I thought starting a new thread would be more appropriate since it would allow for a more focused discussion.
I have Paradigm S8v2s and have owned them, since new, for 8 years. I have lived with them happily and when I bought them I knew they were going to be a long term purchase. Cables, sources etc may come and go but big speakers are harder to find, harder to move and sell (I think). I found a local dealer (the only one in BC so far) that has the entire Persona line; except the 7F. They had the 9H, 5F, 3F and Monitor. I got to hear all of them. The 9H was in a dedicated room set up for home theatre. The others were in a 2 channel only system. Preamp/source was a Cambridge Audio preamp with a media player built in, Wadia Class D amps. System was nice, sounded good and not the "highest end" you would expect, but more real world. I took along a CD of Parijat: Prayer to Love (excellent CD BTW. Highly recommended and wonderfully recorded). I am very familiar with the CD. My system has its own room, Luxman Class A amps, Luxman preamp, Bryston DAC, Nordost and Wirewizard Cables. I think my system has an edge on electronics, but I will leave that out as I think that is splitting hairs.
First speaker I heard was the 5F. The first thing that is immediate is the midrange and treble purity, clarity, integration, smoothness and extension. I definitely say there is no discontinuity between the mid/tweeter. Having a Beryllium tweeter myself I know what to expect, and the 5F did not disappoint. The sound was relaxed, clear, focused with excellent detail. No harshness, grain, etch or sibilance at all. Imaging was also excellent; focused, wide and deep with good height. Note that the 5F, 3F were right beside each other and the Monitors on stands right beside the 3's. They were in an open room not a dedicated room, so I could only suspect the speakers would sound better as the environment would get better. In short, the tweeter/mid was superb. The best I have heard. I would give the edge to the Persona's over my S8's in this regard, but given the mid and tweeter are both Beryllium they are going to have identical resonances on the fact the material is the same; it will be homogenous. The S8 is no slouch, so the differences are small, but I give the Persona the edge here. And I like my S8's. I have not felt wanting.
The description for the mid/tweeter is identical for each model; there was no difference, perhaps a slight difference for the Monitor but its limited lower end might of SEEMED things to be more clear/detailed. Hard to say. Bottom end on the 9H was robust, to be polite, but to be expected too.....4 8 inch cones internally powered...I think a subwoofer here would be redundant in all but the largest rooms to be sure. But the snap, punch and detail were excellent. Moving to the 5 and 3, the bottom end was not as prodigious but still extended and tuneful. Detail was excellent but to be expected the 5 was more pronounced than the 3. I think both (and the Monitor for sure) would benefit from a sub, but I leave that to the reader's personal taste. There was no evidence of port noise or discontinuity of any type. Unfortunately, I have yet to find out (if you would like to bi amp) WHERE the biamp crossover is. I found out the hard way on my S8 it is between the tweeter/mid, not the mid/bass as you would expect. This would allow for a Class A or tube amp on the all important mid/tweeter and a robust amp for the bottom end. I would like Paradigm to be clear on this point as finding out the hard way for me was costly. I let a good Bryston amp go for no reason other than the fact it was not able to work in my system as planned.
I suppose the real question is this: are they worth it? Well, I thought about my own system on the drive home, and since my system's weak point is NOT the speakers, I would, for me, not buy or let my S8 go unless someone gave me a good offer. The logistics of selling speakers that are 4 feet tall, almost 2 feet deep and 100lbs is not a small feat, and shipping (unless local pickup) will be expensive. I bought the S8 knowing it was going to be with me for a long time, and in fact I would rather keep them since they are so good (to me). But I would buy the Personas for sure. The high end purity and midrange clarity, coherence and detail are so good I was floored by how good it was. Bottom end weight and volume is a personal preference, and adding subs obviates the comparison there, as either the 5 or 3 would be a killer system with subs. I had extended time with the 5 and 3 and the jump in price between the two makes sense if the sub is out of the equation. I think the added bottom end on the 5 could easily be made up with the 3 and a good sub, think JL Audio f112, e110 or e112. An outboard crossover as part of the deal would be stating the obvious (in fact the JL Audio CR 1 crossover is what I am eyeing next. With this, should some time down the road come I decide to jump up to the Personas finances permitting, it would greatly affect what Persona I get). But by then I might have a different room so whom knows, but so long as the flexibility is there you have options. I was hoping to see the 7F but the 9H is almost identical in size. Considering the competition they are up against I think they hold very well. Making a matching Beryllium tweeter and mid is no small feat, and costly to boot. Moreover, Paradigm's size and economy of scale is such that you get more than you pay for, this has been a Paradigm hallmark. A smaller company could bring out a matched Beryllium set, perhaps, but at what cost? I can see why the Persona line costs more, but after seeing them and listening to them, I don't feel at all that they are overpriced or outrageous. Obviously the sound is what counts, but there is more to it than that. I honestly think you get what you pay for; the real trick is finding the goods out there that go a step further and really offer the "diamond in the rough". For me personally, the cost and logistics of selling my current speakers is not something I can do right now. But if I could, I would have no issue owning a Performa. The 7F is what I have sought my sights on, but the 5F is no slouch. As a smaller speaker, there is little to fault the 3F and add in a sub (or two)....watch out. Even without subs, the 5 and the 3 are more than pleasant, and in a enclosed room where there is room reinforcement......it would be interesting to know.
