Nandric, Are the moderators THAT prudish? Shame on them.
Halcro, Good on you that you did not agree with Ct to use compliant footers. We are not so far apart in our thinking.
I discussed with Bill Thalmann your finding that the cage is ferrous and therefore attracted by a magnet. Bill agreed with me that it must be meant as an EMI/RFI shield to protect the outside world from RFI generated from the TT101. (The quartz crystal oscillator is a prime source of RFI. Maybe that's why the clock oscillator is also tucked up into the upper metal structure, away from the rest of the circuitry.) As to the fact that you've observed an effect of the motor on your new steel plinth, I would submit that the ferrous outer cage would also soak up the magnetic lines of force from the motor and also protect the outside world from the magnetics. (But I find it odd that the magnetic effect would be so strong, maybe from the transformer, in some way?) Grounding the cage provides a way to drain RFI to ground, as well as electrical grounding. If you don't ground it, it cannot work so well as a shield. |
Halcro, on the backside I have a slot routered out for ventilation and a IEC receptacle for convenience.
Looking at a couple more weeks. Have to make top plates and drill and tap a bunch of holes for footers, top plate. Also waiting for another MA505 to be delivered.
The plinth is a CLD design I have used with good results with other tables. The ringing round metal shield I always thought was a weak link so it isn't being used. I had concerns about RFI so its good to hear you haven't experienced any.
Pods are bronze cored or hollowbar with a 2.5" ID. Less machine work involved. There not as heavy as I would like but should get the job done.
Plans down the road is to try nude and build another similar plinth with cantilevered armbords that will look similar to the Project RPM.
Deck is a 71. Built plinth to accommodate a 81 or 101 if I ever find one to my liking, don't really want a 81. Just got tired of waiting so went with the 71 so I would be ready when the time comes.
Good to hear your satisfaction, table looks wicked. |
believe me, Halcro, the second I read your report I planned on taking off the casing just to see whether there's the difference you assert. It will happen soon, but I just got a new cart and want to play with it first.
fyi: my tt also sometimes (but not often) starts at 33.32 or 33.34 before reaching 33.33. I had always thought it was because I clean dust off the record when I put it on and thus exert some modicum of pressure, but perhaps the real explanation is as you suggest. Also, my tt has never fluctuated in speed during play so perhaps your observations are not due to the casing? |
My post is declined as 'inappriate or inflamatory' probaly because I used the expressions 'hooker','prostitute' and 'whore' in the context of the logic of substitution. Substitution and quantification are interdependant so by way of introduction I mentioned 'Vienna', 'Wenen' (Dutch), Bec (Serbo Kroatian) and 'Wien' (German). The logical rule
is this: whatever is true about the object refered to will stay true under substitution of names with the same reference. I called those co-refering names. Now my point was that Lew is wrong with his assumption regarding the expression 'hooker'. One may dispute the 'meaning' of those expressions but they all refer to the same, uh, profession. It is obvious that different languges have different expression for the same profession but it is also obvious that they can be substituted for each other such that the sentence in which they occur has the same sense and/or reference. The reference of an statement being arguable the truth value of the sentence. The other theory imply reference (of a statement) to something called 'fact'. Now one can feel insulted if called 'prostitute' but what can be
the 'sin'of an word or an expression? The moderators obviously discrimante between 'neat words' and, say,'filthy kinds' but which linguist would make such an division? The other members also used the word 'hooker' so I assume that either 'prostitute' or 'whore' are the quilty one according to our moderators.
BTW the same argument apply for 'nude' versus 'naked'; both refer to ,uh, the same thing.
|
Lewm,
the Emt has no suspension between motor and idler drive, only short isolation bushes.....then supported by a suspension frame (!) but that is another matter! |
Hey Banquo,
With your Victor supported on Chris' 3 stainless tube spikes sitting under the top surround of the turntable.......you could quite easily remove the outer steel perforated cover and hear the difference?
Trust me on this one........... |
but is that an old Canadian penny shimming the left armpod ? :^) Sorry Chris.....it's an Aussie 5 cent piece :-) I agree with your dedicated shelf recommendation. Just can't do it old boy.....don't have a basement listening room (or three)....like you have? :-) Don't agree with your compliant footers however. Turntables must not move in my Copernican Universe........ |
I grabbed the slotted metal surround screen and held a magnet against it
..
