folkfreak332 posts05-07-2017 2:07pmQuestion to those of you on this thread? Are you using the SR FEQ (or equivalent RF pulse generator) along with your SR or home build resonators? The FEQ really is essential to activate the resonators but is itself mighty sensitive to a) grounding (if you have more than one FEQ make sure they are grounded exactly together) and b) footing -- after much experimentation I have mine on custom symposium bases, the bases themselves on roller blocks Wow, that’s intense. Can you tell us how the activator thing, SR FEQ, works? How can those resonators be possibly activated? Activated vs non-activated resonators??? The inventor must win the Nobel Prize in Acoustics (or in Snake Oiling). |
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Thanks for the links. It seems more like a teamplay (the inventor and reviewers). BTW what's with
Audio Magic room correction bells??? This snake oil industry is amazing... only the sky is the limit.
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Thanks for the links. It seems more like a teamplay (the inventor and reviewers). BTW what's with Audio Magic room correction bells??? This snake oil industry is amazing... only the sky is the limit. If it's a team I suppose I (and all the other satisfied users of these types of products) are all playing along 😉 |
folkfreak
If it’s a team I suppose I (and all the other satisfied users of these types of products) are all playing along
No, you’re not. You’re just a believer.
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Ok so if I’m so gullible and stupid how come just this morning I experimented with swapping out the power cords to my FEQs. My hypothesis was that plugging them into the SR PowerCell would sound better. If I’m a believer isn’t that what I should then have heard?
Fact is it sounded much worse (soundstage flattened and body to voice and instruments diminished). Returned them to the prior outlets (shared with their ground plugs) and all was better again
my point is not to suggest one is better than the other but to observe that I hear clear differences, and not always in the way I expect hence one learns to experiment
if I was a "believer" on what basis would I ever know whether a change was beneficial other than "the team told me so"? |
The SR powercell supplied wrong kind of electricity to the FEQs.
So they failed to activate the resonators.
Very interesting experiment you did this morning. Thanks for sharing.
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Where'd all the trolls come from all of a sudden?
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Per SR: plug FEQ into wall outlet... |
Low post-count trolls, come to save us from ourselves. Hallelujah! I can hear the temple bells chiming!
@folkfreak just ignore this guy. He has 27 posts and does nothing but tell us all how gullible we are. |
Low post-count trolls, come to save us from ourselves. Hallelujah! I can hear the temple bells chiming!
@folkfreak just ignore this guy. He has 27 posts and does nothing but tell us all how gullible we are.
You don’t get it, toddverrone. You’re one of "the trolls" he was mentioning. In fact geoffkait seems to be THE troll on this discussion forum... with 5500 posts. Well, those resonators don’t work. As I mentioned in my previous posts I’ve reached those conclusions based on what I was hearing. But you (or folkfreak) can believe whatever you want to believe. It’s your money. Good luck with your resonators and activators.
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I have a number of the original resonators from Frank, gold and silver.
I used to have a very small listening space and the wall was directly behind the listening position.
It was hard to believe but they really worked, especially behind me to help make the rear wall directly behind me less obtrusive.
Now that I'm in quite a larger listening space with 15' ceilings and about 28feet of width I have the resonators up but haven't critically placed them or even tried to ascertain their benefits by removing them.
One did fall the other day and it rang for what seemed like almost 10 seconds, which surprised me a but.
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Todd, jkbtn,
Hang in there guys. Unfortunately, work around the house not to mention work itself, is casing delays in my ability to get out my final report. The scope of this final report is also adding to the delay as I discuss constuction, material sourcing as well as the head-to-head testing results.
the reason I ask you to hang on is, while jkbtn had a good idea as far as construction goes; when his resonators were compared to other self-made types of resonators they finished way at the back end of the pack. They didn’t even make the cut down to the "six finslistist" list of resonators I re-tested this past weekend. So, I can understand jkbtn could become discouraged. But jkbtn’s cones were a huge help, as you will see.
Todd -in my testing, going smaller did not make results better. To my ears the smaller the self-made resonator the more minuscule the effects.
You can see the six finalists if you look at my System Pictures, here on Audiogon.
So don’t get too down on these, don’t give up, and don’t give/throw away any of your parts. Trust me - I will get this report out.
