I had my Naim 300 amp updated to the "DR" version several months ago. Major changes in the way the amp sounds, and that has caused lots of problems with my Thiels - I was hearing nasty highs and glassy mids. after the amp update. I initially thought there was a problem with my speakers, but after burning-in the amp 24/7 for over two months now, things are getting better but there are still issues. I still haven't decided how to proceed - new speakers (but the Thiel 3.6s are just so good) or try different speaker cables and keep cooking the amp.
I'm trying to keep the saying "the fun is in the journey" top-of-mind! |
I own the EB1i for a year now and they still give me a daily chub. Check out my rig page. Yours will move also.
Owned the Fact 8s for a year prior to that. Wanted the same sound but with 3x the paprika. And lo.
I got mine for a PMC / Bryston dealer in Winnipeg, gave me a rocking deal (mine were a few years used) with warranty still. |
This "hobby"/disease/perversion/OCD/etc. is so dam addictive!
However I've found it's not as much fun now that I'm "over-50" in having to drive long distances to far-away dealers, having to be subjected and get past the BS that many dealers push at you, and trying to arrange a listening session for a specific speaker. Then it's dealing with listening fatigue and the stress of knowing that a wrong decision can be very expensive...the more I think about it, the more I find It's preferable to just hang on to your current equipment and be happy with it. Based on the listening I have done in the last few months, enjoying what you have may be better than striving for what you don't.
Anyone agree?
|
I have a pair of PMC IB2 SE in a 11 1/2 by 18 foot room with 8 foot ceiling. It took me a while to add appropriate absorption and diffusion and dial them in. They are toed in to meet just in front of the listener and that brought everything into focus. Yours being 14.25 by 17.5 and high ceilings should be much easier. I am not sure what model you might try in your price range. I found that synergy between components was also key to optimizing the IB2's but speaker placement/aiming trumped all other gains. |
@rosami ,If you are using and like the Naim, I really suggest that you seek out and listen to some ProAcs. That is the combination lot of people like. I know, I have a bias for ProAcs :-)
|
...so I guess there’s no substitute for listening to as many speakers as possible - yet we still make the “wrong” decisions too often. It’s pretty much a no-win game - listening to different speakers driven by an almost infinite number of component/cable combinations, in widely differing rooms, and trying to listen-past dealers who will say almost anything to get the customer to buy what they push.
It’s no wonder there’s such a huge used-components marketplace, as audiophiles continue to search for the holy grail.
Fun hobby!
|
It all depends on your mix of priorities. Imaging and soundstaging are important to me. I also happen to like speakers that are a little more laid back, in the sense that the soundstage starts at or behind the plane of the drivers and extends back from there a good way. Timbral accuracy obviously important, though I err slightly to the warm/forgiving side--many modern speakers I find unforgiving. Then there's bass extension. Ideally I want a little more than the Twenty.24's give me--hence my regret re. the '26's. I've heard this about first-orders before, but I believe it's part of an overall brew/cocktail of ingredients, so one can't just take that one feature and use it as a decisive or absolute criterion to separate the sheep from the goats (or the "good" speakers from the others). |
Twoleftears
I’m driving my Thiel CS3.6s with a Naim NAP300 amp - it drives the difficult load of the Thiels very well.
I believe the Thiels are the only Speakers on your list that have first order crossovers. Do the B&Ws, ProAcs, or PMCs do as well as the Thiels in focusing singers and instruments within the soundstage - and is this something you look for in a speaker?
Thanks. |
Twoleftears
I’m driving my Thiel CS3.6s with a Naim NAP300. This amp drives the Thiels very well.
It’s interesting that you switched from Thiels to several other brands - none of which has a first-order crossover.
I like speakers that can accurately locate a singer or instrument in the soundstage, with correct “size” - and I don’t like speakers that make a singer or instrument seem larger than life. Thiels image and, more importantly, focus very well-to a large degree due to their first-order crossovers. I don’t believe B&W, Proac, or PMCs have first-order crossovers. Are they able to also portray pinpoint imaging - and is that s quality you look for in a speaker?
Thanks. |
@rosami What are you driving the Thiels with? I endorse Milpai's advice. BTW, I went from B&W to Thiels to ProAc, then to PMC. Spendors are the other obvious one for you to listen to, but again there's limited availability. Try if you can to hear the Classic series, ideally the Classic 100. It's slightly more lively than the Harbeth, but cut from similar cloth. |
Milpai
I completely agree that listening to any speaker is a must. I’ve read many opinions in these forums on various speakers and disagree with some and agree with others. There’s no substitute for listening to any speakers of interest. The problem is the differences in the various dealers rooms and electronics, and short “memory” when listening on different days.