This screen was magnetic steel! Strange for a TT that is marketed with the word laboratory ? Just kidding Henry cool looking project. Looks like you are having a lot of fun. I like Banquos use of the word steampunk aesthetic which if what we were looking at was all analog stuff would work for me. I have stared at too many digital circuit boards so I would be inclined to want to keep it under covers myself. From what I have heard about parts availability for that JVC I would want to prevent a setup that could cause an accident pulling of some wire ? My recommendation holds to put the table and the armpods on a dedicated shelf supported by decouplers the AT616s come to mind. Even though you are on the wall already..... Now I realize you are in beta trial mode and the setup is being tweaked but is that an old Canadian penny shimming the left armpod ? :^) Cheers |
The magnetic field being produced by the transformer and power supply (even with power switch of the platter not activated).....is so great that it has managed to induce a magnetic attraction in the 316 stainless steel flat bars of the cradle.
316 stainless steel is NON magnetic!!
With the original mild steel perforated cover surrounding this magnetic field completely......I cannot imagine it being a GOOD thing?
Why did the Victor engineers not think so? |
Lewm,
Did you not remember my 'incident' when I had the ground cable connected to one of the Halcro amps (as it wasn't long enough to reach the preamp?
After placing the Victor on the copper Fidelity Research Cu-180 platter mat to test 'isolation'.......when I turned on the power....I blew up the Halcro phono stage and also the Dyna XV-1s cartridge which was connected at the time.
A very expensive exercise.....
Since then I have not had the ground wire connected (my previous TT-81 did not even have one)......and all three arms use fully balanced XLR interconnects. |
Nice work Ecir,
You're close to being a fully-fledged member of the 'Copernican Club'?
What material is that surrounding your Victor (is it a TT-71 or 81?)?.
It's really neat....but how do you manage with ventilation?
And those arm-pods are impressive.
Are they bronze?
How long till you're able to 'play'? |
Thanks Ecir, The spikes were bought first from England and were given to the fabrication shop to custom drill and tap the legs to fit with no free play at all . They are made of the same 316 stainless steel as the cradle and come with washers and lock-nuts.....but as the rear spikes are screwed into the legs almost entirely....there is no threaded spike protruding to attach any nuts. But as I have to slide my hand under and between the arm-pods to reach the spikes to level them....any nuts would be a hellish complication :-) |
Dear Nikola, Big spikes are necessary to counter the large deflection of my cantilevered shelf :-) |
Tim, Being a Connecticutian (a term of my own concoction) by birth and still a Connecticut Yankee at heart, I know Willimantic quite well. A prostitute could starve there, unless she also liked to babysit or cut grass.
As it turns out, I am wrong about the association between the word "hooker" and General Fighting Joe Hooker, even though he was notorious for his patronizing of prostitutes. Seems the slang may pre-date the civil war, back to the early 19th century New York or even to England in the 1500s. No one knows for sure.
Halcro, Could you be induced to make me one of those? How much does it weigh? I ask because if I were to modify your design in any way it would only be to maybe add another "ring" so as to enhance mass.
Now, as to the ferrous nature of the outer cage, that is interesting and it suggests to me either that Victor chose it as a matter of convenience or that it was indeed chosen for its shielding effect. Yes, I would like to know Al's opinion also, but being ferrous it would be a shield of sorts. Note that in the owners manual also they make a big point of connecting that ground lug on the outer cage to audio system ground. That WOULD be essential if it is functional as an RFI or EMI shield. How are you grounding the TT101 with no cage? With my balanced Atma-sphere phono stage, tt grounds have always been irrelevant. With my single-ended outboard phono, grounding is critical. |
if they aren't tight, sorry |
Nice job Halcro. How tight are the threads on those spikes? My experience thinks you need a jam nut and they aren't tight.
A couple of pics first implementation of soon to joining the TT club.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h69/ecir38/Arm%20Pod/TT71/2.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h69/ecir38/Arm%20Pod/TT71/1.jpg |
Lew, I have no idea if your story is "urban legend" or the real thing, but it was entertaining.
Many years ago I helped a friend and his wife move to Connecticut for grad school at UConn. Driving through Willimantic I was amused to find the Hotel Hooker in the middle of their old downtown. From Wikipedia: "In addition, The Hotel Hooker, once infested with drugs and prostitutes, has been repurposed as a transitional living facility called the Seth Chauncy Hotel."
