While RMAF presents you with the ability to look at many different speaker products under one roof, the sound in many of the rooms leaves a bit to be desired. If I were auditioning speakers this would be the last place I would do it at. On the other hand, if the speaker designers are on hand it gives you a chance to interact with them first hand and the event is a lot of fun.
Please help with speaker choices
Hi all,
Well the room and time has lead me down the road to upgrading speakers. A most exciting time, but alas, filled with choices and no possible auditioning for me.
So I must relie on this communities suggestions and help!!
First the current system:
Nick Doshi Preamp
Nick Doshi modded Lectron JH50
Amazon Referenze TT
Triplanar Tonearm
CDP-Don't have one yet
Focal 1007 Be Monitors-current speakers
Room Size:
21 by 13 with 8ft cellings
Music:
I listen to pretty much everything. Sorry for being so general. In one listening session I may move from Coltrane, to Cannonball Adderly, to Muddy Waters and Johnny Lee Hooker to Lucinda Williams and electric/folk Neil Young. Throw in some Dylan and then move onto the White Stripes, Beck, if I'm real rowdy maybe some Ramones or AC/DC, then come down with some Edith Piaf and a sip of 12 year single malt.
Reason for wantng change:
One is I find this a hobby. For me that means having fun with experimentation. So far I have only owned the Focals.
Two is now that I moved my system against the short wall and facing out to the long part of the room, the monitors seems lacking, like they are too small to fill the space, like it is too much effort. Three is I have nerver had a floorstanding speaker and the prospect excites me. Four is, sitting wise, I can only get about 9 feet near to the Focals. To place them closer puts them right in the middle of the living room. Not really acceptable. At 9 feet, the monitors just not presenting the soundstage I desire. At that distance with monitors, I am just not in the heart of the music.
Also something important to note is I like listening loud, but do not always have that option as my system is in the living room and out of respect for others cannot always listen loud so I must have speakers that offer low volume detail.
My choices so far (more of course welcome)
Sonus Faber Cremona floorstanders
Merlin VSM-Mxe
Verity Fidelio Encore
ATC 20's passive
At the higher end(only consider if HIGHLY recommended)
Verity Parsifal ovation
Sonus Faber Amati Homage
Monitors I might consider
Focal Mini-Utopia Be
Sonus Guarnari Homage
OK, sorry for rambling so much. Obviously I am putting a lot of thought into this. Any input much appreciated!
Peter
Well the room and time has lead me down the road to upgrading speakers. A most exciting time, but alas, filled with choices and no possible auditioning for me.
So I must relie on this communities suggestions and help!!
First the current system:
Nick Doshi Preamp
Nick Doshi modded Lectron JH50
Amazon Referenze TT
Triplanar Tonearm
CDP-Don't have one yet
Focal 1007 Be Monitors-current speakers
Room Size:
21 by 13 with 8ft cellings
Music:
I listen to pretty much everything. Sorry for being so general. In one listening session I may move from Coltrane, to Cannonball Adderly, to Muddy Waters and Johnny Lee Hooker to Lucinda Williams and electric/folk Neil Young. Throw in some Dylan and then move onto the White Stripes, Beck, if I'm real rowdy maybe some Ramones or AC/DC, then come down with some Edith Piaf and a sip of 12 year single malt.
Reason for wantng change:
One is I find this a hobby. For me that means having fun with experimentation. So far I have only owned the Focals.
Two is now that I moved my system against the short wall and facing out to the long part of the room, the monitors seems lacking, like they are too small to fill the space, like it is too much effort. Three is I have nerver had a floorstanding speaker and the prospect excites me. Four is, sitting wise, I can only get about 9 feet near to the Focals. To place them closer puts them right in the middle of the living room. Not really acceptable. At 9 feet, the monitors just not presenting the soundstage I desire. At that distance with monitors, I am just not in the heart of the music.
Also something important to note is I like listening loud, but do not always have that option as my system is in the living room and out of respect for others cannot always listen loud so I must have speakers that offer low volume detail.
