IMHO, your premise is off. Your Wiim may not change the data, but sending data is more than changing data. It passes the musical signal...data, sent with timing and with or without various types of noise in varying amounts.
There are hundreds of threads and articles about the differences in sound quality comparing various streamers. In a system with a worthwhile DAC like the Yggy, you should certainly have differences in the sound quality of a streamer. While the Wiim Pro certainly punches above it's cost, chances are good that you'd hear improvements in sound quality with a better streamer.
The quality of the power supply is a significant component of the performance and MANY use external linear power supplies from companies that specialize in these. In fact, many Wiim owners use those too to the best from their Wiim streamers. Personally, I prefer a separate LPS, as much of the best gear I've heard, especially preamps and streamers, keep the power supply external. With digital, a big piece of the puzzle is fighting noise via various strategies. Better streamers with good power supplies are a key example. Cheers,
Spencer
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Trust the answers you got on the Roon forum.
Audiogon is, in the majority, anti-bits-are-bits, or at least those folks are the dominant voice here.
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Not all Roon Endpoints created equal. For best performance with Roon both core and endpoint streamers need to be optimized.
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Question: is there any advantage to using a fancier (i.e., pricier) streamer than the Wiim Pro for this purpose? It does nothing except pass the digital data through to the DAC, nor would a fancier one do anything beyond that.
love it when people ask to just immediately answer their own question.
Are you trolling here?
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Not trolling at all. The question is if anybody has experience that says a higher-end streamer would do a better job -- and from some of the answers, there's the power supply to consider.
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My experience is that you get what you pay for.
Started my streaming journey in 2014 with a Bluesound Node N100 (the original plastic cube) and paired it with a Bryston BDA1. It was an enjoyable pairing, but this hobby being what it is, over time stepped up my game, and each time I felt the money spent was a worthwhile spend. Among the pieces that passed through were a Node 2i and Chord Qutest, a Melco N1A (great sound, horrible app), and in 2019 picked up a Roon Nucleus used first as a server streamer feeding the Qutest via USB, and fixed up both the Nucleus and Qutest with upgraded power supplies, Sbooster and Ifi Ipower Elite. Each step improved the SQ. An English 8 Switch entered the picture and stepped things up again. By 2022 a Bricasti M5 took over as Roon endpoint joined shortly after by a Rockna Wavelight DAC. Today I have a Rose RS130 as my Roon endpoint feeding the Wavelight via I2S and added a Melco switch into the mix as well. This is not to mention upgrades over the years to amplification and cabling. My one constant has been my speakers, a pair of Thiel 2.4s which I picked up in 2012. There has been joy experienced every step of the way.
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It seems to me that there can be some adventure to be had with something this seemingly basic.
I have two home systems, one the 'big' downstairs system and the other the 'media' system that also serves with a flat-screen TV and movies and all that. To date I have two streamers: a Wiim Pro, and a Bluesound Node (2024 model). Each outputs to a DAC -- one DAC is a Bryston BDA-3 and the other an Yggdrasil+.
I've done some swapping. Three takeaways:
1. The Wiim Pro + the Bryston BDA-3 didn't get along all that well. At streaming rates over 96K the Bryston started stuttering and couldn't sustain. I wondered if it might be a network thing since that system uses WiFi, but then I swapped the Bluesound Node in for the Wiim Pro and everything settled down. The Bluesound and Bryston work smoothly together, even at high streaming rates.
2. Both the Bluesound Node and the Wiim Pro work perfectly with the Yggdrasil+ at all streaming rates. To be sure, that's a wired Ethernet connection. When I added the Bluesound Node to the 'small' stereo with the Bryston, I moved the Wiim Pro to the 'big' stereo with the Yggy. All works just fine. That's where I am with the two systems now.
3. I can't tell any difference in the sound quality with either streamer connected to either DAC+rest of the system.
It was this little adventure that led me to ask this particular question. I can't as of yet discern any sonic difference between the Bluesound Node and the Wiim Pro when connected to the same DAC, with both set to act solely as bridges. I can attest that there was an operational difference between the two, at least in terms of their respective synergy with the two different DACs, which are both quite good products.
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@scottlfinsf
My observations based on your latest post:
The Wiim Pro and the Bluesound Node (2024) are both solid pieces of kit. You have found that they provide very similar SQ used as streamers feeding an outboard DAC, which makes sense given their price points. In my opinion well within the same order of magnitude.
