Does anyone know the intricate details of how these most current PPS eMats differ, aside by appearance, from the previous two generations of PPT eMat & eMat+?.any insight will be greatly appreciated...
Humility can be a false "virtue", the anthropological nietzschean analysis go indeed very deep in the christian Occidental soul... Humility can be a fake virtue... Indeed...
But humility cannot be erased once and for all of the hall of virtues by the wise analysis of Nietzsche...
Humility is also something coming from more deep stata than something attribute to the sole Ego...
Humility can be observed when a wise humble buddhist monk wait to give his rice that the hand was opened up before spooning the rice, he must humbly and patiently wait that the people ask first for it and open effectively their hands...
A long time ago a christian doctor in journey to Japan in a buddhist monastery in 1956, was speaking with enthusiasm about the greatness of christian Charity to the buddhist monk that effectively agreed to his affirmation of virtue greatness for charity...
But the wise monk said that the humility and patience to wait for a hand to volontarily open by itself before spooning the rice in was also a great virtue.... Because spooning the rice without this patient and humble waiting for it was useless at the end....We must learn to wait for the right moment and for the permission of those we want to help....
Nietzsche was necessary in Christian country, not so in Asian one....
Humility is great virtue after all....
With this virtue the mind can be more attentive to the world phenomenon....Humility is one of the virtue of truly great scientist after Goethe who said that we must patiently wait to see nature open itself to us....
Someone can also wait for his knowledge to be received that someone ask for it....
Hmm I’ll go out on a limb and assert the most acclaimed philosophers probably are served well by a fair dose of humility. They run the risk of preaching to a vacuum if their lack of humility means nobody wants to listen to them.
Of course they may just think they are smarter than everyone else and not care. In which case their brilliance might merely go to the grave with them.
Maybe once they write it all down and someone chooses to read it, humility is a moot point.
Different strokes.....
Here is an article that accurately reflects my view on humility better than I could ever explain it.
Perhaps I’ve been brainwashed? But this is exactly how I tend to think about it.
I come from a very poor upbringing myself @mapman , though myself and my siblings have all done very well for ourselves. We do have our parents good genetics, and good worth ethic to thank and a loving upbringing. We were never pushed, but we were never told there were limits either. I would not call myself or my siblings overall very humble and my brothers and I definitely not, but we certainly don't look down on those of lesser success and we don't equate wealth with being a better person (or worse). It has made us all more fiscally right wing, but we are all socially pretty left wing, but politically right in the center.
The origins of humility as a "virtue" are not necessarily good though. It can be traced by to religious piety and one could even say subservience (to a diety). Nietzsche even characterized it as a defence mechanism for the weak to survive the strong (paraphrasing). By calling it a virtue, we are "forced" to assume it is a good thing without reflection on whether it is or not.
Being exceptionally aware of your limitations and failings does not require one to be humble.
Yes I know but humility is a virtue that can serve everyone though many may not choose to leverage it, especially those very driven and successful.
I come from Amish country and very humble beginnings so I may have a somewhat distorted perspective when it comes to these things. My kids and wife tease me about it all the time.
I used to work with a guy who would take forever to make his point which was a terrible waste of time in a busy day. Worse, he would call from his office even though he worked 45 feet away. He would watch for people to enter their office, and then call them. He did that to me once, and I did not answer the phone. I watched the phone "flash" which it did when someone was leaving a message. 2 minutes later it was still flashing, they were still talking. I opened my voicemail and listened to 30 seconds of rambling. I never made it to the end, I just deleted the message. About 2-3 hours later he graced me with his presence and asked if I got his voicemail. I told him after 30 seconds, since he had not made his point, and it was not even clear why he was calling, I deleted his message.
I see very limited value in this test from an organizational success standpoint.
Ultimate question are there to be applied in ourself for ourself....i think jetter was proposing a self reflective moment to you and to me and to all...You missed the point....
I am pretty sure jetter was not thinking about an organizational standpoint and waiting for his test to be scored by a team of manager....😁
I would rather work with a total jerk who gets things done and is reliable versus someone who is fun and amiable and totally useless.
Like often here you use a "sophism" , your alternative is a fake one Impliying a vicious circle... 1-All Jerks will make anything to do the work done...By all means... 2- there is a job to be done... 3- we need a jerk to be sure the job will be done...
The problem here is that anyone fun and amiable other than a jerk can also do the job...The conclusion you arrived at is already contained in your premises... It is called a vicious circle.... But you have decided that the jerk beat all amiable and fun already... Your back tought is simple.... The job must be done at any cost.....Even at a human cost.... Collateral damage it is called...Oregonpapa here was this collateral damage of your "expertise"....
