Hello Clipsal,
I agree with you completely! I recieved my Cortese at the end of October of 2005. I owned a Syrah before that. Upon receiving the Cortese, I could not believe how fantastic it sounded. Since then it has gone from fantastic to absolute KILLER! I finally put in some NOS tubes, and I found the same thing as you did. The Cortese sounds better with the stock tubes! Mick has done a wonderful job of tuning the preamp to the stock tubes. I now spend my time enjoying music and not worrying about obtaining the latest and greatest tubes. All these guys selling NOS tubes for ridiculous prices can keep them. What more could you possibly ask for. A world class preamp that does not even need NOS tubes to sound world class. I also agree with your comments about your experience with NOS tubes sounding "different" but not better. My advice for anyone contemplating getting a Supratek is DO IT! .Don't worry about buying a bunch of overpriced tubes. |
Finally! Damn, I waited so long for someone to post a message like this. The NOS tubes IMO does not "really" improve the sound of the preamp, it changes it and since you spend so much $$ for the tube, it must be good right? Here's my post dated 7/7/05. You are into something here. Although the Mullards are great in my Chenin (Metal GZ34), you have to remember that when Mick listened to the preamp, especially the phono, the parameters were adjusted with the conventional tubes in service.
For example, the right resistance to properly biased the JFET's etc. If you open the preamp, you will see that there are rheostat's (blue) on some junctions that their primary fuction was to "tweaked" or "optimized" a certain parameter(s) (i.e. voltage or current)to voiced out the preamp.
...just a thought... I TOLD YOU SOOOOOOO!!!!! |
I just put a review of my Supratek Cortese on the Audiogon review section. |
On the subject of tube rolling, this was in my first post on Audiogon in 2003 ...
" As a final point, I have noticed that there is a lot of discussion about the merits of tube rolling with the 6SN7 output valve in the Cortese and Syrah. Personally, I think that Mick has carefully chosen the stock 6N8P (a 6SN7 equivalent) based on its sonic merits and there is no real need to replace the valve with another. I have in my collection the 6N8P and various 6SN7's including the black Ken Rads; black Brimars with red bases; Toshiba; Raytheons; Mullards and the Sylvania VT231. If I had to chose a favourite it would be the Sylvania VT231 because I find it the most transparent and the highs are sweetest(it can sometimes be a bit be microphonic though). I feel the Cortese and Syrahs are so inherently musical, that it does not make a huge difference swapping valves so long as the valve is nice and fresh, and not noisy to begin with. My advice on this is don't get anal about it, just enjoy the music! "
Having personally heard and seen seen Mick Maloney develop Supratek products since its inception around 1996, I know the guy to be meticulous in tuning each preamp on an oscilloscope to get them to sound the best before they are delivered to the customer. While this doesn't rule out tube swapping (it can be interesting and good fun) it probably does mean the preamps are optimally tuned when they leave the factory, so best to leave well enough alone.
Regards,
Steve M.
Western Australia |
My Chardonnay is on the way. Mick emailed me this morning to say its done testing and ready to ship.
Its only been two months since I ordered it, so the wait wasn't too bad. Can't wait, I should have it by the weekend I guess. |
Hi Allanblissett,
That is great. Mick must really be improving the time that people have to wait. You are going to love your pre. A word of advice. Let the stock tubes burn in good before tube rolling. In my opinion, tube rolling is not even necessary. Mick is tuning these preamps to the stock tubes. I don't think you will get better sound and you will shrink your wallet on NOS tubes. |
Thanks for the advice. Two question if you don't mind.
How long do they take to get here from down under, and
How long to burn in. |
You should have in in about a week or maybe less. As long as it does not get stuck in customs that is. Did you give Mick your SS#. I am told customs is requiring this now. If you did not give it to him, you will probably get a call from Fed Ex or DHL telling you it is waiting in customs.
As for break in time. At least 100 hours, and truly more like 200 hours. Don't worry though, the pre will be a pure delight straight out of the box. As it breaks in it just keeps getting better. Don't even think about tube rolling during break in. Let those stock tubes sow what they can do. |
Its coming by DHL. Mick didn't ask for my ss# and I didn't give it. I hope it doesn't get stuck.
