I'd love to hear the impressions of people who've actually spent some time with these speakers to share their sense of their plusses and minuses. Mapman here on Audiogon is a big fan, and has shared lots on them, but I'm wondering who else might be familiar with them.
Frazeur1, the old board was removed with a hammer and is destroyed in the process. The new board has the driver already mounted and fits into the existing space after all the old glue/board remains are removed. I used a file to help smooth things out.
The directions talked about using wood glue and no mention was made of "hot-glue" as some have talked about on this thread.
The new cross-over was screwed into the bottom of the cabinet and can be removed if necessary as it has a contour switch on it (low/medium/high) that, I believe, affects the bass response.
As I didn't have any grills before, I don't have a reference as to whether the new grills are different than the originals due to the new drivers. They fit equally as well on both.
It is too bad that this site doesn't allow photo posting on the threads as I could show you better what I'm talking about.
I would be interested in how the old board is removed and new one installed. Curious, but as I said in my above posts, John continues to work on things and tries to make the upgrades easier to install, all the while bringing added refinement to the sound.
As to suggestions, I would say leave well enough alone, listen and enjoy your music through the Ohms. Music isn't about being an audiophile! Have fun!
Finally got the time to install the upgraded 2.2000 drivers in my Walsh 1 cabinets. The install was straight forward, but did require some finesse to install the drivers in the top of the cabinet. I'm not a wood guy so I had to pay attention to removing all the old particle board/glue residue before re-gluing the new board in place.
Once assembled and when the glue had set up, I had the chance to try the speakers out. The volume was kept at a sane level for a couple of CDs and then I started to increase the sound level.
The result was a definite increase in the bass response (expected) and a good clean, balanced sound through the range. The new drivers are smooth and consistant. The old drivers (both the OW1 and OW2) had some holes in the frequency range where the the volume fall-off was obvious.
I am aware that some time has to pass for the break-in period. My plan is to just play them without being too critical until a couple of months have passed.
As is, they are better by far than the old drivers and I am happy. I shouldn't need to do much to my current system except enjoy it for now.
To review, I'm running a B&K Reference 5 S2 preamp into a Parasound HCA1500A amp. My source is a Yamaha CD-S300 player connected by standard RCA cable to the B&K preamp. I have a set of Marrow MA1 interconnects from the preamp to the amp. The speaker connection is 14GA bare-ended standard type wire. Speaker placement is about 6' apart and a foot from the back wall.
I have no illusions about being an audiophile, I just want good sound. Any suggestions are welcome.
I guess I should mention that my above comments were how my upgrade from an OW2 to 2.2000 was(So basically same cabinet and driver size), so there may be slight differences or John has made some running improvements to this. I suppose the new cans might not even come with new baffle boards now, as it seems I have seen what looks to be slightly different configurations for the driver mounting flanges. The new can/driver might just mount by itself now to your cabinet. I will be interested to hear what all you have and what you did for this upgrade/update. Keep us posted!
t8kc, congrats on the upgrade, the install should be fairly simple. There can always be some minor setbacks, but generally John has provided everything you might need.
Not having any crossover boards to pound out makes things so much easier too, although I am not sure if you will receive a new terminal board that will replace the current one or not. Either way, it is no big deal to pop the old one out. John likes to use hot melt glue to put the new terminal board in, I tend to like to use black silicone, it is a bit easier to deal with and a nice bead of it around the inner edge where the board goes will work fine. It just takes a bit longer to cure/setup, but doesn't become brittle over time like the hot melt can.
The new terminal board will have what looks to be like the older original heavy gauge clear skinned "monster cable" connected to it, and another connector at the other end which will then plug into your new can.
The new can will be already mounted on a new "baffle" board which will then be mounted right over the existing hole where your old driver went. This board is typically screwed in with the provided 4 wood screws. It really is just a matter of getting the new board/can assembly situated squarely on the cabinet top before screwing things down.
You might also get new grilles, as the driver can is a bit bigger around and also taller. At least my OW2 to 2.2000 was this way.