Aptly named it would seem. |
I think the word "hooker" comes from the USA. During the Civil War era, (1860s) there were prostitutes that followed the army of General Hooker, an officer of the Northern cause. Somehow, these ladies came to be known as hookers. I wonder whether General Hooker was ever aware of how his name lives on and why. Thus, if the Arabic countries use the word "hooker", I would be surprised and a little sad.
Halcro, I do not think you would hear any noise from the tt due to the lack OR the presence of an RFI shield. If the outer cage is a shield, it may as well be shielding the neighboring equipment from RFI emanating from the TT101 as vice-versa. RFI going in to the TT electronics from an external source might hypothetically affect function, but there would be no noise per se. I really doubt there is anything to worry about. By the way, based on my sample, dust gets in through the slits in the outer cage anyway; dust accumulation may not be any worse without it.
On the issue of rubber or similar isolators, John Nantais, a well known builder mainly of plinths for Lenco, also eschews the use of any such devices and for the reasons I gave above. On the other hand, he is building huge complex plinths specifically to enhance the performance of an idler, which has problems different to those of a DD table. And your "plinth" is minimalist and for a DD that has especially low amounts of motor energy that needs to be dissipated.
The EMT927 has a huge motor, a heavy platter with a high moment of inertia, and a built-in suspension. How does that work? Is the suspension built so as to resist twisting in the horizontal plane? |
I didnt think I would be writing this review
. Correction
..I didnt think I would be writing this review with the following results and conclusions? In fact its hard to tear myself away from the music to devote the time to write this review
.. When I designed the stainless steel cradle for the TT-101 DD turntable
..I never imagined that I would remove the surrounding slotted screen? Nor did I imagine I would be hearing much difference from the set-up I had been playing over the last 2-3 years? After all
.I was simply changing the turntable supporting feet from under the screen, to directly under the top plate which is effectively how all these models of DD turntables were designed to be supported in solid plinths. I expected to be rather reserved (if not disappointed) in the changes (if any) I would hear? And perhaps thats the way it would have played out had I not been forced to remove the outer slotted screen because I had miscalculated by 2 mm the size of the circular cut-out I had designed. Listening to the new set-up
there was instantly an audible change which confused me somewhat as I couldnt quite ascertain exactly what it was? The more I listened
.changing back and forth between 3 different arms and cartridges
the more excited I became. Firstly the silence! Now the TT-101 was always quiet
.at least as quiet as the Raven AC-2
but this new background silence was quite unnerving. There was a depth to this silence (if that makes any sense?)
.and through the depth, the newly heard projected voices and instruments had body and tangibility. Secondly the purity! At every stage of my audio upgrade path
.from the Halcro electronics to the Dueland speaker capacitors to the fully differentially balanced amplification operation
..there resulted a greater degree of purity
.probably best described as a lowering of distortions? This new set-up lifted the purity to another level. But the combination of these two improvements rendered a musical presentation so engrossing, so addictive, so transformative
.that I broke open the Blue Label and danced a jig. But how did this happen? What really changed? The sonic results I could not reconcile with simply a support change? And then it struck me! I grabbed the slotted metal surround screen and held a magnet against it
.. This screen was magnetic steel! Now Im not au fait with electro-magnetic theory and practice
but I do know that electrical current, transformers, power supplies and coils can produce magnetism and here was a steel enclosure surrounding this potential magnetism? If there is indeed a magnetic field being created amongst which are placed hundreds of transistors, resistors, capacitors and copper wiring
..it seems a potential for harm? Almarg
..where are you? Since I have had my TT-101
..on start-up, very often
.the speed readout goes to 33.32 rpm before stabilising at 33.33 rpm after a few seconds. I thought this was normal operation? Sometimes whilst listening to records
..the sound would wow and I would jump up to see the speed read-out at 33.29 rpm or 33.32 rpm before once again stabilising. Now on start-up
..33.33 rpm is hit straight off and there hasnt been any speed fluctuations so far. So my advice to all those with a DD turntable possessing a steel surround
..is please remove it and listen for the differences. You may well be surprised and delighted? |
Well one can dispute the difference between 'nacked' and 'nude' as any (?) semantic question..endless. To my mind however it is a cultural question. In some Arabic countries even a 'bare foot' is considerd as 'nudity' and if the owner of the foot is a women she will be called a hooker. Some other countries have something against the 'bare knees', etc. I am surprised to see that Assies have such a limited opinion of what an plinth in general should be and which TT's should be considered as 'nacked' and which as 'nude'. Regarding our own Aussie Lew already stated that the pretended 'nudity' should be dismised because there is a plinth according to him. I even see two of those steel rings (aka plinths)connected to each other with the biggest spiks I have ever seen in my life. But, as already mentioned, the question is a cultural one while nobody knows, nor can know, where all those Assies come from and with which culture behind them.