Toolbox
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Hey, no worries and no hurries. Jkbtn, I’m sorry for being condescending. I have no problem with you not hearing a difference and moving on. But attacking products as snake oil that you’ve never tried, or assuming that, because you didn’t hear a difference, they don’t work and the rest of us are fools is a bit condescending to us.
I was sceptical of cables and outlets. When I heard the difference they made, I decided to not attack things that I may find ridiculous any more. I simply decide if I want to try them, then decide if they work for me. If not, I’ll share my experiences. But I certainly won’t go on a mission to save everyone from snake oil. |
Toolbox - i just looked at the pics of your resonators. It's funny, I just went to Lowes last night and bought 3/8" OD compression caps and made some resonators with them as bases instead of the 3/8" copper pipe caps. It looks like you are using the same thing! I think I like the sound better with the brass compression caps. Plus, they look better. Ha! The difference in ours is that I crush the brass beads/bowls into the caps using a bench vice, instead of gluing..
Interested to read what you heard! |
Todd,
I have stopped pressing my cones into bases and now only use glue. I would be very interested (if you have a couple of jkbtn's 14mm cones) if you would take some Elmers and build two or four temporary models with the cones sticking out, and test them against your press fit models. I'd love to find out if what you hear is the same as I heard.
Oh, and yes, I agree. I'm finding out that big cones are the best and a big bottom can help too.
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Toolbox - I posted some pics of my resonators on my system page. I filed the bowls down so they are flush with the copper caps. They look better and sound the same. I think they sound slightly better, but I think that’s completely expectation bias. I’ll get a few more copper caps and make some glue in resonators and report back. I think I’m single handedly depleting Lowes’ stock of 3/8" copper caps!
What’s blowing my mind with these resonators is how effective they are. I was incredibly sceptical. But man, they’ve helped open up the soundstage loads. And, more importantly and surprisingly, they’ve solved a massive resonance problem I had. My left wall is half floor to ceiling glass doors and half large window. That’s a lot of glass. But our design choices preclude heavy curtains, or, really, curtains of any sort. With my current setup of 18 HFTs, the resonance in the high mids and up is gone. Nice! |
Do any or all of your devices touch the wall surface? Tom |
Todd,
If you filed down the tubular diameter so it was flush with the interior taper as seen in your photos that is a very good thing. From my experience the shape you have selected either by intuition or much listening has little to do with compressive waves but more about wave types that can be dispersed thu solids of a geometric form. Good form makes for better sound. Tom |
Todd,
Those are some good lookin' resonators. You could sell those ;^) I'm becoming a specialist in resonators noone would want to look at.
Speaking of good looking - I love the look of your preamp. Sweet.
Looking at the preamp I see you have a pair of tube dampers on each tube. Underneith the preamp I see some feet that look an aweful lot like Brent Jesse big, brass tube dampers. Am I correct? If so, did you not like them?
I should have my final resonator report out on Wednesday.
Toolbox
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Tom - I have a couple mounted on the wall behind my speakers, pointing towards the listening position. I think, because my speakers are relatively close to my wall, the resonators work well on the speakers and rack pointing towards the wall. It seems to push the soundstage back. But I need to experiment more. Mostly with a SPL meter, as Geoff has suggested..
Toolbox - thanks! What the resonators sound like is definitely more important though.
As for my pre, it sounds great too. :-) Under the pre are some feet I made from large copper pipe caps. I picked them up when buying caps for the resonators. I’m waiting on some brass tipped wooden cones to use instead, the copper legs were an experiment to see if solid feet would sound better than the stock rubber feet.. they do! |
Speaking of SPL meters, having spent more time with resonators of various types and SPL meters than the average bear, I feel it’s only right to mention that resonators are not only effective in various locations on walls of the room -which is almost always where it’s suggested they be placed - but also ANYWHERE in the 3D space of the room where a sound pressure peak happens to be located. And which can be easily found with...you guessed it! - an SPL meter and test tone. By dissipating the unwanted energy of standing waves, reflected waves, echoes, etc. the resonators are reducing the comb filter effects present in an untreated room, including comb filter effects produced by acoustic anomalies in the 3D space of the room. In fact the tiny bowl resonators and similar devices could be hung by string from the ceiling slightly out from the wall and not touching the wall - and be equally effective. In fact, Franck Tchang’s original acoustic resonators were not tightly coupled to the wall, but rested gently on a bracket, presumably so the metal bowls would be free to resonate.
