Power Cords Snake Oil ??

Albert: That's why you are a better audiophile than I. :-)

Zaikesman, are you saying we audiophiles are being strung along? :^)

If so, perhaps a better name for Corona’s new cords would be “Silly String.” I’m about half serious, it would disarm most people with a laugh and maybe drop their defenses long enough to give them a listen.

Albert: Maybe Corona will take you up on the audition offer, but I already stated previously that I am not interested, as a rule, in checking out products which IMO are marketed using specious claims. And oh, yeah, my system's alright I guess, but I don't know that even one at the exalted level of your own is up to testing whatever it is that S23chang is talking about (and I play the guitar... ;^)

Actually Chang, if you want to extend String Theory to guitar playing, there's an example of what we might call "Cord Theory": Albert Collins, the great, late Texas blues stringslinger, always got a distinctly unique guitar tone that no one else gets. I've read many items speculating as to why this was so, ranging from his idiosyncratic unconventional-open-tuning-plus-capo instrument set-up, to his Telecaster-fitted-with-Gibson-humbuckers axe, to his pick-less thumb-and-forefinger pluck-slap right-hand technique, and all of this undoubtedly does have something to do with his personalized tone. But some time after I saw him in concert at DC's famed (but now-history) Cellar Door in about '82, I realized what his real secret was. He used a custom-made, 100ft. long cord so that he could perform his trademark walk-out-of-the-club-and-keep-right-on-playing-out-in-the-street showmanship routine, which he began doing way back in the day years before cordless radio instrument/amp-connection systems were available. But he kept on using that cord even after they were, and used it in the studio too. One day after seeing that show, I happened to be playing somewhere away from my usual rig and had to plug in using something like a 30ft. cord, the longest normally sold. Lo and behold, I heard a faint trace of Albert's trademark tonality coming through - it was presumably the cord's extra capacitance vs. the common 10ft. or 15ft. cords at work.

Anyway, as I understand it (meaning in no way technically), "String Theory" is a grand, entirely mathematical, theoretical physics construct designed to possibly provide a 'unifying' framework for connecting the four more-or-less-observable fundamental types of force at work in the universe, namely gravity, electromagnetism, weak nuclear force, and strong nuclear force. I think the math is supposed to work out to imply that matter-energy actually consists of infinitesimally tiny elemental units of existence described as being 'strings' which manifest as the various types of more-or-less-observable members of the 'particle zoo' through their different 'resonant' states, and which constitute the 'fabric' of space-time within 12 or so 'looped' dimensions. And this math, if correct, is supposed to apply in all instances and conditions right back to the moment of the Big Bang, unlike the equations of Newton, Maxwell, Einstein, Bohr, etc. Or something like that. The theory may never be confirmable through scientifically testable means. But regardless of whether or not these 'strings' actually exist, they (as of now) have nothing directly observable/dectectable to do with our everyday world of guitar strings, power chords, or power cords.

1) The most relevant thing I can say about power cords, I suppose, is that my wife and I can hear differences in double blind tests, but the interconnects must all be up to snuff and all the cords plugged in correctly vis-a-vis their polarity orientation.
2) The only light I can shed on why "string theory" matters to cable design is, to summarize string theory.
String theory is a theory for a unified description of the fundamental particles and four fundamental forces in nature, which includes gravity. Now, I think, that since it would relate how the two nuclear forces, and the metallurgy/chemistry of a cord effects its electrical properties and how they, themselves, are effected by its vibration, i.e. the cord's gravitational responses (environmental and otherwise), a cable designer could, in theory--if he now knew all the mathematics, etc. of the different forces' interactions--finally design a cord which is wholly without "guesswork", and close to perfection.
This suggests particle physicists make good cable designers, I suppose.
It further suggests that its many of today's "white papers" that are the snake oil, (but not the cords, they work) because any "white paper" actually accounting for these quantum-level type "mechanisms" which operate in cables and cords would be so technically scientific us non-physicists wouldn't fullly understand it.
Does this mean we shouldn't believe what we can understand?
Why not? We believe in what we can't. It's called faith.
Happy New Year.

