SAEC SS-300 solid mat is excellent for Pioneer platter. The best cartridge is Pioneer PC-1000 mk2 with Beryllium cantilrver, but it's very rare, the sound signature is very close to the best Stanton cartridges from the '80s. You can use some of the best classics on Pioneer tonearm: Stanton 881s and 881s mk2 (or Pickering equipment XSV/3000 and XSV/4000).
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@chakster - Thanks for the reply. Regarding the SAEC Mat: Per an eBay classified I found, it says it is 298mm diameter. That means it is going to sit up in the raised lip of the platter. Considering it is a solid Mat, only the edge on the mat, and the inside of the spindle hole, will be touching the platter. It would not fit down inside of the recess in the platter. Is that typical with the "Super-OEM turntables, or even the original Technics tables? Just curious.
Regarding the cartridge, I'm probably going with a current production cartridge, unless I can find a vintage cartridge that I can audition locally. What do you think of an Ortofon 2M Bronze? I've read several posts, on various sites, stating it is very good on this new Pioneer model.
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I added the PLX1000 to my TT collection. I am using the Denon 103R mc cartridge along with a Bellari SUT into the RGR 4 preamp. I prefer a mc over any mm. Superior transient response and lower noise floor. Better detail retrieval from LPs - more dynamic too! At around $300 the Denon 103R is an easy budget choice.
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@jasonbourne52 - Thanks for the reply. I'm think I'm going to go with MM, mainly just because I don't want to buy an additional phono pre-amp. I actually have a Parasound Z-phono I could us, if needed, but I like the simplicity of just using the built-in phono section of the Rega Integrated.
Do you use an aftermarket Mat on your PLX1000? If not, do you put the record directly on the stock rubber mat? If yes, do you place the aftermarket mat on top of the stock rubber mat?
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I use the stock mat. It is high quality. Any change will be a sideways move! If you still want to try a different mat then remove the stock mat.
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Regarding the choice of cartridges I prefer the Grado moving iron (MI) cartridges over MMs because they are immune to capacitive loading. They also have superior transient response, being low-inductance.
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Hey reubent,
There is a Empire 2000Z on US Audio Mart for $300 (Canadian). The seller states it has a NOS stylus with only 3 hours on it. A very nice cartridge for the money. Kind of tempted to buy it myself but already have that one as well as their model 4000.
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Use the rubber mat. Audio Technica VM750SH.
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Depending on your preferences and system, Nagaoka MP200/MP300 or AT-VM740ML/750SH.
If you prefer the open midrange character and clarity of something like the Nag, IMHO the hot deal near budget is to grab an MP150 ($310 on Amazon, and add a JN-P500/MP500 stylus for ~ $250, and gain the benefit of the nude fine line and boron cantilever (It made a huge improvement to my modded LP120X...I think it’s wonderful), plus end up with an extra nude ellitpical stylus with tapered aluminum cantilever. To stay within budget, you can add the JN-P/MP200 nude ellitptical/boron cantilever stylus instead for as little as ~ $170 and end up with an extra MP150 stylus for about the same price as the MP200.)
I’ve been pleased with a cork/rubber combination mat by Record-Happy.
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I would recommend ADC TRX series. Designed for ADC by
Nakatsuka san who also designed Madrigal Carnegy and
Ortofom MC 25 MC 25. before starting his own company ZYX.
Designer is the most imortant ''part'' of any cartridge.
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Everyone,
Thanks for the responses, so far. Much appreciated...
So far, I've received a mix of vintage and current cartridges. If you recommended vintage, just curious why? Does the possibility of receiving a worn out cartridge, or a stylus that is past it's prime, concern you? Seems like replacement stylus for some of these older cartridges might be hard to find, and expensive. Is it worth the risk?
Lastly, with and of these recommendations, do I need to be concerned about compliance with the stock tonearm on this new Pioneer PLX1000?
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@chakster - Thanks for the reply. Regarding the SAEC Mat: Per an eBay classified I found, it says it is 298mm diameter. That means it is going to sit up in the raised lip of the platter. Considering it is a solid Mat, only the edge on the mat, and the inside of the spindle hole, will be touching the platter. It would not fit down inside of the recess in the platter. Is that typical with the "Super-OEM turntables, or even the original Technics tables? Just curious.
Pioneer platter is a clone of Technics platter.
