BTW John,I just want to emphasize that I "DO" believe your observations!!
I have always been a bit too analytical,and know it is not always a good thing.I doubt if I'll change,but definitely....sometimes you just have to go with simple observations!Here,your observations should be irrefutable,based on your experience in the hobby..
Btw,one thing I am "just a touch" sceptical about is the dismissal of the IC-70,as not being a very good performer.I previously did a controlled comparison of "it" against the Venustas,with two other serious LP collector/hobbyists present.The IC-70 clearly was the superior cable(to all of us),in "that" set up.....(yet,I am very interested in always "considering" the best way to "protect" the "tiny signal",from a good cartridge,so I remain open,and interested in ALL opinions).
You definitely have good "cred" here.Too bad I don't have too much discretionary income lying around....It's ALL been going to the Oil Companies....The bastards!! -:)
I'm not at all trying to be defensive here....just schmoozing the hobby,on a hot,slow day in July!
Anxiously awaiting the opening of the new X-Files movie tomorrow!!...My boring,but somewhat fun existance!
Enjoy your great sound! |
Dear John(I "had to say that-:),you are absolutely correct!!
Like I said,I know nothing about cable design,but am very good at bloviating...I set up a nice arm/cartridge too,but after that "nada" -:)
Thanks for the enjoyable responses |
Sirspeedy - I would not be too focused on materials, i.e., silver is good and gold is bad. The Jade Hybrid IC which uses a combination of these materials is an exemplary performer unlike any other IC I have tried. And another IC I tried at the same time that used both materials was a major disappointment. Implementation is clearly a factor.
Your report above indicates that the Hyperphono uses a 50/50 of these materials.....and yet, well. ..... I've already reported my comparative observations on the Hyperphono vs. the IC-70. 8-)
John |
Great that you guys are so happy!I hope to be on target soon,myself.
Just some thoughts,and believe me I know "nothing" about cable design....
From what I have read,silver is the best conductor of electricity.Gold apparently is NOT so hot,from what Bob Graham told me.
Now this "single crystal copper" stuff seems to be "viable" for it's own benefits(and voicing),especially after Purist,then, gives it's "solid core stuff"(I believe "strands" have their own less than SOTA issues,from my research) three cryo treatments,in the Proteus.Then,also in the case of the Proteus,there is aside from the superb shielding, another seemingly good idea,in the liquid damping used.I can see a VERY QUIET signal carrying ability,which so we are told,gives superior "music signal"! Am I on track,so far?
I like the idea of the liquid damping(I "think" it shields too)if I am thinking it through properly(I could easily be off here),as it would damp out external resonance,and allow all of the "tiny" signal characteristics to come through.Since here we are talking about millivolts.Hope I'm on track with this way of "assuming" things.
So,though the Stealth Hyper Phono utilizes SOTA construction techniques,it still uses a combo of 50% silver(very good)with 50% gold(not the best conductor).We already know copper is a very good conductor,but a little warmer than silver,which is quite good,from my own experience with the "better than you might think" IC-70.
As much as I like to view things,the Proteus still comes from a royal family heritage,when it comes to taking technology to the max!
Of course you simply have to hear this stuff for yourself,and my bloviating should mean absolutely nothing!!!Yet this is "the" forum to have "hobby speak" so what the heck....I'm beginning to like the Proteus,as "supposedly" the cable to hear,as of now...It is obtainable,at least.
Of course,since I am on the cusp of "finally" getting my system up again(don't even ask...you'd not believe it),I'm going to let the dust settle,and I DO get superb results from my IC-70.But I have always felt the entire phono link was a dorrway into my system,which is incredibly revealing.
This "new" cable talk relates to my Venustas owning friend,who is on the fence about a new cable.....Previously my little "pushes" have been influential in helping hime to spend his money,AND giving me "new" insights -:)...He won't need a big shove this time.That I know,from our last conversation.
This will definitely happen again...and probably in the early fall....Hmm!
Best to all. |
Sirspeedy:
Still LOVIN the Proteus.