At any rate, take things slowly and pre-fit things first just to make sure you know how things will go together. The only real thing to be aware of is the orientation of the driver on the cabinet, and the instructions should show what way the driver should sit so that the tweeters are in the right position. Really seeing as there isn't the typical logos on the OW1 cabinet like the other bigger brothers, not much you can really get wrong here. Obviously if something doesn't look right, fit right etc., John will help you out.
Have fun and enjoy the process! And especially enjoy the music your Ohms will give you!
I've heard it all over the years. Many speakers have their unique charms but I find none as satisfying musically overall as my big F5s. The 100s also but only in a smaller room. No tubes needed but one or two further upstream cannot hurt.
Yes, the Ohm's still continue to amaze me. I first noticed the string oscillations on the Yes song Roundabout. The acoustic guitar intro clearly showed the string oscillations and textures that seem to be hidden with other speakers
The same goes for piano. I thought the micro talls did an excellent presentation of piano. Only when the 1000's were fully broken in did I realize that they were superior to the micro talls in fleshing out the tones and textures of piano strings.
I could go on and on. If I ever get enough money, I may get a set of the 5's and better amplification and consider it my ultimate system. John has won a customer for life, and at age 63, these speakers will probably outlast me, and the thought of that makes me very happy!
disconnecting the cable wire should indicate if that is the problem. If the hum exists only with cable wire connected.
I I had this problem with Comcast specifically. I switched to Verizon which uses optical ire feeds afterwards and no more hum. But the transformer device I mentioned did solve that problem with Comcast.
No no way to know if the cable line is the problem or not with testing by disconnecting the cable feed.
Bondman, The hum I'm getting is with the TV on or off. It only went away when I disconnected the audio cables from the TV to the preamp. I ordered a TII 220 Ground Loop Isolator for the cable box connection and hope this fixes the issue.
t8kc: You may need an in-line filter for the hum. Whatever nexus your audio system has with the TV might need this. If the hum is from the TV transformer itself, not much you can do except to try some of the plug-in devices designed to quiet noisy transformers. Both my plasma TV buzz pretty loudly. I just ignore it as I am not nearly into video and film as I am into audio. When the TVs are off, there is no hum. I also get a little buzz from my FiOS box. If it bothered me a lot, I would get some of those line filters.
joefish: I have had my 2000s about as long as you have had your MWTs. I concur entirely with your thoughts. The texture and palpable aspect of instruments (including the human instrument - voice) is one of the best aspects of the Walsh design.
I happen to live about 50 miles from the Ohm factory in Brooklyn and I've dealt with JS in person - even gave him some wine as a thank you for his updating my Walsh Two's a little while back.
Absolutely one of my favorite loudspeakers and John is a true gent.
I read the article and found it interesting. John has a way with illuminating speaker aspects that are subtle. The substitution of different terms for the various frequency ranges was illustrative.
I don't understand the orthodoxy of audiopholes in regards to not using equalization or tone controls when fitting the speaker sound to the room. John gets it, but others don't seem to.
Even Jim Smith (Get Better Sound) rarely mentions changing the sound coming out of the speakers, but focuses primarily on changing the room to fit the speakers. That thinking seems backwards to me, but I'm just a lowly mechanical engineer...or am I missing something important here?
Nice recent article from JS on OHM site in his blog. It describes how to use the 4 level adjustments on each 5XXX model OHM. My F5s have these and these controls have been gold for getting things tuned in just right in my rooms. I kinda figured out their effects over time but nice to have "the man" describe the intent. A very unique feature that is pretty fundamental really. Blasphemy having "equalizer" controls on a speaker though in some parts I suppose but to me it just makes sense and in fact works.
I had similar hum when I first inserted Bel Canto C5i into my system to replace previous amplifier. Turns out source was the cable line into the cable box I had connected as audio input. Try disconnecting any coax cable signal wire input and see if it goes away. Using this resolved the problem http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002KR2RM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s...
