WCC10 -
I didn't do balanced because my amplification doesn't support it ( I use Naim; only the $100K Statement preamp has balanced inputs). I also didn't try any SACDs because I don't have any.
I did break it in per suggestions - I had it plugged in and playing at work for 2 full weeks before playing it at home.
A used Esoteric might be a good way to go - that I can't venture an opinion on. I've at least heard a couple of the Sony and Marantz SACD players, and they seem to have a reasonably good track record with reliability (once they sorted out the early production issues).
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naimfan & 68pete;
This is great info from you both!
naimfan, did you play any SACD disks via the OPPO or just regular Redbook CDs?
I've also heard that there is a big difference between the RCA out & balanced out on OPPO 105.
I'm wondering if it might be worth looking for a decent used Esoteric SACD player?
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I have found that the XLR outs sound much better on the Oppo than the RCAs I all so found that the Oppo has a 300 hour break in before they sound better. For the money they hold their own, but not against a higher quality unit like a Esoteric disc player. The Oppo is like a Swiss army knife it does a lot fair but never master of any. Oppo customer service has all ways done right by me. |
WCC10 -
I finally broke down and tried an Oppo 105 as a CD transport. I've since returned it.
It sounded OK, but there wasn't much difference between it and an old and cheap Sony DVD player via the digital out. (The analog out on the Oppo was substantially - even hugely - better than the Sony.) The Oppo was slightly more focused and detailed, and had slightly better grip on the bass, but the differences were smaller than I expected. Was it better? Yes. Was it worth it? No. (That is purely based on using it as a CD transport - with video, even my wife saw how much better the Oppo was.)
I also compared it to my Meridian 598, which was convincingly better, as was an Exposure 3010S2. Of course, the Meridian does not have analog outs (I have the "D" version), and I don't believe the Exposure will play SACDs.
So if you want something that will play SACD, you might be better off with a Marantz or a Sony.
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@wcc10 - what preamp did you try? Did you end up getting that Krell? Or was it something else?
One you were aware of not in USA. It had issues and the way it was set up damaged one of my speakers! I don't want to go into too many details here on open forum.
Anyone had any experience with RBH
Reference Series
speakers? I can't find too much on them on Internet. |
Point of order, Ladies and Gents. Have I committed a faux pas by 'horning-in' on wcc10's thread. I new to forums and don't have all the etiquette down.
If,so; all apologies. |
Got to say though, I am finished buying electronics on eBay. Too many
unfortunate experiences like "new" components delivered with missing parts just to name one.
I am very partial to speakers with a natural finish, Cherry, etc. Well, I guess you better get out there and start auditioning. Have fun! But I wouldn't give up on eBay, totally. I got my speakers from a local guy who listed. He let me audition in my own system before I decided.
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@wcc10 - what preamp did you try? Did you end up getting that Krell? Or was it something else? |
I must say that I only listen with headphones when I am forced to or
doing some testing since I got my Canton Ergo floor standers. Ther is a
similar pair on E bay
Thanks for the input. I agree, headphones are essential for serious testing. I do (obviously) all of my listening via my speakers. I'm fortunate in that I can go pretty loud without any complaints. (mostly ;-) Got to say though, I am finished buying electronics on eBay. Too many unfortunate experiences like "new" components delivered with missing parts just to name one. I am very partial to speakers with a natural finish, Cherry, etc. My wife would never accept Black Ash or Piano Black. And I mostly agree. Otherwise the SVS towers look really good for that price! |
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"No, I do not have any headphones. But that is a good idea to try! Thanks." For $250 the NAD Viso HP50 are pretty damn good. I think they are essentially the same as the PSB M4U 1, but more comfortable. Both designed by Paul Barton. Once you try them, they may change your listening habits. If you don't want to spend that much the Sony MDS series is a good bet. If you really want to retire your speakers, look at the Oppos. I must say that I only listen with headphones when I am forced to or doing some testing since I got my Canton Ergo floor standers. Ther is a similar pair on E bay now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/152151378738?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITBut you will find no end of recommendations from the faithful here. I also liked the SVS Prime tower when I was shopping. $1,000/pr at the time. |
wcc10, I'm surprised the discussion seems to focus on the sources and
pre. Maybe the B&Ws are nor a good match for the rest of your
components and/or room. Do you have a good set of headphones? If they
solve your problem it is not the source components; maybe not the
pre-amp either.