The search continues ...
|
@rosami ,If it is possible, try to go a city like Chicago, New York, San Francisco etc and spend an entire day to audition your selected loudspeaker.The reason is, sometimes we have a preconceived notion based on user feedback, but when you YOURSELF listen to the speakers, it turns out to be something different.One of the posters here knows this very well because I told him how much I loved my ProAc D48R. But he was not thrilled by them. Instead h liked the Harbeth line of speakers.It is absolutely worthwhile that you listen to the loudspeakers in person.
|
There’s also the possibility I’ll just keep my Thiel 3.6s since I have to get the tweeters rebuilt. Decisions!
|
I also heard and really like the Vandersteen Treos but I’m not sure they’ll have sufficient bass for my room (medium size 14.25x17.5 w/cathedral ceiling.
|
I listened to the passive ATC SCM19s and really liked them but want to hear the passive SCM40s but no area dealers stock them. ATC and PCM brands have really limited availability and that may bd a concern.
Geek101. Did you hear both? Why do you say ATC is a much better alternative? |
Did you consider or listen to ATC?. Much better alternative to PMC. |
After an extensive search a few years ago, I ended up with the Twenty.24's. They're a very good speaker that very few people have heard. I liked them more than the Facts (slightly warmer/more forgiving). I'm kicking myself for not going for the '26's, as I could have kept those for a long time. The rumor has gone around more than once that with the introduction of the TwentyFive line, the Twenty's were going away. You might be able to get a sweet deal on the Twenty.26's. |
You may want to look at the Proac D-48R. It might tick a lot of the boxes you listed.
|
Hi Folks — thanks for the feedback so far.
Milpai’s comment about my not providing enough info regarding what Im looking for Is well taken. I’m looking for a speaker that is able to image well, has pinpoint focus, tight, clean, no bass overhang, full range, floorstanding/reasonably sized, and is priced at/below $10K. I think PMC Twenty series may be appropriate but perhaps their other consumer series are also possibilities.
I think ATC SCM40s are a prime competitor.
Distribution is limited but I contacted the distributor and they were actually very responsive and located a custom install dealer about 70 miles from me so I plan to get in touch with them when I have time.
I’ve heard Vandersteen Quattros and for me they do it all, but price and need for high-pass crossover are problems.
Any other feedback appreciated.
|
I have fact.8s in my bedroom system and keithtexas described them perfectly. They do not have deep, deep bass, but enough in my room to do the music I listen to justice. They throw a nice wide soundstage and are fast and extremely accurate. Build quality is top notch, though they may look a bit drab, but the narrow fascia works well in my room and allow them to disappear both visually and sonically.
|
@rosami From your post, I assumed that you were referring to what PMC is currently calling their SE series, where the designs are closer cousins to their professional offerings. On A'gon you're more likely find owners of Fact, TwentyFive, or Twenty series models. Unless you happen to live in one of the few cities with a PMC dealer, e.g. Seattle, it's a tricky business.
|
I live in the Houston area and had the PB1i speakers for a few years. Great soundstage, top to bottom accuracy and ruler flat on and off axis dispersion, and amazingly clear midrange. I sold them a few months ago, more just to try something new than anything else. I liked them so well I was considering active PMCs or ATCs. Once you've heard that dome midrange, everything else seems a little veiled. I did go speak to the authorized seller here about having the Bryston amps installed to make my speakers active. Would have involved shipping to Dallas and several thousand dollars so I decided against that at the time. Regardless of model, I think all PMC speakers will sound clean and clear, though the transmission line bass is faster and subjectively less deep than bass reflex designs. I have subwoofers so bass was never an issue. Some people have panned them because they are expensive for what appear to be pretty basic box speakers. But when people hear them, the clarity can be a bit startling, and they would invariably say "those SOUND expensive". |
I have a tough time getting the PMC authorized seller for Houston to even respond to my interest in Twenty25 23. I have a preference for British speakers and read wonderful reviews about them. Maybe this is part of the reason PMC has low market share or awareness here as no one responded to your thread. I am looking at Spendor now. Sorry I did not help here. Someone who has PMC experience please respond. |
There are a few here who own and love their PMCs. Did you try to look up the "system" page and reach out to the owners? You question is too open. What kind of feedback are you expecting? Compared to what brands? Etc.
|