Interesting to see the 4 day breather we all took. 2003 took some getting over for me, too....
Corona, you even hyperbolized my words back on 12/21 too!
My "statement" Prelude and Fugue PCs take 2+ hrs to build, using all-Teflon insulations and a highly-refined antiresonant, high-density, nonmagnetic, heat-sinking "bath". Blah, blah, blah. Of course the core conductors are "OEM". Do you think ANYBODY making audiophile PCs casts and extrudes their own copper/silver wire? Do you? I use the best materials available; after 2+ hrs assembly (trying to match my Subaru-mechanic nomen's $60/hr labor rate) I've got about a $160-170 CGS ea in these, and will sell direct at $160-185! Delete minor marketing expenses, tools, and especially customer service time consulting/marketing I'm probably making about $10/hr on my $39 and $55 PC Kits, and maybe could make $20-30/hr if I'm lucky on these Prelude & Fugue ones. Helluva great business model, eh? Crump and other folks have suggested that my prices have to be much higher to make a go of it. I know this already; consequently my activity sits at the hobbyist/DIY and myth-busting high-value level. Nevertheless, I contend that there's no earthly reason why high-performance PCs need cost more than $250. We can be sure that if our tiny market was considered attractive there'd be mass-produced ultra-low dielectric-involvement, anti-rez PCs coming out of China for under $100 by now.
Many of us hear differences with varying PCs depending upon specific system criteria, as listed by other posters. Fine.
If this weren't true I wouldn't be involved either, believe me. But I contend that exotically-priced, usually- concommitantly-gushingly-unexplainable performance aspects of individual PCs are accidentally consequent to our roulette of system matching and idiosyncratic placement. And what does "better" mean? Many of my A'gon customers and buddies have resold their expensive PCs after installing mine. Others (fortunately a minority) claim that spending more results in
differences (aka "improvements") they value. So be it. By varying quantity and types of conductors and insulations, geometry and resonant behaviour one can "tune" these snakes.
This is already quite a mature, "old-hat" culture for true
audio-bandwidth cabling for use with mic, interconnect and speaker applications. To claim unexplainably-extraordinary performance for a relatively simpler 60Hz AC application across the board (most or all power supplies) smarts of snake-oil marketing in a quasi-virgin submarket. Many of you have expressed this already, and more cogently than I have....
Being a pianist, and having just set up a decent home-recording adjunct to my beloved Steinway B, I have to admit that subtle microphone placement was FAR more critical to obtaining great recordings than subtle changes in cabling.
The (Michael) Grace Class A mic preamp runs off its own wall-wart, and very inexpensive, yet universally-accepted Canare starquad mic cables link the Earthworks omnis....
Years ago I struggled with speaker-placement and sidewalls-treatment to arrive at proper room "loading".... Both these exercises further confirm to me that acoustic/electric transducer performance is still the overwhelming aspect that "leverages" excellent performance. Yes, I'm astounded by the music-making of my EMC-1, the Aleph P and monos, the SPM transparency and speed, and even the improved coherence and spatial holography provided by my inexpensive PCs, but I try not to get lost in these RELATIVELY minor details....
I've designed a few speaker systems, so understand the basics of passive crossovers, drivers' Thiele-Small, box-loading, radiatiioon patterns, etc. I find it almost preposterous that a single-driver dynamic loudspeaker performs significantly better only with a specific power cord linking its amplifier. I suppose the claim is based upon the purity of a crossoverless (capacitorless) design.
Yet MANY multi-driver loudspeakers use a natural acoustic rolloff of their midrange driver, and some without a high-pass either, thus running "naked" up top as well. The VA Parsifal Encores share this design, with resultant crosses at wide 150/5500Hz points. believe me, they sound extraordinarily good with my Alephs pushing them with nelson Pass' original $8 14AWG PCs, and somewhat better with my PCs. To state that a loudspeaker won't perform to design level without a specific PC is in my mind insulting to all those who've sweated countless hours designing and voicing excellent transducers. In a related vein, would B&K et al specify a SPECIFIC PC to provide phantom power to their $4000 microphones? Methinks not, and I doubt they worry much about performance compromises either. Happy and Healthier New Years to all. Ern

Corona...Which way does the grain run in the "1 ½” thick solid walnut plinth" under your amplifier? Is it black walnut or English walnut? Did it come from a branch growing North/South or East West? (Magnetic field effects). What kind of varnish do you have on it? Was the tree organicly grown? What kinds of birds had nests in the tree? Did you ever fall out of the tree and hit your head?