Good point 2channel. Although the CM 5S2s put out a lot of sound for their size (I did have CM 6S2s for a while) I'm beginning to realize that this must be my next move. They sound good and more than one person has said they are OK for the size of the room. I did try another preamp that was a step up recently but didn't see enough improvement to warrant an immediate change. So I'm thinking some floor standers. See where that takes me. No, I do not have any headphones. But that is a good idea to try! Thanks. |
wcc10, I'm surprised the discussion seems to focus on the sources and pre. Maybe the B&Ws are nor a good match for the rest of your components and/or room. Do you have a good set of headphones? If they solve your problem it is not the source components; maybe not the pre-amp either. |
Leotis: "
For the price you will never find a better rig than the 103 IMHO. But the rest of the links in the chain are crucial."
Do you think the 103 sounds better than the 95 and 85SE; or is it just the value? Is there any difference in DSD to PCA for 2 channel analog? |
The $700+ price difference is more compelling in my present situation. :(
I appreciate all the support. |
So one compelling reason to get the 105... USB 2.0 music output.
You should double check, but I believe they added this feature in a firmware upgrade. The 103 does not get it though. :(
Erik
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The 980 plays HDCD and DVD-A, so I'll hang onto it for the few discs I have. It also plays anything I've loaded on a USB. I will probably experiment with running it through the Marantz. (Hey! I can do that with the NAD now! I think I have a TOS cable. Would a composite video cable work for coax?)
I'm not into FLAC yet. Is it worth it? Would something like a Dragonfly handle that? |
Just read over your original post. Please be aware that the Marantz is not a true multi-format player. It will only play CD/SACD discs. You can play limited types of audio files from a USB stick (such as WMA, MP3, WAV, AAC). It will NOT play DSD or FLAC or DVD-A. If you really want DVD-A, you'll need a bluray player. If you use a computer to play files and connect using USB, you can play more types. |
Thanks for the help x2, Aux.
I'll save for the Marantz and stop (or at least try to control my compulsions) researching and be at peace.
Jim |
Yes, Oppo 95 is better than Oppo 103. The 103 is just a new version of the 93. If you are not buying a separate DAC, the 103 is not going to do it for you. It's a great transport with somewhat decent audio (not great). There are a couple Marantz SA8005 units here on Audiogon for $800 each. I would chase after those first before trying Oppo. I don't have any experience with the EVS mods. EVS replaces the I/V and buffer op amps with a single FET, which may not have enough gain/muscle to drive a good waveform. Don't know. I researched EVS before and I would be worried about the output gain issue. The single FET idea has good points and bad points. |
Thanks, Auxinput. I know the transport of the 980 is it's weakest link, hence the urge to upgrade.
The Marantz SA 8003 got away. It went for $600. Oppo 95s are going for $800. Clearly the Marantz was a better deal. There a few older models for about the same money.
There are some Oppo 83SA or EVS mods for $475.
An Oppo 103 is going for $225 (it will go up - auction).
Is the 95 really that much better than a 103???? |
Hey 2channel - the older Oppo players were not actually good transports. The digital output on those were really bright/harsh. If you wanted to get into a stand-alone DAC, I would highly suggest a better player. Even a really cheap $100 Sony Bluray player has better digital outputs than the old Oppo. The new Oppo (103/105) have good digital outputs. You're probably better off getting an Oppo 95 or that Marantz SA 8003. I think the Marantz is going to sound better. Be aware that you're paying for 12 audio circuits on the Oppo 95, where there are only 2 audio circuits on the Marantz SA 8003. The Marantz has fully discrete audio output buffer circuits, where the Oppo uses SMD dual-channel op amps. |
What about connecting an external DAC to the Oppo DV-980-H? Does anyone have any experience with that? Are there any good ones with RCA analog out for around $400 that handle DSD? My local dealer suggested an "inexpensive" Ayre. Only $2,500!!! |
I'd like to see the discussion continue on the subject of best 2 channel SACD/CD player (with DVD-A and HDCD) bang for the buck. The OP has, I believe an SA 8005 - I've never heard of a Marantz NA 8005.
I have an Oppo DV-980-HD, which was my introduction to non-redbook. I really like the formats and am looking to upgrade as cheaply as possible. I have a middling receiver, Rotel RX-1052; but I like it with my Canton Ergo 1002DCs. The DV-980 does not play redbooks quite as well as my NAD C546BEE, IMHO.