This is SAEC SS-300:
 
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So far, I've received a mix of vintage and current cartridges. If you recommended vintage, just curious why? Does the possibility of receiving a worn out cartridge, or a stylus that is past it's prime, concern you? Seems like replacement stylus for some of these older cartridges might be hard to find, and expensive. Is it worth the risk?
I do NOT recommend used vintage cartridges if you don't know the seller and his reputation. I recommend NOS (NEW OLD STOCK) vintage cartridges, specific models from well know brands, the reason why I recommend them is very simple - the sound quality is muhc better, because MM is not trendy nowadays, but MM in the past was better than MC. You got recommendations from people who acually compared many different cartridges, not from stranges who just recommend what they have without trying many different carts.
Lastly, with and of these recommendations, do I need to be concerned about compliance with the stock tonearm on this new Pioneer PLX1000?
Mid or High compliance cartridges is what you need. Do not use a low compliance cartridges on this tonearm!
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It's a shame that Pioneed stopped making cartridges long time ago, their PC-1000 mkII was a gian killer on the reference Pioneer tonearm on this turntable.
You may not find NOS Pioneer cartridge, but you could find a NOS Stanton 881s and this great bargain was mentioned in the same TAS article where you can read about Audio-Technics AT-ML170 (one of my favorites MM).
Unfortunately the link doesn't work anymore for me: http://www.regonaudio.com/Stanton881AudioTechnicaATML70.html
Confirmed in conversation with Doug Sax (RIP), the Stanton 881 mkII was the usual monitoring cartridge of Doug Sax's legendary disc Mastering Lab. Doug Sax could buy any cartridge for his studio, but Stanton 881 mkII was his choice according to an old TAS review you read here.
Doug Sax was a mastering engineer from L.A. He mastered three of The Doors' albums, including their 1967 debut; six of Pink Floyd's albums, including The Wall. Doug also mastered albums for Miles Davis, Bob James, The Rolling Stones, The Who, Frank Zappa and many others. His Mastering Lab uses analog equipment designed by Sherwood. That, combined with his ears and expertise, helped Sax forge a long and successful career at The Mastering Lab. In 1970, Sax and Mayorga founded Sheffield Lab Recordings, an audiophile label which produced direct-to-disc albums.
Doug Sax is famous for DIRECT CUT (Direct-To-Disk) recording techniques. This is when a signal from the mics goes to the mixing console and to the cutter stylus (no reel to reel in between). Audiophiles raving about his Sheffield LAB direct cut albums. His monitoring cartridge was Stanton 881s (not even the best Stanton model, but close to the best models). In that TAS article many engineers claimed that MC has a lot of coloration and is not true to the sound. This is an opinion, but an opinion from very well educated sound engineers and mastering engineers with very good ears.
It's too bad the link is broken, because I saved only short notes on my computer from that TAS article:
http://www.regonaudio.com/Stanton881AudioTechnicaATML70.html
"What cartridge, what exotic audiophile wonder of disc playback, was producing these marvels? What cartridge could have the "lowest distortion of all," "uncanny" resolution, better than master tapes? The answer is (I wish I could put a page turn here): The Stanton 881 Mk II.
The scene shifts. Kavi Alexander, auteur of the remarkable Water Lily Acoustics series of analogue vinyl discs, is monitoring disc production by comparing test pressings to the master tape. What cartridge is he using? Another moving magnet, this time the Technics EPC-100 mk4...
Audio-Technica AT-ML170 is very similar, and very close to the actual sound of the tape. In this comparison, he says, virtually no moving coil does so well; most have seriously apparent colorations."
* Interesting point of view from TAS magazine (back issue) article called "Assessing the State-of-the-Art in Storage Media" (Issue 40). In this, J. T. Henderson reports on a listening session comparing digital master tape, analogue master tape, direct-to-disc lacquer and the "live" mike feed; the report consists of a long conversation among J. Boyk, Keith Johnson, Doug Sax, and JTH himself.
Those people were top sound engineers if you don’t know:
"On the one hand, we have assurances from the leaders of the High End recording industry that the best Moving Magnets are very close to the Master Tape and that they are capable of "uncanny" resolution. On the other hand, we have the prevailing perception, amounting almost to a shibboleth, of the High End listening community, that only Moving Coils are realistic in some sense of that word and that Moving Magnets are incapable of sonic truth. While it is clearly beyond the scope of a single review to resolve this conflict entirely, a couple of points come to mind. In direct comparison of two "sounds", tonal balance differences show up very conspicuously. Good Moving Magnets can be very nearly neutral tonally, as well as being low in the kinds of distortion that are audibly significant. Moving Coils are low in distortion, too, but typically they are quite far from neutral tonally, with a "presence range" suck-out followed by a high frequency rise."
