''Óriginal parts'', ''identity '' and ''retip'' conundrum

There are many stories about hunters. This one come from my native

Serbia. Two friends are hunting not unicorns but everything in existence

which is eatable. BTW Serbians are known as very pigheaded. I left

because  one more would be unbearable One of the two pointed out

to the hill and stated: ''look there an wild goat'', The other: ''man you

must be blind, you should consult an optician. It is an an eagle !''  So

the ''arguments pro and contra'' continued till the  object  in casu'' started

to fly. ''Aha, see you an eagle''! The other: ''still an goat''. 

Some may recognise the argument by our beloved Dover: ''still rebuild''.

After 3 x in succession worn out stylus of  his  precious Dyna 17 still

rebuild while anybody can ask the question why rebuild of, say, generator,

damper, coil, joint pipe and cantilever while ONLY THE STYLUS needs

replacement???  And replacement of ''stylus only'' is called in usual

parlance RETIP. 

 

I am a Serb and I have never heard your "joke".

Your comment about Serbs may be offensive.

Rade

As a customer, the level of service accepted by an individual is their choice.

If one wants an inspection carried out of the Styli from an experienced technician that is fine, if the assessment claims the Styli is Good for a extended usage, then the customer decides how they want their Cartridge returned, in a condition that will support an extended use, or while its on the Work Bench, supply a new styli with a full life ahead of it. 

Obviously if the Styli is spent a suggestion of a further inspection of the Cartridges overall suggestion might be the inspection method proposed by the technician.

Again what ever decisions the customer is to make will be theirs only, as it is their money to be parted with.

What really matters is how much the technician knows about the Cartridge being inspected and how much the technicians assessment is trusted by the customer.

If the aim is to have a particular Cartridge produced through additional works undertaken, that will be a working model that is a accurate mimic of the supplied donor Cartridge, it seems to myself that it is quite important for the technician to be familiar with the New Version of the Donor Cartridge.

If the aim is to receive a returned Cartridge that is a functioning model with a long user life in front of it, then the workmanship of the technician, it seems to myself, that having a trust in the engineers work and selections of parts will be the important factor.

Foor the latter there are known services that can offer this with little concerns raised for the service to be received.

The former is looking most likely that the person with a full understanding of the Cartridge is a harder individual to find, especially with the knowledge of the Cartridge with a low hours nearly new model.

J Carr has made himself known as being a candidate that is with the capability to  achieve this with the Lyra Brand Products.           

mijostyn, for ''word hairspplitter' the right forum is about dictionary. There

you can find any knowledge you like.

Rade, Jokes should be not interpreted very seriously or literal.  Besides

the fact that you have never heard this joke does not mean that there is

no such joke in Serbia. I am probably much older Serbian than you are

and as such know many more jokes than you. 

Dear JCarr, As I mentioned in my answer to pindac in the context of

''rules and exceptions''  the ordinary meaning of ''generalisation'' is

''not all x are such and such because there are exceptions.. Alas

logical interpretation of quantors ''all '' and ''some'' is different:

''for all x F& Gx '' means that if there is one exception the statement is

                            not true''

While for ''some x Fx&Gx  is true if there is  at least one x which satisfy

                             conditions F&G.

Alas quantor ''most'' has no logical interpretation. So we have no other

option than use ''most'' as in ordinary language or by ''medical use''.

Say ''smoking causes in most cases cancer'' instead ''smoking causes

cancer''. I am am exception while there are people who have never

smoked and despite of this fact were killed by long cancer..

In ''your case''' Lyra is exception regarding use of styli and cantilevers

because Lyra is able to provide Ogura with boron as well order specific

styli for its cartridge. One other question is why Lyra is capable  to

provide boron to Ogura instead of ''other way round''? My guess is

because of monopoly position and the fact that sapphire is much

cheaper. If I remember well you explained to me and others cantilevers

differences years ago. Aluminium kind has the advantage that the

stylus can be pressure fitted while other have other advantages, +

that you deed not like ''the sound of sapphire''' (grin).

 

 

 

While I was fighting against the ''myth'' or ''original parts'' I am now

confronted with an compatriot from Serbia as well an Kantian of

''free will'' an ''consumer free choice'' by decisions to either use

''retip'' or ''rebuild'' or ''refreshment'' choice . Not to mention the

choice to buy, say, 18 K for an Koetsu with diamond cantilever.

Now consider my compatriot . The average income in Serbia is

500 euro. This means that there lower incomes. Well our pindac

should explain how one person with such income can pay, say , retip 

with boron cantilever and micro ridge stylus for 600 euro? Not to

mention ''rebuild'' or ''refreshment choice'' which are totally unknown

reg, the cost because even Dover refused to state what his  3 x' rebuild

cost was. So my contribution about ''meaning'' and ''reference'' was 

totally ''fruitless''. The connection with reality is totally lost. 

 

 

A Cartridge is a Product produced to be sold and is just one item available from multiple items that a individual might need to consider purchasing.