Pictures do not do the speakers justice. They are gorgeous. Fit and finish is superb, certainly better than my S8. The lenses are really trick. I don't think there should be any trouble with the WAF but their styling is a bit modern, some might not like it. The room presence is not nearly as strong as you would think; the S8 being so deep and narrow hides in the room well. The Personas do as well, but are so gorgeous you don't want to hide them. You would think the 9H to be imposing, but that is not the case, especially if you are use to bigger speakers anyway.
I am very impressed and happy that the "step up" Paradigm has made has been done well, with thought, focus and obvious results. As to relative to what is out there, especially to what I have heard, they compete favourable with much more expensive speakers, and I have heard Focals (which is another brand I like because, surprise, they have a Beryllium tweeter). I just think the matching tweeter/mid, especially at the price, is hard to beat. And I am sure that the better the gear upstream would only help the sound. The 5Fs or 3Fs in my system with the gear I have would be very interesting.
Who knows what the year brings. I give the Personas the highest recommendation, and this is from someone whom has owned a good pair for years without complaint. If anyone is thinking of trying out a pair I urge you to do so if possible before making any decisions. Paradigm, with the Personas, has truly evolved into a high end brand, and deserves consideration as such.
"Aside from all the praise of the Persona line, I find it refreshing to
see how efficient/sensitive they are as compared to some of their
competition. Possibly a good match for tube components. Curious to see
the impedance behavior across the frequency spectrum. I personally would
love to hear/read a direct comparison between the 7F and my favorite
and comparably priced box speakers, the Revel Salon2 and Monitor Audio
PL300 ii".
Interesting comment kalali, I was interested in the S-8 Sig's. A local audio shop had both these and the Revel Salon II's on hand. We tested them with Mac gear and I have to admit that I preferred the Paradigms over the Revels and at half the price it was simply a no brainer.
I think with the 9H in particular, a tube amp would be ideal, as the bottom end, the tube amps weak spot, is obviated by the powered section. I use Class A amps on my S8s and they are phenomenal. I hope one of the major publications does a full review at some point, especially considering how many speakers they review and can compare to.
I listened to the persona 3F at a local dealer that had them connected to Burmester 956 amp and a mcintosh tube pre amp. Sounded very smooth and warm.
I then listened to them with Ayre equipment(which i generally love). With that equipment they sounded more hard. Not sure why. Seems to me that the Personas are probably very system dependent.
I agree though. I think a fantastic tube set up on the 9Hs would sound great!
I was refraining from commenting but hey this is the internet. A place where vast knowledge can be found but instead we argue with strangers ;)
Anyways, I lugged my Mccormack DNA-225 and Cambridge CXN out to a local shop. I was initially interested in the Aerial Acoustic 7T's. When I listened to them I could not find a fault but they were not my thing. I tried some Bryston's and some others in the price range. These also did not speak to me if you will.
The guys thought I should check out the Persona 3f. They did not say much about them, just thought they might work for me.
It was like Goldilocks with the other speakers being too hot or too laid-back. The 3f sounded just right. Not too bright but detailed, smooth and punchy when called for. I am going to listen to them again and see about an in house trial, I really like these.
Had 20 min audition of the Persona 3F at a local dealer with all McIntosh electronics. Room set up was less than optimal because the dealer just moved into a new building and was still setting up systems. No significant room treatment. Under these less than ideal conditions, I heard very good transparency and extension both in bass and high frequency. However, the sound was hard, as one would expect from metal drivers. I'll have to revisit when everything is optimally set up.
Hi everyone, I just caught up with this thread this morning and it amuses me to no end that it has digressed ( and degenerated) so much away into a fist fight of "who's is bigger". The way people go about defending their views on speaker brands seems like they have a financial interest in them! Anyway, short of sermonizing, my take is that there will always be the next best thing because of constant innovation. When I bought my Rockport Aviors, they were said to compete in a league way above their price point......and I truly believe that they still do in many respects. But that doesn't make them the only giant killers out there. The Revel Salon 2, which is another speaker i love, is even cheaper and in my view, still better ( in my view)than most costing twice. The point I make is that speaker choice, like most others in this hobby, is highly system dependent and very personal. As much as I like the meaty presentation of the Aviors, they aren't for everyone out there....and they are also very system dependent. They sound amazingly dynamic and transparent driven by my Burmester monos. But may not sound as lush if paired with a 30 watt SET ( my view pls). As to speaker companies and their resources, while I truly respect what Paradigm have been able to achieve with the resources that they have, the same goes for companies like JBL, Yamaha and Pioneer ( the erstwhile owner of TAD). by the way these companies have even deeper pockets and some of their products probably punch way above their weight class like the JBL M2 and now the Yamaha NS 5000 ( I haven't heard them so I won't comment). So, my point is that we should probably focus more on the attributes of the personas and the electronics that they should be paired with to bring out the best in them, instead of engaging in this fist fight which will never reach conclusion.