Their choice of monitoring cartridge during the disk mastering process was Stanton 881s mkII, Audio-Technica AT-ML170 and Technics P100c mk4. All cartridges are Moving Magnet type.
BUT not every MM cartridge of today can give you what Stanton, Audio-Technica, Technics ... top models can do!
From the post of another audiogon member about Stanton 881s:
"Relating to the Doug Sax article. I recently got into vintage reel to reel. A 4 track revox B77. A record dealer friend found me 25 7.5 ips tapes. Mostly jazz from the 50’s and early 60’s. I listened almost exclusively to these tapes for a couple weeks. Going back to my mc cartridges there was a distinctly different presentation. But switching to mm (881s) it was much closer. Most noticeable was guitar and piano. MM and even better, tape, gives a fuller, more weighted sound similar to when I hear my guitar and piano in the house. My mc cartridges are all of the more full bodied sound too. But I have to say the piano from some of these tapes was the closest to the piano downstairs that I’ve ever heard in my room. But not in the audiophile sense. The tapes don’t have the frequency extension, soundstage, and air. But wait. Neither does my piano. Or my original 1962 Stratocaster through my assorted Fender amps". -sdrsdrsdr (audiogon)
Check for some nice vintage MM and MC cartridges in my virtual system.
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Sadly Pioneer cartridges like PC-1000 mkII are not available from Pioneer anymore, it was superb design for their best turntables/tonearms.
In my opinion, after various tests in my system, the best Stanton cartridges are similar to Pioneer. Stanton like 881 and 981 are easier to find NOS.
Stanton 881s was mentioned in the same TAS article where you can read about AT-ML170. Unfortunately the link to TAS article doesn’t work anymore for me:
Confirmed in conversation with Doug Sax (RIP), the Stanton 881 mkII was the usual monitoring cartridge of Doug Sax’s legendary disc Mastering Lab. Doug Sax could buy any cartridge for his studio, but Stanton 881 mkII was his choice according to an old TAS review you read here.
Doug Sax was a mastering engineer from L.A. He mastered three of The Doors’ albums, including their 1967 debut; six of Pink Floyd’s albums, including The Wall. Doug also mastered albums for Miles Davis, Bob James, The Rolling Stones, The Who, Frank Zappa and many others. His Mastering Lab uses analog equipment designed by Sherwood. That, combined with his ears and expertise, helped Sax forge a long and successful career at The Mastering Lab. In 1970, Sax and Mayorga founded Sheffield Lab Recordings, an audiophile label which produced direct-to-disc albums.
Doug Sax is famous for DIRECT CUT (Direct-To-Disk) recording techniques. This is when a signal from the mics goes to the mixing console and to the cutter stylus (no reel to reel in between). Audiophiles raving about his Sheffield LAB direct cut albums. His monitoring cartridge was Stanton 881s (not even the best Stanton model, but close to the best models). In that TAS article many engineers claimed that MC has a lot of coloration and is not true to the sound. This is an opinion, but an opinion from very well educated sound engineers and mastering engineers with very good ears.
I saved only short notes on my computer from that TAS article:
"What cartridge, what exotic audiophile wonder of disc playback, was producing these marvels? What cartridge could have the "lowest distortion of all," "uncanny" resolution, better than master tapes? The answer is (I wish I could put a page turn here): The Stanton 881 Mk II.
The scene shifts. Kavi Alexander, auteur of the remarkable Water Lily Acoustics series of analogue vinyl discs, is monitoring disc production by comparing test pressings to the master tape. What cartridge is he using? Another moving magnet, this time the Technics EPC-100 mk4...
Audio-Technica AT-ML170 is very similar, and very close to the actual sound of the tape. In this comparison, he says, virtually no moving coil does so well; most have seriously apparent colorations."
* Interesting point of view from TAS magazine (back issue) article called "Assessing the State-of-the-Art in Storage Media" (Issue 40). In this, J. T. Henderson reports on a listening session comparing digital master tape, analogue master tape, direct-to-disc lacquer and the "live" mike feed; the report consists of a long conversation among J. Boyk, Keith Johnson, Doug Sax, and JTH himself.
