Power conditioner help

Arsh....I have an EP 2050 that I had an electrician wire into the main panel after a surge took out one of my Vandersteen amps.....  The lights give me satisfaction that its working....the sound of the system improved...not dramatically, but an improvement never the less.

Thanks Stringreen. That's good to know.

You may want to try an Isolation transformer. Balanced power is what studios and professional musicians use. Much cheaper then the options you suggested.

Thanks miko71.

Try unplugging all of them and listening without power conditioners...just good wall plugs and power cords.

We just finished the rebuild of one of the lower powered Elgars (which is to say that it handles 1000 VA; about 8.5 amps at 117V).

It regulates the line voltage such that with 100 - 130 volts input, the output is rock stable, with no distortion of the AC waveform output. We ran a pair of our M-60s on it- pretty nice; no 'high end audio' conditioner even comes close.

Before I became aware of these conditioners (thanks to Michael Percy) we were constantly running into the problem of our amps sounding **worse** on most 'high end' conditioners; at best no difference.

Given that in high end audio, price for performance is often no object, it really puzzles me why no-one makes a decent power conditioner, but that's how it is. Most of them are a waste of money. One thing that really gets me is how a glorified power strip is supposed to help- now you are forcing everything on the box to run through the single power cord that feeds the box. You're pretty well guaranteed some sort of power sag. So unless you're really serious about getting a decent power conditioner, you're probably a lot better off just getting decent power cords and making sure you have good quality AC outlets in your audio room, per stringreen's comment above. 

Miko's suggestion can be improved upon. An isolation transformer would be beneficial; 2 would be better. 1 for your digital player and 1 for analog source; however "balanced transformers" like Equitech are better yet. You should read their tech info and particularly review their customer list.

Atmaspere; nice to hear your thank you to Michael Percy. My experience with him goes back to the early 90's and I've appreciated his knowledge and integrity.

sorry.for mis-spelling. Atmasphere.

An isolation transformer would be beneficial; 2 would be better. 1 for your digital player and 1 for analog source; however "balanced transformers" like Equitech are better yet.

An isolation transfomer that is being used as a passive device will contribute harmonic distortion to the AC output if loaded past about 50% of their rated capacity. One should always observe this characteristic when using isolation transformers! Otherwise the resulting harmonic distortion (particularly the 5th harmonic) can have highly deleterious effects.

For those with an interest in this topic, Fluke has published a number of papers on the topic over the last 20 years. Here is a good example:
http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/1260362_6003_ENG_K_W.PDF

Atmaspere; nice to hear your thank you to Michael Percy. My experience with him goes back to the early 90's and I've appreciated his knowledge and integrity.

One time when I was visiting Michael he was servicing out one of the Elgars similar to the type I mentioned earlier. That was over 25 years ago! That these conditioners hold their value as well as they do says something.

There is a wealth of information here. Atmasphere, where does get one of these Elgars now?

Ebay and Valuetronics are two good sources.

From Atmasphere "An isolation transfomer that is being used as a passive device will contribute harmonic distortion to the AC output....  "  I suggest we must also keep in mind transformer impedance drops whenever it's used at less than rated capacity.. 
Another challenge for transformers is the multitude of AC line harmonics coming into homes , and harmonics being generated by electrical devices within homes,from laptops to phone chargers to microwaves. I feel 
"Electro-Pollution" concerns will be increasing to average consumers in the near future. GREENWAVE is one company focused on this.The newer 'noise sniffers' I see becoming rental products. I much appreciate products like Equitech's Q series of balanced transformers with additional noise filtering. I think any balanced transformer, actually any transformer, would benefit greatly from a reduction in incoming ac line harmonics; just as industrial users do. Suggestions atmasphere?

Thanks Atmasphere, and everyone else as well for a very informative discussion so far. I have a lot of homework to do.

I think any balanced transformer, actually any transformer, would benefit greatly from a reduction in incoming ac line harmonics; just as industrial users do. Suggestions atmasphere?

Of course! Line harmonics are quite deleterious to transformer operation.

The Elgar so far is one of the few conditioners I have seen that can actually filter out line harmonics, but if you have an Elgar, no need for a transformer after it!

arsh-

just catching up on this thread- are you still using/enjoying the Transparent?

Happy Listening!

I have a Elgar 3006B for Sale if anyone is still interested, its Refurbished up to spec. 3500 watts so it can handle your whole system with out fuss.

Jafant, yes I am using the PIR with MM2x power cord and an XLPC on my amp. The CDP and phono stage have Ref MM2x power cords also.  The system sounds fantastic, and I am very happy with them, but intrigued with the Elgar. dragon_vibe, how much are you asking for yours?

Mine was Refurbished by Atma-Sphere. Actually the unit was in very good condition to start with. Ralph went ahead and gave it new output capacitors and reseated alot of the transistors on board. It works perfectly fine and up to spec.

Asking price is $4680.00 US dollars Not including Paypal or delivery. It can be picked up from Atma-Sphere. It weights Almost 200lbs. 

Mine is 240V Input and 130V output which is perfect for USA Homes.

Your incoming line is 240V but then the voltage is split at your main box. This would ideally sit at the box area away from the Music room. You would then run your power line from the Elgar into the Music Room. Up to 6 Dedicated Lines is possible.

You can purchase it directly from Atma-sphere by paying them and arranging collection if your interested. Considering the fact someone was selling another unit for 5000 dollars in-refurbished this one is an excellent value.

Thanks dragon_vibe. I didn't realize that it had to be setup that way.

Its usually installed at your main box Panel. From that point you can run dedicated Power Cables to your listening room which can be either connected to your wall socket or a free standing power cable connected to a distribution box for all your audio gear.

This is a permanent installation and best kept outside of your listening room.

Thanks dragon_vibe. Where can I see a picture of one of these things?

Thanks Ralph and very best wishes for full recovery from the accident. 

You can Google this, Or you may call Ralph at Atma-Sphere and ask him to send you a pictures of the unit he has.

alternatively email me i will send you one.

Their is one being sold on Ebay few weeks back for 5000 dollars but that's not guaranteed to work and its not tested or refurbished.

Untested Beaten up units could sell for far less, but i guess if you decided to get them refurbished your self it would end up costing a lot more.

Frankly speaking you either use a industrial type of unit such as a Elgar or just forget about getting a power condition as these so called high end audio power conditioner will never cut it.

Thanks again, dragon_vibe.

I would not use a Transparent conditioner, given my dealer has one. I don't hear the great crescendos that live music presents, and I've had their Ultra speaker cable (from 1994), then their Reference speaker cable ('96) them the MM1 2004 and MM2 (2008). Transparent's sound seems a little 'quiet' on transients.
I have had several of PS Audio's power regenerators: P300, P600 and the newer line of generators that came out in 2009. also an Audience aR2p, and then the Audience 6 outlet Teflon model. I also have Shunyata's PS8, along with a P300 now. I can only say that, hooked up to a 100,000+ system, the overall sound is good, but not quite $100k good. I loaned my dealer Stillpoints, which I put under the Transparent conditioner, and he looked at me wildly (once we hit "play" on the ARC CD player, hooked up to the ARC $14,000 preamp, Alexia speakers and the ARC 75 watt amp) and said, "you are NOT getting those things back....what ARE they??? I told him they were Stillpoints Ultra Mini Risers. 
I think the PS Audio brings music to live more, but that could just be my dealer's imperfect setup.