apologies if this sounds like a rant.......I just felt compelled!!
Had a listen to the 3f's tonight. They are a very impressive speaker. Very detailed but not fatiguing. Nice tight and punchy bass, wide soundstage. A very smooth sounding speaker. I preferred them over the Aerial Acoustics 7t's which I heard a couple of weeks ago.
Interesting, recently did a similar bake-off over a couple of weekends. Listened to Spendor, Kef, Bryston, Aerial and Paradigms. For me it came down to the Aerial 7Ts and Paradigm 3fs. I listened to both for hours and was able to A-B them on tracks I am familiar with. To me they were so close in all respects. Both speakers disappeared in the room....fantastic range, clarity and imaging and to say that I could live with either is an understatement. To my ears the most noticeable difference was at the top end and after extended listening sessions I just liked the 7Ts better (and bought them:) As mentioned in other posts, all of these are good enough to reveal the different electronics driving them. Do an apples to apples comparison, then listen to them with your gear and do a home demo if you can. Your ears are the only ones that matter...if you give it enough time and keep an open mind, you don't have to choose a speaker, the speaker will choose you.
Thanks Audio Doctor + staff for the commentary here. It was well received by me and it showed me that you guys have similar thinking to me. I think I will fly to NY and visit your store when I am ready to buy my new system. I have been trying to find a place to hear both the Persona line and KEF Blades. I like big companies with large research budgets trying to make a state of the art pieces. I love the Blades but the Persona line was something I knew I had to hear when I read about them almost 1 year ago (SoundStage site).
The Blades are the speaker that has made the most sense to me so far. I am thinking of using the new Devialet 1000 integrated with them. After reading this thread, the Persona with the T+A sounds interesting (though I do not like to use separate analog preamps any more since I went all digital)
BTW - I am hoping soundstagenetwork does a review of the Persona and Blades. I emailed D. Schneider of SSN back in July 2016 requesting such a comparison when the Persona was released.
Dear yyzsantabarbara We do have both the KEF Blades and the Persona 9H on active display.
I will say they are very different both are excellent and do different things.
We would welcome you to come spend the day and demo to your hearts content.
We were a Devialet dealer, we wanted to like the Devialet stuff and in some ways it was very good it just never sounded magical, it always lacked the midrange liquidity and airy quality of the best conventional solid state designs.
After many years of looking for truly magical yet reasonably priced solid state line, we found T+A after reading the TAS Allan Taffel review where Mr. Taffel compared the $19k T+A PA 3000 HV integrated to his own CH Precision Mono block amps, preamp and power supply which is an over $100k stack of some of the finest Swiss electronics out there, and in a direct A/B comparison Mr. Taffel found that there was almost no real differences between these two stellar companies. So you can imagine how thrilling it is to be able to offer our clients a $19k piece which rivals $100k priced gear!
So you can also imagine how thrilled we were to get in their even better separate amp, and preamp from the HV series, and boy do they deliver.
The T+A gear is extraordinary it is designed using a topology which actually mirrors the smoothness of tubes yet offers the slam and dynamics and low noise floor of the best solid state, their technology is called High Voltage design, which ramps up the voltage to the devices which is why tubes sound so musical, running certain devices on higher voltage rails increases the linearity of those devices, greater linearity equals less distortion and gives you the ease and musicality of tubes!
I would highly recommend you consider the T+A gear it is truly magical.
Your interest in these two speakers says a lot about you.
Our feeling is that both of these remarkable loudspeakers can compare with much more expensive products in the $70 range from many other companies.
Audio Doctor showcased the Blades in the 2012 and 2013 New York audio shows. Our setup in 2012 setup sounded in our opinion as good as the $400k Solution/YG Sonja setup and our setup with the Chord Ref electronics was 1/4 of the price of that setup.
The T+A gear has more of a tube like quality then the Chord electronics and we have found even better digital so our newer setups are even more magical.
So in many ways the Blades are a fantastic speaker that performs much higher then its price point.
As per the Personas they are remarkable and in some ways more so then the Blades.
