Pioneer Direct Drives - Now and then?

helomech, Was interested in your comment about "forced-weightiness and digital-like glare typical of DD tables". Would you care to back that up? Exactly what turntables have exhibited those qualities in your system? And can you define "forced-weightiness"? Thanks.

Herb Reichert does a better job describing it in his review of the PLX. In fact, "forced-weightiness" might be his term. I read it somewhere as I recall and felt it very apt to what I've heard from the PLX and various DD tables I've owned. Some of those would include vintage Pioneer, Kenwood, Technics and MCS tables. 

"Would I care to back that up?" Well, I'm not the only one who has noticed this trait but most things in this hobby are subjective. A bit of Google searching will turn up posts from others who've noticed the same.

helomech, Was interested in your comment about "forced-weightiness and digital-like glare typical of DD tables".  Would you care to back that up? Exactly what turntables have exhibited those qualities in your system?  And can you define "forced-weightiness"?  Thanks.

So weird!  Earlier this year, I bought a Lyngdorf integrated with a built in MM phono preamp and said to myself--Hey remember that old Pioneer PL 51 table you bought in 1973 that you've had in storage since 1982?   Maybe it's time.  The drive still works, but the cantilever was broken on the Shure 97HE I was using.  I can't find a replacement stylus, and I've sort of choked on the cost of buying a decent replacement.  I've still got my modest vinyl collection, but--- do I want to start putting cash into this?  There are two ways this could go.   I could fall in love with vinyl again, which is going to be crossing the event horizon into the black hole for me and my cash.  Or, I could just keep the thing around as an exercise in nostalgia.   But along comes Eric, and I think, maybe Eric will run this experiment for me.  @erik_squires , do keep us posted on how you decide to go.  I may be following in your footsteps.

I’m blown away at your post Eric.  You have been a member since 2005, 9000 posts, and you sound like this will be your first turntable. You want to spend $1000 but you claim you will buy as little as 5 albums.  You also want to set it and forget it.  Unlikely.   Why bother?
Having said that my first table was a Pioneer PL -530.  Semi-automatic.  It worked wonderfully for many years including being packed for several international moves. One of these might scratch your itch on the cheap.

I owned the PLX-1000 for a spell. Contrary to fanboy myth, it does sound and perform just as well if not better than the fabled 1200 MKII. Also feels like a higher quality machine in my opinion. 

I think to get a DD that's significantly better you'd have to spring for the 1200GR. 

Note that cartridge overhang for the PLX is different than the 1200s so you can't use the Technics plastic headshell jig. No loss really as that thing only achieves a ballpark alignment anyhow.

The KAB arm damper fits the PLX.

I also preferred the PLX to a VPI Classic 1, though that was not with a particularly good cartridge admittedly. 

It's a good performer in the objective sense, however, it does play with the forced-weightiness and digital-like glare typical of DD tables. Though, to get better objective performance out of a belt-drive  you'd be looking at $3K^. 

Thanks everyone for the ideas!!

FWIW, I had a Pioneer PL-600 (I understand there were two Pioneer turntables with this model designation...mine was the higher end one from ‘79 or ‘80 in grey finish). With, first, an ADC ZLM cart and later a Shure V-15 type (4 or 5), it was a good sounding rig.....sort of a “loaded out Chevy Impala” of a turntable.  The Shure cartridge was a step up.  It started having pronounced platter speed stability issues suddenly in about 2005-ish after a quarter-century’s worth of light/moderate use.  I replaced it with a Music Hall MMF 5/Goldring 1012 cart which has been an infinitely better match for my sonic sensibilities 

Chosing between these 3 turntables I think *1st one is the best:

Technics mk7 $999 *
Denon VL12 PRIME $899
PLX-1000 $649

But you can’t buy a turntable you’re looking for, and a proper cartridge, within $1k total.

A good cartridge alone is about $400

I'd like to spend $1000 or less, given I may buy like 5 records. :)

Cost for cartridge + player. 

Main requirement for me is that it not damage the vinyl while playing, and have rock solid settings.  Want to set it up exactly once.

What’s your budget, Erik?
PL50L is cheaper

With inexpensive Technics SP-20 you could build your own turntable buying tonearm separately, with custom plinth etc.

Here is what i put together for a friend locally.

@chakster  I understand that the opener is looking for entry level turntables and not turntables top level. 

@best-groove maybe, but anyway it's nice to see the whole picture
Pioneer was great in the past, i'm still using their top MM cartridge. 
Japanese archive is here

I've also looked at the Luxman's, but it seems the good used models are on the high side.

I’ve been looking at the PL-530, specifically which seems pretty and affordable.

On the new side was thinking about the PLX-1000

Has anyone actually spent time listening?

@chakster  I understand that the opener is looking for entry level turntables and not turntables top level.

Vintage Pioneer is much better turntable and much more expensive. If you want the best from Pioneer then look for Pioneer Exclussive P3a series, but prepare tons of cash. If you want a decent Pioneer Hi-Fi look for PL70II (used).

New Pioneer is a company primarily oriented on professional market. Pioneer is the manufacturer of audio equipment for clubs (professional multimedia players like CDJ, mixers, vinyl turntables). This is the reason why their turntable is not a re-issue of Pioneer own turntables from the past, but just a "clone" of Technics for lower price, it’s not bad but it was valid only before Technics returned to the business with their iconic turntables adored by professionals and audiophiles, now on the low side you can buy brand new Technics mk7 for about $900 (or any higher Technics models if you wish to, including top of the line SL1200G or SP10R).

The difference between Pioneer strategy and Technics strategy is obvious. Technics made audiophile gear like SP-10R (the best direct drive available today new). Pioneer did not make anything equal to their old Pioneer Exclussive p3 or even p10 yet.