I have made a number of changes in the last 2 weeks. Wilson Maxx 2 for WP 8's, Nagra VPS for BAT VKP10SE superpak and today new Tung-sol 6sn7's and 6v6's in my BAT amps... |
Sirspeedy....The Hyperphono is a fabulous product indeed. I'd be willing to bet that the Graham 2.2/Hyperphono could match and possibly outperform the Phantom/IC-70 in many ways. When you hear the clarity brought on by the Hyperphono, the result is dramatic rather than subtle. There's no going back.
As for the Hyperphono not being made any longer, I do not know but the only way to find out is to email Stealth and find out. I saw one sell a few weeks ago for $1800 and I almost bought it for my 2nd tonearm here. But I resisted as I am having a Counterpoint SA-2 getting a major overhaul.
John |
Jafox,I've been doing some research,awaiting the "near closure"(finally) of my component issues(I should be "way" ahead,sonically,of where I started,if I've done my homework correctly,and have my fingers crossed).
Yes,the Stealth looks to be a "fabulous" product.I DO see where the little things,in the design,can "really" benefit a high res set-up!
The web pages referring to the difference between sensitivity of a phono interconnect vs a line level interconnect is eye opening,and thought provoking!!
My "Venustas" pal(who is on the fence regarding a new/improved phono cable) will most likely be looking at the Proteus,and the Zero One,but I've got to "pitch" the Stealth you mention,and let him make the choice(with my independant "influence",ahem,ahem -:)....Only problem is,I don't believe it is made any longer.
Is this the case?
Also,Jfrech...still loving the Proteus?
Best |
Here's my hesitation,in recommending ANY phono cable,as "written in stone"....
I've already compared the superb Venustas with a fully broken in IC-70,at a friend's home.
There were other "experienced" ears present.The IC-70 was far from defficient to us,and as a matter of fact clearly outperformed the Venustas in dynamics,and bass(at the time).It was equal in virtually any other area,and seemed more open as well.
Yet,it seems this is a touchy subject,and with the extreme pricing of cabling,you simply have to tread carefully!Partnering equipment,and personal tastes really are a factor!
Since the original comparison,the Venustas has broken in,and though we haven't bothered(it "IS" a bother,btw)to re-check our initial findings,the "V" does sound damn good in my friend's set-up.Mainly because his set-up is SO damn good,in the first place!!
As to the Stealth,I have NO doubt it is a good cable,but after viewing the all too common high pricing on their site,it is just becomming too much to keep abreast(from an interest standpoint)of all the competition!Then there's the "Zero One"...Faggedaboutit!!!....This is exactly where the "OLD TAS would have come in!!Not gonna happen again,sadly!!
Purist "IS" a well known name,and we already know the Venustas is very good,so the Proteus is to be considered,by some(not me,btw).Actually a close friend,who is a bit obsessed.
What can I say?I'll be happy to simply spin vinyl again when my pre/phono comes back,with the new V-Teflon caps,I'm having installed!...But by "then",there will be new/better updates....NO?
Best |
Thanks JFrech for the update. The veiling was indeed my experience with the Venustas and Dominus phono cables but the midrange bloom was great....especially with the Dominus. But once I auditioned the Stealth Hyperphono, it was very clear how dated these two Purist cables were. The Stealth made me aware of so much more clarity and extension and silence between the notes. I was stunned by how poorly the Purist cables sounded when I went back to the Dominus for one last listen. It sounds like the new Purist would be worthy of an audition.
Sirspeedy: I had the IC-70 for a month several months ago. This was a major disappointment as I had high hopes for this cable. Compared to the less costly Silver Audio Silver Breeze, the IC-70 was grainy, dimensionally flat and had a mediocre extension on top. It was a no-go with the Graham 2.2 and Zeta with Clearaudio Accurate, Koetsu RWS and a high output Sumiko Virtuoso. Like I said, quite a disappointment. If you have a friend with deep pockets, I suggest that the two of you give the Stealth a listen. I saw one sell here last week for $1900. It appears that this is inline with the cost of a new Provectus. This would be a worthwhile cable shootout one of these days.