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I have found over the past 15 years or so that the geometry the material and its placement on surface boundaries are the 3 greatest influences of surface control.
If you have placed devices on flat surfaces or walls and you are pleased with the outcome you can take this whole thing to a higher level by removing adhesive damping materials and attaching your device right to the wall or other surface. You can do this with the aid of a threaded insert placed directly into the wall and your device also threaded screwed into the wall. You can now adjust the resonance point on the wall by ever so slightly adjusting the tension of your device to the wall or surface. 1/16 of a turn can be clearly discerned..or even much less depending on the surface.
Same method will also benefit all things internal and external to speakers and electronics. This method gives you more control over all things within your room boundary including the walls. All these devices and surfaces are passive radiators and all make their own sounds. While compressive waves are the largest wave component in any audio room the wave type and boundary area influenced by what Todd and others are reporting on and there greater benefit are not compressive. Tom
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To briefly summarize this discussion of tiny little bowl resonators and similar devices:
A number of applications for these tiny little resonators and transducers have been identified, not only when used directly on objects and room surfaces but in the 3D space of the room, and even when used in other rooms.
1. Vibration of walls and other room surfaces
2. Vibration of component chassis
3. Vibration of speaker cabinets
4. Dissipation of acoustic wave anomalies such as reflected waves and standing waves
5. Dissipation of RFI/EMI energy
We also found that the material itself is important and that pure metals like good, silver and platinum and copper have their own unique sonic signatures. Of course we also know there are a lot of other techniques for calming vibrations on wall, components and speakers, constrained layer dampers like Marigo VTS dots, for example and the out of production Tekna Sonic dampers. You can also give vibrations a chance to escape the confinement of speakers or component simply by placing hard cone on top, point up.
I count at least four manufacturers of these tiny little bowl resonators currently, including your humble scribe. The first of course and the person who should get most of the credit is Franck Tchang who introduced the whole idea around 15 years ago.
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Todd, Very nice indeed. Did you try mounting a ozzinator facing towards the ceiling on the top of each speaker? You might also place a steel bb into that ozzinator. Or perhaps a crystal. ozzy |
On the devices I make that I designed to enhance mechanical grounding of a cello I have measured over a db in gain. In my audio room I place one of the same discs on top of each sound panel with the major feature facing up at the ceiling..I now use a single 3mm or 5mm magnetic sphere that fit nicely in the cup center. I use 1 each on my mono amps same way..the bass is better for sure..on the sound panels the ceiling is lifted. If you use steel bearings in the cup use nothing smaller than s110 or you damp the device. Tom |
Well, now to my last piece of the puzzle - how do the individual transducers or resonators sound?
For my evaluations I used my serious stereo setup for the preliminary testing and then used my secondary set (Sony CD, McIntosh C-28 pre, Adcom 545, and Sony Speakers) for the final two testing sessions. Just to remind you, I play music at a fairly robust volume level - a little below symphony concert level - as if you're sitting in the 20th row, dead center, in a venue that normally seats about three thousand people. The later tests were performed at a slightly lower volume than my usual. Your results probably will vary - especially if you listen at louder or softer volumes.
The initial testing was between the HFTs, four different versions/interpretations of the Ozinators, four versions/interpretations of jkbtn's resonators, and a very complicated resonator I built. I have to say the ultimate differences between the tested prototypes were noticeable but not earth shaking. The final results were comparable to the experience provided by swapping fuses or tube rolling. That said, after all my listening and positioning testing I only found one that was ultimately, acceptable to me.
When I first got started in this effort I made a large amount of a large amount of resonators (almost 100) and succumbed to the idea that more was better. As I have previously posted, eventually I came to the conclusion that less is more. I now only use eight in my serious listening room.
I became interested in do-it-yourself resonators after reading Ozzy's posts about his design and I thought I would also give them a try when I got a good deal on 15 HFTs. Obviously, a great time to do a comparison. While I was waiting for all the Ozinator parts to arrive I also assembled a collection of larger and smaller cones as well as larger and smaller bases. A short time later, jkbtn suggested a different style, larger cone and by the time I was finished I had more than a dozen resonator types to go along with the transducers.