|
I only suggest it would be interesting to listen to Halcro's TT101 with vs without the rubber isolators (or whatever they may be made of). Of course, Halcro has to do the dirty work, so it is easy for me to suggest it from 10,000 miles away.
And the reason I bring it up is that Garrard guys remove the stock rubber surround between the 301 chassis and its plinth, whatever the plinth material. They say that the insertion of the rubber between the chassis and the plinth impedes the capacity of the plinth to soak up motor vibrations, and indeed it makes a lot of sense that that would be so. In a DD, any tendency for servo action to cause relative motion of the chassis vs the platter must be countered, so the same principle applies.
Gosh, the TT101 is quite smooth and quiet. Just looking at it in operation, it HAS to sound great. Love those coreless motors. |
Dear Lewm. That's a similar advise I gave to you time ago for your DP-80, remember?
I did it for my Denons DP-75/80, differences with the pictured ones were:
instead of metal " plinth " I used a 40Kg base of green marble and the other in beige Onyx ( both beautifull stones. ).The stone bases were seated on the pneumatic AT-616 and the stone base was used as tonearm board too ( no stand alone arm bases. ).
Now the Denon's were seated, through the TT top ring, in three very small delrin tip-toes like a top the stone bases.
IMHO damping is very important for this kind of set up and that's why I don't use it metal tip toes but delrin ones and pneumatic footers that were the set up foundation.
Works and looks amazing!
Maybe in the future I can try again because I have the marble/onyx bases, beautiful ones.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
Dear Thuchan, What about a silver metal surrounding with nice looking slits for the ventilation, like in a helmet (many small slits)? This is not the look that I'm after. A silver metal surround would hide the elegant stainless steel cradle which I have had built at some cost. It would also dominate the turntable 'bulk' which is quite the opposite of what I now have? If I really wanted to have a silver 'screen'.....I could just have had the black cage sprayed silver? :-) |
Lewm,
Yes....a valid point about RFI shielding?
I'm lucky my Victor is far from most of my electronics.....and I hear no hum or noise of any sort.
In fact it seems perhaps slightly quieter than with the 'cage'? |
Dear Halcro,
just had an idea. pls tell me if it is not working! What about a silver metal surrounding with nice looking slits for the ventilation, like in a helmet (many small slits)? |
Dear Halcro,
yes I have the same duty as you taking care of the dust in between the suspension frame and the R 80 parts. I now saw the three rubber parts you are using. The R 80 suspension frame uses 4 springs at the corners. The table is put on a nonstop hard rubber band. of course the weight is a different one.
your construction looks very elegant.
pls. tell me what other mods you are planning.
eckart |
Halcro, Yes, that is a plinth. I like the idea of removing the chassis cover below. It looks cool, too. I think this set-up, along with your extraordinary tonearm pods, has the Lew seal of approval all the way. (Your pods are so solid and heavy that I won't carp about them, especially since the materials of the new plinth are similar to the materials of the arm pods.) I've been thinking about something exactly like what you have, EXCEPT I would have a firm linkage from arm pod to main plinth structure, and the arm pod(s) would therefore not have to make contact with the shelf.
I acquired some very heavy thick elastic bands which I was going to use to damp vibrations of the chassis cage that you've entirely removed. The only issue you may encounter might possibly be that the cage shields against RF.
May I suggest that you listen with and then without those rubber isolating grommets? I would be very interested to know what that does.
My TT101 has had a frustrating history. It had to go back to Bill Thalmann twice since the original re-cap was done. There is nothing wrong with any of the ICs, but Bill finally figured out that several of the PCB tracings and a few connectors had developed cracks causing intermittent short circuits, which led to crazy behavior of the mechanism. (It would work properly at Bill's shop for days. Then because the drive to my house is over bumpy roads, I guess, it would do nutty things in my house.) I've now got it home finally and all is well, after Bill sniffed out the problem areas. I do have a bunch of clock chips for anyone who has a Victor TT with a bum clock (Part #SC3042, made by NPC). (The same chip would work for TT81 and 101 and possibly for 71.) Mine never needed it. Contact me privately. They are cheap. |
Oh Thuchan,
I was inspired a bit by your EMT 927 aesthetics.....whereby the table sits on an exposed tubular metal frame and all the guts are visible hanging below?