I have a speaker hum that is really bad. After the usual disconnecting of the various components, I found it was coming from the TV. This was a huge relief because the wife had been pointing her angry finger at my newly acquired amp and pre-amp as the source of the problem!
Any ideas out there on how to deal with this issue? I will play around with the cables and power cable grounding, but I wonder what a permanent fix will look like.
Learned something the other day. I have a pair of OHM 5000's driven by a 600 watt Bryston. Sometimes I noticed my amp would clip at mid volumes. I retightened my speaker connections and placed the spades farther apart by placing one end of spade directly thought binding post hole. My amp never clips at mid volumes now. I no I blew a fuse out on my amp a while ago when speaker coonetions got too close. The OHMs need a lot of current and watts to sound their best. John from OHM recommends using bare wire with no termination. I could see that making the most secure connection. Has anyone else had experiences with loose connections? Maybe I helped someone make their speakers sound better. Mike
For the past couple of weeks, I have been re-visiting every post on Ohm speakers (including my own) on this particular thread. I started my journey with Ohm speakers in September of 2009 with the micro talls, and I was so smitten with them that I soon upgraded to the new 1000's.
I have to say that that even after 6 years of ownership that they still continue to amaze and delight me!! The 1000's seem to excel at acoustic guitar and piano reproduction. Both sound so real, and actually being able to hear clear differences in piano's is amazing. Every other speaker I've ever owned or heard made all piano sound pretty generic. The Ohm's bring out textures and tones that show the differences..The same applies to acoustic guitar. I can clearly hear string oscillations on familiar recordings that weren't apparent with other speakers or even on headphones
Other surprises include when I'm listening to FM broadcasts or a streaming site such as Pandora. Even with unfamiliar recordings, I can hear the Ohm's work their magic, throwing a a massive soundstage, giving a dimensional presentation of voices and instruments that makes them so appealing There are times when I'll hear something on the Ohms, and have to stop what I'm doing and just listen (with a big smile on my face)
I love my Ohms, and the fact that they still continue to amaze me speaks volumes As a matter of fact, I think I'll go throw on K.D. Lang's " Ingenue" and get the party started.......Ohm on, everyone!!!
That the basic Ohm-Walsh design has remained the same for decades, accounts for the stable "voice" they make.
I like the fact that the design has been refined over time, but not changed. This is called 'development'; think Volkswagen Beetle for example. Rather than being driven by maketing forces (whiz-bang selling points), the Ohm-Walsh speaker evolution is driven by engineering forces (thanks, John).
Mapman, you are correct to say that there is little interest in the greater audio comunity because this competitive business is extremely marketing-driven; the latest and greatest fads are headline material. While performance is part of that equation, it is sometimes secondary to how something looks and/or is marketed. Many consumers need to have a visual representation of how 'cool' there equipment is.
Imagine, if all audio electronic equipment was housed in non-descript black boxes with only the manufacturer's name on it; that would be a marketer's nightmare. Components would have to be sold only on their sonic merits - ouch!
Ohm-Walsh speakers are like that. With only a couple of visual face-lifts over 4 decades, this product line has been remarkably stable. The fact that the company is still in business speaks volumes (excuse the multiple puns) about the sonic quality of the speakers themselves.
I have the utmost respect for the Ohm company for staying the course in this extreme marketing-driven segment.
OHM has been sold direct to buyers only for a number of years now since the 80s. Despite being pretty unique, others in the business have little business reason to give them much if any special attention. There are not many substitutes if one likes them. The closest things are other omnis like mbl and German Physiks and a handful of other very small brands. The successful ones seem to be the ones that stake out the high end in terms of cost and quality that has a very limited market. Most people have no special interest in weird looking speakers. Despite that how many thousands of speakers has OHm likely sold since the introduction of teh Walsh line back in 1981 or so? The basic design has remained mostly unchanged, just tweaked and improved over the years.