The initial testing was between the HFTs, five versions/interpretations of the Ozinators, four versions/interpretations of jkbtn's resonators, and a very complicated resonator I concocted. I never did get a press fit Ozinator built. Either my cones were too large to be pressed into the bases I had, or they easily slipped into my other sized bases but were loose enough to slip back out. Initially, I bought fly fishing lure cones in three sizes but only used the large cones and ultimately switched to the 3/8” or 9.5mm "Alaska" Brass Cones, since (to my ears) the smaller cone sizes never provided as much musical value.
Enter Gorilla Glue.
Gorilla Glue proved to be excellent for attaching the cones to the bases. A couple of drops on the edge of the open bases, then plop it down on top of an upside-down cone (like a hat on a bald head) and five minutes later you had resonator all welded together. The Gorilla Glue provided a nice lightweight but sturdy bond. Pushing some Blu Tack into the cap and then pushing a cone into the cap also worked, but I thought it dulled the music a little.
While I was working with the Ozinators I received the jkbtn cones. The jkbtn brass cones are more like tiny, little bowls than cones. I ordered three different jkbtn cone sizes, but ultimately only used the 14mm and the 12mm sizes. The bases I used for the jkbtn cones ran the gamit from 1/4" and 3/8" copper caps, to 1/4" compression fittings, to big, honkin' 1/8” & 1/4" brass female pipe caps.
I tried many different styles, sizes and placements of resonators, but quickly settled on four representatives for my first round of testing. The four were: the Synergistic Research HFTs, the Ozinator in a 1/8" brass base, the jkbtn 14mm cone pressed in a 3/8" copper cap, and a big jkbtn 14mm cone glued in the big 1/4" brass cap.
Using only my front channel speakers (Magnepans) with and without the subwoofers I tried six of each prototype. For this test I placed three prototypes on the wall, around each speaker. One just off the inside edge - about 30" up from the floor, one just off the outside edge - about 30" above the floor, and one just above the speaker.
I started listening for many details but during these tests but soon zero'd in on four very noticeable tendencies with large differences. First, how deep was the soundstage; second, the positioning of the vocalists and instruments; third, how much clarity of detail came through; and lastly, how much harshness did each resonator type produce.
My lowest ranking of the four went to the 14mm jkbtn cones in the 3/8" copper caps. On the downside, they did not contribute very much to soundstage depth nor did they add to mid-range and bass clarity. On the positive side they did not contribute much to the upper mid-range harshness and even added a little bit of hi-frequency zing. Overall, they just did not provide much of an impact.
The next two finishers were tied for second. Not because they were equal, they were very different, but because I couldn't figure out which one was necessarily better. The SR HFTs were the best of all in producing a warm and very deep soundstage. The actual stage itself just seemed alive and so much more physically deep than most of the others. The HFTs could easily have walked away as my champions except for one, major flaw. They produced more upper mid-range harshness/raspiness than any of the resonators. Now, every one of these produce some harshness, especially if you place large numbers of them into your system, but to my ears the HFTs were the most harsh of all. I tried multiple placements to no avail. I brought out my test disk and my SP meter just to make sure I wasn’t placing them in hot spots. I tried turning them away from the listening area but the harshness remained. In the end this turned out to be a deal-breaker for me
This is where I have to insert the YMMV language. At robust listening levels my upper mid-range is somewhat close to being raspy as it is. It doesn't take too much to push the music into the harsh range. If you listen at a moderate volume level or if your speakers have a softer mid-range than Magnepans, the HFTs could possibly be your winner.
(In referring to upper mid-range harshness, what I am hearing is most noticeably heard when vocalists reach the part of a song where they put a lot of oomph and volume into the part. To use two very popular songs to demonstrate: during the Police single, ”Every Breath You Take”, when Sting sings "Now my POOR HEART ACHES, with EVERY STEP you take" - and also on k. d. lang’s single, "Constant Craving", when she sings the chorus, "CON-STANT CRA-VING has AL-WAYS been". At these intense moments the harmonics produced above the notes sung, can bring a hard, harsh, or raspy sound to the vocalist's voice).
Tied for second place with the HFTs were the biggest Ozinator I built, the Alaska cone in a 1/4" brass cap. The biggest Ozinators produced the most pleasant sound of all the Ozinators I built with a good tight bass, a clear mid-range, and pleasant but subdued highs. These were the best Ozinators at not producing mid-range raspiness/harshness but unfortunately, the soundstage they produced almost sounded two dimensional. If the HFTs produced a soundstage that was forty feet deep then the Ozinators stage was only fifteen feet deep. (FYI - Smaller Ozinators produced better highs - very nice cymbals - but the harshness became more evident. Plus they had the same soundstage lack of depth).