John |
Hey,Jfrech....Funny thing is....some years back I was working for a corp that had it's training fascility in Austin....As a consequence,the mayor gave all of the 'trainees"(myself included)a KEY to the city of Austin.
I never knew what to do with it -:)
Best |
Sirspeedy: you know I've been thinking (and listening :) re: my 3-4x comment. 2.5-3x is easily correct. 4x is just excitement on my part.
Not sure this changes much, but just thought I'd reply here.
Thanks, if you ever make it to Austin, stop by! |
Yes,it helps and will be much appreciated by a close friend,with deep pockets,and a non stop quest for the "N'th" degree of fabulosity! -:)
Enjoy your great stuff |
Hi it was the only change (so far- I have new speakers on the way).
I had both the Venustas and Proteus together for about 3 weeks. The Venustas sold recently. Went back and forth between the V and PP a few times. Even with the Proteus Provectus, brand new, unbroken in, and within 45 min off the fed ex truck it sounded better. I knew in the first 10 seconds it was special. A few weeks more it has just opened up more and improved. I suspect over a few more months it may improve/break in slightly more.
I have also heard this phono cable in another system. While I can't judge exactly on that system, the spatial clues and clarity are common signatures. He is also using a SME arm, so maybe some synergy their as well.
So, back to synergy, I am sure some of this is my system synergy. I have all 20th Anniverary, Dominus Ferrox, downstream. And any change at the front end is just magnified in my system. I think this was my "weakest link" at the moment that I fixed and allowed my system to perform at a much higher level.
Proteus Provectus is about $4k list in the din to rca version I have.
This is my opinions and everyone has their own. But I honestly love this phono cable. It's not big and heavy like the Dominus or 20th anniversary, very slightly larger that the Venustas, about the same weight.
Hope that helps a bit... |
Jfrech,I was wondering if your thoughts are "solely" for the difference between the Venustas and new Proteus,"or" did any other changes to the set up come with the addition of the new phono cable?....Also,what is the exact cost of the Proteus phono(RCA connectors)......Btw,"3-4x the cable" is alot!!!Are you sure this cable is 300-400% better than the already superb "V"?
If so,that would certainly be great.At the very least,it would mean there is a phono cable to really(legitimately)push the "more common standards",like the Venustas and IC-70 which I am very familiar with.
Too many fine looking(on paper) new tech/expensive phono cables are talked about,in industry mags/web-sites,but not auditioned by legit hobbyists like yourself.To me,your previous track record,in posts,gives you very good credibility.
I ask this,not to question your fine posting,but because I have a close friend(owning the Venustas)who would be very interested in the comparison,as long as "nothing" else in your system changed....Informative post,nevertheless.
Best |
I have had this cable now for a few weeks. I burned it in with a spiffy rca to din adapter using the Purist enhancer CD for about 150 hours alternating between the purist cd and music for that time period. At least another 150 now on music via the cartridge. I may still have some breakin to go, but think I have 95% of it.
This is a MUCH improved cable over the Venastus. And again, the Venastus is still a killer cable. The Proteus Provectus is about twice the price and about 3-4x the cable.
All my comments above stand. Dynamics, transparency, significant clarity gain, tonally I don't notice it be skewed one way or the other than venastas. I also don't hear the fluid signature vs ferrox like I can with the dominus fluid vs dominus ferrox (fluid being super in the mids, ferrox being super at the extremes). It's just right.
When I say clarity, it's like I had a vieled distortion, not in the back ground, just on the music signal. It just connects me much closer to the instuments. The sense of placement in on the soundstage is eerily real. I can hear each instrument, again that clarity word comes to mind.
It's delicate, it's powerful, precise, simply conveys what's on the record.