You don’t treat someone with respect you know nothing about because you have nothing to respect
This one explain all...Basic human consideration ask for the respect of any human being, even hydrocephalus one over any "job" asking to be done...Ask your father if he waited your maturity for giving you respect? Or does he wait til "job" done? Respect is being REAL when it is not a money of exhange, it is a basic trust between human ... Basic respect must be spontaneous and all time for all people...I must respect you without waiting for anything.... I tried, but it was difficult i am not perfect like you are not either....I tend to disrespect some attitude... It is my defect and own fault.... I apologize for that...
What are we trying to achieve here? The best sound. Period. What that is will be different for everyone, but the goal is the same. The best sound. Period again for emphasis. The "jerk" who is right, is going to get you to the goal of the best sound if you listen. The amiable wrong person is not.
Everyone wants to blame the jerk who is right, because it is easier than blaming themselves for taking the advice of the amiable person who was wrong. The amiable person doesn’t reveal our own inadequacies, the jerk does.
There is no "job" to be done here.... It is an audiophile thread.... People partake experiences and know perfectly well that the ABSOLUTE GOOD sound dont exist in any normal room and any normal gear.... Only optimal S.Q. in some level that they all learn with their own differences and histories in audio...
Then the fallacy of your reasoning excusing yourself to be rude because of a "job" that must be done is complete bullshit...
Sorry to say so.....
Your last words are something.... You are right and totally wrong at the same times...
You are right the difficult person confront us.... It is a lesson to learn about ourself and you are right...
But you are totally wrong thinking this is your personal mission to enlighten all people here at all cost only by ourself...
But your post imply that...
Go back to the jetter test now you are ready to pass it....You know that it is not a manager test now.... But a mirror where each of us MUST glance....
I apologize to you because i have been rude myself with you,.... But i am not perfect and i have difficulties when i see victims imaginary one and real one...
isochronism2,511 posts01-28-2021 9:34pmTRUE intelligence realize's it's own lack of knowledge, hence will display humility.
It has not been my experience that truly brilliant people are overly humble and certainly not in their area of expertise and not when met with ignorance.
You haven't dealt with a lot of really smart driven people have you? :-) They tend to display their "humility" by plowing through whatever is in their way to achieve success.
True sometimes but not always but has more to do with being "driven" than smart.
"Simple test, would you like to work with someone like you? If you think you are a jerk, you are one."
I see very limited value in this test from an organizational success standpoint. It sounds all very good, but it does not reflect the reality of a high performance company (or people for that matter).
I would rather work with a total jerk who gets things done and is reliable versus someone who is fun and amiable and totally useless. Someone who is less performance oriented may prefer that amiable useless person over the high performance jerk. Different roles require different skill sets.
You don't treat someone with respect you know nothing about because you have nothing to respect. You should treat them with basic decency, but respect is something that is earned.
Most high performance people I know and have met are fairly aggressive at least in those what I would call formative or active years of their career, and certainly as it surrounds their work/career. It is usually later in life / far outside work they shed that side of them, till pushed. The ones that were washed out were the ones that were not nearly as bright or special as they thought they were and hence never lived up to their own billing. Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Andy Grove, Mark Zuckerberg .... not known for being the easiest people to work for.
What are we trying to achieve here? The best sound. Period. What that is will be different for everyone, but the goal is the same. The best sound. Period again for emphasis. The "jerk" who is right, is going to get you to the goal of the best sound if you listen. The amiable wrong person is not.
Everyone wants to blame the jerk who is right, because it is easier than blaming themselves for taking the advice of the amiable person who was wrong. The amiable person doesn't reveal our own inadequacies, the jerk does.
Actually the wealthy people I know aren't totally humble, but they also aren't aggressive or have a rude manner. Very nice people in fact. Their success was brought on by talent, people want what skills they have to offer and to help them helps themselves. If you push chances are you will bump into someone that will show you what pushing is really all about, give you an education.
Along the path I have seen those that thought they were the "brightest" and "special", who simply didn't know how to treat people with the normal dose of respect, and it was not long before they were washed out, to a person. Simple test, would you like to work with someone like you? If you think you are a jerk, you are one.
isochronism2,511 posts01-28-2021 9:34pmTRUE intelligence realize's it's own lack of knowledge, hence will display humility.
You haven't dealt with a lot of really smart driven people have you? :-) They tend to display their "humility" by plowing through whatever is in their way to achieve success.
Good to see this thread is back to name calling and turn-based insults. Super productive. The only way to win the argument is to ignore and move on folks. It's the internet, just let the other person have their perceived victory... or fight forever, those are your two options. If only people could put this much effort into actually helping one another...