We have had over the years, the Scaena Line Arrays,$60k,the $70k Polymers, we auditioned the latest Kharama DB 7 and the $120 Kharma Midi Exquistes here, and all of these speakers were superb in some ways, we have chosen the Blades and now the Personas as two somewhat sanely priced reference speakers that can easily challenge the uber expensive $50-70k products on the market.
In holography, transparency, speed and articulation the Personas are very hard to beat at any price.
Thanks for your detailed response. I can see you are a fan of audio. I will take you up on your invite to listen to the 2 speakers I am interested in. I will be doing this when I have cash in the bank to buy. It has been a long time since I had a big rig system (8 years) and I am hoping to finally buy the big rig at the end of this year.
Strictly by chance I listened to a pair of the Persona 9H at a store I haven't been into in a few years being driven by ARC electronics that I've never even seen before, so.
I once owned Paradigm Studio 100v1, v2s, and auditioned S8s, in my home with a merry go round of electronics.
The opportunity arose to purchase a pair of Avalon Acoustics Eidolons. With the v2s and the S8s still in the house the first few minutes with the Eidolons my wife, son, and I, all noticed an incredibly different presentation regardless of the electronics. Relocating the Avalons greatly improved the sound stage. The S8s did not benefit from the new location and their shortcomings were now glaring.
In hindsight it became obvious that with the Paradigms and all their top to bottom performance for the dollar I was constantly listening to the system wondering if I was there yet.
The store had a very familiar LP of which I listened to two tracks — the best Paradigm speakers I've ever listened to. Once back home and after the same two tracks, it must be a matter of personal sonic and visual taste.
Regarding bass performance. I have two Velodyne DD-12 Plus irregularly located with the only bass node in an unused area of the room. Full range remote controlled volume and six different equalization settings. Save your money, get anything Vandersteen and two good subwoofers.
Not heard these yet. The woofer construction appears to be world class JL audio style for ultra low distortion at high SPL. This is serious engineering! Many loudspeakers and buyers seem to underestimate how badly outsourced lower quality woofers can ruin the midrange (even expensive well done mid range like the accuton)
A pair of Avalon Edilions depending on which version were very expensive $30K plus speakers would of course they would sound better than a pair of Paradigm Signatures, in terms of cabinet inertness, and crossover and build quality the Avalons are a much more expensive design.
The Signatures were a very good speaker but not a world class product.
As per the Personas it took us weeks to setup and tweak the speakers before they came alive. They are very transparent and unless you have everything just right they will not sound magical, but if you spend the time to match the correct components with them, the results will be extra ordinary.
Auditory, I was fortunate to purchase locally a pair of basic cherrywood Avalon Eidolons in 2012 for $11K. In my opinion $35K is in the "world class" neighborhood.
In my experience all the Paradigms I owned or auditioned at home were not very good speakers even for the money. They did go low and high for the money but they lacked cohesiveness and, while to a much lesser degree, the Persona continue that presentation.
I've been told by much more experienced professionals than myself that the method by which Avalon and Vandersteen deal with time and phase has jaded my preference to their presentation. Hence my suggestion to the original poster to consider a pair of Vandersteen Treo CTs $8K and a pair of Velodyne DD-10 Plus $6.6K and spend the remaining $20K on a stunning turntable or a vacation.
Mr. Dbm you may be jaded to the Treo CT presentation, however, many people are not, to even suggest a pair of Treos plus subs can equal the Personas is just silly.
As per value per money and performance, all the Paradigms have had a reputation for offering terrific performance for the money as well as offering very good sound, for the price point they are hitting.
We had a pair of the Signature S6 V3 and they were excellent speakers, for their price range around $7k, the earlier V2 were not as coherent, do they sound like a pair of Treos no, they don't they have a completely different sound and I would take a pair of Avalons over them as well they are not in the same league.
The Personas are very coherent as the midrange and tweeter are both made out of Beryllium so they sound identical and very blended.
The Vandy sound is just that, some people like them while many others do not, what I find appalling is the how many people here put a particular brand on a pedestal and say that that one brand is above all others and nothing else can sound as real.
My posts about the Personas was they are not better than any other speaker but in some ways may outshine some of those other well respected brands, and to relate that they offer outstanding performance for the money in the price ranges they are hitting, which starts at $7k.
Can you imagine the accolades if Wilson or Magico produced a technologically advanced product that started at $7k for a pair of bookshelves or $10k for a pair of floor standing loudspeakers. Everyone here would be blasting the forums with this exciting news, yet Paradigm is getting flack by people questioning if is is possible for a company which based their reputation for value now all of a sudden building a new and highly competitive flagship line.
Sure we have tested them vs the other reference speakers we had in the shop and are featuring them due to their amazing level of performance for the money as well as for the sound quality which in certain ways, image holography and transparency can be compared to extremely expensive loudspeakers for $70k and above.