If you have a Venastas arm cable, this is a great step up. Not a single reservation. If you have a different arm cable the Venastas or Proteus Provectus are killer good...just more money gets more. |
Thank you everyone for your answers. I will stay with my Venustas for the moment. You are right, this is a very expensive upgrade. |
Jloveys...you're stuck with it. Purist has in the past ran specials - I think they took their Colossus Series one for series 2. The upgrade was quite expensive though. I would say that only Audiogon would be a good place to get rid of it. |
Does Purist have an upgrade marketing policy, swapping for example Venustas for Provectus, having to pay just the price difference between them, or if I make the upgrade I have to sell my Venustas myself ? My dealer does not do it, because it has DIN connection and he says it is difficult to resale. Same in US ? |
Jloverys,be careful,or you'll find yourself with a "not so nice" web-stalker,in Audiofeil...just looking to spew crap at a whim,for lack of better things to do,and not giving a damn about anything but a good ha-ha.Like when we were in grade school....I speak from experience.
Best |
Audiofeil, I just realised that you are selling these cables and give rave review of them on your ad here in Audiogon ??? Do you sell also HD TV's ? :-) |
Please compare apples with apples. We are comparing different products of the same brand. I am not willing to compare a Ferrari with a Honda Civic, both great cars but for different situations! |
With great products it is often a love or hate story. I love Purist, the sound they make puts a smile on my face and toe tapping. I enjoy more the music and that's what this whole passion is about. And I feel it is closer to real performance than any other cable. Matter of taste, anyway...
Jfrech, your first impressions seem to be very positive, and I am sure that upgrading from Venustas to Proteus must be as big improvement as upgrading from a very good cartridge to a top flight cartridge. I am very impatient to read your objective report after cable burnin ( approx 150 hours ). |
Cables are system and listener dependent.
Big name/high price wires don't necessarily work for everybody.
This seems to be satisfactorily documented as inexpensive cables, e.g. Anti Cables, Signal Cable, etc., appear to work quite well in lower cost systems and/or when users have yet to develop more sophisticated listening skills.
Bottom line is buy/use what pleases your ears and to hell with what anybody else thinks.
Use the money not spent on expensive/big name cables for an HD television and some cartoon DVD's. |
...just my observation.... Purist cables have a fake sound. They are very "delicious"... great big soundstage (whether the recording was recorded that way or not).. rolled off highs, a kind of phasey sound, etc. It reminds me of how cartoons look on hi-def tv's.. lots of bam, but not real. |
Well, my Purist Proteus Provectus Tonearm Cable showed up via fed ex yesterday afteroon. 24 hours of burn in via cd (special lil adaptor, rca=>din makes this easy). Used about 12 hours of Purist burn in cd and 12 hours of misc cd music.
Listening to it right now. The cable is NOT fully burned in, I know I have about 100-200 more hours at least.
And remember, I LOVED my Purist Venustas Tonearm cable. I had a entire system wired with Transparent Ref w XL. And a Hovland Music groove about 4-5 years ago. My first piece of Purist wire was the Venustas Tonearm cable. That one piece of wire caused me to flip all my Transparent cable and fully wire my system with Purist. I now have all 20th Anniversary power cords, 20th Anniv/Dominus Ferrox/Opis interconnect, and Dominus (octerita sp?) Ferrox speaker cables. The Venustas tonearm cable stayed for the whole journey.
Until yesterday...
My my. And I know I have (a lot) more burn in/improvement to go. It's like I got rid of distortion I never knew I had. And the spacial presentation you can sense the movement(much more real). And dynamics...
Stay tuned, maybe give me about 2-3 more weeks to report more...
There is NOTHING wrong with the Venustas tonearm cable it is still wonderful. But for more money.... |
Hit the painful point, Sirspeedy ! I knew that my speakers where rolled off in high frequencies and that Magico Mini are a solution to this, so if Venustas are awesome on your friend system, I just have to sell my car to buy them !!! |
Jloveys,my friend has the Venustas arm cable,on a Graham Phantom/Transfig Orpheus.Running Magico Minis,which go "way out there" in high freq....There is No drop off/softening,or treble shyness in the high freq, in his set-up.The Venustas does a superb job there,yet we are always digesting the particular attributes of the new arm cables appearing on the scene...
But to pull the trigger,and replace something that is known to perform well is taking a chance.Especially with all the hype in the high "end game"! |
