Guys, I have had my DS for about a week and a half. Those of you worried about returning it after 30 days because of not enough burn in time? You don't have to worry about that at all. Trust me its just not something that will come up from the first time you hear it in your own system. A pure non factor IMHO...
For me I could care less about what is said about a system in a room with all kinds of other people all squished in with an unfamiliar, complementing system and in a non treated, strange room. If we know anything we know this is less than ideal. Sure, when no other info is available then it is better than nothing but not what a decision can be based on. Al least not on this unit IMO.
When you get this DAC and plug it into your system, in your special - dear room, with your hard sought after, trial and error based years of rewarding work finding just the very right speaker cables, with beautifully matching and complimenting expensive interconnects, power cables for each and every component that purposely compliment and play off one an another, with your creamy and detailed preamp that you can't live without and most importantly your painstaking chosen and beloved speakers you will then know instantly the very first second the switch is flipped and it is turned on that it is a keeper and a special a piece.
All the marketing and hype and all that? Who cares that's the business side of things. If I was worried about the business side of things would I really be spending $60k on a stereo system. I don't think so but maybe I am wrong. This DAC was bam, right upside the head. It was for me anyways. I was like, nice.... that is what I was hoping for... Actually it may even be a little better than I had hoped for as I am already getting JADED as I tempered my expectations quite a bit. Which by the way is not a bad idea in this love/hate hobby of ours. I listened the first second, minute I turned it on. No I was not scared to do that. Why, I paid for it with my money that I worked for. Was it better 3-4 hours later? It was... Was it better after running all night and day after work the next day? It was. How about after 30 - 40 hours was it quite a bit better still? Ya I would say it was... What can I tell you? Right out of the box it wasn't laid back at all. It was thin and not real sure footed but it was still special. No idea where that laid back sound has come from. Really, this DAC? We all hear/see/like/perceive things differently so I am not to judge but I just don't hear it and I have listened for hours and hours and hours to all kinds of music. As you all know the rest of ones system has a little to say about things such as laid backness (not a word but you get the point)? Wouldn't you guys agree that the old little things like pre/amp/cables/speakers sort of can have some impact on the SQ character of a single piece in a system.
Ok, I am not going to get into describing all the HI's -Mid's- Lows, Imaging ,Transparency, PRAT, coherence etc, etc. for the reasons the rest of ones system may have on it but I will tell you what I think of this DAC? This DAC is flat out amazing and it is changing quite a bit in front of my eyes/ears. Developing, growing, extending, tightening and actually physically evolving and not in a really subtle way either. No way this DAC would be sent back after 30 days. I wouldn't have sent mine back after 30 seconds. Lets talk about the MKII that I owned before it and liked very much. I really did and I genuinely thought it was a very nice sounding DAC that I was quite happy with. Like all of us I always want better but I liked the MKII DAC quite a bit.
Is it better than the MKII? Yes it is. Is it way better than the MKII. Yes it is. Is it Absolutely in a total other league and utterly and blatantly - ridiculously better than the MKII. Yes it is IMO. I liked the MKII but to put in simple coffee drinker terms. The MKII is sweet n low and the DS is pure sugar. Not a fair comparison really. If someone really wants to return one of these then they should just stick with Vinyl because no DAC will work for them. Is this DAC better than the top flight, true hi-end vinyl rigs? No,of course not. They cost 5 times as much and I am talking about DACs here not analogue. DACs are DACs... Moreover, is It is better than the $20k - $30k DACS? I doubt it why would it be? I never heard any of those in my system so I am just guessing here but wouldn't expect it to be better than those. In this hobby not always but many times long doe by you long SQ... As far as this $6k DAC goes it is a special one and a no-brainer keeper. |
Erikminer,Tonyptony,Kernelbob Thank you for your comments.
Sabai, You've got to order one.