My choices so far (more of course welcome)
Sonus Faber Cremona floorstanders
Merlin VSM-Mxe
Verity Fidelio Encore
ATC 20's passive
At the higher end(only consider if HIGHLY recommended)
Verity Parsifal ovation
Sonus Faber Amati Homage
Monitors I might consider
Focal Mini-Utopia Be
Sonus Guarnari Homage
OK, sorry for rambling so much. Obviously I am putting a lot of thought into this. Any input much appreciated!
Peter
68 responses Add your response
I have a local Sonus Faber dealer. I am not sure if I've specifically heard the Cremonas, but I've heard several SF speakers and I've liked them all. They have a family signature that I like a lot. SF manages to give you a fine musical perspective and lots of perceived linearity and clarity, while never sounding clinical. They are always musical and engaging, regardless of musical type and they're tolerant of differing levels of source quality. Here's a Stereophile review of the Cremonas by John Atkinson. And if you're looking for aesthetic appeal, Sonus Faber leads the way. They invented that staved construction which is being copied so much. They use unusual combinations of materials and they're very finely finished. I'd do my house in Sonus Fabers in a heartbeat if I could afford to. A narrow or small baffle eliminates diffraction distortion (soundwaves bouncing off the front baffle) which results in a pinpoint sort of imaging where the speakers disappear and a 3-d image floats in space. The floor-standing Cremonas have a narrow front baffle; it's the stand-mount Extremas that have almost no front baffle. There's a pair in the closed auctions on eBay, priced at $7000 with stands (they were about $12K new + $1500 for factory stands) that had no bids here. |
here's something that might help suggestions. There are two recordings that I want to make sound really good. One is Lucinda Williams West and the other Is Neil Youngs recient releases of live shows the Fillmore and massey hall. If I could make those really sing, then I'd be a happy man. Does that help? Peter |
Peter, Nick's components are essentially neutral, neither warm and fuzzy nor cool and analytical. Of course like any tube component you can easily make them a little (or a lot) warmer simply by switching tubes. It's easy to add warmth to a system. In addition to tubes, there are warm sounding interconnects, speaker cables, cartridges, turntable belts and tweaks of every description. It's not so easy to remove warmth (or any coloration) if it's inherent in a major component. I could make my system sound warmer in a hundred ways, many of them quick, inexpensive and easily reversible. (If I used an Amazon turntable belt instead of my mylar tape I'd add warmth, to name an example you can look at.) But to make an inherently warm component sound natural, neutral and transparent usually requires replacing it. I guees I'm just saying, be careful not to go too far. High end analog doesn't require added warmth to avoid digital nastiness. Go warm only if you're sure that's what you want. |
Got ya on that one Doug, and that is what I am wary with in terms of the verty's and the Merlin's. The audio physics, I'm not sure, never heard them described as warm but again, I have not heard them personally. I'm pretty sure the ATC's will not be described as warm.? Doug, please tell me how the Amazon belt vs. your mylar belt can be described as warm. I am curious as to how a piece of small thread can add warmth? Thanks |
Peter, You asked: why would you choose the Veritys? Like Ray said, "it's the sound man, how does it SOUND!" I am not a technocrat and have limited experience compared to many audiofools. I own Avalon Eclipses, and Audio Physic Virgos (both way below your budget) powered by 70 watt mono tube amps.I am happy, especially with vinyl. I belong to a group of foos. We get together every other month and try to enjoy the music, usually turns into listening to equipment, unfortunately. In one system, probably due to room issues, I find the Cremonas lacking. I feel that properly set they are very capable- just haven't heard it myself. BTW, on Tuesday I heard SF Pianos. I'd like a pair. Made music out of Choral and Opera. I have never cared for it, now I am interested. In another system, we have Avalon Ascents powered by BAT VK 60 monos in a big room. The sound is fabulous. Definitley full range. In another system the Verity Parsifals powered by Joule amps and pre. The room is med/small. In this system I feel as though I can see, feel, touch the musicians. All the stuff about attack, decay... is there. The woofers are rear facing. This one is by far what Ray is talking about- "how do it sound, man!?!?!" (See the documentary The Language of Music). If I could, I'd take the "plunge" with "Marias" money and get the Veritys. Nothing technical, just the sound. In the system I'm familiar with, it feels as though I am at a live performance. In the next room is an even more impressive (expensive) system. But to my ears the Veritys with the Joules are 'mo better, 'mo fantabulous. Take a few hundred and fly out to some audio rooms (come on guys, invite him over) and listen to some systems. I'm sure some of these fools would let you listen for yourself. You'll still have the $ to make the purchase. That's my 3 cents. |