I thought it was interesting that he didn't mention Ohm-Walsh speakers. It seemed as if he didn't consider them "audiophile" enough. That is just my opinion, of course. Also, he would have then had to make special comments about fitting them to the room and maybe he didn't think that was worth the effort considering the small population of owners. Anyway, it was still an interesting read and, there is no doubt, he knows his stuff.
It's a good resource. Jim Smith knows his stuff. I heard and bought a pair of Maggie's once from his old shop Audition in Birmingham Al. I strived to get them to sound as good at home as they did there.
Mapman: I remember your earlier post about playing the W2s outdoors.
Just to be clear, I didn’t have any issues with my speakers when using my Onyko receiver (100 wpc). It was only when I put the Parasound 1500 into the mix that the problems occurred. I will be more careful in the future.
Using my Samsung Note 5 to stream music is an option that I can look into, but the B&K tuner seems ok now that I have removed the W2s from the mix. I think I had already blown the voice coils by that time so it only appeared to be missing the bass. With the W1s installed, all is well with the tuner again.
I want to thank all the posters to this thread as I’m sure my system would be pretty pathetic without all of the input. My good choices were a result of following the suggestions found here.
When I mentioned this thread to John S., he just chuckled.
Also, any feedback on Jim Smith’s book (Get Better Sound)?
Just to correct the record, when I asked to John S. on the phone, he theorized that the damage I did to the walsh 2s was to the voil coils and not the surrounds. Even though the speakers are over 30 years old, he said that the surrounds were probably ok as they are made of cloth and are durable.
Rather than a computer for streaming music, for WAF consider a tablet with digital output to external DAC perhaps. Or I find analog sound out from my newer Iphone 6 running good quality streaming software to be very good quality these days. I use Plex to stream from my music server mostly with my systems. Plex runs on browsers, tablets, phones, and various other common platforms. Other apps that stream from internet music sources do as well.
Applying just moderate caution, I’ve used teh 500 w/ch BEl Canto ref1000m amps with all my speakers, large and small, at all volumes with no issues.
My speakers range from tiny Realistic Minumus 7s on the deck to slightly larger Triangle Titus to slightly larger Dynaudio Contour 1.3 mkII to somewhat larger OHM 100s to my big OHM F5 series 3. Sounds great with all.
The rule is to experiment with high volume gradually, especially with more dynamic recordings. You are usually good. If you hear any signs of audible distortion, then back off until the cause is clear and addressed.
500 w/ch is probably overkill for the more efficient Triangle Titus speakers, but I think the power benefits all the others to some degree as well, though I could probably get by with less.
The big OHM F5s in my larger room are teh only ones where I think I might feel I was missing something. The smaller OHM 100s could probably get by fine in most intended rooms with a good clean 80 watts or so. Once I used 180w/ch TAD Hibachi amps in place of the BCs when they were out for service. They did great with the 100s in my 12X12 office room. The big F5s in my larger listening room did very good as well but they definitely ran out of gas a tad in comparison at some of the higher listening volumes I do in there.
Remember that power demands increase exponentially with volume so having extra power in reserve when needed is always a nice insurance policy at minimum I find.
I had original Walsh 2s from 1982-2008, a long time.
Once at an outdoor party I had them cranked to max off a high quality Tandberg 80 w/ch receiver. No problems. The music sounded loud and live in the adjacent field over 50 yards away. With good quality amplification, I always considered all OHM Walshes about as indestructible as they come. They still sounded great in 2008 though I never cranked them that loud probably and age will eventually do in anything. Plus its always possible to blow up speakers if one goes to extremes too quickly or an unexpected accident happens. Caution when testing the limits is always advised. I've always found a lower power amp that clips sooner is more likely to cause speaker damage than a higher powered one that can go loud without strain. In general I think teh OHM walshes are capable of going full range louder and clearer than most any other passive speaker in their price range. So you will be in a very good place to start after the upgrade. I am very confident of that.
The tuner+remote is 100% for the WAF. I don’t think having a computer hooked up in our living room is going to pass muster.