Do you get dust in the working parts? |
Dear Thuchan,
You can see 3 rubber grommets on the photo with just the metal frame?
The TT-101 sits only on these so there is no metal to metal contact.
Yes.....I'm thinking of possible dust on the electronics......but the original metal casing had many slots in the sides and bottom which could also allow dust to be drawn in......yet the electronics appear remarkably clean after 30+ years?
I have a soft feather duster that I can use and also a hair dryer (on cold) to blow any dust away?
We shall see if it is a problem?
Anything like Japanese paper or glass or plastic would not allow the ventilation required.......
Regards
Henry |
Thanks Banquo,
Will report in due course.
It takes many records, arms and cartridges.....not to mention different listening sessions......to be convinced of what one is hearing?
Regards
Henry |
wow Halcro, you really did it! the naked guy - a very courageous approach. How did you put the table on the frame - any rubber or softening parts in between?
what do you think about a Japanese paper wall around the skeleton, still looking through but no dust entering the electronics? |
the exposed guts and criss crossing of various metals evokes a steampunk aesthetic for me. very cool Halcro. Looking forward to your impressions of the sound. |
Naked.....not 'nude'! 5 months after mentioning my idea to Banquo.....about designing a 'cradle' out of stainless steel flats to 'drop' the TT-101 into......I finally got off my bum and did it. Designing is one thing......but drawing it and then finding people to quote and then waiting for the thing to be built....is quite another :-( The cradle is made from 4mm engineering Grade 316 stainless steel all laser cut and welded. I had thought to simply drop the whole TT in together with its flimsy black steel bottom perforated cover......but then I thought......why not go fully naked and avoid any possible resonances related to the cover panel? The result will not be to everyone's taste.....but to me it's more in line with my thoughts on the Copernican view of turntables whereby the tonearm pods are now correctly visually dominant surrounding the skeletal structure of the turntable. I suspect that someone like Lewm will find some way to interpret this 'cradle' as some kind of 'plinth'.......but what can I do? :-) How does it sound? A bit too early to file a report......but it is audibly changed. For the better of worse?.........stay tuned..... |
Banquo, to handle the tt I remove the platter and turn it upside down on a large flat bowl that is covered with a dish towel. The washers are about 5/8" in diameter and 3/32" thick. They will raise your platter a tad by raising the entire motor. That gives you more leeway as to how tight that bearing thrust plate screw must be. Not tightening it too much is rather critical for clearance as well as proper alignment of the motor components.
Lewm, the 1/16" neoprene bonded to 1/32" steel do not make for a spongy mount especially if they are torqued down. Your point is quite valid but my ears tell me this is better. Psychoacoustics no doubt but c'est la vie. Anyway the washers that JVC used, being two metals and thin are a pain in the ass. As Banquo found out (and I did too) they tend to get lost in the machine.
Gary |
Dear Aigenga, Your listening is the final arbiter of whether any change is a good one, but I would only observe that by using a "spongy" washer where once was a solid washer, you have to some degree decoupled the motor from the rest of the chassis elements. This obviously can be a good thing. But it can also be a bad thing, because now the motor/bearing/platter as a unit are more free to move when the motor is called upon to increase torque in response to drag on the platter. Remember Newton's Laws of Motion: every action has an equal and opposite reaction. When the motor urges the platter in the clockwise direction, the motor itself has a tendency to move counter-clockwise. Plus, the Victor engineers had the option to anchor the motor assembly in any feasible way, and they chose what they chose. Just a thought.
Irrelevant if you are pleased with your modification. |
Dear Banquo363/Halcro: That's exactly what I did several years ago with my Denon's, I posted here and in the past in other threads.
Difference was that I used natural marble and natural onyx stones ( beautiful look for say the least. ) all that supported for the AT 616 pneumatic footers. I still have those stone bases but are so big that I have no space to use it again with my Victor 71/Denon 80/75. Yes, it works fine.
