New Tweak --- Its Fantastic
Well, when my CLEAR intention earlier was towards the (positive) aspect of the product you endorse, then, (finally) got a response from the manufacturer that was totally misread, I HAD SERIOUS QUESTIONS. See.... Now I'm being dismissed again. If as a BETA tester, (whatever that entails in a (business sense) includes a commission, YES, I think that has a bearing on the entire discussion here. I don't "have a negative attitude", if it is a clearly stated objective/benefit of the BETA tester. I'm sorry if this kind of transparency may offend you. I was "on the hook" . You're GUY , cut the hook! DEAL WITH IT! |
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Here we go again. Slaw ... read the entire text from my opening post on page one to this post here. I have clearly stated that I am not a principle in the organization, nor had I anything to do with the development of the product. I’m just a fellow audiophile who was lucky enough to be chosen by Tim Mrock to be one of his beta testers. I was/am so taken by the product that I enthusiastically presented it here, only to be personally attacked, called a shill, intimated that I was dishonest, a liar, etc. Again, anything negative that came from my keyboard was in self defense and the defense of a small businessman trying to get his new product into production and consumer use in the face of a few here who were obviously out to destroy him. You seem to have a negative attitude toward commissioned salespeople, slaw. If that’s the case, why? I’d love to have that conversation with you ... You’ve taken issue with the way the product was "rolled out." Again, read my initial post on page one of this thread and point out any negatives you see. Thanks ... And speaking of Harmonia Mundi recordings, here’s a real winner: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rossini-Chiu-Peches-de-Vieilesse-Harmonia-Mundi-France-Like-New/26209250699... Solo piano that is right there in the room with you .... if you have a highly resolving system. Frank |
Every thing being equal, I’d say yes as well. All along, I was a somewhat skeptic but kept my ears open. When I had a valid question, never was taken seriously. Now, that I’ve been taken somewhat seriously, I was totally misread by the manufacturer. This is not easily discounted. Frank, you're not on commission are you? |
I predict that "slaw" will become one of the most positive advocates of Total Contact. Who here likes chamber music? I was listening to this with my morning coffee. With the entire system now pasted with the latest incarnation of TC, the musicians were spread all the way across the sound stage beyond the left and right speaker. The sound stage was in three dimensional relief with each player in their own space. A bit uncanny, if you ask me. I’m a big fan of Harmonia Mundi recordings. This one is really good. Highly recommended. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Boccherini-Quintets-CD-Jun-1990-Harmonia-Mundi-Distributor/192346597153?epi... Frank |
@perfectpath, You totally mis-read the intention of my post! My post wasn’t intended to be a comparison between the two products. I thought if anything, you’d see I am coming around towards possibly ordering! I had mentioned earlier in this thread that I wasn’t a fan of Sil-Clear. I was just responding to shadorn’s post., with an inquisitive ending regarding any binder used. wow! ...a step backwards??? |
Tim, I am scheduled to get the total contact today. I just need to know if I need to “clean” off the applicator brush or do I leave the residual from the application on it? If so, do I need to put it in a ziplock bag to keep it “hydrated”? If I need to remove the residual, do I use rubbing alcohol? Thanks |
@slaw You asked so I will share about sil-clear, only because I had a lot of experience with it, and it was not positive at all. Starts ok, seemed promising. did stop the micro arcing. At around a month the sound started going south, trying to remove it was a nightmare!!! Thank God I had not put any in my electrical system. I also wondered how they could sell such a large amount for so little? Want to know the answer? Take some put a drop of nitric acid on it and let us know what happens. It is not my intention to crap on other enhancers, I have sat quietly and watched this truly revolutionary product dragged through the mud, along with my name, and reputation. My point with above example is there is nothing even close. Would you rather ride a horse or drive a indy racer? |
shadorne sez:
Would a ’soft metal gold contact’ eliminate micro arcing? slaw sez:
Why in the world would Tim Mrock give up the formula for his binder in a pubic forum? Only a fool would do that ... and Tim isn’t anyone’s fool. Not by a long shot. Frank |
UL do extensive testing in their labs - so it incurrs costs. Similar to acoustic panels, there are other labs that can test panels and measure their absorption but it is always expensive to do things properly and professionally. You have stated that the TC product “does not migrate” but how can you apply something that doesn’t migrate? Does it dry to a solid after application? If it dries to a solid how effective can it be versus a soft metal gold contact? |
@shadrone I have 35 panels under my belt. First for the scenario you paint, the product would have to migrate, it does not. Second I do not recommend at all individuals playing with their panels, liability. I have already had a UL quote, have any idea what that cost? A lot, Hence ever see a aftermarket power cord with one? There are few, but not many. UL listing is on my list. When I hit a certain number of units sold UL will be executed. Thank you for concern for your fellow Audiophiles. |