S23chang. I’ve been following this thread and I believe Zakes‘ problem began with Corona’s post on 12-14-03.

Any of you Audiogoners that not yet investigated “String Theory” check it out on the “net”; its implementation is what’s going to divide the past from the future.

If I’m wrong, no doubt he will correct me. By the way, I think Zakes got a pretty nice system. I think you two are just on different topics.

If it’s any consolation, I’ve been confused by this thread for several days.

Zaikesman:
Z, I respect your input but you’ve got your needle stuck in the same old groove. Think about this: We are generating an electromagnetic null down the center of the power cable, the field effect of the two conductors in opposition are then neutralized, you now have two polarities in electromagnetic isolation. This whole movement is created by a manipulation of field resonance; this is “String Theory”. Do we have enough proof to satisfy the scientific community? No. We*DO* have the technology to create a product that works like nothing has before. We are advancing the state of the art. We are *NOT* in search of a Nobel Prize. Our business is producing cable products that yield extraordinary results but somehow this is not good enough, you are more concerned about the bottle than you are about its contents. Now if you can supply us with a better explanation I would like to hear it. Or, I think, you once said it would be better if we gave no explanation; for you that might be acceptable but for many others that just would not do.

Agreed.

All scientific theory aside, maybe Corona will allow you or I to listen and determine if they work in our situation.

Zaikesman, "untestable String Theory"? What are you referring to? You can look at a simple instrument as guitar and you know why all 6 strings sound different. That's the simplest test on string theory. Have that in mind, you can then apply to a more advanced electric guitar. Have that in mind, wire a 22 ga. solid core hookup wire vs a 24 ga. stranded hookup wire on your CD player output, if you can't hear the difference in your system then maybe your system is not neccessary an ideal system to have the true sound revealed.

Tonight I went to a formal salsa dance. I was wearing a suit that was ten years old, since I've lost 25 lbs. Like the Men's Wearhouse TV commercial says, "You're going to like the way you look". Wool jacket and spiffy pants, deerskin shoes w/ leather soles. The first band was more jazzy/mambo; softer in sound. I thought my system could do a good job at conveying the illusion of what was being played. Then Sammy De León's band went on stage--Ouch! the entire horn section is composed of young Anglo guys who are incredible jazz performers (sax, trombone, two trumpets). Sammy is THE best modern timbales player--period. There is NO way any system can convey THAT. By the end I was dancing with a HOT mami in her early twenties, with native American indian features, golden brown skin and a good set of hooters. I am 41 years old and let me tell you, audiophools...THE WORLD CHANGED.

Albert, I've taken your advice to heart.

With psychic power and primal intensity,

Albert, I think your method of choice is plenty scientific, or at least as scientific as choosing a cord based solely on 'scientific' notions of what 'should' be the case without listening. And the fact is, enjoyment is enjoyment, whether we can 'prove' we hear a difference or whether we can only *say we think* we hear a difference.

I have no doubt that if Corona's cables are physically unique in *any* way compared to all other cables, then they may - even probably will - sound different from all other cables to a greater or lesser degree. I say this about *any* brand of cable, or indeed any piece of audio gear period. But I realize that even were I to subjectively come to the conclusion after auditioning that Corona's cables were the best-sounding (to me) cables in the world, that fact *still wouldn't* validate his claims about *why* they might be the best. And I *still wouldn't* place any credence, only discredit, in his (non-specific at best, deviously misleading at worst, and completely ascientific any way you look at it) invoking of untestable String Theory to explain the differences.

I’ve followed this thread for awhile but hesitated to join in. It almost read like a private email exchange of ideas due to the character of the responses.

Some of what every member has posted seems factual (at least part of it, based on my experience). I don’t understand the string theory bit, but that last post by Corona makes sense. I can see how some of these ideas put into practice could result in a significantly better sounding amp.