My experience is that HiRes (especially as the rates get higher) and plain vanilla WIFI are problematic. If wired ethernet is available, it is typically the better way to go, but it isn't always practical to serve all locations in a given household with wired ethernet. Two workarounds I've employed are as follows: Mesh WIFI, with a Mesh WIFI Access Point feeding my stereo system via ethernet cable (you can check out my virtual systems page, where a Visio diagram spells the whole thing out). Employment of power line ethernet adapters. Here your mileage may vary, because I've found that some parts of the house are serviceable in this way, and others not so much. All things being equal, Mesh WIFI in my experience is the better way to go.
Now getting back to component sound quality in general and streamer sound quality in particular, my experience are that improvements in SQ relate to 2 factors: evolution of the technology over time and the quality of the components. With respect to level of quality and the price you pay for steps up in level of quality is pretty much a logarithmic scale. Again back to my own experience, a brand new Node 2i set me back around $430. A preowned Bricasti M5, which is simply a Network Bridge, but with much higher SQ in my opinion, cost me more than 3X what I spent for the Node 2i. My current Rose 130 outperforms the very competent Bricasti M5 to my ears, which well it should given the price difference.
In the end it all comes down to your ears, your preferences, your pocketbook and what you are willing to spend. There are No RIGHT or WRONG answers.
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@jazzman7
Thanks for all this great information. WiFi is an important issue; I rather wonder if the Bluesound Node works better upstairs than the Wiim Pro because the Bluesound has a more robust WiFi implementation -- that's the 'quality of components' issue right there.
I'm fascinated by how small changes can have big impacts. But mostly, just in how much my ear is happy and, in the long run, as you said, how happy I am with this stuff. That's the reason for exploring audio, after all. It's fun. I've upgraded my downstairs system almost entirely over this past year, but like you, I have kept my original pair of speakers through it all; in my case, B&W 803Ds. (Upstairs has B&W 805s models, also very nice.)
So it's a continuing journey. These days I'm not only having fun exploring streamers and their impact, but recently I've started using Roon.
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Is WiiM Pro a certified Roon endpoint now? Or are you streaming from Roon to WiiM using AirPlay? How are you streaming to Bluesound?
How is all this set up? What sources are you using? Qobuz, Tidal, Spotify, local music files? If you don’t hear any sonic differences between BS Node and WiiM Pro on B&W speakers something is not right.
The Wiim does nothing to the data; it just passes it through directly.
There’s no such thing as a Roon pass-through. Doesn’t exist.
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Is WiiM Pro a certified Roon endpoint now?
Yes.
Or are you streaming from Roon to WiiM using AirPlay?
No. Roon to Wiim Pro is over standard Ethernet, Cat7 cable to be precise.
How are you streaming to Bluesound?
Via home network with WiFi.
How is all this set up?
NAS with local files, connected to home network via Ethernet; MacMini (M4) on Ethernet runs the Roon Server. Active endpoints include Wiim Pro (Ethernet), Bluesound Node (WiFi), a MacBook Pro computer (Ethernet), and an Apple HomePod (WiFi).
What sources are you using? Qobuz, Tidal, Spotify, local music files?
All of the above except for Spotify.
Worth mentioning: I'm in the process of upgrading part of the system now. Look like I'm going to be replacing the Wiim Pro in the main downstairs unit with a HiFi Rose RS130. This should be a big, big change.
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When I tried WiiM Pro it wasn’t yet certified with Roon. Good to know they finally got that done. It’s an OK streamer with Qobuz and Tidal but I wouldn’t put it in a system with B&W 800 series speakers.
What you need to consider is the following:
1. When you have your streamer connected to the DAC via coax you rely on the clock in the streamer. Given the price of WiiM we can safely assume the clock used in this unit isn’t anything special. It’s almost always best to use USB to DAC to rely more on clock in the DAC. With most modestly priced streamers you will get better sound using USB.
2. Your Roon Core matters.
3. Digital cables including Ethernet cables matter
Rose should be a nice step up.
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Update: the HiFi Rose RS130 died after two weeks so it's back to Crutchfield for a refund.
I'm using a recent-model Bluesound Node in digital passthrough mode in the RS130's place. It doesn't have the cool screen. But -- full disclosure here -- I can't hear one iota of difference between the Bluesound and the RS130.
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