Will you or anyone here who is a Vandy fan love the Persona sound, probably not, I would also think that that same person would not like a Magico, a Wilson, Focal, or YG.
Horses for courses,
Lets stop the product basing and brand bashing and have people go to the shops and just listen and then judge for themselves.
Go visit a few shops to see how you like the products setup with different gear to see if your opinion may change on what gear and how the speakers are being setup.
When we were first exposed to the Paradigm Personas we were not impressed due to the particular dealers gear, cabling and source setup, but saw the speakers potential, and thus we ordered a pair.
It was only after weeks of setup and trying different things did the speakers blossom into the demo rig we have now. When ever you have a very transparent speaker you will be forced into working hard to balance the products transparency with enough warmth to make the resulting demo setup to be musically satisfying
You are welcome if you are in our part of the world to come and check out our rig who knows you may like it.
Audiotroy. Have you ever listened to a pair of Vandy Treo CT's with subs? I have, at length, and I can tell you NOT SILLY! It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to tell you the much better value would be the Vandy set up rather than the Paradigm Personas at 35k...
I have heard the Treos before, and no they are not even close in any way to the Personas, they do not have the resolution and transparency, nor do they have the dynamics. The only Vandy that can compete with the Persona 9H is the Vandy 7, but not the Treos, and the Carbon Fiber tweeter doesn’t have the resolution that the Beryllium drivers have.
I was in the Brooklyn audio show a few years back and heard a fully blown setup of the 7, and the speakers sounded very good, they were very musical just not a impressive a sound compared to the other $70k speakers that I have heard, very natural though and very musical, I had the same opinion of the 7’s too low a sound stage for a $60k plus speaker.
Also it is also impossible to have a Carbon fiber tweeter to have the same sonic signature of the midrange driver which in the case of the Treo is from an entirely different material, I don’t care how talented a designer Richard is, different materials sound different there is no getting around that simple fact.
I could see the argument made for the Quattro which uses the same driver materials but not for the Treo.
I have also had the Velodyne DD series in our shop and the JLs were way better in every way.
The Treos are also way too short to present a convincing sound stage in terms of image height.
You are morre then welcome to your opinion as I am to mine, I would take our well setup Persona 9H to the twice the price Vandy 7s any day of the week and pocket the $35k difference!
You are also welcome to come to our shop and take a listen to our setup. I would welcome the chance to hear yours and I would eat my hat if proved wrong would you do the same?
Treo CT and Quatro Wood CT have Identical drivers. The difference is in the powered subwoofer section of the Quatros that the Treo CT does not have. I'm not into "hat eating" and I will give my assessment of the Personas "good, bad, or indifferent" when I get a chance to hear them in or near Arizona where I live. I'm pretty sure if I heard them, and did not give them a glowing assessment you would tell me I was biased toward Vandersteen or the Persona's were improperly set up.
I am interested to hear more reviews on the speakers in this line that I could "possibly" afford... How are the 3F speakers? What about the CC speaker? Has anyone heard that? I am looking at possibly picking up the Aerial 7T's, which I have heard and liked, and was told to check these out but I don't really have a dealer near me so that makes it hard. It also kind of scares me that, apparently, we have to be very critical of the electronics we use with these speakers. I am not a rich man and would probably only be able to pair them with an Anthem AVM-60 and an ATI amp. How would that work out?
I am someone who doesn't have a dedicated audio room. My listening takes place in my living room, which also happens to be where I watch my movies. Can I get other's opinions on whether or not you think that this line of speakers would work for the average Joe like like me?
(Please don't bash my questions as this is a true inquiry from someone who just loves the hobby and would like real advice. Thank you.)
The Persona web site states that the 3Fs are a bass reflex design. Is this correct? I ask because a styling element running through out the Persona range is a notch in the bottom rear of the cabinet, I assume to allow a port to vent to the outside of the cabinet. The 3Fs lack this notch. If the 3Fs are a bass reflex design, why would Paradigm omit this design element on them?
"
I am interested to hear more reviews on the speakers in this line that I could "possibly" afford... How are the 3F speakers? "
I heard the 3Fs. They are very revealing and throw a great image. Very good presence, an dplay great with many different genres.
"
The 3Fs lack this notch. If the 3Fs are a bass reflex design, why would Paradigm omit this design element on them?"
Unsure, the 5F has one more woofer, and 7F and 9H have bigger woofers, the port may be spaced out that way to let them breathe. The 3F possibly doesn't need that gap.