Inspiring words Oregon and much appreciated. Although in some estimation, it is unfortunate to just listen to equipment, it must be great to be able to listen to and expereince such a range of different set-ups. See that where my expereince lacks. I live in Montana. Cold winters. Short growing season. Seems aperfect combo for listening to music. Long dark cold days. Yet most here are poor and spending what I am considering spending and have spent is ludicrious as well as impossible. Somehow I have saved, worked hard and had some luck so i am able. maybe it is priority. I drive a car that cost less than some cables I hace bought. Thats ok with me, because "its the sound man." Let me ask you Oregon, were you listening to the parsifal encores or ovations. I have heard there is a difference and in my budget only the encores are possible. However, thanks for the vote of confidence with the verty's. Speakers I have always been attracted to simply based on reviews. Which, with you good fellows input is all I have to go on. Thanks again. I ahve never spent so much time on such a confusing choice. Usually I am such a straight forward kinds of guy. But speaker choices. man who knew it would be more complicated than which type of cattle to invest in:-). Peter |
I would not describe the larger Audio Physic speakers as warm though they will reveal the character of the electronics driving them. Mid-field positioning is a near necessity for full appreciation of their virtues. That means out into the room, typically closer to the listening position than the back wall. In very rough terms if your couch or chair is against the wall, imagine your room divided in thirds, with two-thirds of the room behind the speakers. On well produced orchestral recordings all the action happens in the space between the the speakers and the back wall. Proper positioning coupled with a narrow baffle bring precise time/phase coherence that yields, among other things, delightfully dimensional imaging. Considering your room description I doubt they could work for you without some serious commitment of living room space. From your system pictures I would ask if your room requires your speakers to book-end your equipment table? And from your list I'd be inclined toward the Parsifals, but I don't know the boutique electronics so cannot gauge synergy. Or, how about a pair of Wilson Sophias? Have fun with your search! Tim |
Alcohol it is!! Tim thanks for the decription. That was going to be my next series of questions, given my room constraints how do folks see certain speakers fitting into my space. There are severqal issues. Facing the speakers, the one on the right can only get about 2.5 ft off the long wall. On the left side, its about 5 ft to the long wall. Both speakers, because my couch splits the room basically in half, can only be about 2.5 feet off the wall. That might make for far field listening, me sitting about 10 feet from the speakers. I wish I could get more off the wall, but my better half does not want them sticking out into the room to much and honestly the way our living space is set-up to bring them further into the room really almost puts the left speaker right in the entry way, which sits on the left side of the room. So I have to ask, condiering those contraints which in the suggested does well with those contraints. Also, i have a question about room accustics. When I clap my hands in the room, I hear a definate echo. Does that mean I need more dampening to remove that echo? Thanks for the advice, Peter |
2.5 feet is bad. You may benefit in LF do to room gain. But you might think twice about any rear-ported speakers. Your speakers will be about 7 feet apart, which also isn't bad for the 10' distance. Once you have them setup you may talk the wife into moving the listening position forward or back a foot or so to hit the sweet spot. How long does the clap echo last? A couple of reverberations isn't too big of a deal. You don't want the room too dead. Now, if the clap really bounces around you could add some plants, stuffed chairs, pillows, etc. I doubt you'll ever get the wife to agree to bass traps, corner traps, and all that other acoustic treatment stuff. |
Oh thanks there Dan. I was worried for a moment there. 2.5-3 feet is all I got!! So nop rear-ported speakers eh? Does that rule out the verty's? I can turn the base around to face out, although I have had people tell me it sounds better firing against the wall? The reverberation from the clap is quick and dies solidly with out any continuing echos. So that might be alright? Wife will probably not be interested in any type of acousric treatments, but plants, pillows, ok! Whats "you may benefit from LF do to room gain" mean? Cheers |
Hi Peter. I have been following this blog for a little while. I think I made an entry myself early on. I just want to say to you that I am totally blown away by your gracious response to everyones blogs. You are a model of what civilized behavior should be about. Thank you for your contributions to this website. Jim |