This left the large, big bottom jkbtn resonators as the champ of the first testing. These excelled at almost everything except their high frequencies were not quite as prominent as with the smaller sized resonators. The sound stage was the equal of the HFTs while the lower level and mid-range became clearer and more focused than with any of the other resonators. The big bottom jkbtn resonators also moved the stereo image quite effectively. While the official tests all were done with forward facing resonators, I did try placing these on the inside edge of my speakers which caused the vocals and instruments to move closer to center and become better defined physical position-wise. Likewise, when I placed them on the outside edge of my speakers the listening area expanded outward adding to the ambiance that is built-in to modern recordings.
Flat out, the big bottom jkbtn resonators were the most holographic, clearest, impactful, and pleasant sounding of all the contestants - by a fairly noticeable margin. Truth be told, I oh, so, didn't want these to be the winners. With the biggest cones stuck in the biggest, honkin' bases they are not only large and heavy but also kinda ugly. Nevertheless, IMHO they outperformed all of the others.
Just to make sure I took the top contestants, plus a few others, upstairs to a different stereo and performed a second round of testing.
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The second round of testing.
For the second round of testing I first started with six transducers or resonators for each test. Three on each side, all mounted face forward on the wall, one about a half-foot off the outside edge of my speakers, one just above my speakers (about 42" off the floor), and one about six feet above the floor. I constructed a few smaller jkbtn resonators, just to make sure I wasn't missing something. After a couple of listening sessions I narrowed my list to a final six resonator types - which are pictured in my “system pictures” section here on Audiogon. For the final I reduced the number of resonators for each test down to four with only a resonator just above my speakers and a resonator just to the outside edge of my speakers. I was only listening for resonator characteristics not placement optimization.
For the final notes portion I used only one song. I had just received a copy of Steely Dan's "The Royal Scam", and decided the first track, "Kid Charlemagne", features a number of good evaluation parts in it. In the first verses the bass and one of the keyboards are having a nice playful dual. This was an excellent part to evaluate bass response and clarity. Some resonators were rather muddy sounding; some were able to keep the two instruments separate.
The first verse also offered an opportunity to get a good reading on the amount of stage depth each resonator type produced.
During the second verse the cymbals and percussion come into play giving a good opportunity to gauge percussion, drums, and overall kick-in-the-gut impactfullness provided. As the second verse ends and the song transits into the chorus you get a good chance to gauge how each resonator handles vocals. Steely Dan vocals are fairly nasal sounding and keeping the vocals sounding musical was a challenge for some of the resonators. The chorus magnifies these difficulties as the main vocals become more forceful and background singers enter the song with gusto. This is where harshness can really rear its ugly head.
The guitar solo and remaining verses are great spot to reaffirm your thoughts on the overall performance.
I played this song over & over, going back & forth between resonators, I also occasionally went back to the no resonator sound – just to refresh my memory as to where the starting line was.
So here are my impressions of the six finalists. Once again – your mileage may vary.
