Perfect Path Technologies: Omega E mat

@grannyring- If that is addressed to me, I understand exactly what you are saying about patents. Exactly. By your own words-"Sometimes a patent is not the best approach. Sometimes. Not always or even often." So, in your opinion, no patent is the best approach for this invention based on the premise a patent would lay bare the composition and technology of the mat, making it easier for others to change slightly and emulate, else they would have no clue as to how to do it. That is your opinion. I am of the opinion that since it is not a piece of technology that I surmise needs specialized machinery or expensive custom tooling to produce, (since, you know, it’s a mat) a patent would be better protection than no patent at all. Especially since as I stated, the material can easily be analyzed and identified. Of course, we’re both just speculating and voicing our opinions. So I ask, what makes your speculations and opinions more valid than my or djones51’s ’laughable’ ones?

Goodness you are relentless in your speculative view. Just consider other possible realities and approaches as they may have some wisdom and that is how we learn. Agreed?

djones51 sez ...

• "I already know it’s properties. It makes hifi systems sound out of this world at $600 a pop."
  

That’s exactly correct.

I’ve heard Steve Fleschler’s system after applying Total Contact. I have yet to hear his system with the Omega E Mats. He has heard my system with both the TC applications and the E Mats, and that’s what prompted him to advance his system by buying and installing the mats.

As for my own system, it is now way beyond where I ever thought a home system could go. I’m discovering new applications for the mats too. Just placing one under my power conditioner the other day made a significant improvement ... and that’s after having two in the circuit breaker box and one under each component in the system.

One thing we should all remember is that this is a hobby and its intended for fun and musical enjoyment.

And talking about musical enjoyment, here’s something I threw on the CD spinner this morning. If you like purity in female voice and ballad standards, this is one not to miss:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAROL-KIDD-GOLD-1995-MADE-IN-THE-UK-24K-GOLD-CD/252641905971?hash=item3ad2a...

Yes, its a collector item now. Expensive too. I bought mine when it was new for $18.00. Maybe if you keep looking, or are really fortunate to run across it at a garage sale .... :>)

Frank

Hi grannyring- just to clarify, I did not say it could easily be copied. I said its material composition could easily be analyzed and identified. Then copied. That is just a plain fact. I see nothing in that statement that could elicit humor. I don’t understand how you, Fleschler and "many others" find it funny. Also, I never stated I knew what the mat is composed of. So, actually no, it’s not a reasonable thought. A reasonable thought would be that it is not composed of any new, esoteric material that cannot be identified and/or duplicated.

I'm with grannyring.  djones51 and carpathian only speculate on the negative, haven't used the E-Mat and are here to teach Mr. Mrock what's best for him economically?   That is laughable.

My point is they would not have any idea what we were doing! Not a clue. No place to even begin to understand as they would have no knowledge, no insight, no intel, no place to start. Sometimes a patent is not the best approach. Sometimes. Not always or even often. Getting a patent is certainly conventional wisdom for many.  You know just doing it because that’s what you’re supposed to do 🙂

Not if the mat is more difficult than you think to copy. Again, you have no idea how possible or near impossible it is. Simple stuff. You assume it is easy to buy, copy, and produce. You may be completely wrong. Yes, protection with a patent makes sense if your particular speculation is right. Perhaps you are wrong. Perhaps? Can you even say it?

Well some of the statements that crack up Fleschler crack me and many others up. We have no idea what is in the mat, yet some speculate that it cannot be anything really new Or easily copied. Really? We have no idea. You have no real idea. This makes me laugh. Reasonable thought ..... right?

Also, credible reasons for not revealing every nuance of an innovation in a patent were given, but absolutely no credence was given to them. Again, since we have no idea how difficult and disruptive this technology is, the reasons given for not filing are certainly within the realm of reasonableness. Right? The inability to consider this makes me smile....sort of.

Since we don’t know the answers to these mat questions a reasonable discussion would be open to reasoned speculations. I am open to the speculative notion that the mat may be very easy to copy and nothing particularly difficult to produce. I am willing to say it may be so. However, it may be the complete opposite needing a careful plan to protect its design. Conventional wisdom regarding the safety and “wisdom” of patents can be debated in some cases.

I clearly remember and competitor thanking me at a convention for the patent on a cooking technology that was a complete game changer and disrupting the marketplace. He explained the process from beginning to end with great detail as he was an engineer and quite smart. Yes, he was able to read the patent. No doubt they are now working on this and will tweak it to make it their own. I wish we kept it out of the patent books as the competition would not have a clue till this very day.

