New Sony HAP-Z1ES Firmware Out Today

....so why is it not preferable to have a computer in a stereo system?

IMO, the answer depends on the level of audio nirvana you're wishing to achieve. Meaning, while a computer USB output to an external DAC USB input is very doable, listenable, etc., it is often considered (by the DAC manufacturer) the least quality with respect to other inputs the same DAC would typically have.  Also IMO, I believe the same can be said of the USB cable with respect to S/PDIF,  AES/EBU, etc. cables. The aforementioned said, the difference could still amount to splitting hairs and you may never realize or care to realize there are better options than USB. IMO, if USB works for you and this is your way of keeping things simple, go for it.

Just curious ... I’m thinking of migrating to digital music files, so why is it not preferable to have a computer in a stereo system? I have been thinking of using a laptop into an external DAC into my preamp because I am not network savvy and wish to keep things simple.

Ok, the C-Media CM6631A work with last firmware version.

I finished my project, for those who use a DAC, that can be interesting.
Sony HAP S1/Z1ES remote control key remapping demonstration video :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIhKWJwfVIU

That's the problem, as I just bought it, the previous firmware is not the 18033R, but one that is 2 years old and does not yet support USB DAC. :)

PS : As expected the support was of no use. (Japanese support has understood my problem, which I doubt in others ^^)

I'll make one last attempt with a non XMOS DAC to see if it works, then I'll give up. Either there will be another firmware, or when I change my amp, maybe I'll hear some sound if it outputs all the streams to DSD.

The HAP-Z1ES firmware could be rolled-back to the previous version "press and hold the Home Button while turning the Unit on, you will see the light above the power button flash a few times and then hear a click and it will stop flashing, it will turn on the Special Mode (in the display menu), choose the 3rd option down and it will roll-back to the previous version firmware".

My set-up (HAP-Z1ES via USB into Devialet Expert 400) will not work with the current 0018120R version firmware, but works fine with the previous 0018033R version firmware.

Ok, m2tech HiFace two not work...

Yes, DSD output, on or off, nothing changes, I will take with m2tech HiFace two (the third dac...).

PS: I also contacted Sony supports in America, Japan, France, to see if they can give me a way to downgrade to version 18033R (download firmware) which seems to work better for some, but I'm not under any illusions about that. I await their answers.

@pro_info - make sure your Sony is set to - DSD Output (DoP) - On

@highstandards - My settings on my Sony HAP-Z1 to connect to the Auralic Vega DAC are:

DSEE - Auto
Gapless Playback - Auto
Volume Normalization - Auto
DSD Remastering - On
Oversampling - On
USB Digital Output - Auto
- DSD Output (DoP) - On
Fade In/Out - On
Software Version - 0018120R

Nothing special as far as setup on the Auralic Vega.  You may want to try a couple of different USB cables to ensure the cable isn't the problem.

Hi guys,
I just bought an HAP-S1, and no DACs are working.
I don't have a DSD amp, so I try to run it in PCM, but my amp doesn't detect any audio signals.
I connected a Singxer F-1, I do have the play led that lights up when the player is playing, but the DSD led stays on all the time, even if I disable the DSD in the player settings. So I don't know if a DSD signal comes out non-stop (since I don't have a compatible amp), or if even the DSD signal works (maybe it comes out my 44.1kHz 16bits flac tracks in"DSD" instead of PCM).

Anyway, I tried with a PCM only compatible card, and there I have no signal coming out either. I don't have any indication leds on this one.

Is there a way back to the previous firmware that seems to work for some? Knowing that the downgrade option switches me back to an old version that does not yet support USB DAC... since I just bought it and upgrade.

Thank you and sorry if the translation is a little screwed up.

@highstandards - need to have DSD/DOP set I think, but I don’t remember what else.  I will look tomorrow.  Has been working without a hitch for two years.

@sfseay I cannot get the Sony HAPZ1ES to connect with my Vega 
The Sony has the  current software I have spoken with both Sony and Auralic people and all are cratchibg their heads 
how were you able to connect 
please advise
thanks 
Rick

Sfseay
i cannot get the Sony HAPZ1ES to link with my  Auralic Vega
i have the latest software installed on the Sony 
how were you able to connect 
please advise 
thanks
 

@sfseay Do you use a streaming service like Tidal via your Auralic Vega? If so, do you have a music streaming device or just your PC? 

My goal would be to have my Sony HAPZ1 handle the purchased tunes, and somehow interface with Tidal to enable streaming playback. Then I could decide to upgrade with a USB DAC if later desired. Since Spotify hasn't upgraded to high res, I still have to use two devices (the Sony and a separate setup to stream music).