My research strongly suggests that the Oppo BPD X5s are better for audio than their BDP X3 counterparts. I think a BDP 95 is about as rich as I could go at present. There is a Marantz SA 8003 I could get for $300 less. Better deal?
It seems used Marantz and Oppo command top dollar. Has anyone heard a Denon DVD-5900 or DVD-3910? Or an Arcam DV-135 or DV-137? |
Yes, the JC2 is above my budget. I had thought about some of the used Parasound preamps offered here on this site. Always heard good things about the brand.
I was thinking fuses for the XSP-1 but at $50.00 -$75.00 a copy I couldn't justify. Glad to now be aware of a cheaper alternative for future reference. The XSP came with 2 spare fuses that I wouldn't consider "audio grade." But then what can you expect for $900.00?
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Well, you’ll be happy to know that I think the XPA Gen 3 does not use any fuses. It looks like it uses a circuit breaker instead. I would advise you to wait until you got a new preamp before trying fuses (don’t spend any effort on the XSP). I have tested several different fuses and think that the Isoclean fuse is actually the best all around. It’s actually the cheapest, and you can get it for $32 on ebay direct from China (I’ve purchased many Isoclean from the ebay seller hongkong_basket). I have not tried the very expensive Audio Magic fuses. I’ve been participating in another thread and this guy went from the XSP-1 to a Parasound JC2 (way above your budget), and had significant improvements: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/help-choose-best-amp-preamp-combo |
Great! Good searching! I'm waiting to hear back from the seller.
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The Ebay seller is saying that the Krell RC codes are available for
programmable remotes. I would ask him -specifically- where to find
these.
Thanks for that info and for searching for Krell RC codes. I will definitely ask him where he thinks they are available. For me the remote makes a big difference but not necessarily a deal breaker. Actually, I was saying that I felt fatigued listening to the Rotel amp/preamp I auditioned a while back NOT the Emotiva. I do have upgraded power cords, speaker cables & interconnects, etc. They all did help a lot of course! I have not played with fuses yet although I am sure that they can help. I'm a little afraid to open the Emotivas up as I do not want to harm the warranty. But that could be a fairly inexpensive upgrade I will try in the future. |
Sorry, one more topic. My cousin DOES NOT have any extra 280p remotes. The HTS remotes will not work. The Ebay seller is saying that the Krell RC codes are available for programmable remotes. I would ask him -specifically- where to find these. If the battery replacement does not work, you could be out of a remote for a long time if the RC codes are not actually available. I searched and could not really find anything. |
I just read that you sometimes feel fatigued after listening to your Emotivas. I don't want to derail this topic (which is on dac/pre), but in my experience, I have found that an improvement in power cords, interconnects, speaker wire, and definitely fuses will help reduce listening fatigue. Depending on what you get, they all work towards removing the glare and mid/high-frequency harshness. These items can also help improve the resolution from your system(as some interconnects are not good enough to reveal the true resolution of the source). |
Heh, just read your posts. I did some additional research on the STP-SE. It’s amazing that people will have many opinions on "what is the best preamp". Most people don’t understand that system synergy is critical and a particular preamp may shine in one system and sound poor in another. Repeated comments on the STP-SE say that it is very transparent and act much like a passive pre. However, it also has the beefy power supply and gain circuit that is able to "push" difficult bass/midbass waveforms into the amp. This means you have a highly transparent and fast/dynamic preamp. The key word here is "transparent". The Krell, on the other hand, has 2 Class A circuits (input and output) that the audio signal will travel through. The Class A circuit will definitely color the sound somewhat, but the Krell implementation is still very fast and dynamic. Your Marantz is going to have a warm/rich sound. The Emotiva Gen 3 uses the XPR amp board which is on the smooth/refined side of sonic signature (though I don’t know how it will sound with the Gen 3 switching power supply). But it’s nowhere near the smooth/slow/lush of a tube amp. (still definitely strong solid state). The STP-SE will probably reveal the full resolution of your Marantz. On the other hand, the Krell will have a little color to the sound (could be translated into fully midrange body and bass/midbass). Since the Marantz warmth may be similar to a Class A circuit, it may be pushing too many Class A steps in the audio path for my own personal preference. However, I believe the Krell is going to be significantly better than the Emotiva in resolution, dynamics, excitement and clarity anyways. I guess it depends on what you want, and it may be impossible to know without trying. Based on what I have read, I would say that the STP-SE definitely has an edge over the Krell on speed and transparency. But like you said, it is $900 more. Wyred 4 Sound does have a 14-day trial program. The end-cost is shipping plus 5% ($100 in the STP-SE) if you return it without purchasing. |
Between the $1999.00
STP-ES preamp
and the highly recommended $1099.00
Krell KAV-280p
at this point I think I would rather save the $900.00 and go with the Krell.
