. A lesson from wine transfers nicely to audio: one doesn't taste the label. Nor does an audiophile hear it.

Paul, what are naysayers universally saying? 

Are they saying that *all* cables will work the *exactly* same? That's not generally how the argument goes, but more of one critical of exotic and boutique, high-priced cables justifying their premium price point.

Also, if I use cables which are $5 radio shack blister pack, and plug in $1300 plugs and prefer the $1300 plugs, should I immediately assume I HAVE to pay $1300 to receive that benefit?

Yeah, if the naysayers believe the earth is flat, you're not going to convince them otherwise. They've been told a million times to just listen and they'll hear the difference. If they won't, well, why waste your time? You're just upsetting yourself and them. I must admit that, while I don't form opinions about things I don't know about or about which I haven't investigated or educated myself, I was very skeptical, until I LISTENED. I recently bought demo KEF X300A wireless speakers, and slightly upgraded the two standard USB cables, and even I, Mr. "I'm not spending a ton of money on something so stupid" heard the difference. I'm convinced, and I'm now spending about $1,300.00 retail (not exactly a "ton" of money" on "hi-end" cables for my new NAD M32/Focal Aria 936 speakers system. :-)

Simply put, all speaker wires can sound different when either resistance, capacitance, or inductance is changed. However there's no secret sauce to obtain whatever signature sound any cable allows which justifies exotic prices.

https://gizmodo.com/305549/james-randi-offers-1-million-if-audiophiles-can-prove-7250-speaker-cables...

Actually the science shows that cables should sound different. At its simplest a cable has resistance, capacitance and inductance. These values are different for various cables. Introduce these different characteristics between two pieces of equipment and you will get differences in sound. I have consistently passed double blind tests with cables. By the way DB tests in audio have many problems which the literature shows
Alan

+1 on not all ears being equal.

Consider something from a different domain: smell.

There have been scientific studies of people coming into a test room and either smelling something unpleasant or not smelling anything at all. It runs at about a 50/50 split.

The human nose is capable of detecting a certain bacteria in "corked" wine at a level of about 3 parts per billion. I don't think this is instrument measurable yet. That's a pretty sensitive instrument.

A good sense of smell can detect up to about 10,000 unique smells. Most people are in the 4000 to 6000 range.

In my view, these differences in one sense raise lots of questions about other senses, including hearing. I've gone back and forth on this topic with cables, sometimes convinced there's clear difference in cables, sometimes not. Recently I compared some DH Labs Q10 to some Monoprice Nimbus 14 AWG cable, and after a number of close listening tests, decided that they sounded the same to me. But there's no way that I can conclude what any other cable does or doesn't sound like based on these results, nor what anyone else would think after doing the same comparison.

Most definitely, YMMV.

Then there is the issue of not all ears being equal. Just as in all other human endeavors, training and experience matter. As Michael Fremer has reported, when the results of blind tests come in, the very top and bottom performers in a group are "thrown out", the former being cited as an aberration. In a group of 10 listeners, 8 of them may score in the middle----half correct answers (or guesses ;-), half incorrect---one below that, and one above. If one listener identifies 10 out of 10 correctly, it’s a pretty good bet he really does hear a difference, yet his result is dismissed. Even if it weren’t, in the field of scientific study, 10 out of 10 is not considered statistically significant. Who cares?!

Totally agree nonoise   👍👍

@tls49 
That's the science part that never enters into the naysayers argument.
An article I read stated that human hearing is 10X more sensitive than previously thought and that was discovered about 8 years ago. It had something to do with fourier transform and how we mere humans can tell if something is off to a degree that is basically unmeasurable.

Thank you evolution,
Nonoise

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion and sometimes when I hear people talking about measurements with test equipment, I wonder if the ear may actually be superior to that test equipment. The ear is more sensitive than some people realize.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Sound/earsens.html

Naysayers naysay on a lot more topics than this particular one. Naysaying is built into their personality and it is as simple as that. Nothing wrong with that or them, but it must be understood. Beyond that what @geoffkait said above is certainly true at the same time.

Or maybe like opening a can of worms from the bottom.

😂

@lcherepkai - i didn't mean to imply that you're just stirring the pot but that the responses you'll get will be of the garden variety polemics that have yet to hold up to scrutiny. 

Trust in your own ears and most assuredly, trust that naysayers will never believe you.

All the best,
Nonoise

The scientist in me then asks first, have you equalized levels to within 0.2 dB (you need a volt meter for that), and second, did you do the listening double blind? If not, your experiences  are just that: impressions rather than facts. And I have to insist on serious listening test methodology because the physics that is supposed to underpin many claims that cables matter a lot would be a real breakthough worth a Nobel Prize. Why not publish that in Nature etc?

Thanks for the responses so far.  I'm not trying to stir the pot if you mean start a fight.  I really want to know if the naysayers believe that cables/wire make no difference.  In my early audio years, I firmly believed it was just hype or snake oil, another way for the companies to make even more money off of us.  And if you've limited yourself to experiencing the bottom rung like Radio Shack or Phoenix Gold, then surely the notion that cables can have a significant effect on sound would seem delusional.  Of course, I'm sure that Geoffkait is right in that some naysayers are just trying to get a rise from those of us who know what a profound role cables play in sound quality.  I can say, without a hint of doubt, that my musical enjoyment (from my system) is largely due to the addition of high quality cables.  I'd never have heard all that subtle but important inner detail that makes the music so alive if I were still using stock cables and cords.  That just my 2cents.

"As much as I appreciate the OP's approach, this will end up like stirring the pot in the opposite direction: the end result will be the same."

Or maybe like opening a can of worms from the bottom.

As much as I appreciate the OP's approach, this will end up like stirring the pot in the opposite direction: the end result will be the same.

People take naysayers so seriously. They just want to have some fun. They could care less about cables. 

Move on folks, nothing to see here.