Did he send you a tracking #, I asked him to send me one but I have not got it yet. |
Yes, he sent me a tracking number. If it gets delayed in customs, the shipping company will contact you. |
Got my Chardonnay yesterday, took it out of the box last night and was just amazed. I just sat there for about a hour just looking at it. It is so stunning to look at.
By the time I did some rearanging and got it hooked up it was so late that I just played a couple tracks on a cd.
I just wanted to make sure it worked, but boy did it sound good.
I also was not sure if it inverts phase or not, as my old preamp did. I email Mick and he said it does not, so I have to go staighten out my speaker wires at the amp.
Otherwise so far so good, my only wish is that the manual could be a bit more informative specs wise. |
hello Allanblissett,
Glad to hear that you love the Chardonney. Mick's preamps truly are a work of art! The best part is they sound even better than they look.
Enjoy! |
has anybody had a chance to hear the new cabernet using dual 6SN7's (2 pair that is) rather than 6SN7/DHT? mick said the new cab design is about $1k cheaper and sounds better. i know it's dumb of me, but i think the DHT version would look better so i'm still leaning in that direction. hopefully somebody has had a chance to hear the new cab. i would appreciate any insight from those in "the know." |
kg: I haven't heard the double 6SN7 circuit, but I just got my gold Grange back from Mick with an upgrade of TJ-300B meshplates driven by EH-6SN7's ...all I can say is WOW what a difference!! Extra detail, speed, separation, control in the bass (less bloom), and heaps more clarity and treble extensiion. Plus it retains the 300B midrange magic.
In terms of the sonic differences between the dht 101 and double 6SN7 - you need to trust Mick on this one. If he says the double 6SN7's sounds better then they probably do, the guy is rarely ever wrong on such matters. However, I agree with you that the bulb shaped 101 is a very sexy looking tube!
I've owned the dht TJ-101 Cabernet pre and it did sound excellent. The 101 has a distinct sound, a very pristine presentation with a hear-through character and if you are a detail freak, it will suit you well. The 6SN7 is an overall competent tube that does everything well and is very sweet sounding.
Hope this helps ...
Regards,
Steve from
Western Australia |
Read this in a for sale add (Syrah)
"Here the original 417A/5842 has been replaced with a E180F/6688, which is the same tube used on the Cortese and Grange models. When triode-connected, the 6688 has the same transconductance as the 417A, but has a higher amplification factor and better linearity - and it sounds better too."
Are these a direct replacement for the 5842s or does the amp need modded?
Thanks Simon |
Has anyone implemented or researched the Welborne Remote Control? http://welbornelabs.com/remote.htmI installed a DACT in my Chardonnay which was a huge step up in transparency over the stock Alps Blue Pot. I have considered the remote option for the DACT, but the Welborme remote would offer more steps of attenuation. My greatest concern would be a reduction in transparency, but Ron Welborne seems to think his remote would be equal to the DACT in transparency. Any thoughts or experience would be appreciated. |
My Cabernet second-hand value just "depriciated" another $1K due the new double 6SN7 design...sigh! >_<
Kenji |
Not so Kenji! I would argue that every Supratek preamp is handmade and 'special' , that the directly heated triode (DHT) models like the Cabernet have their own sound and are unique products that will stand the test of time and may actually become collectable ...plus that bulb shaped TJ-101D is hell sexy and a selling point!!
Regards, |
Hello Stevem1960,
Any idea how Mick is coming on the KT-88 amps? There have been no updates on his website. I was just wondering if they are close to production yet. Have you heard a pair of them? |
Steven1960, mine only accepts PX4/300B's tubes. Not 101D. I guess this does not make the Cabernet look sexy...
I still couldn't get rid of the microphonic issue, could it be my listening room is too small? The pre-amp actually picks up my voice when the disc is not spinning.