That’s the name of the game we all play with various degrees of success. Also just have to point out that anyone can say anything anytime for any reason. Especially on the Internet in chats where there is often no way to immediately confirm what people say or not. So the facts can be few and far between. It’s a big problem.
Challenging assertions made with limited facts is not attacking people.
i will correct your distorted translation of event....
Challenging people experience and testimonies which are "limited facts", yes, but they are anyway facts, with no experience with the product whatsoever, even no knowledge at all about the content of this product, is not challenging but criticizing people with no facts at all... Not even limited one.... Then bashing someone room, speakers, and integrity after that to go on with the ridiculizing of the same product deconsider any form of seriousness...
Real Knowledge is always based on discerning facts.
Challenging assertions made with limited facts is not attacking people. It’s the proper way to discern facts and acquire knowledge. Though often it devolves into that. Real Knowledge is always based on discerning facts.
You are not passionate you are dogmatic and lazy and too interested in hearing yourself talk to listen to what anyone else says. That’s why you repeat the same rambling monologue over and over. I have never "attacked" analog lovers only the dogmatic idea it is "superior" not just preferable to them personally. If you are stuck in the mindset it is technically superior that is out of ignorance willful or otherwise. That hires digital can copy analog perfectly should make this obvious.
I will make the hypothesis that you are right and that i was wrong about that and about analog lover... And i will suppose that like you said you never accuse them to be ignorant...Anyway you even cannot repeat my argument about timbre perception in relation to mic recording and dont even understand them or dont want to ....
But think now about the content of your post just here...
It lack some other information...no?
Answering my post you truncate it of some information....
Remember, you bashed indisciminately also all audiophiles and particularly those who add "tweaks" to their system ?
Then you certainly attack tweakers audiophile in mass in the other thread with mijostyn laughing about their ignorance and "snake oil" products and here you attacked oregonpapa....Remember?
Even if you may or may be not right about me, and about turntable " ignorant", or not so, analog lover you cannot erase completely all reality written here....
I am not perfect, but you are certainly not more perfect than me....
Take the " harsh" medecine you wanted to offer to others and quit the arguing... I will mute myself also....
^^^ Oh, and I forgot to mention ... those reflective blinds received the copper foil treatment too. I used small pieces so unless pointed out, one would never know they are there.
I remember you from my first coming here.... You were always kind and a true gentleman....
My creation almost " nutty" sometimes were the fruit of my lack of money to afford my dream.... Lukily i succeed to a point.... I am no more frustrated , we are all happy when the natural "Timbre" and "imaging" are there coming from non existent speakers...
My deepest respect.... And thanks for the invitation....
Thank you for the kind words. They are very much appreciated.
I took a peek at your system page with all of your experiments. We're thinking along the same lines. For example, "audio2designs" took issue with the reflective glass on the pictures hanging on my walls. Well, I discovered copper foil as you did for your "golden plates." A little piece of copper foil with adhesive on one side, in each corner of each picture, made an improvement in getting the reflections under control. Also, I discovered long ago the value of placing heavy material on top of the speakers. It is like adding mass to the speakers. I used to use cinder blocks but now use a heavy granite platform on each speaker plus heavy lead fishing weights. Like you, I have spent an inordinate amount of time and effort to reduce micro-vibrations throughout the system. Unlike you, and much to your credit, I spent a lot of money to attain my low micro-vibrations. You've done it on a budget. Kudos to you for that.
I am passionate and i cannot stand those who attacked group of people bashing them with their simplification...
You did it for analog lovers...
You did it for Tweaks audiophile you despised...
But it was impossible for me to read your arrogant rejection of the room, speakers, products and even the personality of such a gentleman like oregonpapa...Like you said truth ask for being harsh then taste your own medecine...😁
Accusing me of anything is bad faith i only answered, not so much to your falsehood but to your collective accusations of ignorance against those 2 groups of people and against oregonpapa in particular...
I can admit myself being wrong,i proved it in the past; you are not able of that and you have proved it beyond doubts...
Instead of thinking about that you come back here attaking who? oregonpapa.....It is one of the first person who speak to me here almost 2 years ago, and it is a gentle soul loving music....
«The wise look itself in a mirror »-Anonymus Smith
«Standing before truth ask for a complete bareness rendition of our intelligence and a stripping of our knowledge»- Anonymus Smith
Nope, not confusing intelligence with arrogance, they can go together or they can be separate. Pulling the intelligence card is usually arrogant :-)
4,000 books, but it appears not one was The Evaluation of Self. That one can call another lacking empathy, but does not see their own lack of empathy in their need to talk above everyone else with the same material, in every single thread they post in, whether relevant or not. This puts your selfish needs for attention above other people's needs that is not empathy.