I have an Auralic Vega DAC connected to my Sony HAP Z1's USB port and there is a definite improvement in the sound. I’m outputting 44.1kb, flac, DSD 64 and DSD 128. Wonderful!

All,

A white horizontal line appeared in the display of my HAP-Z1ES about two months ago.  I do not know if the line is relevant to, or connected with, the cessation of function of my HAP when the internal drive becomes full or nearly full (see my previous post, above).

After perusing Sony's online information regarding the HAP, I contacted Sony via its support phone number (1 (877) 643-1216. To my surprise, a person answered the phone when I called; the person understood what I was talking about; the person did not ask me endless irrelevant questions; and the person genuinely attempted to answer my questions. Sony is sending me a repair ticket and will repair my HAP at no cost. The gentleman who answered the phone said the repair would take 5-7 business days.

Has anyone here been experimenting with externals DACs connected to the HAP-Z1ES USB port?  Is the signal that comes from the HAP USB port to the external DAC a PCM signal or a DSD signal?  Can we choose, or designate, the type of signal sent from the USB port to the external DAC?  Can we configure the HAP-Z1ES to send a PCM signal through its USB port?

One reason I ask is that The Absolute Sound, in its May/June 2017 issue (which has just come out, at least online), has an article by Robert Harley regarding the "Schiit Audio Yggdrasil DAC".  Harley states this DAC, which will accept a PCM signal but not DSD, is one of the three greatest DACs, at any price, he's ever heard (the other DACs cost $19,500 and $35,000, respectively).  He raved about it.  Given the reasonable price ($2300) of the Schiit DAC, it would be very nice and very handy if the HAP-Z1ES could be configured to emit a PCM signal from its USB port so the Schiit could accept the signal and do its magic to it.

TWD

@davehg Interesting to hear about the perceived improvement after the latest firmware.  I recently updated firmware as well, although I did not A/B the sound quality, presuming there would be only functionality updates, not sound updates.  I will say that the HAP-Z1ES seems to improve over time (burn in), although that may be psychological, right?

Anyone know for sure whether Sony's going to keep this model up to date?  Like most users, I'm eager to try higher-res streaming (preferring Spotify) if and when it becomes available.

Downloaded and updated to the new software today. Not using a USB DAC, just balanced out to a headphone amp (Woo WA22) and using the headphone in balanced mode.

I would swear the HAPZ1ES sounds smoother, more detailed, and a tad warmer than before, and less dry or clinical. Not having a chance to A/B. I did listen to a few cuts, then updated, then listened those cuts again. Much prefer the new version.

If they don't end up supporting Tidal, hopefully Spotify will launch and Sony HAP will support Hi Rez. I'd really like to simply down to one device for all digital music needs.

Do you need to send your player to Sony in order to rollback to the previous version? If you don't, how do we rollback to the previous version? thanks 

Sony helped me rollback my firmware to the previous version, until the new firmware is revised. My HAP-Z1ES is back online and once again working like a dream.

I'm having the same problem (USB Digital Output not working / Analog Output works fine) due to the 2/28/2017 Firmware Update. I opened a Trouble Ticket with Sony - Japan, I'll follow-up with them next week and post the results.  

I bought the same unit on 12/16/2013, almost immediately after the first release. I loaded on the entire 1 TB with music. I did not use the unit for long time until the firmware upgrad so that I can use external DAC. 

For your question #1: I had the exactly same issue. I have tried few power red USB hub with no success. Finally, I tried passive, no wire USB hub $2.99). It worked since then. 

For your question #2: I am having the exactly same problem after the 2/28/2017 firmware update, prior to that, everything was prefect. After the update, I can not output PCM from USB output, no matter what I do. It will always output DSD with 512 with no sound, but noise. I have tried few DACs without success, one of my DACs shows 512, no sound but noise. All DACs failed play. 

Analog (RCA) output plays fine. However, my DACs are lot better than Sony's DAC. 

Hello, All . . .

I’ve had my HAP Z1-ES about two years now. The internal drive is full, but before it became that way I connected an external 1TB solid state drive to the HAP via the USB port. It is my belief the sound quality of my HAP has improved with time, in every critical facet. With a good recording and a warmed-up system, there is a very nice concert in my house every evening.

Having said all this, I’ve experienced some weird issues with the HAP and wonder if any of you have experienced the same or related issues, and have insights or suggestions.