Quick interrupt! Hey, guys, there is a long list of mysterious, implausible, unfashionable, preposterous audiophile tweaks that are nigh impossible to figure out. The chances are very high that NONE of them were patented. A technology that is just out of reach of the average person is the perfect product inasmuch as it cannot be knocked off. You can lock five PhDs in theoretical physics in a room for a week with any of these audiophile tweaks and they would be unable to come to grips. This is NOT a complete list by any means.

1. The Intelligent Chip
2. Silver Rainbow Foil
3. Morphic Message Labels
4. The Red x Pen
5. The Clever Little Clock
6. Brilliant Pebbles (crystals)
7. Purple pen around CD outer edge
8. Black cable ties around exterior drain pipes.
9. Schumann Frequency Generator
10. White Cable jackets

Actually Fleschler, it’s you who cracks me up. You think Tim has access to or has invented some exotic, previously unknown material that a company that is expert in materials analysis can’t identify? That they are constructed in such a way that the materials can’t be identified? Now THAT is funny. Please enlighten djones51 and me as to why our statements are so humorous to you. What points did we make that you find laughable? Do you find anything in our statements to be a lie? Do you think that by inventing this mat, not patenting it and selling it to any and everyone on the internet is wiser than not having patent protection? Please explain your position. And no, I would never buy this mat to have it analyzed for any ill gotten gain. Even though I have the means, I also have the integrity to never do such a thing. Tim invented it, it is his to sell. So, let’s have it Fleschler, what cracks you up about our statements?

Mr. Mrock, I wouldn't worry about having your invention discovered anytime soon.  These posters have no intention of buying an E-Mat and discovering it's secrets (if possible).  

"Thowing stones at glass houses"  djones51, since you're so smart, why don't you buy an E-Mat and discovers its' properties. Then you can profit from Mr. Mrock's work.  You could be very rich propagating his invention to the whole world.

Oregonpapa 8-19-2018
I believe that earlier on in the TC thread, there was some research done on patents. I think it was Al who did the research and he came up with two patents that had been filed by Tim.

That is correct, Frank. However those patents were from some years ago and had no relation to the mat. Or to TC for that matter, as far as I could tell from looking at the patents. From the TC thread:

Almarg 12-30-2017
The only patents I could find in a search of both granted patents and patent applications at uspto.gov, using "Mrock" as the search term, were these two.

However those patents were granted in 2011 and 2013; they do not mention graphene; and they appear to correspond to the older product Frank referred to in the OP that was co-invented with Brian Kyle.

A search I just did at uspto.gov yielded the same results that I stated above.

Best regards,
-- Al

the carpathian says, " Composed of different materials that can easily be analyzed and duplicated."  How do you know it is a simple mat?  Go ahead and be the one who discovers the secret(s) of the Omega E-Mat.  Buy one and have it analyzed.  Good luck with that.  How do you know that once the product is sealed within the mat, it isn't transformed so as to be undiscoverable?   Maybe it is also cryogenically frozen or zapped by 2 million volts to achieve it's activity?  You and djones51 crack me up.  You two know what's best for Mr. Mrock than he does.  Go buy some E-Mats and enjoy the music.

Butt out. 🍑 Never get between two combatants. - Old audiophile axiom

I believe that earlier on in the TC thread, there was some research done on patents. I think it was Al who did the research and he came up with two patents that had been filed by Tim.

Frank

Now, now ...

In the name of that infamous sage Rodney King ... "Can't we all just get along?"  :>)

Frank

Obviously you’re either slow or high. Either way I don’t really care. And I don’t answer hypothetical questions. Never smarten up a chump.

'...cop an attitude'? 'Snapped'? Geoff, you're nothing if not mildly amusing...Like I said, hypothetical question. If you don't want to voice your opinion on it, just say you don't have an opinion.

I did answer. Can’t you read? Don’t cop an attitude with me. Besides I was still composing my post when you snapped at me. Relax, it’s only a hobby.

@geoffkait - Just a hypothetical question, Geoff. If you don't want to answer, no need for the song and dance. Just say so.

thecarpathian
@geoffkait- That’s why I stated ’given their claims’. Go on the premise all product claims are valid regardless of knowing its material makeup. Would you agree such products go beyond a weird audiophile tweak and can have myriad applications beyond stereo equipment.