Not everyone is deserving of empathy either. While you may see but one aspect of a person here, in this thread, I have seen the insults and abuse they have thrown at others elsewhere on the web, and don't feel any need to waste positive emotions on them. There are people far more deserving in my life.
There are exceptions such as personality disorders particularly of the antisocial type of which there are several examples in this forum. They confuse intelligence with arrogance. You are a perfect example of this confusion. Yes, it was harsh. It was meant to be.
Just to rectify your diagnostic, antisocial personality are unable to empathize... They prefer their"logic"...Their "logic" is the only one...
Using so called scientific fact, like a sound theorem in signals theory, to bash a group of people is not science it is symptom of absence of empathy and judgement and ignorance about all the complex chain of the recording events and the phenomena of timbre...Accusing a musician with 45 years of working in studio of lying in place of an argument is nor science nor logic....
Making the same harsh comments about someone who pretend to nothing except to be amazed by the products effects on his system in a thread about them, bashing systematically, his room, his speakers, his products and pretending that he was an pretentious ignorant.... This is a blatent lack of empathy, not only lack of the knowledge about the product and this time with no excuse, not even a theorem, it is then a probable evidence of antisocial characteristic, if not, a stupidity without redemption or in the least case an eyesight with straight blinders ....
For your own intelligence mark and remark, you make smile all people here... Are you a children in a school to boast about your quality?
You are not antisocial yourself i dont think so, just the average dude conditioned by his straight education to admire anyone who pretend to "objective science’ without being able to differentiate the 2, science has nothing to do with "scientism"....
I am average myself, but i read 4,000 books about science, and philosophy, linguistic, mathematics etc and i can make the difference between true scientist and "scientist" pretender.... Read a bit more it will help....
You will learn for example that acoustical timbre phenomenon is not "a sujective taste and colors " added to the so called " real" information in bits....
😁
By the way accusing all people who were protesting here against this abuse to be sociopaths confusing intelligence with arrogance is itself a so stupid psychological judgement that, even for me trying to conclude that you are not stupid is very difficult.... I cannot....Help me...
By the way there is a thing called probability.... Sociopath constitute a minority in population then your reasoning that all people here in this thread protesting injustice here ( 4 or five have already manifest themselves) against the harshness of one, all those being are sociopaths if i read you, this is a judgement way improbable and not very wise.... The contrary is more probable...
Audio2design, Like Clint said," A man's got to know his limits." a very important trait for a physician if he does not want to get his a-s sued off and yes, I know some very dumb intelligent people. Physiologically, we all have remarkably similar characteristics and limits within a range. We all have noses and everyone knows what a human nose looks like and will identify it as such even though there can be pretty extreme variations in form, say Taylor Swift as compared to Jimmy Durante. Both of them do exactly the same thing. Noses very predictably smell unless they are diseased. We humans are predictable in many ways, millions of ways. The major variation in ability to adapt to and function in the environment we have created for ourselves is do to intelligence and training or learning if you will. One a matter of luck and the other parenting. There are exceptions such as personality disorders particularly of the antisocial type of which there are several examples in this forum. They confuse intelligence with arrogance. You are a perfect example of this confusion. Yes, it was harsh. It was meant to be.
audio2design My room is $150,000 with built-in activated chambered charcoal bass traps. I spent the money on the acoustics first in my new home. The electronics and cabling are not SOTA but the equipment and tweaks add up to about $75,000. Sure Legacy speakers are built to a price point. I’m getting as much as possible out of them and that’s better than the 100s of speakers I’ve heard. Only some really great speakers at much more than $10K sound better in really good systems. I’m looking to purchase Von Schweikert VR9SE MkII and hear the Evolution Acoustics MM2s or 3s. I’ve heard other speakers but the VRs I’ve heard (Ultras) have the best sound I’ve ever heard from my LPs and CDs. I can’t afford an Ultra right now. I still tell people that the older Legacy speakers are a steal for the sound one can get out of them. I had just moved in and Covid hit so that stopped me from hearing other speakers in showrooms. I intend to get back to that sometime in 2021. When I was a commercial R.E. appraiser, I appraised over 17 local sound studios in Los Angeles. Two studios used Legacy Focuses. Steve Hoffman used them for many remastered DCCs. I saw a recent NYC recording hall using new ones. Tom Port of Better Records uses them for testing for hot stampers. These are really fine speakers. New equipment does not mean better in all ways. It is difficult to do everything better than previous engineering.