Fsmithjack, Thank you for your impressions. My DS unit is on the Fed Ex truck for todays delivery. Have you by chance tried it direct to an Amp? I think that's where I will start. |
Ozzy,
I intend to place my order once I get the budget together later in the year. |
Well, I just plugged in the PS Audio Direct Stream direct for the first time direct into my Pass Labs X350.5 Amp.
First impression... Not much, very closed in soundstage, and limited upper frequencies.
I don't see how anyone could think this unit is great straight out of the box.
I sure hope this "ugly duckling" gets better. I have a Purist burn in disc that I will play for the next few days, and I will check it every so often. |
I don't see how anyone could think this unit is great straight out of the box. I noted the things the DS did "better" when I first turned it on, but I wasn't ready to throw out the parts to my PWD Mk.II. Believe me it took as long as I indicated before I felt like the nasty bits were gone. During burn in of any component I use the "short sessions with long waits in between" approach so I don't fool myself by just getting used to how something sounds. I also use something else (in this case my TT) as a known standard against which to judge any changes. One other thing. The DS is (IME) very sensitive to the matching ICs. I discovered the ones which worked perfectly with my PWD were not a good match with the DS. You may need to be prepared to experiment. |
With respect IMO this like many components are at their best used with other complimenting, synergistic matching components if one has high resolution speakers. Bottom line is I don't think this DAC or any DAC out there at any price point and at any point of breaking is going to make a hi-end premium preamp obsolete and even not really preferred.
I can tell you with my system with my DACs I have secret weapon that I tried back when I owned my Ayre QB-9 that I now find I can't live w/out and I have tried to get rid of and can't. It just makes any digital SS piece DAC/CDP sound so so so much better. Every time I try get it out of my system and do an A/B comparison it's just too good and I can't remove it and it is not expensive, only about $500.00. I use a Cathode follower after my DAC/CDP that sort of turns my DS into a hybrid Tube DAC. Basically it is like installing a Tube output Stage onto your SS DAC that has a variable Gain trim pot to control volt gain (1v to 5v gain) to tailor to your piece perfectly. Many modders out there will add this exact type tube output stage mod and hardwire it into the CDP directly and set the preferred voltage gain and it is a gigantic upgrade. It can make a mid-fi CDP player sound great. Modders have been using this same type of tube output stage for years. Well what I use is the same thing but it is in its own box which keeps noise floor down, can just be unhooked, has its own tube, power supply, power cord and 1v to 5v gain adjustments. You can turn the volts all the way up to 5v and turn your preamp down to build pressure and change the depth of the center image or adjust bass, etc, etc. I just can't live without it and sorry for long post but if you add one of these to your DS you will see why out of the box for me it sound so great to my ears. This Tube output stage makes a big impact and it is cheap.
I was told to try it back when I was running an Ayre QB-9 and I was blown away by the gigantic SQ increase and been stuck with it ever since. It is made by Decware and called with ZSTAGE. There is also a non gain changing version but the one with gain is way better as I own both. In my system I use i put it about 3/4 up or 3.5v of gain and it hooks in right after my DS DAC between my DAC and my CAT SL-1 Signature MK III preamp. Just thought you guys may like the mod idea that wonders for me. Thanks |
Tonyptony, Your break in method sounds like a good idea, I will follow that.
My interconnects are the HiDiamond XLR3's. I do have others but at this time (low hours) I will keep everything as is until I have more hours on it.
Fsmithjack, Thank you for your response. I had an APL Dac a few years back that lots of posters swore by using it direct to an Amp. With that Dac, I tried it direct but eventually I went back to a preamp. So, the DS may also prove to need a Preamp, so I'll see.
My biggest question at this time though is; with running the DS direct to the Amp my volume setting on the DS is about 60-65. Could I be truncated bits?
I know PS says it shouldn't, but, I don't know...
Anyway, I only listened to it for about an hour yesterday. I then started to play continuously a Purist Audio break in disc.
I'll listen to it more this weekend.