I did email the guy in Canada and he assured me that since the Krell is made in USA there would be no import duties/fees. I was able to confirm this via the Internet as well.
So, it will be interesting to see how serious the seller is interested in negotiating. I'll let you know!
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I wrote this right before you posted your last entry, auxinput. Sorry I didn’t see your post first!
We may be getting too far into the tube realm and away from balanced (or at least XLR) connections. I mentioned the Audio Research LS-2 as it is considered a hybrid and maintains balanced connections. It has, as you know, been around for more than a few years but gets great reviews all around. Not sure how it would pair with my Gen 3 Emotiva power amp tough.
Yes, I was not all that impressed with the Rotel line I listened to at a local stereo store. (RC-1590 / RB-1582 MKII) I thought they sounded too sterile & fatiguing. I’m sure someone else might have an opposite experience with Rotel. But fatigued is how I feel sometimes after listening to the Emotivas.
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wow, we are going off on a tangent! lol. I would like to say that I am totally NOT a tube preamp expert. That being said, in the choices that naimfan has suggested, I would probably lean towards the AR LS-2 because of it's balanced outputs (though it is not fully balanced/differential internally). The newer CJ PV14L looks to have a much better power supply and circuit layout of the three different preamps. That being said, if I was in the market for a tube preamp, I would really look at the Balanced Audio Technology (BAT) stuff, as it has fully balanced/differential circuits (like the Krell KAV-280p and every other preamp I have suggested). There's a BAT VK-3i for $999. But I would probably be trying to push my budget to the BAT VK-31se for $1800. It has a much beefier power supply section, which translates into stronger bass/midbass punch. It also has both a remote and a phono stage (you mentioned an interest in a turntable). I would then look at trying different tubes to try to get the most resolution I could out of it. Personally, I would probably still go after the Krell KAV-280p from Canada and deal with the remote problem. It is entirely possible that it just needs a new battery. You had an interest in the AR LS-2, which is full manual control without any sort of remote, so it may not be a big deal. My cousin has a Jolida tube CD player that we have modded the heck out of (black gate capacitors, upgraded diodes, internal silver wiring, Furutech RCA connectors, Electro-Harmonix tubes). It does sound very nice, but it does not quite have the resolution of the Oppo 105 (which has an edge on excitement and snap). In my opinion, the Oppo 105 is lacking in resolution with what I am currently used to. We have found that the Electro-Harmonix tube has very good resolution. Some others have mentioned the Genelex tube being very good as well. There are many people who love tube based stuff. It is definitely a personal preference. If you have listened to tube preamps and love them, by all means go after what you love! I didn't originally put forth the idea of the STP-SE because of the price and I was thinking of your inherent budget. However, the STP-SE has a lot of great point. Fully differential, massive power supply. It looks fully discrete as well (but I can't completely confirm). The STP-SE appears to have a very fast response (high resolution), but also is able to keep a lot of "tone" characteristics. I would probably say I would highly consider this particular preamp. Between the Krell KAV-280p and this Wyred4Sound STP-SE, I'm not sure which one of these would actually be better. I'm definitely going to be reading up more on this STP-ES preamp, just out of curiousity. |
The ARC is a very good preamp. I suggested CJ based on what you wrote about finding the Rotel to be a bit sterile. There's also a CJ PV14L on Agon; along with a Classic 2 (new, from an authorized dealer); both are well worth considering.
NB - I'm not affiliated with or connected in any way to any of the sellers.
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You might also try a Conrad-Johnson PV10 or similar. Very good sounding, well-made, straightforward. From your description of Rotel the CJ could be a better way to move forward.