Just a few words of caution when I see the words “breaker box” above... I would advise anyone using TC product to check with their insurance to see if they are covered in case of an electrically caused fire. The appliances you use all have a UL test label on them indicating safe for use. Electrical contacts are not supposed to be coated in a conductive liquid. If some of this conductive liquid TC material were to run slightly and create a short and a fire - you can bet the insurance company would find it on another socket or from an analysis from the ashes. You might not be covered because of “tampering” or “misuse”! It it is one thing to create an unintended short out and damage of your high end audio gear but a fire in the house where your family sleeps is just not worth the risk, no matter how amazing the promoters extol the results. In fact the manufacturer and promoter might want to take out liability insurance themselves, just in case. |
slaw, I’ve only done plugs, and I wouldn’t feel safe or comfortable treating outlets myself at this point, so I’ll let others address this further. But, to answer your question, yes, that makes sense to me, if you are comfortable with, and capable of doing it. As far as the brush, it looks to me like something that would be readily available at, say, an art supply store or website. |
In spite of how this product was rolled out to us, I always had interest in it. This interest continues to grow. I was thinking.. if I had TC at home right now, where would I first try it? I think I’d begin on my AC outlets..then go from there. Does this make sense to anyone? How long does the included application brush last? Is there a some easy to buy alternative? |
theaudiotweak wrote, ”The tray assembly and surrounding parts have been treated for years. My comments were to color not just the tray but all the other surfaces that refract light. The whole damn innards of the chassis if possible.” >>>>>Tom, no offense but you are confusing the terms diffraction, refraction and reflection. Refraction occurs when light passes through a different medium such as when light passes from air through glass. Diffraction occurs when light strikes a slit or sharp obstacle such as a diffraction grating. Reflection occurs when light strikes a flat surface such as a mirror or when the CD laser strikes the flat metal layer of the CD. It’s the reflected light that enters the photodetector. Obviously it’s a little more complicated with the pits and lands. The CD red/infrared laser undergoes refraction passing through the CD polycarbonate layer, and changes wavelength, the light changes back to its original wavelength when it leaves the polycarbonate and reenters the air. You still haven’t answered the fundamental question - what about the invisible light? You can paint the entire CD player turquoise and the majority of the CD laser scattered will not (rpt not) be absorbed by the turquoise color. It’s invisible! |
Back to the Total Contact experience.. Yesterday while listening and enjoying great sound I was trying to describe what I was in the midst of. The sound was emanating into a real acoustic space as if the notes were coming from real instruments in a music hall. Imagine one note being launched from a single point but as soon as it leaves the instrument in total focus it becomes spherical in shape and the content of air around that single note fills the room. Now image the content of a whole selection of music containing those point sources that are nearly 360 degrees round of the real event..For now that is my best and most accurate description.Tom |
theaudiotweak oh Geoff you ass ume everyone else is ignorant..We made our own mats years ago that address many issues no others ever did or have since. I treated my entire PS audio transport tray and laser housing long ago with paint and AVM >>Mats are exactly not (rpt not) what I’m talking about. Don’t you read comprehensively? Still no answer on the subject of the invisible light. I guess you decided to ignore the question. The AVM stuff is irrelevant as it doesn’t address scattered light. If the laser is ever so slightly out of alignment or focus their will be refraction of that light ..Are the pits on the disc optically perfect in shape? Will a scratch on the disc not refract light? You understand refraction the same way you don’t understand shear waves in solids. Just forget IT. No need for anger. We all understand your shear waves. 🙄 I don’t scratch my discs. Besides, that’s a silly argument since the whole issue involves light reflection not refraction. It’s the reflected scattered light that gets into the photodetector. It’s reflected light inside the transport that makes it glow red. Duh! |
@tommylion, Your comment about the (pitting) on surfaces that are not visible to the naked eye and how that could be related to "micro-arcing" makes sense to me as well. I remember seeing a magnified gold plated RCA jack in an ad for CAIG I believe, years ago that showed this (pitting)....this being one reason for using their products. |
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theaudiotweak The tray assembly and surrounding parts have been treated for years. My comments were to color not just the tray but all the other surfaces that refract light. The whole damn innards of the chassis if possible. Actually the trays haven’t been treated for years, except by me. Or if they have, not correctly or not completely. I’m not referrring to Marigo CD mats and similar. Maybe you don’t understand the question. But what about the invisible light? I’m not getting anybody to bite. By the way you’re using the word refract incorrectly. I already suggested treating the entire inside of the transport. Let’s see, was it yesterday? 😀 Besides, you still have the sticky problem of the invisible scattered light. |
Uh, I’ve only had a turquoise tray masking product for like 12 years. Hel-loo! Do you think these hands have been soaking in Ivory Liquid? 😛 As you can probably image I have a similar product for Blu-ray discs. Pop quiz: But what about the invisible scattered light, the stuff that’s not amenable to colors? Extra credit - guess what color the tray masking is for Blu-ray, multiple choice: a. Turquoise b. Blue c. Red d. Yellow e. Black |