1. Sometimes I turn on the HAP and it appears to boot-up normally, but when I attempt to select an album or artist or track or even go to Spotify or internet radio, the HAP freezes and will not play. I end up having to turn it off and on several times, and then it will finally operate normally if I select Tracks mode and play a portion of the first track, then select what I want the HAP to really play. I suspect this problem is related to the internal drive being 99.5% full (there are 1.5 gigabytes of space left, but that’s all).  Contra, the external drive has barely been tapped.

2. Today I selected tracks or albums in the HAP that have always played perfectly and sounded wonderful in the past, but instead of music I received a horrible loud obnoxious scratching ripping white noise sound. (This was unpleasant in the way ten thousand fingernails scratching at ten thousand chalkboards--at close range--is unpleasant.) I am almost positive the HAP was not transferring (uploading) music from the computer on my network when these wretched noises occurred--if it was, it was doing so automatically. I deleted the tracks or albums which made the horrid noises, then reloaded the tracks and albums and let the HAP choose which drive to place the albums in. I also made sure the HAP was not uploading music from my network computer. I then rebooted the HAP and waited a little while, then attempted to play the tracks/albums again. This time the music played properly and sounded fine.

3. I am wondering if there is a mechanical/electrical genius audiophile person out there (who reads this) who might have devised a way, or knows of a way (one that does not cost many thousands of dollars), to not only connect a DAC to the HAP via the USB port, but also, simultaneously, access an external drive which some of us already have connected to our HAP(s) via the USB port. Is there a hub device which can be connected to the USB port, and then multiple devices (a DAC, an external drive, etc.) connected to the hub, so that multiple devices can operate from the USB port at the same time?  I love the idea of having an external DAC, but not if I cannot access an external drive accessed by the HAP.

Thank you.

TWD

N.B.--I am deeply interested in comments from HAP owners who have connected external DACs to their HAPs and conducted critical A v. B listening experiments as to whether significant improvements in sound can be obtained from an external DAC, and if so, which DAC or DACs do the magic.

I just connected my Sony to an Auralic Vega.  I can't really hear much difference initially.  Need to do some more listening by switching back and forth.

Thanks to everyone for the various helpful info on this thread.  Found a Sony at ta good price, and I've now installed the HAP-Z1ES in my system and ripped a few hundred CDs to the internal hard drive.  Took a little while, but now it's done, and the table app makes navigation very easy.  Sound quality is pretty decent at this point, and the convenience is awesome compared to spinning single CDs.  Spotify Premium is integrated very nicely with the tablet app, thanks to the recent firmware update.  Is Tidal on the horizon?  Who knows, because how in the world does one get actual product information for this unit out of Sony?  Until it gets released as firmware, that is.

But I'm already thinking of upgrades.  Has anyone else tried an outboard DAC via USB to bypass the Sony DAC?  What are your results?  And is doing so better than starting with, say a 2K ModWright hot-rodding of the Sony?  

I use all Groneberg Quattro Reference interconnects and speaker cables.  My amp is internally wired with it.  The interconnects go for around 325.00 for a 1 meter pair with the WBT locking rca plugs.

I also enjoyed my HAP Z1ES, it is better than my "a bit old" sony XA9000ES SACD/CD player which was rated A+ by Stereophile few years ago.

Stereo5, may I know what interconnect cable are you using to connect your HAPZ1ES to your preamp/integrated amp?

i am using old audience 24es rca and I think it can be upgraded.

I tried it with my Wyred4Sound DAC-2 with DSD and Femto Clock.  The dac cost me 1725.00.  The Sony bettered it in a way that the music really flows and  sounds more organic.  The Wyred dac uses the ESS 9018 dac chip.  Needless to say I sold the Wyred dac and bought a second HAPZ1ES player for my other system. 

Any body else who has good experience connecting HAP-Z1ES via usb digital to DAC? Does it worth to get Dac or the HAP-Z1ES' so called remastering engine is already good enough?

The VU-71 is very hard to find.  There weren't many made and they aren't well known.  Too bad.  This is a great 5U4 tube. I like it much better than any other rectifier I have tried in the PS 9.0.

brownsfan, I have 60's Telefunken e88cc and is excellent.    I'll investigate canadian Westinghouse VU-71 ...

I've had MW 6SN7s and agree MW Sony with Lundahl transformer coupling and 6922/e88cc are more transparent and neutral.  I wasn't planning buying another MW except Sony is a completely different design so was curious.

Your description does make me wonder how the Atlantic would pair with a stock sony.

Sony digital out is stock and doesn't need MW tube analog mod so shouldn't matter.   As matter of fact, PS 9.0 is off when I use digital out.