P.S. I should add that I firmly believe in burn in, run in etc. I even own an Audiodharma cable cooker. But, if PS Audio didn't make claims about it needing no burn in time, I wouldn't be concerned. |
FSmithJack,
Why not just get a properly designed tube Dac?? Adding just a random tube output stage wont compare well to a designed from ground up tube Dac like Lampi, VAD or Aesthetix.
Or just a iFi Audio iTube for even less money? |
Fsmithjack,
Thanks for the information about this tube buffer. Can you kindly describe some details regarding the difference with and without it on the DS? |
My biggest question at this time though is; with running the DS direct to the Amp my volume setting on the DS is about 60-65. Could I be truncated bits?
I know PS says it shouldn't, but, I don't know... My guess is Yes and losing resolution so I suggest running through your pre at full volume. I've tried many DACs and always prefer going through a pre. Had a Lamp L5 with analog volume control and still much prefer going through pre. Sometimes theory <> practice. |
But, if PS Audio didn't make claims about it needing no burn in time, I wouldn't be concerned. I don't recall if Paul claimed no burn in for this DAC, but with all due respect to him and some others who've become virtual friends on the forums, I think this DAC does in fact need burn in. I agree you should wait before starting to change anything else, but I still think it's a good idea now to go into your XP-10 instead of right into the Pass amp. I read Ted's comments about that volume level still being okay, but if it were me I'd take it out of the equation by running it's internal volume up higher and using a fabulous preamp like the XP-10 to take care of that. |
Well I have to admit that some of my initial negative comments on the Direct stream were self inflected.
You see in my concern to get the best out of the Direct Stream, along with installing Synergistic Research fuses I also installed an Audio Magic "Pulse Gen ZX".
This product always seemed to bring the best out of digital equipment. But once I removed it from the PS Direct Stream the soundstage did open up quite a bit. I really don't know why, but it was evident. |
Thanks guys for the comments.
With each passing day the DS seems to be getting better.
By the end of this week it will have over 200 hours.
So, at that time I will reconnect my Pass XP-10 Preamp to compare. |
Six Moons just posted a review on the PS Audio Direct Stream. I don't like the writing style,(way too many words as useless chatter) but I think they liked it. |
Hi Ozzy,
This would not surprise me -- the famous Six Moons verbosity. Do you have a link? It does not turn up when I Googled it. |
Try this
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/psaudio/1.html |
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Ozzy, how are you feeding the DS? With your BDP-2? |
Can anyone tell me what you can connect to the 2 i2s inputs on the DirectStream DAC? I am under the impression that it is related to HDMI. If this is correct, is it similar to the NAD M51's HDMI input. I was thinking I could use it to connect the HDMI output from a 2 channel TV Cable Box (amongst other inputs I would use). |
Yyzsantabarbara, I thought that the HDMI inputs could be used that way too. But, they can only connect other PS Units with I2S outputs. If you don't have any of those, those inputs are useless.
Joecasey. I'm using XLR (AES) digital. I would like to try USB but I'm not sure about its compatibility with each other.
I read on the PS Instructions about downloading USB drivers. Not sure how to do this with the Bryston BDP-2 in place of a computer. |
Ozzy, not so on that.
I use I2S from my Empirical Audio Off Ramp 5 into the PWD II I2S input. |
Ozzy, My guess USB drivers are already installed on BDP-2 but I would stick with XLR.
BTW, have you compared BDP-2/DS to your Cary 306? |
There are non-PSA units with I2S outputs that can connect to the Directstream. W4S server is one example. |
Yes, there are other units that can use the I2S via a HDMI cable.
But, its too bad that one of the 2 HDMI inputs couldn't be just used as a regular HDMI input.
So, I could use that input with my Oppo. |
I now have over 200 hours on the Direct Stream.
Right now I am going straight into my Qol and then into the Amp. Thus, bypassing my Preamp.
I'm really likening it this way.. |
Ozzy,
What make is your preamp? |
Another unit that I found that can connect via I2S is the Sonore Rendu PCM/DSD Network Audio Player with Ethernet Input and SPDIF/HDMI i2s Output.