Kenji |
slowhand:
last email i sent an email to mick regarding the kt88. he said he was a couple of weeks out waiting on a transformer supplier. shoot him a line as this was about a month ago when i emailed him i believe.
kenji:
the cabernet is able to use px4, 300b, and another dht which i can't remember. i'm not even sure if mick is still using the 101d though i'm sure he would if asked to do so. he said he prefers the new dual 6SN7 design over the dht design and he encountered issues with owners frying their dht because they'd forget to switch to the proper voltage and complaints of microphonics. |
Slowhand: No, I have not heard the KT88 amps yet and I'm not sure of their release date, but it should be soon as KG says ??
Kenji: that sounds like unacceptably high levels of microphonics in your Cabernet. Its usually tube related. My Grange has a small amount of microphonics with EH-300B tubes and absolutely NONE with the TJ-300B or 45 tubes.
BTW, the meshplate TJ-300B is magnificent sounding! Its not even close, it makes the others sound crude in comparison.
Regards,
Steve. |
Steve, even with all stock tubes, the microphonic issue is still bothering me. May be is the casing or inadequate damping. I had tried all sorts all isolation methods but failed. I am going to move to a bigger listening room to try it out.
Kgturner, Mick switched to PX4 tubes when he was making mine in December 2004. PX4 tubes were superior to 101D according to him. I like the PX4 sound pretty much. Later I sent it back for "upgrading" to accept 300B tubes as well. So far I prefer the PX4. |
Supratek Grange Based System - My Pictures ...in case any of you might be interested, I spent some time uploading pictures and reviews of my audio system on the Audiogon Systems Ever Evolving pages. Go to:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1146370182
Hope you enjoy looking at it...
Regards,
Steve. |
Regarding the microphonics of the DHTs, I also have had considerable "challenges". The most important factor, I've found, is the sensitivity of the amplifier. With very high sensitivity amps, such as my ASL Hurricanes, the microphonics are very noticable. Yes- I can also hear my voice when speaking in the room near the preamp and no music playing. I've experimented with the PX-4s, 45s and 300Bs. I've found that the 300Bs (especially the WE)are the least sensitive to microphonics; the PX-4s and 45s the most. With a lower sensitivity amp (or placing attenuators in the line between the pre and amp), it's less noticable or goes away. Having said all this, if you can listen past the microphonics, I've found that the incredible dynamic range, musicality, transparancy and openness of the DHTs are worth the trouble. I am currently using EML 45s in my Grange. I have a Cortese modified to Grange currently for sale on Audiogon that changed out the DHTs for single triodes to offer less microphonics. |
Hi Gang,
Just received an e-mail from Mick and he says the KT-88 amps are almost ready. He is very happy with the sound. They will be 60 wpc. He had to give up a little power to get the sweetness he wanted. Still, 60 watts of tube power should be enough for most applications. I am sure that these amps will be a perfect match to Mick's preamps and will probably take care of microphonic problems that other amps cause. |
slowhand:
any news on pricing of the kt88? |
Mick has not set the price yet, but he told me $2,000 to $3,000! That would be great! |
slowhand:
did mick say anything about how the amps are wired? i'd presume that 60 watts from a single pair of KT88 tubes means the amps are wired for ultralinear operation. i'm hoping he can wire them for triode operation as well as i intend to biamp with the supratek amp on top and a pair of digital amps on bottom. |
If you check Mick's website and click on amps, he explains about the amp in more detail. He says they will sound like a single end triode amp.
|
I have to concurr with SteveM.I have tried TJ meshplate PX4s,EH 300Bs and TJ meshplate 300Bs in my Cabernet.The TJ 300Bs are vastly better.They have utterly amazing treble and a lovely double cream sort of richness without any loss in vibrancy.In a way they are the epitome of the 300B sound.
The EH 300Bs sound dull,dry and compressed by comparison.
JT |
Having owned a Supratek Chenin pre-amp for approximately 2-years, last week, I had occasion to contact Mick about a perceived problem. I say perceived, because after Mick's reply, I realized that I had made an erroneous assumption.
However, the reason for this post is to not discuss the specifics of my communiqué with Mick, but to commend Mr. Maloney for his first rate communications skills. Not only were Mick's communications before the sale detailed, cogent, and prompt, but thereafter, my experiences were as positive as before the sale.