The Small Ozinators (rear left in photo)
Depth of soundstage................................ 1
Clarity of bass and piano......................... 4
Percussion and drums impact.................. 4
High frequencies (cymbals)..................... 4
Vocals/guitar solo quality and purity....... 4
Harshness/raspiness avoided.................... 2
Overall..................................................... 19
The Large Ozinators (front left in photo)
Depth of soundstage................................. 1
Clarity of bass and piano.......................... 4
Percussion and drums impact................... 5
High frequencies (cymbals)...................... 4
Vocals/guitar solo quality and purity........ 4
Harshness/raspiness avoided..................... 4
Overall........................................................22
The Small jkbtn cone - press fit or glued (rear center in photo)
Depth of soundstage.................................. 3
Clarity of bass and piano........................... 3
Percussion and drums impact.................... 3
High frequencies (cymbals)........................4
Vocals/guitar solo quality and purity….... 4
Harshness/raspiness avoided.......................3
Overall...................................................... 20
The large jkbtn cone in 3/8” copper bottom (Center front in photo)
Depth of soundstage............................... 4
Clarity of bass and piano......................... 4
Percussion and drums impact.................. 4
High frequencies (cymbals)..................... 3
Vocals/guitar solo quality and purity....... 4
Harshness/raspiness avoided.................... 3
Overall.......................................................22
The large jkbtn cone in 1/8” brass bottom (Right rear in photo)
Depth of soundstage................................. 4
Clarity of bass and piano.......................... 3
Percussion and drums impact................... 4
High frequencies (cymbals)...................... 4
Vocals/guitar solo quality and purity........ 3
Harshness/raspiness avoided..................... 3
Overall........................................................21
The large jkbtn cone in large ¼” brass bottom (Right front in photo)
Depth of soundstage................................. 5
Clarity of bass and piano.......................... 4
Percussion and drums impact................... 4
High frequencies (cymbals)...................... 3
Vocals/guitar solo quality and purity.........4
Harshness/raspiness avoided.................... 5
Overall.......................................................25
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So there you have it. My take on evaluating the resonators. Ultimately, I sold my HFTs and reduced my usage of resonators in my main system way down. I tried using eight Big Bottom jkbtn resonators with two other smaller resonators thinking that I might be able to bring a little extra hi-frequency zing to the Big Bottom jkbtn sound. For me there seems to be a thin grey line when it came to the harshness factor and I just could not find another resonator that that didn’t push me over the harshness edge. In the end I cut my usage down to only eight Big Bottom jkbtn resonators. Two are mounted on the back of my front channel speakers – facing the front wall, two are mounted on the inside edges of the front speakers, two on the outside edges of my front speakers, and lastly two mounted on the sides of my rear speakers, which means they are facing the rear wall of my listening room. (I’ll post some pics soon) This setup produces a somewhat deeper soundstage and helps keep the stage away from me. Vocalists and instruments are generally positioned more toward center stage. There is a little better bass clarity, smoother vocals, a little more kick to percussion, drums and transients, better all-round clarity, and a little more ambiance. I hope your final choice affords you as much. The experimentation has been worth the trouble. I’m glad I have my favorites in place. The following parts were used in the construction of the different resonators: For the smaller Ozinators Here are Ozzy’s own words. - “I used 1/8" copper caps with a large copper cones from a company called Hareline. Hareline makes items for fishing lures and can be bought from Amazon. The caps however, will need to be purchased from a plumbing house. Then just simply glue the cone inside the cap. The cone is a direct drop in. I used Elmer’s school glue to seal the cone inside the cap.” For my larger Ozzinators - I substituted the larger Hareline Alaska Brass Cones – I buy them at online fishing lure stores, wherever they are in stock. They come in packs of 15 for $4.50 plus shipping. These are 3/8" or 9.5mm cones. I glued these into 1/4” copper caps and later into 1/8” brass caps from Valley Hydraulic For the rest of the resonators I used these bell-shaped brass cones. All you need to do is to place the bell into a 3/8" copper cap by hammering it gently. Tight and secure! And it makes a very nice resonator cup. Or you can glue it in and have half the cone sticking out from the base. Here is the ad for the jkbtn brass caps – I mostly use the 14mm models. You get 30 for about $8.00 including shipping http://www.ebay.com/itm/302130537660?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=600948813663&ssPageNam. My 1/4" Big Bottom brass caps come from Valley Hydraulic. http://www.valleyhydraulic.comhttp://www.valleyhydraulic.com/store/pc/Brass-1-4-quot-Female-Pipe-Cap...SKU: 3129X4 A slightly smaller 1/8" Big Bottom brass cap also comes from Valley Hydraulic. http://www.valleyhydraulic.com/store/pc/Brass-1-8-quot-Female-Pipe-Cap-21p1266.htmSKU: 3129X2 Toolbox |
Damn toolbox, you are one productive human! This thread has become quite the treasure trove of info. Since you seem to rate the version of the resonators I’m using the lowest, I’m going to pick up some heavy brass caps today and make some using those. I’ll still go the press fit route and may try the glue ins later.
@ozzy I haven’t tried them on top of the speakers yet. I’ll do that. As for the bb or crystal, I’m assuming you glue them in?
Crystals. Ha. We’re getting all new agey! What’s next? Dream catchers? Ooh, that’s not a bad idea for diffusion... |
Dream catchers? I thought that’s what this is all about. The ability for us to go to our listening area and catch a dream of some musical performance. I was dreamin’ pretty good last night.
I’d be very interested in reading your opinion about the heavy brass caps coupled with the 14mm jkbtn brass cones. You WILL need some kind of glue to assemble them. The cones are too big to presss fit.