As for his comments about power cords and his speakers, I have no experience to go by. I do know that the type and design of power cords plugged into my Soundlabs (they pull one eighth of one watt) make a huge difference. It should not, but every person who sits listening while I pull one and replace with another always laughs in disbelief.

I try different cables when people I respect tell me they’re worth listening to. That’s how I found most of the equipment in my system.

I know nothing about the cable Corona is talking about and even less about the theory describing why it works. I do know that most cable sounds different from each other and some is a great deal better than another.

At one time in my audio career I refused to believe that any power cord could matter. To me, this was like kids putting giant mufflers and four inch outlets at the end of their one inch exhaust system. How the heck could it help after all that small pipe?

In spite of it seeming ridiculous, power cords make a big difference. The amount of difference depends on the equipment, quality of the system, the cable design, the quality of your in wall wiring and the service provider. It’s no wonder this is the most hotly debated topic. It’s unlikely any two of us have identical situations to draw results from.

My decision is as always. I test by listening and deciding if the amount of money involved is worth making the change. Not very scientific, but the music always benefits doing it this way.

Hi all,

Although I have never posted on the forums, I am a veteran of the Audiogon site, having bought and sold several pieces of mid to hi end equipment over the years. I'm also a member of the Audiophile Society in town, and I get to CES every year since 2000. (I say all of that as a point of reference only .) I happen to own Sahuaro Snake Oil, uh, I mean Cables :) in my system, which includes: KR Antares Amp, Joule Electra LA150 preamp, Richard Kern-modified Sony 777-SACD, and a Kuzma Stabi TT, all running through BPT 3.5 Sig. line conditioning (except amp). I haven't tried everything, but I have tried Cardas, JPS, Tice, Nordost etc ....
and for me, there is NOTHING that compares to the resolution, clarity, detail, and pure emotional involvement of my system with this cabling. It's not close.. I have personally been at CES for several "AB" tests between Sahuaro and the "hot cabling du jour", with results being so lopsided that there wasn't even any lively discussion involved.. While I appreciate the apprehension expressed here, it really does come down to the "music" ...
All I can say is try out the Prethrilla or Ampthilla - you get 30 days to check it out. What's there to lose? Call or email Lon at audiolon.com - he can help you. (I am NOT affiliated with anyone btw, but Lon is a pal) Also, there are other opinions at http://hometheatertalk.com/httalk/viewtopic.php?t=3541&highlight=sahuaro from John Beavers, and at audioasylum, there's plenty of discussion also...

FWIW
Alan (not to be confused with Alan Kafton, who is an aquaintance of mine ...:)

Kt 88:
Forgot to mention the amp. is 200/200 watts per channel

Kt 88:
The lab amp, which we built, sits on a 1 ½” thick solid walnut plinth. Its transformer is separated from the electronics; the rectifier bridge is a soft recovery design. We spent 6 months developing the emitters made from resistive copper wire rather than nichrome; the diameter and length were tuned to the amp’s performance. To our knowledge this had never been done before. We recently discovered that YBA’s top of the line $35,000 amp has the emitters removed completely from their transistor design which is even better. Tube designs don’t use emitters but they have to deal with output transformer problems. We used Hovland’s best film and foil capacitors and Vishay’s best resistors. The transformer and power supply were wired with very heavy gage solid core with an isolated symmetrical configuration; the transformer temperature is controlled by constant convection flow. We have compared this amp with CJ’s and many others; bottom line: there is no comparison. CJ will probably tell you if they built an amp like that it would cost a fortune. We have no plans to sell this amp but 6 years ago when we built it the projected price was about $6500; in today’s market it would be a bit more.

¡Qué mucho loco!

For all the hyperbole in this thread, (in particular surrounding much of Mr. Corona's comments, no one has answered Mr. Drubin's question above. Searching previous threads on "Sahuaro", there is a mention in one that an Audiogon member has auditioned (?) some. Maybe, if he is willing, he can at least, give us his opinion. Or anyone else?

Matchstikman:

We have found the same degree of improvement whether we are attaching our power cables to digital or analog audio equipment. A real insight manifested when we linked a pc to a battery supplied preamp. Since the unit stores it energy in the form of DC we felt that no real performance benefit would occur with a state of the art power cord; to the owner’s and our surprise the improvement was substantial. This probable means that while the unit is drawing energy to store the effect the pc have on the electromagnetic configuration is not altered even when converted to DC and stored in the battery.