Thanks for the replies. My first assumption too was that any port would be downward firing. Where else could it be?
contuzzi: with all respect, may I ask how you know the port is in the bottom? Have you actually looked at the bottom of a 3F and seen a port? Enquiring minds want to know!
nitewulf: oddly enough, the 9H with, four of the larger woofers, has the "port notch" but is specified as an acoustic suspension design. Indeed, the cutaway of the 9H on the Persona website reveals the lack of any port. Go figure.
contuzzi: Ah! Thanks for the information! I was pressing the point because I think it odd that, with all the attention to detail evident in the Persona lineup, the designers would use a downward firing port without some sort of plinth to ensure that the port fired into a consistent space. Especially since they incorporated such a solution into the other tower designs, whether the design needed it or not. I suppose now we will read debates about whether the 3F's bass is better on a smooth surface or a carpeted surface, as well as tips on how to tune the bass by sliding towels under it.
Does the Audio Doctor staff do anything besides hijack Audiogon forums in the hopes of hawking their gear and annoying anyone who has the misfortune to come in contact with their posts? Just shamelessly relentless and plain wrong. Please consider their motives!
I now know that matching beryllium drivers insures coherency and there is an established speaker hierarchy. I just knew old age is having its way, silly me.
We have quite a bit of experience with these speakers, so perhaps others may find my posts informative.
As per matching Beryllium ensuring coherencey it is matching anything, same materials for tweeter and midrange driver, that doesn't ensure coherency, but by having the exact same materials you may get way closer than say a Diamond tweeter and a Kevlar midrange, which are too very disimilar materials with different signatures, so you are hadicaped to begin with.
As per you Cupracer, again this is a Persona thread isn't it. Hardly trolling a Wilson thead now?
I do see that everything I have been saying about these speakers has been vefified in the TAS article hasn't it? Maybe we know a thing or two about what makes great sound and picking great products.
As per motives, lets see perhaps I was trying to save you $20k over the Alexias which would not have worked in your room, the motive was to point out to you an alternative that you were probably not thinking of or aware.
I call that trying to help, and the fact that you were on the East coast just happend to fall that way, you could have been in California which would have meant we would have gained zero by talking with you believe it or not the initial post was to open your eyes to room correction and how you could have accheived perhaps even better sound in your room.
And for the guys who heard the Personas setup at some other dealers, that doesn't mean they sound this way in our shop. The owner almosted passed on them when he head the 9H at another dealers, they didn't sound amazing at that dealers.
We have the matching equipment, dacs, cables, power conditioners and it took us weeks to get them right.
Sorry if these posts come across as selling, if instead we weren't being attacked for our" bad behavior, " maybe some of the points which were raised would have landed.
Oh and by the way Cupracer, one gentleman did talk with us who is a Wilson Sasha owner and was looking for new electronics, He took our advice and purchased a T+A intergrated amp from I guess his local dealer he is in California and was bowled over with how much better the T+A amp was vs the Pass labs and a few other pieces he was looking at.
We gained nothing, but we did help that gentleman and he was not aware of the T+A gear either and he is very happy with how that piece sounds.
So you never know who we may be assisting. Come over to our shop and talk with me or Dave and then see for your self. The chance of selling you something seems very low, so we won't tempt you.
Audiotroy. Most of the people here are just plain "sick and tired"of your constant pushing of Paradigm down their throats. You're a dealer and what you think is helping people is nothing more than "annoying" and bloviating on your part. As far as the TAS article is concerned, yes, he liked the Persona, but his reference faves are still the Magico S7's and the Legacy Aeris system.
I live in the Boston area, and had the good fortune to demo the 3F's last weekend in my system. They are astounding and I believe they live up to the hype -- I have a pair on order.
Audiotroy -- thanks for your tips. Re: my system, going back upstream from the speakers, (which are currently amazing Acoustic Zen Adagios. Not in the same class as the Personas, but incredibly involving), I have a Gato Amp 150 integrated, Acoustic Plan Digimaster DAC, SOTM SMS 200 network adapter, Zuma server -- a windows 10 box, cobbled together by me, with inspiration from Chris Connaker at Computer Audiophile and Ben Zwickel at Mojo Audio, running Roon.
The Gato isn't well known in the U.s. -- it is Danish, from the folks who were once Gamut. It made some serious magic with the 3F demos -- mine are scheduled to arrive Friday -- fingers crossed.
alleng -- they are silver sonic. or sonic silver. I think DH Labs got the name before them. ;<]
Alleng -- I've had the 3F's up and running for a few weeks now, and they are truly glorious. All the positive attributes noted in this thread -- the holography, the speed, etc. --- are evident. I worried that the price for this might be an etched or harsh element in the presentation. Quite the contrary.
I can't put my finger on it, but I am convinced there is something to having the mid and tweeter made of the same material. In retrospect, with my Adagios, there was "tension" around the higher frequencies, something that was really subliminal. Like so much in audio, I only noticed it when it was gone.