I emailed John Strohbeen asking "how does one know if the speakers are over-driven?" and he answered this.
"The upgrade comes with a 3-Year Limited Parts & Labor warranty. If you blow them up and we consider it abuse, we will tell you; but still cover it under the warranty the first time. After that you will know how loud is too loud and we can discuss moving up to mode with a Walsh 3000 size driver. I normally only have this discussion after the damage in done; but since you did in your Walsh 2s..."
I really didn’t try to over do it with the volume control, but I like to hear the live concert-level sound. Also, some music really only sounds good when cranked-up. Additionally, I had read on this thread that the Walsh type speakers needed lots of power to sound their best. I provided the power, but...
Hopefully, I can restrain myself enough not to do more damage. The highest I went on the Parasound amp was -10db. I know this is probably a meaningless number as it is source dependent.
I am looking forward to the new drivers after reading all the positive reviews on them. I also am aware of the break-in issues so I will be patient.
t8kc: Not to worry, this is THE Ohm thread on Audiogon, and many people lurk in addition to posting. I think you've made some excellent decisions. The new 2.2000 will need a lot of break-in. Be patient, and you will be richly rewarded. John has made major improvements in the power-handling abilities of the Walsh line over the years. For a week, I had a loaner pair of 500 wpc Arion Class D amps, the sound was great, and nothing blew up or launched itself from the speaker cabinets of my Walsh 2000s. IIRC, Mapman uses 500 wpc Bel Cantos on his Ohms.
BTW, in the future, you can get local and international radio stations via the web using many different audio streamers and computers. Cheap and easy. I have a tuner in my system, but never use it any more.
Nice. Trade in is the way to go and installing drivers oneself with instruction from ohm saves money as well. Should not be hard especially if no current bottom mounted crossover board to rip out.
After talking to John Strohbeen today, I bit the bullet and ordered the 2.2000 driver upgrade. I will be sending my Walsh 2 speakers back to John for a partial trade toward the 2.2000s that will end up going into the Walsh 1 cabinets. He mentioned that it is an easier install into the Walsh 1 because you don't have to dig out the cross-overs like on the Walsh 2s.
Sounds good to me!
In a couple of weeks, I will have everything back together so I can work on comparing the IC cables. They can start their break-in in the meantime.
The Walsh 1s actually sound pretty good now that they are installed in the new system, but John said to not turn them up too loud! I really didn't think I was playing them beyond reason, but...
Do the upgrade if you can squeeze it. The drivers have improved greatly since original Walsh 2s. I know in that I had Walsh 2s for years (1981 to ~2008) and kept them to compare a/b to my current 100s3s before keeping the 100s.
Thanks mapman, but I will have to wait on the IC comparison as I recently blew out the 30 year old surrounds on my Walsh 2s. This explains why I was losing the bass. The Parasound power amp did the deed. I sent an email to John Strobeen to see what route I should take (repair or upgrade). In the meantime, I plan to install a set of Walsh 1s as a stop gap measure until the issue is resolved. Any comments on the repair vs, upgrade question?
IC between amp and pre-amp will affect all sources, not just CD. You need to try both and decide which option works best for all the sources you care about. If just CD, it may not matter much but no way to know for sure with out trying both listening and deciding yourself.
Yes, thanks Frazeur1. I wanted to get the system to a certain point and then go slow.
On my B&K preamp/tuner my only comment is that the tuner part doesn't seem to be very good (no bass), but otherwise it is fine.
I did buy a pair (one set) of Morrow Audio MA1 interconnects and I wasn't sure if they would be more effective between the preamp and the power amp or between the CD player and the preamp.
Tate, never fear, someone will be along on this thread at some point! Seems like it goes through little spells of activity, but eventually as Mapman did, somebody will catch up to things sooner or later.
Glad the Ohms are doing their thing as well as your gear. Enjoy your music and don't get in too big of a hurry to change anything. It will all get there at some point!
I really am talking to myself so I don't need to be shy.