This unit sounds very intriguing to me since it can connect to the network via Ethernet and access JRiver via JRemote on my office PC.
Another unit that I discovered that will have IS2 is the future PS Audio External Bridge that they will build after the PSAudio Internal Bridge II is released. |
The W4S server also has i2s |
Sabai,
My Preamp is a Pass Labs XP-10. Every day the Direct Stream seems to be getting better and better. |
Hi Ozzy,
Thanks for letting me know. |
I have a DSD kit on order for July delivery, but question how I can run it directly into power amp, while still running my Sansui TU - 9900 tuner (and TV audio) through preamp into power amp. Unfortunately, my Krell FPB 300cx has only one set of (XLR) inputs, so if I connect the DSD directly (through top notch Cardas RCA to XLR adaptors), what will I do with my other sources?
This, of course, assumes the direct input will sound better than running it through my Wyetech Opal, which I doubt, but I am keeping open ears and an open mind.
Any suggestions?
Thanks.
Neal |
Neal, I also have a BSG QOL unit. That unit has 4 rca or xlr inputs along with 2 sets of outputs.
So, when I say I am running the Direct Stream direct to my amp that's not exactly true. The Direct Stream first goes to the QOL and then to the Pass Labs Amp.
Yes, I have tried the Direct Stream bypassing the QOL, but I prefer the QOL in the chain.
Anyway, with my home theater set up I am using the front output channels from my Denon unit (preamp outs) to the QOL home theater bypass input. The Denon thus controls the volume for movies. |
The mind boggles, Ozzy . . . .!
I am sure there is some type of IC splitter that will let me run two sets of IC's into one input pair. but that does not sound optimal, espcially with a RCA to XLR adaptor to begin with.
Thanks. |
I just downloaded the new firmware update. Wow, quite an improvement in "air". I now have 360 hours on the DS. |
Ozzy that's exactly what the recent review from Audiostream claimed, the latest firmware gave more presence and space. |
@ Nglazer, Did you need to burn-in the cardas RCA to XLR adapters?, If so, How do they sound?, do they take much from the sound, what is your honest impressions of the cardas Adapters?, Excuse me gentleman for getting off topic, this will not take long, thankyou. |
It is always hard to know how much one tweak if affecting the overall sound, but in this case it was easy. These are far far superior to the BAT adaptors they replaced (and they were pretty good), and MUCH better than the old Cardas black adaptors which went for $50-$60/pair. These were $150/pr at Music Direct, are very substantial and high quality.
I cannot tell how much subtraction from what the sound would be if I had XLR terminations on the IC, but my pre is all unbalanced so I am not sure that would have changed anything.
Neal |
Below is my response to this from 06-06-14: Wisnon:
Why not just get a properly designed tube Dac?? Adding just a random tube output stage wont compare well to a designed from ground up tube Dac like Lampi, VAD or Aesthetix.
Or just a iFi Audio iTube for even less money?
Hi Wisnon,
It's not really a random buffer because it has adjustable voltage and it is really a very well thought out special piece its just not real expensive. Really its about the music and the sound that s forcing my hand. I totally disagree that those units you named with be better than my PS Audio Direct Stream DAC with my output stage.