There is a "largeness" or "generosity" (sorry, really scraping for descriptors here) in the presentation with the 3F's that makes them utterly unfatiguing. A good is example is one of my favorite Clifford Brown CD transfers from the mid 1980s. A good deal of the brightness that I always attributed to the shoddy transfer was really in the playback equipment. I'll never confuse this disk with something from BIS or Chandos, but it is WAY more enjoyable now. Clifford Brown's chops on the trumpet are legendary -- Miles Davis was a fan, but accused him of playing too many notes. I think he was jealous.
In any event, hearing Clifford Brown come thru on these speakers is a world class experience --- one that convinces me (at least temporarily) that I am not insane for the $$ I've invested in this hobby. -- David
For anyone going to the LA Audio Show in June 2-4. The Persona (not sure which model) will be demoed by Shelleys Stereo in one of the rooms (likely room #433).
Wow! Congrats on the speakers arriving safe and sound! I'm so glad to read that you are enjoying your music through them. My guess is that as the speakers break in, or that you learn to notice more details, they will sound better and better to you. How is the bass? Does it blend well with the mid-range and up? How do you like the enclosure finish?
One of my bugaboos is speakers that have to play loudly to bring out detail. Are these good at moderate or even quiet levels?
If you can, please keep the forum informed on your thoughts as you spend more time with them. Even if you can't, I hope you enjoy them for years to come!
No plutos musifx bought the 2500r which is the baby brother of the PA 3000 HV. The 2500R is $11,500.00 and it is really quite amazing in its price range. He compared it to the $12k Pass integrated check his posts.
The Pass stuff is very good, the T+A gear is an overall cleaner, faster sound with remakable sound staging abilities and it does have a nice hint of midrange warmth.
Take a Naim and mix it with a Solution clean yet warm, punchy but with great resolution but without sterility, Quite amazing stuff.
It`s very interesting info. I`m based in Europe and will probably try some newer T+A gear soon. So far I`ve been a big Pass and Burmester fan. Earlier T+A had a bit of mass market product reputation. Certainly a high-end but not quite a Burmester or MBL for Germans. It seems that things are changed now, especially with their newer HV and R lines.
Sorry I’m late on this one but am seriously interested in new, or at least, new to me speakers within the $10K to $25K range for a future build hopefully by end of year, but likely not till next. Until then, its merely due diligence with Sonus Faber, Focal, Magico S line, and now these Personnas.
Given the spec sheets, Personas seem a very likely landing spot for a totally tube powered and controlled outfit, which is what I think I want to put together this time in a fully balanced setup.
Naturally, the obvious thing is I’ll have to hear them first, regardless the front end driving them. Metallic drivers have always seemed to put me off somehow, except in the most expensive of loudspeakers being pushed by very nice gear. But keeping an open mind is always beneficial in the very subjective wild and wooly audio world.
Its always great to see someone do something to infuse value and performance simultaneously into new products being set onto the audio landscape.
Apart from the Personna’s lineup possibly heightened performance to cost ratio, Paradigm has a huge obstacle to overcome as the direct result of their own inherent decades old building and marketing philosophy, namely “being mentioned now in the same breath as mainstream top tier speaker makers”. Not too many folks usually do that.
Currently what comes to mind when someone says ‘Paradigm’? IMHO, it sure ain’t a solution for anyone seeking SOTA high end performance in the loudspeaker realm. Even the Studio lineup merely tapped on the door of better fashioned and performing speakerage, but missed cornering a strong market share or doing much better than getting a foot into the door just into more performance than value oriented . speakers.
Changing many minds about their perception of Paradigm as an alternative solution for speakers priced north of $8K or so is their most immediate battle.
.although Paradigm is promulgating much info on Youtube regarding R&D of the Personna line, they ain’t following the usual marketing trends by flooding magazines and online reviewers listening rooms with product.
Somehow, I don’t feel presently that Paradigm went ‘all in’ though. I think they went ‘almost’ all in. I hope I’m wrong but I just ain’t feeling it.
Example, their in the ‘7’ model, it well could have had one amp vs. the twins onboard the model ‘9H’, handling the woofers. A likely upgrade path for the 7F v.2 or 7F v.3 series, yet to come.
Is the PPA grill actually needed or how does it truly affect the sound, on or off of the associated driver?
Having been quite removed from the audio world by and large for health and other pressing concerns in recent years, I’m astonished as to what has transpired since the ‘‘Obomonomics bail out’ as it affected especially high end audio. Prices have not just soared into the upper atmospheres, but have bought a ticket on the X flights to space.
Viewing the Nordost odin 2 price sheet is not something one with a weak heart should do before breakfast.
OMG. Wow. $30K power cords! Entire system Ground blocks? Sheesh.
Without a ‘wink wink accomodation’ merely wiring an entire system can run well over $100K if one so desires, which gives me an immense jolt of amusement.
…and yeah, I believe wires are important but I’d not put a couple of new Tesla’s into the wiring loom even if I could afford it.
Never before have I seen the use of cabling wherein I need to read an owners manual before I begin, or have one of these cable makers engineers personally come in to configure the cable hook ups.