It's great owning a fine piece of equipment. It's even better knowing that its designer and manufacturer provides top notch customer service.
PS. The same positive comments apply to my turntable manufacturer, Thom Mackris (Galibier Design), my amplifier manufacturer, Ken Stevens (CAT [Convergent Audio Technologies]), Dr. Roger West -- my Soundlab speaker manufacturer, and Gordon Rankin of Wavelength Audio (my USB DAC designer/builder). I've said it before on Audiogon, but it bears repeating, by buying from cottage and SMALL businesses; IÂve reaped BIG rewards, and have forged lasting friendships. Cheers to all those IÂve mentioned, and to all the other wonderful dedicated, inventive, manufacturers and hobbyists that help us reproduce the music that so fires our passions! |
I have had exactly the same experiences with Mick and Thom Mackris.
Both are totally accessible and a pleasure to deal with. Thom's table with the Grange phono stage is very special. |
Mrmb and Docsavage,
Glad to hear Thom Mackris is great to deal with. I am considering buying his new Serac turntable when it is ready for production. I would like to mate it with a Schroeder model 2 arm and use my ZYX Yatra cartridge. |
I also have had very good communication and advice from both, Mick and Thom. Mick solved a minor problem with my Chenin over the internet with my technician in a couple of days, and Thom helped me with a problem with my Micro Seiki 505 even though I didn't buy a turntable from him. Impressive.
I've changed most of my system since my last post, but the Supratek! The Linn is gone and it has been replaced by a Teres 255/Micro Seiki 505/Zyx Airy 3. The Silverline Sonatas have been replaced by a pair of Coincident Total Victory. I have kept the Lamhorn/Lowther EX-4, the Wright Sound 3.5 and I bought a pair of Golden Tube 300B SE monoblocks.
If the KT-88 will sound like a SE amp, I would consider them! Best regards, Pablo. |
I have Chenin, and for fun I have been rolling tubes.
I have noticed that the biggest overall difference in sound makes replacing stock 6sn7.
According to tubeworld the best 6sn7 is Mullard ECC33 military version (CV2821)
https://www.tubeworld.com/6sn7.htm
I have been looking for it for a long time.
Somebody on ebay from England is selling pair.
http://cgi.ebay.com/CV2821-ECC33-MULLARD-TUBE-VALVE-NEW-1-PC_W0QQitemZ9714276908QQcategoryZ39997QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I bought one pair form him. It was not microphonic, the biggest problem with Supratek.
If it is the best I do not know, because since I have moved to new place (small room, with crannies, scene collapsed, bass if uncontrolled).
But at previous place stock tubes sounded really bad in comparison to KenRad, Sylvania.
Someday I will move to golden room and I will appreciate it (at least IÂm hoping for it).
If somebody would decide to try it (and have sound transparent room), please let me know if you could hear the difference and if it was worth the asking price. |
Hi Sorlowski,
I switch between Sylvania,RCA grey glass & Tung Sol 'mouse ear' 6SN7's. Tried lots of others but these are all nice in different ways.
I'm looking for a spare pair of Tung Sol 5881's, tried the EH 6L6 but they are horrible and add a grainy edge to the sound.
Wondered if anyone had tried the re-issue made in russia tung sol 5881's ????
Rgds Simon |
Just received an e-mail from Mick. He says the name of the new KT-88 amp is Malbec. The amps will have a gain control which will help it match to any system and it will have a feedback control to help it match to various speakers. My Berning amp has this also. This is a nice feature as it helps control the woofer for tighter bass. |
Well, I have about 60 hours on my Chardonnay now, and a couple nights ago it started sounding SUPER dynamic, real edgegy and hard.
I played with the gain controls for a while but they didn't help.
So I just turn it off and when to bed. I didn't want to start rolling tubes yet, but I suspected microphonics.
I am not sure why it would have just started after 60 hours when they should be getting better, not worse.
Anyway the next night I decided to roll the 6sn7, so I replaced the stock ones with a pair of RCA I had been using in my previous preamp, a AE3 DJH.
Well that did it, they tamed it dowm nicely, no more edgey runaway dynamics. Everything just smooth out and nice.