Given whose claims? Who is they? Besides people claim all kinds of things. Claims don’t mean nothin. Nobody has to prove claims. Nobody has to make claims. Get real. We went through the same thing twenty five years ago with the Shakti On Lines and there have been similar claims regarding Peter Belt products, crystals, the Intelligent Chip, the Teleportation Tweak, audiophile products that affect video and so on. 

@tommylion- Without a patent, there is no legal protection in place. As far as keeping it a secret, how is he keeping it a secret? He’s selling them online. Anybody can purchase one, take it to a materials analysis service, find out exactly what it’s made of, and duplicate it with no legal consequences. And it’s not likely to need any exotic tooling equipment to manufacture like, say, a gear specific to some type of engine or a nuclear component. It’s a mat. A small mat. Composed of different materials that can easily be analyzed and duplicated. And I get what you guys are saying about patents and not divulging how anything is made. But do you agree that that applies much more to a complicated invention and not a simple mat.

He is not listening or understanding because he simply does not want to. I say we move on as sometimes folks have a notion and no amount of truth and reason will get through. This is at play here and now.

“My only point is why in the world would someone sell something that does what is being claimed here without any legal protection at all?”

First, we don't know what legal protection may be in place. Secondly, others have already explained that, in some cases, keeping something secret may be a better option than seeking legal protection, through a patent or other means.

“ My guess and it's only a guess is there is nothing about these mats that can be patented. It's made from common everyday stuff.”

That is, as you said, only a guess.

You think Rambus is a good example, how about Virnetix (VHC).  They won four court cases against Apple for infringement.  The first two cases were retried as bifurcated patents.  Apple hasn't paid yet.  They owe $1 billion including mostly punitive damages and interest.  This infringement has been occurring over almost a decade on patented military software purchased by VHC.  Apple's continuous fight goes to attempting to bankrupt VHC.  Also, Apple could just buy VHC for under $200 million and forgo the damages but they just play hard ball and have the money to do so.

Another is Mylan's Epipen.  Mylan tweaked the epipen when it's patent was running out, just slightly and received a new patent.  Since then, Adamis and Teva received approval for their generic epipen's which also tweaked the patented epipen.  Production on the former hasn't begun and the latter is in the process while there exists a significant underproduction of the patented pen by Mylan.   

These are just two examples of patents and lawsuits. 

It is possible that the E-Mat has some formulation of TC embedded in it.  No one knows what TC is either.  As previously stated, tweaks are not viewed as investments by big companies or government agencies until they are a success or are their elements are known.  We should be glad that the E-Mat wasn't sold to Sony as it could just be buried after purchase and we wouldn't get to use it.  

djones51,

You have no idea what Tim has done, is doing, or will do in the future. He is a smart guy, and I would be extremely surprised if he was foolish enough to reveal any of that on a public forum. You're basically throwing around a bunch of wild, uninformed, speculation. What is your point/purpose in doing so?

@geoffkait- That's why I stated 'given their claims'. Go on the premise all product claims are valid regardless of knowing its material makeup. Would you agree such products go beyond a weird audiophile tweak and can have myriad applications beyond stereo equipment.

Ok, I give up and cry uncle! Oh my...

Because of what was just mentioned above. It is a reasonable approach.  

thecarpathian
@geoffkait- Would you agree that these products, given their claims, go beyond a "weird audiophile tweak" and can have myriad applications beyond stereo equipment?

>>>>>How could I agree? I don’t know what the heck the thing is. Do you?

I had to deal with that question in my profession. The answer is it depends. I think you missed my point earlier. Competition will learn from your patent and this is key....then CHANGE and thing or two just enough to break away from the patent. You just managed to help others learn from your hard work and take it to the next level with some alterations. Surprising how slight these alterations can be to escape patent issues.

So if what you have is extremely difficult to figure out and tool for, then keeping quiet with no patent may indeed be the wise decision as it is highly unlikely competition will be able to respond in a timely manner.

@grannyring- What would you believe carries more risk, filing a patent for your invention and anyone copying it can be subject to patent infringement laws, or putting your invention on the market unpatented where anyone can copy it and you would be powerless to take any legal action against them?

Hi grannyring. Well, let's ask...!@perfectpathtech- there is debate on whether you have taken your invention's tech elsewhere besides Audiogon. Will you clear up whether you have or have not?

The claims made about patents and their risks are real. Also, why do some of you assume the owner has not taken this tech elsewhere? I am confident he has already and this audio thing just happens to be one avenue the owner is using.  He is an Audiophile so why not apply here also? 

@geoffkait- Would you agree that these products, given their claims, go beyond a "weird audiophile tweak" and can have myriad applications beyond stereo equipment?