When I have some time I will test it again against the nude one in real time.
Regards and enjoy the music,
R. |
Yes Banquo....it does indeed look my idea and I'm pleased someone did it.
I need to get around to doing something myself....but my friendly metal-shop man has retired and I'm a bit loathe to 'tender' out the fabrication to some unknown operators?
By the looks of things.....there appears to be a growing 'band' of 'nuded' Victor TT owners out there?
It must sound good for this scale of 'adoption' :-)
When you have time.....I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the differences between the TT-101 and the Technics SP10/II?
Of course.....if the music is great.....you may not want to waste your time writing instead of listening?
Enjoy. |
Thanks, Aigenga.
I have EAR Isodamp (a 3m product) sheets on the way and I'll be following your lead.
I know about those motor washers because one of them evidently 'escaped' and ended up stuck to the rotor, thus causing one of the problems with my turntable. I'm game to try these steel/neoprene washers. Where does one get these things?
Regarding the bearing: how did you support the table while accessing the bearing? My platter was riding low so I had to adjust that big screw, but I had a devil of a time handling the turntable with screwdriver in hand. I can't imagine trying to clean the bearing and changing the oil w/o an extra pair of hands. |
Banquo,
I have the sheet under the platter as Halcro described. I also covered the entire interior of the chassis with the 3m product as I described along with the underside of the rim (which is how I describe the silver ring that the controls are on), and of course 80% of the tin can at the bottom. I couldn't be happier with that work.
Another thing that I did more recently is to put steel/neoprene washers between the motor and the chassis. I realized that the chassis is actually a plinth of sorts as the motor and bearing are self-contained and supported by the chassis. So the table isn't really nude after all.
The new washers replace a double layer of steel and copper washers that were there. Most TT motors that reside inside a plinth (both idlers and belts) are shock mounted, now mine is too. If anyone wants instructions on how to do this, let me know. Highly recommended.
As for your open bearing area, no big deal - I recently reopened mine to measure the ball bearing so I can replace it with a ceramic ball (it is 4mm - considerably smaller than I remembered). I refilled it with Mobil One. I don't think it matters which synthetic oil you chose - any good one will run in a car engine for 10 - 15,000 miles without breaking down so a turntable won't ever effect it.
My TT-101 is running better than ever. Starts right up from a long hiatus. Don't ask me why. Makes me smile. |
Halcro: you wrote, It is now possible for me to design a circular aluminium frame cut and welded out of 10mm thick flats into which I can just 'drop' the Victor. I think this guy 'stole' your idea. Looks very cool. |
I was wondering how the sheet was placed. So, it's glued. Thanks, Halcro! |
Hi Banquo, My TT-101 appears to be original and untampered with? HEREis a photo of the rubber sheet (part 45) glued to the underside of the platter. It appears to be approx. 1mm thick? Regards |
Dear victor tt 101 owners:
Mine is currently at a shop and I'd like to return the table to its original condition, but unfortunately previous owners seemed to have messed with it. In particular,
1: the bearing seal has been opened even though the manual asserts that it does not require lubrication. Since it has been compromised already, I'm looking to see what kind of lubrication I should use. Evidently, there is a distinction between grease and oil. Should I care? The guy who runs the kenwood l07d site says the best oil for that table is Redline pure synthetic 20 weight racing oil. Anyone care to offer an opinion on this? I literally don't know a single thing about this matter. I see, Aigenga, that you have opened up the bearing casing and used Mobil 1. Was there a reason for that choice?
2. In the service manual, it shows a round 'rubber sheet' (part 45_ that sits below the platter (surrounding the motor casing). Does everyone have that piece? Mine doesn't. If yours has it, can you do me a favor and measure the thickness. I'll try to rig something. Aigenga: you note above that you cut some 3m material to place under the platter (you linked to a pic of it). Did you replace the stock rubber sheet with the 3m?