The preamp/tuner and power amp were integrated into my system and the Onyko got relegated to garage duty.
At first, I wasn't sure if I had made the right decision in jettisoning the old Onyko receiver. I realized that some adjustments might be necessary to get the new components and the room tuned in.
The bass response was good so I kicked the treble up slightly to better match what I had the old receiver set to and, voila, the sound was starting get there.
While I was expecting a big difference in the sound, the reality was measured in more subtle layers. The bass was stronger and better defined and I didn't need as much volume to hear the details. My wife wasn't complaining to me about the SPL.
This last point is important because I want her to be able to share some of the music with me. Before, it wasn't happening at the levels I needed.
I have reviewed some of my CDs on the new set-up and I'm hearing details and a general openess that wasn't there before. Also, the congestion at higher volume levels is gone.
My original goal, 3 months ago, was to get closer to a reference system I had heard while on vacation. Now, I can say I'm about 90% there.
I still have some cable tuning to do and, eventually, an Ohm speaker upgrade to 2.2000. I might change the listening area some if I can get the WAF high enough.
My current modest system is partially the result of reading this Ohm discussion and components purchased on this site. I can say that I am very satisfied with the result considering the amount of money spent (about $1,500 so far). Buying used components made it financially possible to do for me. Additionally, I don't have to do any major break-in proceedures; someone has done it already!
I have just finished reading this thread from start to finish. It took me a couple of weeks to wade through it. In some ways, it has been a fascinating read punctuated by the original poster selling his Ohms. I have to admit being disappointed about that event, but was pleased that the thread continued on.
I own 2 sets of early Ohm-Walsh speakers, a set of Walsh 1s and Walsh 2s. I paid less than $200 for each set so I wasn't gambling much.
My original interest in Ohms was sparked by reading a review of some amplifier whose name escapes me at the moment, but the Ohm speakers were mentioned. I believe the review was in a San Francisco based paper. Being a curious type, I did some internet searching and came upon the Ohm website. The technical aspect of the Walsh design was fascinating to me (I'm an engineer) so I looked around locally (SoCal) and found my speakers.
The Walsh 1s were good, but I hadn't bought a new CD player yet. That only happened after the Walsh 2s showed up. There was a noticeable difference between the two models. Let's just say the Walsh 2s are still listened to and the Walsh 1s are in the garage waiting for the 2.2000 upgrade when the budget allows.
Reading this thread has prompted me to buy a used Parasound 1500A amp. It hasn't been set up yet because there doesn't seem to be a way to connect it to my current A/V receiver (Onyko HT-R430). It has the normal line-level outs (tape, etc.), but no pre-amp out.
I know, I know; buy a pre-amp. I get that, but in order to have a decent WAF, I have maintain an FM tuner and a remote. This makes things more complicated and, hence, more expensive I'm sure.
Any ideas out there?
BTW, I'm reading Jim Smith's book 'Get Better Sound'. Any comments on that?
Congratulations on the purchase, mas426. I am sure you will enjoy them. Just let them break in. I have heard Joseph Audio speakers many times at shows, and always enjoyed them, but you don't get much Joseph Audio for a grand! If you haven't heard Ohms in 35 years, you may be in for a pleasant surprise.
Ok so after about 5 hours of digesting this thread, I pulled the trigger on some Ohm Micro Walsh Tall SE's last nite. Please note, Ohm is having a Black Friday holiday special and the last day is TODAY! I picked a pair up in Rosewood for $955 plus $55 shipping. Loved this thread, I did have a pair of Ohm D2's in the late seventies, they were my dorm room speakers. I have had some great speakers since, mostly from Joseph Audio, but looking forward to getting these little Ohms. I really remember my D2's and this is a little nostalgic as well as getting the most speaker for the cash. Thanks to all who posted.
Not much to add to this thread other than these are truly non fatiguing speakers. Just got done with another multi-hour streaming listening set. Source: 10 year owner of microtalls currently paired with a modest peachtree amp.
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