Corona,

I'll worry about the beer later. In the mean time..... why don't you tell me how much quality audio equipment you have designed. And then call CJ and tell them how wonderful your cables are. And then get back to me.

Slappy,

Yes I suppose no matter how big a snake is, there is always a bigger one lying in wait of some unexpected passer by. And in the case of the one found in Indonesia, they found it, before it found them. I guess when a snake grows to big, it becomes quite obvious to all. It has no place to hide.

This is my final post in this thread. So Corona, you have the last opportunity to knock me out with your words. But be careful, if you miss perhaps the wind your words will knock you out.

I think at this point my time is better served listening to me music.

I started another thread on something similar and I apologize for cross posting this, but while we are at it, what is the theory behind digital and analog power cords? And HIGH current digital cables? If power cords truly make a difference, does the type of power cord, analog vs digital, make the next difference? Are there such a thing as high current CDPs?

Hey, has anyone tried direct wiring their system components into the house wiring and bypassed all use of so called detachable power cords at the wall and the component? Also, removed all circuit breakers as well between the power company and the house.

In fact why not have the spouse get on an exercise bike with generator (maybe 120 Watts for about 30 minutes, good workout) and power the system completely off the grid via solid 10 gauge copper monofilament directly into the components. And first run this off-the-grid current through a power plant that completely reregulates/regenerates the AC from a DC voltage source. Lets' get down to doing this correctly once and for all.

How about a local audiophile society that gets on the community treadmill several times week and that treadmill generates clean power for all subscribers'/exercisers' systems. Our ears will hear better and we will have enhanced the listening experience because of the true source of the current.

Plus we'll all live longer because, afterall, you can't take it with you.

Kt 88:
You sound like the "enlightened" individuals who think the moniker "Corona" is referring to a Mexican beer.

KT88, thinking of snakes,

Did you read about that python they found in Indonesia? i think it was indonesia.

Anyways, this thing is the biggest snake ever found. The previous record holder was a reticulated python of 33 feet in legnth.This new snake is the same species, 49 feet long, 2.8 feet in diameter, and weighs in just under 1,000lbs.

the local tribe worshiped it as a god.

now, back to the arguement.

:)

Corona,

As I said before, you can contact CJ and see what they think of your stringy cable. Who knows? Maybe they will rename their company " Corona Conrad Johnson " Well maybe........... since your cables are so great, the will completely drop their name and rename the company " Corona "

Yeah, get back to me when you can design " AND SELL " as much quality equipment as CJ.

Hey, aren't you forgetting something? Without the amp, pre, source, your cable is bumming. What good are tires without cars to put them on?

Power cords snake oil? No I don't think that is a correct statement. A snake would never try to sell you it's own oil. The snake needs that oil to stay alive! A snake will sucker you into something it doesn't need, and also you don't need, or even something ( half as good ) to replace what you already have.

Zaikesman:
Good one, it proves there is nothing wrong with your sense of humor.

What can I say Corona? My mind has a mind of its own...

Hmm, maybe this is more of a Dixon-Lerche conjecture. Corona's PCs postulate that, identical properties exist even though none of us seem to agree on them.

Or......

Maybe we all reside in one of the, is it 9 other dimensions, that "String theory" requires exist.

I wonder do these PCs vibrate when you curl them end to end?

Zaikesman:
Your mind has a tendency to live in the shadows; no, that is not reason it happned that way. We could not get the speaker to work properly,we traced the problem to the power cables at this point we realized a more advanced pc was going to be absolutely necessary. Like I said before this process evolved over a 4 year period.

Corona: I have to admit, that is a brilliant stratagem which I'm sure all cable manufacturers would like to institute if they could: Market speakers that are promised to sound correct only with their own wire goods, regardless of what electronics are used (actually, I think there are one or two *speaker* manufacturers who have already pioneered this 'technique'...). Well, why not? - In for a lepton, in for a molecule, I always say!