Throughout this whole episode, I’ve been trying to figure out if the bigger bases help produce better sound, or if it’s the big 14mm cones, sticking way out of the bases that add the most to the sound. While I’m kinda leaning toward the idea that the bigger bases have the bigger impact - I could make an argument for either point of view.
The one, big drawback to my favorite resonators is that they ARE heavy. It takes a pretty good wad of Blu Tack to hold them in place. Every time I head to the listening room for some music, I start out by making sure all eight resonators are still in place. Luckily I have carpeted floors. It’s not uncommon to find one on the floor.
Hope you’re having fun.
Toolbox
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My Brilliant Pebbles was the first comprehensive crystal-based (all crystal, actually) audio product to address all aspects of the audio system and room, and was introduced at the London HiFi Show way back in 2003 (WHOA!!) which was in fact some years after they were an actual product. I suspect I might possibly know a little more than the average bear about crystals. Fire at will.
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I agree with ozzy who says that "placement experimentation is the key." I am using 8 different kinds of DIY resonators in my system based on the HFT idea, with at least one more to come. I have also designed a unique resonator in 3 sizes, not based on the HFT design. I think it is becoming clear that the challenge is to find what works best for each one of us since each of us has a different system and a different room, along with different goals and budgets.
Whether this entails using measuring devices, guides, suggestions, diagrams or your own creativity, or a combination of some or all the above, is an individual choice and may depend on many factors. Since this can involve walls, floors, ceilings, furniture, components, speakers,
wires and cables,
tweaks and accessories the possibilities and permutations are nearly endless, depending on how far you want to take this down the road.
If you add magnets and crystals to the mix then you're in for the long haul. Obviously, time and patience are the two keys to success. It can take months or even years to develop all this. Since everyone's systems and rooms are different, and since our goals may also vary, it is clear that there is no formula that will apply to all situations. This is very much an individual endeavor. It is up to each of us to discover what works best in our own situation. Ozzy hit the nail on the head regarding placement experimentation. |
Toolbox149,
Some of my resonators are also very heavy and find their way to the floor from time to time. I always keep extra Blu Tack handy. |
As I opined several times early on this thread, experimentation with placement only gets you so far. Time consuming and ineffective. Now all the cows are coming home to roost.
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geoffkait,
"opined" ... Lol. In case you may not have noticed, I was quoting ozzy in my post so you'll have to deal with him -- if you dare. In case you may not have noticed, nowhere in my post did I say "placement only" ... but misquoting is one of your favorites ... as we have seen many times ... same old geoffkait ... cows coming home to roost ... I didn't know cows roosted ... guess you haven't visited a farm lately ... or maybe they do roost on your farm ... which would not surprise me ... Lol. |
"Time consuming and ineffective." Not sure if ozzy would agree. But I don’t think he will bother to comment. I don’t think he enjoys this as much as I do. Lol. In any case, how do you know what is effective in ozzy's system, or mine? Oh, I know ... you're a practicing telepathic room treatment specialist ... running a very busy operation that leaves you with half the day to hang around here beating the forum bush for new customers ... with full disclosure. Keep it coming Dynamica. You're doing great. As Woody Allen once said, 50% of success is showing up. We can always count on you to show up. Lol. |
Sabai, funny you should react so violently as I wasn't addressing you. And speaking of showing up that's actually something you haven't been doing of late. We missed you. One assumes you were back at the farm.
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geoffkait ... "React so violently ... " Lol. You break me up. You may not have been addressing me but I was indeed addressing you ... Lol. I guess you must have been addressing ozzy -- who I doubt will bother to chime in ... and who can blame him? Lol. |
You’re still confused. Better go back and read what I actually said instead of trying to put words in my mouth. Who's on first? 😬 |
So.. crystals. Does the atomic crystalline structure matter? What about the actual shape of the crystal? Yours are pebbles, so I'm assuming you've found they don't need to be shaped like crystals.. but we all know what happens when you assume. Ha!
What about size? And what is the mechanism they work through?
I have a feeling I'm not getting straight answers to any of these questions. :-P |
Todd, you sure make a lot of assumptions. What's up with the attitude? Instead of my having to answer your rather snarky questions why don’t you do this - take a deep breath then go read up on crystals on my web site. http://machinadynamica.com/machina17.htmHave a nice day |
geoffkait,
Were you addressing me this time? Lol. I must be very confused -- if you say so. There you go gain trying to save face. You already put your foot in your mouth so no need to put words in your mouth. Lol.
