Roy only thing is im in Canada. I do have a local guy selling xp30 as I said. Maybe I can wait for xp32 or 22 to show up locally. Or maybe to get one of the US guys to ship.
Ya love Pass sound its awesome. But I am curious about tubes for sure. But if SS can do what tubes do, the tube magic then id love that because then you get the SS reliability. |
@smodtactical
I liked the REF6 more than the XP12 in the midrange from my recollection. The XP12, a bit better in the bass.
I really think the XP22 and XP30... awfully close. They both pop-up on sites occassionaly (a-gon, usam... it's one thing I like about hi-fi shark, you can shop for everything as it's a nice aggregator website). Looking at Hi-fi shark right now, there are xp32's, xp30's, xp22's..all out there in the USA.
My XP22 I purchased used, my 150.8 was used, and my 250.8 was new. No big deal. Pass is great and while I've not had an issue with any pass product, when I've e-mailed them they always take care of my questions very timely.
Just a great company. But, lots of great stuff out there! I happen to like Pass. They are a USA based company, they are really responsive, and it's hard to find one of their products that doesn't sound at minimum "good" with just about anything. Nelson and Wayne know how to build good sounding, good looking, and really well built gear.
But, yes, I am a pass fan. BUT, the sound came first. |
@roysq Thanks! Really interesting post. The XP12 even getting close to the ref6 is very impressive indeed! Too bad there was an XP22 for sale locally but I missed the deal. Maybe I'll wait for an XP32 to show up.
I do have an XP30 locally though but guessing the 32 is a big step up ?
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@smodtactical
Yes,
I did try an AR Ref 6. It's really good. While I like a bit of the 3d soundstage that a tube pre-amp can add, I have found that newer DAC's can and should do the same thing WITH a good solid state pre-amp.
The XP22 just did that for me. Don't get me wrong, the 32 did the same, and might have been even quieter, but man it was splitting hairs.
As for the XP22 vs XP30.
It's SO hard to tell differences when you try to keep things in the same chain and simply swap quickly. When it's obvious (like the XP12 to the XP22, and the Levinson sound vs Pass, or AR vs something else I found it easy to characterize that). But between top units from the same company it was more splitting hairs for me.
It's really hard when you want to make sure the DB levels etc are all matched also.
But, FOR ME, that XP22 was a really nice sweetspot. I could live with the 12 and would love the 32. But I dug the 22 for the cash.
Now XP12 vs the REF6... closer and might lean REF6 for me. |
@roysq 22 beating the 30 is quite impressive wow.
Did you directly compare 30 to 32 ? I asked desmond what has change but he didn't give me any specifics.
Also I read at least 1 comparison that found XP32 much superior to arc ref 6. Did you compare any of these to any tube linestages ?
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I would agree with what has been posted thus far. The Pass pre-amp's are quite nice. I feel the XP22 is the best bang for the buck of the line-up. But if you can swing the XP32... why not!
I felt the XP32 was better than the XP22, but not by much. I did feel the XP22 was actually better than the previous generation XP30.
But maybe that is what I wanted to hear... All are quite good! |
@jaytor thanks man will use a preamp then. |
The Terminator has a fairly high output impedance (I also have one). I would not recommend using a passive preamp since you'd have to use one with a fairly high impedance to avoid putting to much load on the DACs outputs. Then you're be driving your power amp with a very high impedance source. |
@douglas_schroeder
Yes. That’s why I was using one of each as far as DACs go.
But, I certainly appreciate I’m not the smartest audiophile in the room.
Just reporting what my ears heard. Recognizing that I’m just a humble audio nerd. Not a “professional reviewer”.
Though I have a dedicated, treated room and have owned quite a bit of gear since the 1980s... |
You can go the passive route but only with digital but you will lose dynamics if you go with a good full function preamp or preamp with phono stage you will be able to get the amplifier to sing at any volume level with any source but finding the right preamp can be a difficult one but it is worth the effort in the long run.
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@douglas_schroeder thanks for the clarification! That makes a lot of sense. I was shocked when a friend first showed me this and clearly I misinterpreted it.
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As a fellow Dagogo.com reviewer, a few comments. If I understand correctly, the comparison was between using the Pass preamp's attenuator vs. the Bricasti attenuator. If so, this was one very limited comparison, and should not be seen as any kind of holistic assessment of the Pass preamp. He did not seem to comment at all on the majority of sound parameters associated with both pieces, only the resolution at low level. Imo, it would be erroneous to conclude that a judgment was being made in regard to one being holistically superior to the other.
trudat,
If a dedicated DAC, not an integrated DAC( like the Bricasti, with a preamp output) is compared to having a preamp, then it would be expected that the insertion of the preamp would be superior, chiefly due to the lower output of the DAC not driving the amp well. Now, if this was a comparison of integrated DACs with preamp function direct to amp, that is an entirely different story. In nearly all cases of dedicated DAC to amp, the insertion of preamp is beneficial, no surprise there. I find, however, that I can build integrated DAC to amp systems that can perform superior to a given set of dedicated DAC/pre/amp.
IOW, it makes a BIG difference whether the DACs used in your comparison were dedicated or integrated. The results would change significantly based on that variable. Frankly, in recent years I am building more integrated DAC to amp, OR dedicated DAC to integrated amp systems and having superb results.
Finally, the amp makes as much difference as the pre and DAC. Pick the wrong amp and it pretty well doesn't matter what else you're doing, you're killing the sound quality. |
Do not have a dac have Esoteric o3XD cd player. |
Did a lot of experimentation the other day with a couple DAC's and my XP12 and a loaner XP22.
Ultimately, the XP22 plus DAC was the best combo 85%+ of the time.
I posted here a few days back. But, if you can afford a XP22 or XP32... it will out perform a DAC direct 85% of the time or so IMO.
XP22 really impressed me. I am hoping my dealer decides to sell this demo unit soon so I can afford it. I badly want it and to support them. But, I can't really swing full boat. They don't come up for sale that often I've found. |
Which dac did you have ebm? And did you compare it to dac direct to pass amp?
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These people now less than nothing a PASS preamp with the 350.8 will be a dynamic,musical,great bass detail combo.I had the PASS 350.8 with MAGICO speakers it was a great sounding combo.I would look at Audiogon or call Reno Hi Fi for a PASS preamp. |
