Proper placement is a fairly important to achieving the best performance from any speaker, and the Vandy 2Ce is no exception. The owner's manual that comes with the Vandy 2-series and 3-series speakers is quite specific about setup, although I have found that some toe-in is often beneficial.
It would be helpful in formulating a response to your question to know more about the size and arrangement of your listening room. For example:
1. what are the room dimensions, including the ceiling shape?
2. where is the furniture placed in relation to your speakers?
3. is there any furniture between the speakers (such as your entertainment center), or between the speakers and your listening spot?
One problem I can immediately identify is the proximity of the speakers to the side and rear walls. To get the best sound from your Vandy speakers, they really need to be at least 3 feet from side walls, with a minimum of 2 feet (and preferably 3 feet or more) from the rear walls. |
The room is 14'x16'7' with a flat ceiling. The entertainment center is between the speakers. There is no other furniture in front of or around the speakers. One speaker is within 9 inches of a glass/wood french door. There is no possible way to have ANY speaker 3 feet from the glass/wood door in the room, unless you move the speakers closer together, they are 88 inches apart (center to center) & I sit 124 inches away from the speakers. |
I had the 2ce's. I'm sorry to say it but I had to move to a different speaker. |
That's exactly what I'm afraid of, I really like the sound but realize that may be my only choice. |
May I suggest room treatment. |
Fishwater - The Vandies DO image well. The problem is the proximity of the speakers to the walls and if that entertainment center is in front of the plane of the speakers or even with, their sound is going to suffer.
I owned the 2c's for 10 years and when I moved I encountered a problem similar to yours in the new room. They never worked and I reluctantly gave up. Subsequent speakers never eliminated the room problem I suffered from and I ended up setting up in another room a few years ago.
In their original location(my previous home) they were out in the open and were wonderful, providing all the important elements of music reproduction including excellent staging and imaging but more importantly their full range performance and balance was totally satisfying.
Recommendations would be to get rid of the entertainment center and move the speakers out and closer together, if this is at all possible. A tall order but while you may get better imaging from another design, you will never get maximum staging with your current room configuration. |
I think everyone who has responded to your question is reasonably certain that the lack of imaging, etc., is due to poor speaker placement. If there is any way to re-arrange your room before you give up on your Vandy's, you really should try.
Until you get the speakers away from the side walls, however, and out in front of your entertainment center, there isn't much likelihood that you will achieve the sound quality you want. When the Vandy's are properly located in the room, they are a fine speaker with the qualities you desire.
For what it's worth, my listening room is about the same size as yours, and I have an entertainment center between my Vandy 3A Sig's. However, I don't have the French doors to contend with. My speakers are located about 4 feet from the side walls (measured from the outside edge of the speaker), and about 30" from the rear wall (measured from the back of the speaker). The front of the speakers are about 12" beyond the front plane of the entertainment center which houses my TV and audio gear. The speakers are slightly toed-in toward the primary listening spot, and while my arrangement is hardly the best, I get good sound (imaging, soundstaging, frequency balance, etc.).
Hope you are able to find a solution to your dilemma that does not force you to sell your Vandy 2Ce Sig's, which are a very good speaker. |
I know it's not the speakers & is all the room. I really don't want to get rid of them but don't know where else to place them. The backs of the speakers are about 6 inches in front of the entertainment center, I can still move them forward a little but to get the left speaker away from the one french door is impossible. I may be able to steal another 6 inches but not much more on that left one. The right one is next to an open door way so isn't as much of a problem. I didn't know if a bass trap behind the left one would help clean it up a little b/c I really can't cover the glass door unless I use a rug over it every time I listen to music. |
Don't give up on the Vandy's! You will have a *very* hard time getting something better anywhere near their price...
First question - have you checked to make sure that the speakers are hooked up in phase? If they're wired incorrectly from the amp you will get no image...
Second - how good is your amp? Unless it is very very good, it is going to have a hard time creating a decent image with the speakers 7 feet apart... You are at the outside of what most amps can do with your distance. Try an experiment; move the speakers out about a foot further and then move them a foot closer together. See if your image snaps into place... If it doesn't, then I would begin to look at your other equipment...
I have used the 2c's as well as the 4's and have always found both to be pretty forgiving compared to other speakers I've used. Sure, room placement makes a difference but I've never had a situation where I wasn't able to achieve an excellent image...
Just a couple of ideas...
I can promise you if you hooked those speakers up to a Pass Aleph amp you would be blown away!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good luck to you,
Steve |
Fishwater try this site acousticsfirst.com They offer various room treatments for noise, home theater and music systems. If you submit a drawing of your room with all dimensions and placement of everything within the room they may be able to guide you with room treatments that can maximize your system. It wouldn't hurt at this point as your options seem quite limited. Last thing you want to do now is jump into another speaker until you explore all options otherwise you will end up spinning your wheels. Unsound's advice is sound and definitely worth exploring further.
Steve, no offense meant but as nice as the Pass aleph amps are, it seems quite clear the Pass isn't going to cure the problem Fishwater is experiencing. Room and placement is first and paramount in setting up a system properly. |
I've moved them in about one foot & the image is much better but still not where I would like it to be. Yes, tubegroover my issue is with placement not amplification. I have the CJ as well as a McCormack DNA-1, both of these should get me where I would like to be once the speakers are placed properly. Thanks for all the help, I will be moving stuff around as much as I can before I leave on a business trip this weekend. |
I noticed a huge improvement in imaging, soundstaging, and especially frequency balance, by adjusting the vertical angle of my 3A sigs. It might be worth a try if you have the adjustable stands.
Patience is a virtue needed when dealing with the Vandies. Sometimes those few inches make all the difference in the world, and WOW is it worth it. |
Fishwater,
I have 2CE Sigs myself. I stumbled across a website published by Richard Hardesty formally of Widescreen Review magazine. You really need to check this site out. I bought all of my equiptment based on the information I got from him. I also had the privelage of attending two seperate seminars that were conducted in his home. He uses Vandersteen 3A sigs. I took his setup and used it to fine tune my own setup. I can tell you one thing. He uses a modified ITU standard set up. I know that his speakers are 7' apart and his prime listening position is 9' from them. They do have a slight toe in and tilt back.
Remember all vandy's are time and phase accurate so placement is absolutely critical. The replys you have received before mine all posess good information but I can tell you that his site is full of unbelievable info. I know because I went through the same problems you are having. I don't know the rules on these thread pertaining to advertising sites so please email me and I can give you all the info. You can also give me a call if you wish. I will try and help you if I can. I will email you my phone number.
Good Luck,
Chris |