Steve Decker told me about this a few years ago and I have tried to remove it from my system many times and it's just a pest. A booger on the end of your finger...LOL because there is no arguing how incredibly effective it is at making decent digital pieces sound real good and great ones sound even greater. It's blatant. Trust me Vinny from Red Wine Audio is my neighbor and my bud and he offered to make me a custom, battery powered duel mono buffer but its really not about that. What happens is I buy new or a used but new to me piece and I like it as is and listen for a while and all is well and I then break down and plug in the ZSTAGE it is just better and not by a little. If I went out and bought a Lampi, VAD or Aesthetix like you mentioned I guarantee you I would listen to them and enjoy them and be happy and then I would plug the ZSTAGE to back of them and bam it will sound better. So I go through all that trouble and I still end up using it. Also, my current combo of a PSA Direct Stream DAC then 10 inch custom made solid pure silver Darwin Ascension cables made for this unit then to my old CAT Signature MKIII with Phono chalk full with cryoed, platinum Tele CCA tubes through out is going to be tough to beat. Trust me I have tried. I mean I know I can spend 10k on a pre and get improvement, well that is still a maybe the Tele'd out CAT is a beast and this DS DAC keeps getting better and better. If I was to upgrade something it probably would my speakers before anything else in my system for the most SQ bang for buck. They are Wilson Sophia 2's and they are pretty decent so well see how much better this DAC gets. If it doesn't get any better I will still be very happy as is and wouldn't want to dump just to get rid of my tube output stage... Thanks
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This is a response to:
06-06-14: Sabai
Thanks for the information about this tube buffer. Can you kindly describe some details regarding the difference with and without it on the DS?
Sure, it provides that tube depth and body to the sound at a level that just wasn't there or wasn't nearly as evident... It's impact is most in the sound stage depth and the distinct separation of the instruments. It lights up the edges of the center image for a more supple yet defined center image. That tripod of sound between a deep center image and the sound from the speakers but the sound is no longer from the speakers they are now further back in the space between the middle image and the actual speaker and it has nice effect on the speaker disappearing more than it was. So I find when it deepens the center and pulls the corners back and widens them. Now as they are wider it becomes more defined because now the corners are not only more widened and back but more illuminated in the rear canopy and the darkens corners are now faintly visible and that widen and fattens the entire stage and the entire process adds another level of depth and sophistication The realism and the stage becomes fuller and more enveloping. It is not subtle really at all. Now I am sure my preamp has a lot to say about this. That is why it is hard for me to compare to those with no pre. When I remove my tube output there is a big different and when I remove my pre it is an entirely different presentation so please take this into consideration but the tube output with this DAC and a good pre with good speakers I am sure will provide to a level what I am speaking of. I hope this answers your question. Thanks |
Neal, I have the cardas new black adapters that are $112.00 retail, are your adapters Black color?, the only other cardas adapter I know of is called the cardas clear adapter, and that only comes in one type of connection that I cannot use, I will take a peek at the music direct site, cheers. |
Neal, after looking at their site, I do not have the adapters you have, the cardas adapters I have are $96.00 retail on the music direct site, I believe these are the new and improved adapters that are black, they have never been $50.00 to $60.00 that I know of, I will be useing them temporary, I will be modding my digital player with furetech xlr chassis out puts with Tara labs internal wireing anyway,thankyou for your reply, cheers. |
Audiolabyrinth,
Sorry to intrude on Ozzy's thread, but the ones I have are the Cardas Clear adapters. The old Cardas I had were about $60 when I bought them about 10 years ago. I am sure the ones you have are much improved. Good luck.
Neal |
Fsmithjack,
Thanks for this detailed description. Much appreciated. |
Ur Welcome ... For what it's worth this DAC has not stopped getting better. I'm waiting for the ceiling. My system is pretty dang revealing and I guess it could be my Wilson's speakers still breaking in as well but in my system it has not leveled off yet. For the guys using and/or complaining that are rolling w/o a pre. Really, for real at this level w/o a pre? You should buy a serious pre first, To each their own and all that but the pre? No pre? It's just not how it is supposed to be regardless what the OEM's spew out. The pre is where it's at. It's the blood and guts and would never ever consider optional but that's just mo. Anyways there is a progression and pre's in hobby are not really optional. There just not and especially at this level. I couldn't imagine this hobby w/o a pre. |
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I think it really depends on the Amp your using with the Direct Stream as to if a Preamp is necessary. And, if you need additional analog inputs. |
Ozzy,
I guess I'll just have to wait with baited breath till I finally order my DS. I have an Atma-Sphere S30 power amp. |
What are you using for bait? ;-)
Regards, |
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+2 Fsmithjack. A "high quality" preamp in most systems will sound better than a direct source to amplifier IMO. As always, to each their own. |