Knghifi, Thanks for you update.  I guess I am not surprised, because the MW Sony is a very good piece.  I run Telefunken e88C's and a canadian Westinghouse VU-71 rectifier in mine, and it is as you describe transparent and neutral.  Much more so than the older MW designs with 6SN7 output tubes.  Based on your assessment, it does not sound as if the Atlantic would be a wise move for me.  Your description does make me wonder how the Atlantic would pair with a stock sony.

@brownsfan Lampizator Atlantic update. I had it for 2 weeks. spent 1st week breaking in playing 24/7.

I only use my MW Sony HAP-Z1ES USB output with a JCAT USB Isolator inserted in the chain to improve quality of USB signal.

SQ is excellent. Airy, big sound stage, dynamic, 3D, deep bass, DHT tubes are surprisingly linear and neutral.   Not a soft sound.

Compare to MW Sony HAP-Z1ES, it has more tube magic.

I prefer a transparent, linear and neutral sound so rolling 60's Siemen e88cc signal tubes and Telefunken NOS GZ32 rectifier in my MW Sony.

In my all tube system (ARC Ref250SE and VAC SigMKIIa SE), I prefer the more neutral and maybe a TOUCH more transparent (transformer coupling) MW Sony HAP-Z1ES but can perfectly understand if someone prefers the Atlantic.  

It's possible if I replace ARC with my summer Hegel H30 amp, I would prefer the Atlantic.   One is not better ... but just different.

New firmware update a day or so ago...

knghifi, this should be interesting as you get some time on the Atlantic. 

My dealer friend dropped off the Lampizator Atlantic today and it worked flawlessly with my MW Sony HAP-Z1ES USB output. A JCAT USB Isolator was inserted in the chain to improve quality of USB signal.    MW Sony HAP-Z1ES needs 2 power cables, 1 digital and 1 analog and only need to turn on the digital side with external DAC.

The Atlantic is single ended, have both clock options and tube rectifier.

Fresh out of the box, Atlantic sounds excellent. Very musical, lots of detail, transparency, depth ... only complain is limited bass but should improve with more break-in.

Looks like Lamp is a REAL company now. Build quality is excellent and dead quiet.

I plan to keep it for 2 weeks helping with break-in.

Hi milesian, thanks very much :)

" Do I connect the Dac to the SONY via the USB on the Sony and then RCA from the DAC to my Integrated amp? "


Exactly.

I am pretty new to this game so I would appreciate if someone can tell me how to connect the cables if I choose to have a DAC with my HAP-Z1ES. 
Do I connect the Dac to the SONY via the USB on the Sony and then RCA from the DAC to my Integrated amp?
Apologies for this newbie question but I have only about a year's experience with audio. Would also appreciate a recommendation on a decent DAC  that has a USB connection.
Regards.

knghifi,  Please keep us informed about how the atlantic does compared to the MW analog output.  I had been thinking about trying one of the Lampizator DACs.  Now I can wait for you to run the experiment. 

I find the wireless connectivity occasionally flakey and tend the leave  the HAP switched on all the time. Sometimes, even in the same room, my Ipad can't find the device. Switching to a wired ethernet connection seems to be a bit more stable.

My local dealer friend received his Lampizator Atlantic yesterday and wants me to break it in for him.   I'm going to use my MW Sony HAP USB to drive it and compare against the ModWright analog output stage. This will be fun.

I plugged in my Meridian Explorer DAC and works fine. Only issue I am seeing is with MQA files. The DAC is not showing a blue light which makes me suspect at this point the HAP is not passing the MQA protocol, which seems strange. Is there a new ipad app that usually goes along with a firmware upgrade. I did find the new playback settings on the HAP menu. 

I should also point out that rescanning the HAP's hard drive takes HOURS...

Thanks! for sharing-

Initially I also transferred my entire iTunes library onto the HAP using a LAN connection.   With new music either downloaded or ripped, the HAP software running on the PC automatically pushes it to the player.   So only time I need a PC is with new music.

I don't want a computer in my system and more companies are offering network bridges so there are options.  

I have a MW HAP and with tweaks and tube rolling, it's competitive with anything under $10K.

@oblgny That's exactly the information I've been after with respect to the Sony HAP unit.  We seem to share the principle of keeping computers the heck out of one's listening room, at least to the extent possible these days. What you describe --- Apple USB CD drive for loading disks (mine and those of music-listening visitors) at leisure into the HAP --- is what I'd had in mind, and you've confirmed that this works fine.  The new firmware, which according to the excellent post by @stereo5 now allows the addition of outboard DACs, is another great development.  Guess I'll need to just go ahead and buy the HAP and see how long I can resist getting it hot-rodded by Dan Wright.