Same old geoffkait trying to beat the forum bush to make a living -- whatever it takes. Speaking of which, how are your tiny little $100 knock-off resonator bowls doing these days? Must be stiff competition from all those $1 knock-offs. Lol.
As for accusing toddverrone of being snarky ... there's the pot calling the kettle black once again. We've seen this a few times from you on the forum. Looks like your cows are coming home to roost once again. Lol.
Have a nice day. Lol.
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Hey Todd,
Were you able to use the link I provided to get to the Valley Hydraulic page to order the big 1/4" caps. I tried yesterday and it didn't seem to work. I'm wondering if it's just my iPad or if the link I copied just doesn't work for anybody. If you can't use it, let me know & I'll post some detailed directions. The Valley site isn't very intuitive.
Thanks,
Toolbox
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Sabai, Whoa! Dude! The doctor is in. Go ahead, let it all out. Remember to look within. And maybe look in a book while you’re at it. Wouldn’t kill you.
😛
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Theaudiotweak
I have to back you up on your past statement of 05-16-2017 8:53am
"If you have placed devices on flat surfaces or walls and you are pleased with the outcome you can take this whole thing to a higher level by removing adhesive damping materials and attaching your device right to the wall or other surface. You can do this with the aid of a threaded insert placed directly into the wall and your device also threaded screwed into the wall. You can now adjust the resonance point on the wall by ever so slightly adjusting the tension of your device to the wall or surface. 1/16 of a turn can be clearly discerned..or even much less depending on the surface."
I had a very similar expirience with the very first resonators I built. They were quite complicated to build and I didn’t go any further in developing them because they were too much work to put together. Basically, they had a very small nail holding a cone to a small wooden cap. The nail protruded through the bottom of the wooden cap, so I just pushed the nail into my drywall wherever I wanted to place a resonator. The nail held the cone and cap firmly against the wall, but I didn’t have control of the tightness like I would have had with your screw suggestion.
I did notice that when held tight against the wall with no adhesive, the effect was quite pronounced. In my case - too pronounced. Ultimately, I decided I didn’t want any resonators on any of my walls. I only want to get a small tweek out of these things, but someone looking a more dramatic addition to their sound should give them a try. If you already have some cones all you need is a few small screws. I tried sticking up cones with no bases as an experiment but I used Blu Tack to place them. Screwing cones directly onto a wall might be well worth the effort.
Unfortunately, I'm really happy with my setup of resonators and I've settled into listening to music rather than playing around with my system. I guess someone else will have to take up the torch on this one.
Good idea! Sorry it took me so long to reply. I was a little busy.
Thanks,
Toolbox
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@geoffkait my questions weren’t snarky. Those are actual questions I have. My statement that I won’t get straight answers is based on my past interactions with you and was meant to be playful, not critical.
Toolbox - yeah, that link didn’t work for me either. For my heavier resonators, I’ve been using a similar brass cap that is shorter. That way there depth of the resonators is similar and the only difference is the base. I posted a pic of the heavier resonator on my system page.
@ozzy I tried a couple on top of the speakers and gave it a quick, non critical listen last night. Initial impressions are favorable! |
05-18-2017 9:26am
@geoffkait my questions weren’t snarky. Those are actual questions I have. My statement that I won’t get straight answers is based on my past interactions with you and was meant to be playful, not critical.
Actual questions? Won’t get straight answers? Past interactions? Huh? Are you high? I just answered all your actual questions in the link I provided and you come back with a load of horse manure.
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geoffkait,
As your past history on the forum shows, you try to save face by gliding past the content of my post with a glib response. Same old.
I note that toddverrone has accurately observed that "My statement that I won’t get straight answers is based on my past interactions with you ...".
To which you respond with a typical geoffkait insult about "a load of horse manure" instead of offering a straight answer. We can add this to to your list of favorite forum insults that include knuckleheads, nerds, grasshoppers and little old ladies, among others.
Business must be slow this week. But I’m sure those pebble orders will come rolling in once folks get to read your latest gems on the forum. Keep it up geoffkait. You’re doing great.
Have a nice day, dude. Lol. |
Sabai, again with the stupidity. I answered his questions. What's all the rumpus? |