thanks. |
I don't believe your concerns about a 'floating' armpod are warranted? Hi Henry I have had this armpod for quite a while now. I am not concerned about floating. It hasnt moved. This has to do with resonance and vibrations. I will change their patterns if I change to a rigid directly coupled armpod. I want to hear this change. My SP10MKII is my PET project. Its role in my setup is all about learning from it. This cannot stop. Its the perfect candidate with the motor, bearing, spindle, platter so close to one another to learn more about resonances. My DD setup is very flexible by design, so I can experiment with little effort really. I have a spare set of SS legs from version 3 with the points the machinist will cut these and put threads in for me. The armpod has three threads for spiking or bolting. The bolts would come through the base (plinth) up into the armpod. No big deal. I want to see if I hear any differences. If I dont like it, the armpod can be converted to free standing anytime its reversible. No Risk , Nothing ventured, Nothing gained. Fwiw - I have probably hit the limits with the SP10MKII and that is ok too. To me like I say in Goldilocks and the three turntables on my system page. The SP10MKII sounds like it is just trying too hard to be accurate. I think it needs a little LESS CORRECTION if possible, and still be able to maintain STABILITY to make it better. Its a balance. Right now the correction piece is the Alpha. So if I have hit the limits with it. I am ok with that. Maybe one day I will pull off the cover underneath and have a look to see what can be done to better isolate what is in there. For what the setup cost $1500 - not including tonearm. I dont think it can be beat in that price range. What does $1500 buy you today. BTW I recommend still that you isolate your victor and the armpods on a separate shelf. There will be a definite audible change. Easy enough to experiment with a piece of material and three or four footers. Seeing that many audiophiles staunchly advocate the superiority of the big Micros over many SOTA new decks Henry - Not familiar with the Micros - but I can tell you my Verdier raised the bar high really high. Every day it amazes me more and more because I learn how to set it up better. I think this design has been around for a while too? Cheers |
Hi Chris,
As always....I appreciate your response.
I'm happy indeed if I helped in some small way for you to enjoy your wonderful system even more?
I think your 19 lb arm-pod is both heavy and stable enough?
What most people will surprised to learn is that the deflection (and movement) of the cantilevered outboard arm-boards of the big Micro turntables and the Raven AC.....is a magnitude greater than any differential movement in a reasonably thick common shelf on which a separate deck and arm-pods may be mounted.
This can easily be demonstrated mathematically via structural analysis.
Seeing that many audiophiles staunchly advocate the superiority of the big Micros over many SOTA new decks........I don't believe your concerns about a 'floating' armpod are warranted? :-)
Regards
Henry |
Thanks Lawrence,
I appreciate your feedback.
I certainly agree with you....especially in the case of analogue.......that the great turntables, tonearms and cartridges of the Golden Age of Vinyl (60s, 70s and 80s)....more than hold their own against the 'cost-no-object' modern versions.
Imagine what might have been had R&D funds not dried up after the introduction of the CD?
Re-reading what I wrote 2 years ago....I think an addendum is in order:-
I upgraded the TT-81 to the TT-101 which was an audible improvement IMHO.
I also purchased the Sutherland Timeline and by using the Victor TT-101 as a 'Benchmark'........I managed, by trialling different platter mats and different motor arrangements on the Raven AC.....to maximise the speed accuracy and neutrality of this belt-drive turntable so that it really is difficult for me to reliably 'pick' which deck I am listening to?
This resulted in the removal of one of the three motors on the AC-3.....and the removal of any platter mat at all. The vinyl record is placed directly on the copper platter top-plate with a heavy brass record weight on top.
The ability to directly compare two turntables and multiple tonearms is invaluable to improving the performance of one's system IMHO.
Regards
Henry |
I have said this before but will say it again. Thank u Henry for the inspiration behind your thread. Raul did mention Nude TT - in a couple of threads but we never did see a picture of his setup. I learned more about resonances and vibrations during this project than I would have, I feel in any other way. So if anyone is a little bit curious, adventurous and have a vintage DD go for it.
My SPMKII project has been through many versions. It is still not encased in a wrap around plinth, but it is now bolted to rigidly to the base (plinth) below it with the solid SS legs. The armpod I feel due to the 19 lbs involved provides a solid enough footing. Still, since the tonearm is unlikely to change, my next version will probably have the SS legs shortened, so that the armpod can be bolted directly to the base (plinth) as well. Similar in a way to the Verdier. |
Alright I got it Great writing!! I myself have all-ways thought if it was good/great 30 years ago its good/great today!!
some people just think because its 2013 and its a new design/turntable that it automatically = better
I love it...
Lawrence
Fidelity Forward |
Hi Lawrence, Perhaps you can start HEREBut there are questions and progress reports all the way through. |
Yes I though so too?! but where is YOUR written review ? I cannot find it
Lawrence
Fidelity Forward |