It is not a Product such as, buying or leasing a home, Gas, Electricity, Water or Food, as these are essentials and are extremely valuable to living person. When expenditure is laid out for the acquisition of these items, a fundamental requirement for the health and welfare of an individual is being met.

All purchases require an outlay of some kind, of which the majority is going to be paid for with an outlay of a currency.

The need to acquire a possession of a currency in the modern world and for the world for approx' 4000 Years, has to been for the general population to achieve a method to produce a form of currency.

For many of the population, in the so called 'good times' the currency being achieved has been of a quantity that allows for the purchase of the essentials and very little more.

Within all populations there are then individuals that have gained the capacity to have acquired much more currency than another, and use such increases in available currency, to have broader choices on how to acquire non essential items, in many cases these items might need to be produced to their specific demands.

When currency is available to an individual that enables the acquisition of non essential Items, that are for beyond the point of being required to meet an individuals basic needs, it can be suggested with a conviction that such items are able to come with a further label of being and 'absolute luxury'.

An 'absolute luxury' being something that is gained through an excessive outlay of currency and very little is acquired to enhance the individuals unadulterated essential needs. 

Hence, the Cartridge is a required tool when a acquisition is made for an individual to carry out replays of LP's, the Cartridge is one device in an assembly of devices that will be needed to make the replay of a LP be realized.

The Cartridge when purchased, is usually only the want of an individual, it is not so common for a group or family to share the interest in the acquisition. When a Cartridge is purchased at the lowest price for one that can offer a reasonable  function, especially not known to cause damage to the Hard Medium, the outlay required for certain individuals with an access to low levels of a currency only, will prove to be a substantial outlay for 'absolute luxury' that is by design a fragile device and which by design is to deteriorate to being a device that is best no longer used and taken out of service.

Cartridges are an item that are available to be acquired at a currency that can be seen to match the price of a device that many families would dream to own, and  where all members within the family would agree the benefits would be valuable to the whole. 

Items that fall into the category of 'absolute luxury' also have a 'Dark Side' the influence of the want to acquire an 'absolute luxury' can impact quite intensely on the psyche of an individual. An 'Obsessional Behaviour' is most likely at the forefront, and the Selfishness of the want of the individual will govern the decisions that are in the pipeline awaiting to be made.

The 'Obsessional Behaviour' can create a pattern of behaviour from the individual that is now perfect for their appointment to become a prey of the Market Place to be captured.

The fair lore has been granted, we will accept returns within 30 Days is usually enough for the hound to be released from the Slip. The first trick the hound will use to lure its prey in, is to guide the quarry to the Spiel from the Marketing, the hound will be intent on having the quarry, be able to recite the offerings with great accuracy, the reviews will be next, the route to these will be discovered very close to the latter end of the Spiel, such content, from such trusted reporters will be analysed and the quarries mind will slowly become totally fixated, and honed to the condition, that the quarry is oblivious to the hound gaining the position to move into the final stages of the pursuit and strike at their prey.

At this stage, it is only a few more carefully selected strides that ensnares the quarry in the bite of the Hound.

I really think, the Serbian along with any other Nationality across the Globe who has a access to little currency over a long duration, will be concerning themselves about much more important outlays for their disposable currency, such as the priorities of the essentials to be acquired with the currency.

Forums are two edge swords, and one edge does allow for an individual to express their 'Obsessional Behaviour' for the desire to own items for beyond the realms of being essential. There is regularly seen an element of elitism, and commonly seem notifications, of having been able to acquire a certain level of a device that is assembled with materials that carry the label exotic and are knwn to be aimed at a certain demographic within a population.

Boron is not so exotic any longer it is widely chosen material, it can be obtained by individuals that cross over into differing demographics. Hence, why Diamond or other Gemstones are on the table for discussion as an alternative material, these offer the perception of being a harder to realize material for the common user of a Cartridge.   

SKYANALOG Cartridges are using Boron on their cheapest models, which for many will prove to require a not too concerning amount of currency to be parted with to acquire a model which is slowly winning favour in many European LP replay systems.              

 If the reports are to be trusted, it is looking like Dyna's, Hana's and Phasemation are being replaced by the SKYANALOG Models.  

Pindac, Which theory of money do you presuppose? You are talking about

currency  ever heard about barter? 

I know the concepts of most currencies, I have a reasonable understanding of how commodities were a currency, especially amassed arable crop and how this evolved into coin through to present day, with digital currencies such as a Debit System and the New Kids on the attempting to find their way through to be recognised as a currency, such as Crypto and other Cyber commodities.

Cyber Currencies are the future, but only will happen, when the established organisations have got the methods under their control and are at a place in the Market, where there is access to huge kick backs from the transactions.

Banks under the approval oof Governments will most likely convert non bank created Cyber Currencies to their own, and the Banks own Cyber Currency and Converted Currencies will be accepted as a legal tender for every day trading.

I'm sure their are Governments quite keen to get their proportion of the uplift value of such currencies that are locked away from their scrutiny. The Banks will i'm sure be informing the authorities of all Crypto Currency Conversions, of which some will be of great interest to a Governments Internal Revenues Department.