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My cousin had an older Classe preamp like that. I can't remember the actual model number (something like CP-35, 45, or something). It was very slow and warm compared to Krell/Bryston stuff. More like a lush warm tube type sound. I don't know about the CP-50/65. I have heard the newer Classe stuff is a lot different (like CP-700 / CP-800). |
auinput;
I wondering if you (or anyone else) has experience with Classe CP-50 or CP-65 preamps? I see some input here on Audiogon and it is favorable but I'm wondering if the CP-65 is $700 - $800 better than the CP-50? Not exactly new items but they do get good reviews even if limited. Do you think these might be preamps to consider?
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auxinput - Good info. I did some research on the Rotels before I bought the Emotiva and didn't really like what I heard. I thought it was too sterile or bright. I do like the idea of a Marantz and appreciate their sound. (mostly)
There is an "Audioholics" review of the XSP-1 that, frankly, persuaded me to buy the it. As I stated earlier I was thinking of going with a tube pre-amp. Of course I had never heard the XSP-1 before and sending it back was an option maybe I should have attempted. Live & learn! Well at least I got 1/2 of the equation right with the Gen-3! :-) Thanks for your input and I am going to keep my eyes open!
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wcc - You'll have to keep your eyes open, like you said. I don't see any other items in the price range that I could recommend, other than those two. There is a Rotel RC-1570 up for sale, but I don't know what that is going to sound like. Based on a brief look, it seems that Rotel has a similar approach to Emotiva, but they use higher quality components (such as capacitors, op amps, etc.). Hence, the price is somewhat higher as well. You can see the use of polystyrene caps in the Rotel preamp on the op amp feedback circuits (much better than the metallized caps in the Emotiva). The Rotel also has much better local power filtering on the op amps (you can see the higher number of electrolytics mounted next to the op amps) The Rotel may have better resolution than the XSP, or it may be somewhat equal). It might just be a sideways move, I cannot tell. The XSP does have one discrete circuit, but this preamp is just littered with tons of op amps all over the place. Emotiva likes to use the OPA2134 op amp, and this is the primary reason that the Emotiva dac/pre do not have the higher resolution we want. There are some Brystons for sale, but I have had lackluster results from Bryston. Either the Brystons are too bright with no body and decay, or the sound is too slow/subdued. It is all a power supply issue I believe. There is a Krell KAV-250p that may be okay, but it is not going to have the resolution of the newer KAV-280p. |
You still need a source and whatever preamp you use the 103 plays way better than anything else for the price. I use it for SACD and hi res streaming. You can download hi res onto a flash drive even and plug and play. I'm going to have a spare 103 soon and will give you a good price if you want to message me. I've already sold 3 of them to family and friends.
For all the 103s out there you don't find many on the used market for a reason. Owners can always find someone they know who wants it.
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I just got oppo 105. Using yamaha 675 receiver and rega b for 2 channel.
Will I get better multichannel audio through analogue cables vs hdmi?
also will my audio video be better connecting cable box to oppo vs Yamaha ?
appreciate any thoughts
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leotis, I was looking for a simple (& not too expensive) answer to my situation. You are correct that all links are crucial and the OPPO alone is not going to solve my issue. Too bad for me! Not sure how I am going to proceed at this point, makes a lot of sense to fool around with the pre-amp to start and go from there.
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I have a 103 running a Krell Foundation to Krell TAS to Revel F52 based surround system with JL Audio F112 sub. Using decent, non outrageous, power cords, interconnects and speaker cables. It sounds spectacular. But all the components contribute to the final result. Have ordered a ModWright Oppo 105 to replace the 103 at 8 times the cost of the 103. Won't sound 8X better however. Already have one ModWright Oppo 105 and a couple of 95s. For the price you will never find a better rig than the 103 IMHO. But the rest of the links in the chain are crucial.
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Yes "aux" that's a nice one. But I don't think I could go with that specific copy as there is some damage. Not at that price. It seems not to be a readily available item as I can't find one anywhere else right now. Will have to keep my eyes open!
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The typical price for the 280p has generally been $1200-1500. You can sometimes get the proper Krell remote on eBay for under $100. My cousin may have an extra remote that he might sell. I could ask him, although he might decide to buy that 280p off eBay as he is looking for a backup preamp. He uses the 280p. We both originally used the Krell HTS 7.1. He used the HTS as a preamp only and it blew away the Emotiva dac/pre stuff. The 280p was definitely an improvement over the HTS 7.1 (which was soft in comparison).
Be aware that you might pay extra in import duties since it is shipping from Canada.
i don't have any experience with bel canto. |