Geoff With all our words exchanged it seems to me that those of us who still use a cd player or a transport should consider painting the inside top lid green or any other internal chassis surface they can comfortably recolor. Your thoughts on this color swap? I also have found that the same color with a different paint finish affects the overall sound inside a room and so I think a flat green finish will sound different than a satin or gloss finish inside a cd player. We recently adjusted the spectral balance in one of our Energy Room’s by changing some painted wall sections that were flat to an eggshell finish. This after some different flooring was installed. Nice tweak out it was. I have my transport lid off now as I have been using Total Contact on connections and allowing those to air dry and acclimate. Now may be a good time to paint. Tom |
I posted a paper on the subject on my website some years back. The Green Pen and beyond.... http://machinadynamica.com/machina23.htm |
The wavelength of the CD laser is nominal 780 nm, solidly in the near infrared spectrum. But the laser is not monochromatic, it has a bandwidth due to its quantum nature and also to its cheapness. That bandwidth probably extends from, say, 650 nm to 900 nm,with most of the energy centered at 780 nm. The reason green or shades of green works is because it absorbs the scattered laser light in the region 650 to 700 nm, the red portion. If you could see inside the transport while the CD was playing you would see the color red, because as I said the lower sideband of the light is red. Most of the light inside the transport is invisible, I.e., greater than 700 nm. Even with some absorption of red light most of the rest of the scattered laser light is free to travel around inside the transport and perhaps get into the photodetector. The photodetector will accept any light within its bandwidth that is more than 75% of full reflected power. At least that’s how I see it. |
The laser’s real wavelength, the one that’s 780 nm, is invisible and not affected by color. Not by green, turquoise, blue or black, etc. The best you can do with green or turquoise is absorb some of the lower sideband - the stuff below 700 nm. It’s a cheap laser and even cheaper photodetector so just about anything that can get through will get through. Anyone not follow raise your hand. |
theaudiotweak On the cd topper I would say that the change is electromagnetic shielding or absorption and it could also be absorbing stray light bouncing off the cd edges and bouncing around inside the chassis. Less light emission inside means there will be less error correction required and and a less corrupted signal which means better sound. I have a cd topper that covers the top and the edges to virtually eliminate light scatter being read. A couple of things. One is that much of the scattered light problem occurs right next to the laser on the data side of the disc.which is why coloring the data side near the spindle hole of the CD is effective. Of course, one could line the entire inside of the transport with absorbing material, you know, like turquoise colored paper. >>>>>>Black actually is not that great an absorber of infrared light (above 700 nm) which is invisible. Colors don’t absorb outside the visible part of the spectrum. And turquoise or green absorbs visible RED scattered light, which is somewhat below the nominal wavelength of the CD laser, 780 nm. So what about the scattered light above red, above around 700 nm? The band between say, 700 nm and 850 nm. The turquoise won’t work for near infrared. Nor will black. Not to mention the color black should never be used on the label side or the outer edge, only on the inner edge, the part that touches the spindle. It should also be mentioned that the color of the CD label graphics also affects the sound. Thus, a lot of experimentation is actually necessary to arrive at the ideal combination of colors for each CD, depending on colors used in the label graphics. Too much experimentation for this dude. I just use Green, Black and Orange. |
On the cd topper I would say that the change is electromagnetic shielding or absorption and it could also be absorbing stray light bouncing off the cd edges and bouncing around inside the chassis. Less light emission inside means there will be less error correction required and and a less corrupted signal which means better sound. I have a cd topper that covers the top and the edges to virtually eliminate light scatter being read. Tom |
@tommylion I agree with you and have said so on many threads here. I am not ready to try TC yet as I am invested in an amplifier modification project right now. One thing at a time. In what possible way is TC a treatment for the top of a CD damping disc. I have that exact disc damper and use it every day. Why would someone put a contact enhancer on top of a disc damper whose sole purpose is to damp resonance as discs spin in the disc transport? Isn’t that a waste of TC? But hey! this is still America and you can do what you will with a product you purchase. I like to think I have a pretty good imagination regarding our audio endeavors, but that one is a bridge too far. If sgordon1 would like to explain his logic, I am certainly willing to read what he says and think about it.🤔 |
Genuine skepticism and caution certainly have their place, but I struggle to understand and tolerate those who just enjoy raining on someone else's parade. I guess the old saying “misery loves company” applies. When somebody experiences something good, and shares it, I want to be happy for them and with them, not deny that it's possible, ridicule them, question their motives, or hammer on potential negatives (real or imagined). |