Pretty regularly I refuse to read about, or listen to much of what I can not afford unless it just so happens it is at either an acquaintance home or its a take a peek at what could be, in a show room I was at entertaining some new to me device already.
We should look upon Paradigm’s latest endeavor as a breath of fresh air being cast into the insanity of high and ultra high end audio’s present aspirations to cater to the top economics percentiles . sure, the ‘trickle down’ effect is in play, but ordinarily the trickle is a pretty small stream by the time you’re into the $20K and under or well under, range of todays audio gear’s retail pricing. Especially regarding speakers.
Just because a facsimile of a X over or some portion of a tweeter or other driver appears to be in the latest $10K offering is not sufficient to make a lot of folks break their hands getting their wallets out. The Personnas might just change things some on that note.
Competition is what truly makes for us as buyers, music lovers, and fine craftsmanship aficionados, more affordable means to our predisposed ends. Paradigm will not only have to be an overachiever in build quality and technology but aggressive with their marketing as well, if they expect to get the likes of Sonus faber, Wilson, Focal, and others attention that a new kid is definitely on the block and other’s need now to be wary. It seems they are definitely on the right track now to do just that.
Paradigm almost all in attack following their S line, seems the next obvious step towards being at least competitive in a new to them, arena. They’re launch of a new platform which is not beyond re-evaluation or redress in terms of upgrades, is smart and in keeping with former ventures.
In the interim, I’m gonna applaud paradigm for making this effort regarless where it winds up landing.
The only true aspiration a dedicated card carrying audiophile (nut) should pursue is attainable illusionary reality, or A.I.R., regardless the brand name or cost of the appliances as being the normal former guidelines.
Not only should audio enthusiasts carry along their Lps and CDs into the show rooms, they should spend a few bucks for a nice sleeping mask so they can’t see either. That is of course, until the audition is complete. Egos need be checked at the door. Esthetics alone simply can’t be the sole arbiter for speaker purchases. Ever. Neither should it be value. It has to be ‘attainable synergistic en masse performance. Always.
Sure, speakers have a larger esthetic impact on the home than will little boxes, but provided one finds a pleasing form and color scheme, once run in, who is seriously listening with the lights on anyhow?
I’m anxious to see how the Personna lineup fares with tube power, below the model 9. And, what or how soon Paradigm will serve up their next variation on the F series, which is also, exactly within their philosophical heritage. Hope to hear some of the F line asap. Good luck Paradigm!
For what it is worth. I had the signature s8 v2 with the signature centre and the sub2.
I have purchased the persona 7f for fronts and I have 2 sets of the 3f for sides and rears.
Lets stick to stereo for my comments here ......
I am using a Bryston bdp3 transport device with a Jeff Rowland aeris Dac into a Conrad Johnson gat1 pre amp into my audio research monoblocks to drive the 7fs.
All i I can say is that it is the best stereo setup I have heard. It ablitirates the signature series by miles. No comparison.
I finally got to hear the Personas today, at a couple of locations in Dallas. I first stopped into Stellar A/V and, although it was not a closed room and was open to the rest of the store, this was the best listening room I visited today. The other good thing was that the 3Fs were the only speakers in the room, unlike my later audition at another location. The system included a McIntosh CD player, McIntosh A/V processor, and McIntosh multi-channel amp. Balanced connections used.
I'd say the sound was pretty impressive and the 3F might be big enough for me, as I am not a super bass guy. The highs and mids were extremely detailed, and the 3Fs rendered a nice sound stage and imaging. Vocals were excellent. Despite the incredible detail and articulation of the highs, I did not note any excessive sibilance. I was quite surprised at the depth of bass produced. I mean really deep for the size of the speaker. I do think this did have something to do with the quality of the electronics. Everything was just coherent and tight.
Who knew that Nebraska Furniture Mart was a high end audio shop? Well, perhaps some of you, but I had no idea. I stopped into their Plano, TX store, and they have all sorts of high end speakers, including Personas, Revel Ultima 2, and Martin Logan ESL. Unfortunately, there is a lot of noise there and they have multiple speakers in every room. I focused on their high end room, which had the Persona 9H and Revel Ultima 2 side by side. Both sounded great, but quite different from each other. The 9H went first, and exhibited the same extreme treble and mid range clarity as I'd earlier heard from the 3F. Next up, the Revel sounded totally different, with what I guess you might call a much more laid back sound, although I could still hear plenty of detail. The music was not bass heavy, so I couldn't really make a judgement on bass quality.
Considering the price range we're looking at with Persona, I'd like to hear them again, before making any decisions. It's too bad there is now such a dearth of quality retail locations. I'm currently thinking I'll head to AXPONA in April so that I can hear more from the Persona, as well as other competitors in that price range.
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