Now you attributed a quality that Oregonpapa never attributed to himself, he is just an audio enthusiast who stumble on a probably good product then why so desperate unjust attacks?
Oregonpapa by the way is more modest than i am....I will take the attack on myself....😁
But after discussing with audiodesign i discover being myself almost modest....
HOWEVER, some (the usual suspects), attacked me personally
Now attacking all people for being satisfied customers and audiophile, you are the victim?
think about that:
You affirm to someone you dont know, who is friendly and polite always, that the product he bought is trash, his room is trash, his speakers are trash, and you accuse him of boasting himself being an audiophile god?
You will note my initial comments were purely about the product, and what it would or could do, and the apparent technical capabilities of the company.
surely you are joking?
The product is such that no one here can know how it work....The formula is unknown...
And you are a infaillible "genius" speaking only about secondary things not related to this formula and you called that intelligent criticism without having the product and no idea which is in it?
Criticizing the support of the product to be a refrigerator magnetic mat is an argument?
Mahgister, I am going to have to go back to not responding to you, because you are too lazy to formulate accurate arguments. You will note my initial comments were purely about the product, and what it would or could do, and the apparent technical capabilities of the company.
HOWEVER, some (the usual suspects), attacked me personally. When that happens, they are fair game, including their audio "cred". If they are going to act like audiophile "gods" while having poor speakers and often worse rooms, while I am going to point that out.
I never said whether it had 2, 3, 4, or 10 tweeters, I said it had bad integration of the two tweeters. The rear tweeter is not integrated. The front two are ....or are supposed to be. However, what resulted was a bit of a disaster.
You begin your coming in this thread by doubting ALL testimonies it is ok....
But you were NEVER interested by this product anyway save for bashing the customers who bought them....
You choose one customer system and try to demolish it by accusing the room to be unable to be good...
After that you tried to trash the speakers of one owner....
And by the way, the Signature IIIs have four tweeters, two rear-firing,
and not just two as you stated. Here’s some information on the
rear-firing tweeters from the owner’s manual:
I never said whether it had 2, 3, 4, or 10 tweeters, I said it had bad integration of the two tweeters. The rear tweeter is not integrated. The front two are ....or are supposed to be. However, what resulted was a bit of a disaster.
mijostyn3,589 posts01-27-2021 5:22pmArtemus, I am a physician that has to work with people like you on a daily basis. Odds on bet is that I have a significantly higher IQ than you do. You sir are a human with all the frailties there of. In the words of Clint Eastwood, "A man has to know his limits." You obviously do not. I hope the crash is not too bad.
And you called me harsh :-)
It’s always dangerous pulling out the IQ card. Remember that scene from Big Bang Theory,
Stephanie: Where did you get the stethoscope and the blood pressure cuff?
Sheldon: My aunt Marion gave them to me for my 12th birthday. She thought if I failed at theoretical physics that I should have a trade to fall back on. And by the way, the blood pressure cuff is called a sphygmomanometer
Now perhaps you were trying to equate intelligence to general curiosity, as a counterpoint to @artemus ’s attempt at an insult to accuse those who don’t "hear things" as being lacking in curiosity. Those with higher intelligence are more generally curious and there is some evidence to support higher specific curiosity as well, but that may be tied to some base aptitude in that area. Maybe you were referring to higher intelligence also indicating higher creativity?
It was still pretty harsh :-)
Equating subtle hearing memory and subtle hearing interpretations to gross sensory stimuli like salty or sour, is not helping your case Artemus. Do you ever confuse 100Hz and 10Khz? No? No one does, no more than they, absent a defect, confuse saturated blue for saturated red. However, if I tell you it is a $100 wine, or a $10 wine, or I put cheap wine in an expensive bottle (and vice versa), it has been shown (repeatedly) that your interpretation of how the wine tastes will be influenced.
Now Mijostyn, do you think you can convince your colleagues, far too many who think nothing of speaking publicly on all matters Covid, even though what they often speak about is things like covid transfer in specific environments (medical research/sciences/engineering), case growth rates (epidemiology, math, societal/human factors modelling), etc., things which they are obviously unqualified to speak on (which is apparent to someone intelligent). Intelligence does not confer expertise, but it can often breed unwarranted confidence.
"tried Mijostyn, but we are working in an alternate universe where a top system people have heard are based around 20 year old rather average even at the time Legacy speakers complete with some really bad integration of the two tweeters."
You are totally clueless.
And by the way, the Signature IIIs have four tweeters, two rear-firing, and not just two as you stated. Here’s some information on the rear-firing tweeters from the owner’s manual:
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