Mr. Corona,
Did I miss the name of your power cable in this discussion, or is it still under development?
If I did miss it, somehow, apologies. Could you repeat it?

Thank you.

Slappy:
"Cinnamon chicken cigar";could you expand on this subject a little more?

Kt 88:
So you think installing a "FIXED PC" to audio gear is a real clever idea?

Corona,

I'm assuming your referring to the good folks at Conrad Johnson when you made the statement below?

"Circuit heads" don't "get" physics. I deal with these guys all the time; "

Conrad Johnson is not my favorite audio gear, but I have listened to enough of their equipment to know... They are much more intelligent then to be referred to as " circuit heads " They build high quality audio equipment, and they have sold a ton of it? Why don't you call Conrad Johnson and ask them if you can come and prove your theory to them? I'm sure they will be jumping for joy! But in the mean time perhaps you shouldn't bad mouth a very reputable audio company.

Get back to me when your stringy cable has accomplished half of what Conrad Johnson has accomplished.

Slappy, for a guy who thinks he knows what he's talking about, your cinnamon chicken cigar post sure doesent make sence.

Zaikesman:
Anything connected to the system with the "Direct Drive" speakers in place, that does not have incredibly low distortion levels will have that imperfection announced loud and without any cause for doubt. The speakers were intended for those who already have our cables; they will not work with lesser designs.

Corona: For a guy who thinks he knows what he's talking about, you certainly have a very persnickety speaker there...

Clueless:
For a guy who admits he does not know what he is talking about, you certainly have some very strong opinions.

Well I doubt if I qualify as a "circuit head" but I always thought basic circuitry (electromagnetisms, fields, etc) was physics. Silly me.

Lets see Corona. First you resort to "string theory", a theory that has almost no practical application and is entirely unfinished mathmatics (with several versions at the monent) to justify simple propositions that do not at all require it.

above >>>The following would not be supported by String Theory.
1. Building a cable without any consideration of the field that surrounds the conductor.
2. Designing a power cable as an isolated entity as if is has no bearing on the performance of the speaker,amp,etc
3. Claiming that electrical and mechanical resonances are mutually exclusive phenomena.
4. Claiming inductance, capacitance, resistance are the central issues in all cable design....>>>>

Right;--gee... us stupid circuit heads haven't figured those out! Do fields really surround a wire-I thought those twisted pairs just looked nice! And wire has an effect down the circuit??...thanks for the enlightenment. You string theory guys really know your stuff!

If you had used a "garden variety" type of physics-dealing with photons - phonons, etc.. QED or somethng that is actually understood, and backed it up with something, you might have found a different reception.

Your appeal to string theory is just grandstanding and now folks who disagree with you just don't get basic physics and are simpletons afraid of "free thinkers" like yourself. If you want to study resonance in audio good! But string theory ain't gonna help.

I like to keep an open mind - but not so much that my brains fall out.

Ya..I know what some of you are thinking. Clueless gets New Years day off and he has too much egg-nog already.

You're right!

I remain,

rats@mong.us:
The amount of distortion generated by traditional cables is huge.
We have just completed a ported dynamic driver type speaker with no x-over. The speaker will not perform well at all without our new power cable design feeding the electronics. The problem is that acute. This speaker is the results of 4 years of hard research.

Kt88:
"Circuit heads" don't "get" physics. I deal with these guys all the time; you can't use architecture to design an amplifier and you can't use electrical engineering to design an audio cable. It's that simple!

Kt88...That IEC connector itself is probably a bigger problem than the use of #14 zip cord. Hard soldered to the power transformer primary wires is obviously the way to go.

Breaking the stride for a moment, and getting back to the original question......... If power cords are so very important, and my amp, preamp etc needs that $1000+ cord to make it sound that much better. Then can somebody please tell me why Conrad Johnson is still installing " FIXED " PC's to their equipment? Surely a company with their expertise and knowledge would be installing IEC connectors on their equipment if they thought it would make a great sonic improvment?

But then maybe they haven't heard of that rope theory yet :)

Oh good grief - Yes Corona, you're Orville and Wilbur reincarnate...Well, Happy New Year everybody, I'm off to floss my teeth with String Theory and then it's nitey-nite time, when I curl up underneath my appealingly familiar security blanket and close my eyes...