Those who bought their 10 - 100 Crypto Coin Lots in the early introduction period around 2009/10 at approx' $7-10 per coin and have maintained their access to Secure Storage Vaults, will have a substantial pot of gold to release into the mainstream Market, even after a hefty Taxation that will most likely manifest, when the Banks are involved with exchanges.

I'm sure and predict, that this new period of a digitised currency, will see a time when certain Cartridge Models have record breaking price tags and are only offered when Cryto/Cyber Currency is the used legal tender.

Now that is one more unique experience for the small groups of aspiring elitists that are manifesting in all forums, and will again, i'm sure have its own thread on certain forums, where the difficulty to contribute due to not being able to experience the practice will be quite separating, nothing like being in the exclusivity club eh ! 

I'll get there with my usual methods, I'll sit tight and have Searches in place for a used Crypto Purchased all exclusive Cartridge in need of a repair.

If the price is fair, I'll send the acquired Cart' to a 'retip' service where the only concern is for the Cart' and if all goes swimmingly well join the exclusive thread as a impoverished contributor with a rejuvenated Crypto Cart being used, the fall out should be quite amusing.    

           

pindac, I mentioned barter as basics in the sense that countries exchange

commodities and services among each other and not money. Money

is the measure of value but not a value on its own. That is why Serbian

income is 500 euro pro months and Dutch minimal income 1200 euro.

One should look at clearance to grasp who are debtors and creditors.

BTW can you write in numbers American debts? Can you explain the

curious fact that despite all kinds of taxes all countries are in debts?

Dear Nandric,

Your joke didn't bother me at all. However, I didn't find anything funny in it.

Your comment about Serbs did. I don't know how you could have missed it, but... 

If Serbs are pigheaded and you are a Serb, then you must have a gene for pigheadedness too. 

This is my last post here so I would like to thank you for sharing all your deep thoughts and the knowledge on these forums throughout the years. Obviously, you are an expert for that and any other matter. Thank you for teaching us all including Jonathan. I am sure he can learn a lot from the wealth of knowledge about analog that you have and he doesn't.

I apologize to Jonathan for using his name without permission and everybody else for intruding into this conversation. 

All the best,

LectronJH50

 

The ''oldest paradox'' is about the Greek liear. The Greek who stated:

''all Greek are liears''. 

But you missed my point which is ''still a goat'', That is our believe in

our own ''assertions'' . Those are, say, linguistic . But identification of

objects in extra-linguistic reality is not linguistic. So ''óriginal parts'' are

not what we believe but what we can identify as such. 

This is my ''point'' regarding ''retips'' as something totally different from

''rebuild '' or ''refreshment'' by which no parts which are ''rebuild'' are

mentioned. Assumption that  every manufacturer uses his own ''unique''

styli and cantilevers is based on ''sand'' because all get the styli and

cantilevers from the same Jewel companies Ogura and Namiki. This

means that this assumption is refuted. But as was the case by ''our

Serbian joke'' the other hunter stated '''still a goat''. for the ''flying 

object''.  The people  still ask the question : ''is this cart retiped?''

and if so refuse to buy ''poor thing''. Religions work in the same way.

While I do remember many Serbian jokes I remember only two

German. The first is: ''if theory and practice coincide then both

must be false''. The second is about philosopher: ''there is nothing

more easy than to refute an philosopher. One only need to read

some other''. 

The argument  about philosopher is known in English ''vocabulary''

as ''straw man'' argument. Those are also  usual in Serbia.

 

A customer is free to make their own assessment as to how they wish to receive a product they are considering purchasing.

Considering can also require a allocation of time to be allowed for.

It can be a short duration, to confirm the intent to purchase, such as hit the Buy it Now tool with no prior inquiry, through to making inquiries to see if the item is worthy of a continued consideration.

I would consider a Cartridge if an interest was present, if it was a vintage item, offered with a proof, a complete overhaul of all critical parts in the assembly have been exchanged for equivalent parts to ensure the longevity of the function is addressed. I would not consider this Cartridge a mimic of the Manufactured Model.

A vintage Cart' with a 'retip' only, that equates to a Styli being replaced, would not be a item of attraction to myself.

A Cart' with a short period of time behind it, from when it was a New Purchase Item,  if offered with a 'retip' only, that equates to a Styli being replaced, would present itself as an Item I would consider, the more learnt from inquires made, about the 'retip' service and the Cart's previous usage, would underpin the idea the Cart' is worth considering, when the returned reports are meeting the expectations I be wanting to have for the Cart'.

In the same way a Seller can choose a Buyer if interest in a item is high, or refuse an offer from a buyer, the Buyer can refuse to continue dealing with a seller or decide to not pursue the purchase of the item any further, all seems quite fair for both parties. 

pindac, we all know the rules. By PayPal complaint  procedure

sufficient argument is that the item is not as described. As is also

known (?) that the warranty of PayPal is at the cost of seller. The

money he got is blocked till buyer report to have received the item

in good order. I am not sure if you are still ''against retips'' (grin).