Now I cann't wait to roll the other tubes. I have some Golden Dragon Kt66 laying around I will try.
I know they may not be worth the effort but what the hell, they cann't be worse. Can they!! |
Well, I have about 60 hours on my Chardonnay now, and a couple nights ago it started sounding SUPER dynamic, real edgegy and hard.
I played with the gain controls for a while but they didn't help.
So I just turn it off and when to bed. I didn't want to start rolling tubes yet, but I suspected microphonics.
I am not sure why it would have just started after 60 hours when they should be getting better, not worse.
Anyway the next night I decided to roll the 6sn7, so I replaced the stock ones with a pair of RCA I had been using in my previous preamp, a AE3 DJH.
Well that did it, they tamed it dowm nicely, no more edgey runaway dynamics. Everything just smooth out and nice.
Now I cann't wait to roll the other tubes. I have some Golden Dragon Kt66 laying around I will try.
I know they may not be worth the effort but what the hell, they cann't be worse. Can they!!
Allanblissett (Answers) Since you are on it, maybe you want to try the Sovtek KT-66 as regulators. I tried the Genalex Gold Lion(thin sound), the regular GEC KT66 dark and clear glass(clear but bass is bloated), the 6F6G Sylvania (great bass, so and so mids), Tungsol 5881 (dark overall, big bass, not great in detail which made horn sound rounded at the ends), RCA 6L6GC (balance overall but everything sounds mellow), but the Sovtek that Mick suggested seems to sound right to me. Although it took about 50 hours for the tube to settle. One more thing, I used to have a little hiss on both channels with all the other regulators I was using. With the Sovtek, the hiss on both channel are now gone! I do not know why but I have 4 pairs of original Tungsol 5881 that I paid big $$$$$ for and the GEC tubes I bought from Europe which I already sold and all of these plus other regulators for some reason makes hiss but not the Sovtek. Weird, but thats my story in my system only of course. |
I have a Chardonnay on order, since 5/3, and am looking forward to it. But I am curious how something can have "runaway dynamics"? Never heard of that. Edgy is one thing, but it is not an increase in dynamics. And 6SN7's definitely can have microphonic issues which I have experienced, but in no way does it make it more dynamic or harsh, just... well, microphonic. How can it become too dynamic? |
Thanks for the tip on the Sovteks, I will order a couple to try. |
Dbarger, that just was my impresion of it. It was like not even the gain controls could control it, the microphonics were so bad. |
Hi Amandarae:
Where do you buy the Sovteks? I am using the Sylvanias 6F6G and I want to try the Sovteks.
Hi Slowhand:
Did Mick tell you how he came up with that name for the KT-88? Nice name! |
|
Hi Pablovila,
Mick names all his amps and preamps after types of wines. I am no wine expert, so I have never heard of Malbec, but it is a type of wine. Just type it into google and read all about it. |
>>Mick names all his amps and preamps after types of wines<<
Well sort of. Actually he names them after grapes with the exception being the Grange which is named after Australia's most famous wine "Grange Hermitage". It is made entirely from the syrah grape. The syrah grape is inexplicably called shiraz in Australia.
Authentic Hermitage originated and is made in the Northern Rhone Valley. It is also made from the Syrah grape which is the only grape allowed (by French law) to be used in that region. It is one of the longest lived wines in the world and in good vintages ages well for a century or more. |
Been using the Chardonnay with an ordinary power cord ( a Linn stock PC I think ) for awhile and have now thought of trying something decent. I canÂt remember reading any comments on this topic. I would appreciate if you can share your experiences in this regard & your views on the best PCÂs which works for Suprateks.
Thanks
Happy listening! |
Hi Dilly,
I have a Syrah and have been through about a dozen
power cords, most of the Shunyata, a few Electraglides,
PS Audio,Z-squared,HMS & Oyaide.
In my system, imo the Harmonix Studio Master I am using
now is really nice with the Syrah.
Just sounds right - if I replace it, I always
end up going back to it.
Rgds Simon |
Hi Dilly,
I have found that I really like the Michael Wolff Carbon Ribbon Gain power cord with my Cortese. |