I still wonder what does the power cord do that couldn't be fixed in the power supply.

That would be my first quest if I found a majik cord.

It would also helpexplain to customers what they were buying.

steve

At times it does seem that change is moving very slow. This is because most people are not in search of it. Most are content with the same old thing wrapped in a new container; so this is what we get. I think there is a sense of security with the known and many find that appealing. When the Wright Brothers flew the first plane the public reaction was not one of joy but one of shock; brought on by a belief that the feat could not be done. New and creative ideas are usually met with indifference or disbelief; this has been the norm throughout history.

well who knows? as newer areas of science develop we may find it has a major impact to our own endeavors.

I personally dont expect and dramatic breakthroughs that will make fantastic changes to amps, cords, or whatever.

However, anyone who will state that "there is nothing more to learn from something" did not look hard enough

I remember hearing a quote, i cannot remember who said it but it was quite some time ago, around the Thomas Edison days. It was a disginuished political figure and a well respected intellect of the time.
He stated that "Everything that can be invented, has been invented". I wish i knew who said that.

Either way, there is always new things to learn.

Maybe it's a semantic argument, but in a sense I agree with Nrchy that nothing is completely understood, but the current model of electro-magnetic behavior at non-relativistic speeds and non-absolute zero temps is quite comprehensive. As a scientific endeavor the design of audio spectrum amplifiers is trivial, roughly equivalent to designing a refrigerator.

I got a couple amplifier design and construction books authored by G Randy Slone, Ive only browsed through them, and im no electrical engineer, but SS amplifier designs are not exactly complicated. It is all basic electronics.

Im sure that Quantum physics which has been accepted as fact, will have SOMETHING to do within the spectrum of electrical sciences, but basically you construct it and it works, and it is known why.
Im not sure i understand the relation of mystic and unknown powers of the universe that people keep trying to tag onto an amplifier, wire, or whatever else.

I understand the idea that a high end power cable might have some good filtering attributes from it, but i still think that this entire debate is somewhat useless because some people have better power being fed into thier homes than other people do.

Maybe if you have clean power and a good power cord you can hear a difference, or maybe you cannot. Maybe you can only hear a difference if you have crappy power.

Maybe they fact that some people hear differences depends on the magnetic fields in the earth. Who knows.

The fact is this, if two people buy a $400 power cable, one of them claims to hear a great difference in sound and the other claims to not hear anything different, i refuse to believe that one of them "Isnt hearing right" Personally i would be more to lean to puyt merit in the person who states he cannot hear any difference, because it DOES sound like the other guy is trying to justify an expence while the other guy chalks it off as a mistake.

The world of High Fidelity 2 channel audio is not exactly making leaps and bounds of technical advancements. It is more of different configurations, or slight modifications.

Seeing as how i have never used a high end power cord, i cannot totally discount thier sonic benefit.

There are 2 groups of people. Those who hear the differences and those who dont.

Maybe instead of claiming mystical forces, other factors should be looked at for explanation. It could be alot of different things and it could probably be explained if looked at the right way, and there is nothing as far as i see to indicate some strange mysterious things happening in the power cable itself.

I would look more at geographical location, look for electromagnetic lines (way lines)in the earth, look at the distance and quality of power and lines in the persons house, or how many people share that grid. Does your house have alot of metal in it? what is used for your main ground? will the equipment you are running actually even benefit from the power cord? Maybe some equipment does and some doesent.

seems like alot of finger pointing and name calling. Not much mutual interest in getting to the bottom of this mystery.

You might find that the altitude in colorado puts a system a little close to the electromagnetic shield and differences cannot be heared, while in florida they can.

who knows?

All this badgering and name calling isnt going to get to the bottom of this, and sometimes things work a certain way for resons beyond the component itself.

there is a practical explanation to everything, and i dont see the benefit to pass it along as faith in the unknown.

I would like to see what happens when the non believers hear a comparison in a believers house, and vica verca.

Sum it up, add it up, locate it and pin it. The answer is there, and it is nothing fantastic or beyong comprehension, it is something nobody thought to look at yet.

Nrchy:
Right on target.