Those people were top sound engineers if you don’t know:
"On the one hand, we have assurances from the leaders of the High End recording industry that the best Moving Magnets are very close to the Master Tape and that they are capable of "uncanny" resolution. On the other hand, we have the prevailing perception, amounting almost to a shibboleth, of the High End listening community, that only Moving Coils are realistic in some sense of that word and that Moving Magnets are incapable of sonic truth. While it is clearly beyond the scope of a single review to resolve this conflict entirely, a couple of points come to mind. In direct comparison of two "sounds", tonal balance differences show up very conspicuously. Good Moving Magnets can be very nearly neutral tonally, as well as being low in the kinds of distortion that are audibly significant. Moving Coils are low in distortion, too, but typically they are quite far from neutral tonally, with a "presence range" suck-out followed by a high frequency rise."
Their choice of monitoring cartridge during the disk mastering process was Stanton 881s mkII, Audio-Technica AT-ML170 and Technics P100c mk4. All cartridges are Moving Magnet type.
BUT not every MM cartridge of today can give you what Stanton, Audio-Technica, Technics ... top models can do!
From the post of another audiogon member about Stanton 881s:
"Relating to the Doug Sax article. I recently got into vintage reel to reel. A 4 track revox B77. A record dealer friend found me 25 7.5 ips tapes. Mostly jazz from the 50’s and early 60’s. I listened almost exclusively to these tapes for a couple weeks. Going back to my mc cartridges there was a distinctly different presentation. But switching to mm (881s) it was much closer. Most noticeable was guitar and piano. MM and even better, tape, gives a fuller, more weighted sound similar to when I hear my guitar and piano in the house. My mc cartridges are all of the more full bodied sound too. But I have to say the piano from some of these tapes was the closest to the piano downstairs that I’ve ever heard in my room. But not in the audiophile sense. The tapes don’t have the frequency extension, soundstage, and air. But wait. Neither does my piano. Or my original 1962 Stratocaster through my assorted Fender amps". @sdrsdrsdr
P.S. You can check some of those MM carts in my virtual system.
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Lastly, with and of these recommendations, do I need to be concerned about compliance with the stock tonearm on this new Pioneer PLX1000?
The Nags and AT I suggested will work well with your tonearm.
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Hey Reubent,
The reason for recommending the Empire 2000Z is that it's a great sounding cartridge & one of the best Empire made. That one also comes with a NOS stylus so you would be in good shape for a long time. In regard to risk when buying an old cartridge... It is certainly there. Although IME, it is less of a risk when buying from US Audio Mart or Audiogon.
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Hello All,
So, if you've recommended a cartridge, and understand cartridge loading (I don't), can you tell me if the cartridge you recommended is compatible with my Pioneer's tonearm and my Rega's phono input?
Rega Elicit-R Phono
Input 1 switch set to phono) -2mV Load 47K in parallel with 220pF
Pioneer PLX1000 Tonearm
Arm Type: Universal S-shape tonearm, Gimbal-supported Bearing Structure, Static Balance
Effective Length: 9.05"
Overhang: 0.59"
Arm Height Adjustment Range: 0.23"
Tracking Error: Within 3º
Tracking Force Range : 0 Gms to 4 Gms
Cartridge Weight Range:
Normal: 3.4 to 12.8 Grams
With Headshell: 3.4 to 6.25 Grams
Balanced weight: 0.21oz to 0.35oz
Sub weight: 0.33 to 0.45oz
Thanks, and Enjoy...
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That should work fine with the Empire 2000Z. Perhaps Chakster could chime in to confirm?
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Ordered the AT-VM740ML here early this morning via Amazon Prime and it's supposed to arrive later today. Hope it shows today as I'm experiencing some issues with the current cartridge.
Will provide an update once it's installed and has some hours on it.
Thanks for everyone's input.
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You will be very please with the 740ML. I just switched back to the 540ML on my 1200GR just for a change and I forgot how great the cartridge sounds.
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What Headshell?
So, the AT-VM740ML has broken-in nicely and is creating some great music in my system. Was planning to go back through the setup again, just to verify everything is good. Got me thinking about first buying a new/different headshell that has azimuth adjustment. Also, on the stock headshell, I'm maxed out at the full open position on the cartridge screw slots in order to get the recommended 54mm (from memory) of overhang.
Anyway, looking at the Jelco headshell that is sold through LP Gear as the Zupreme Headshell. But, they have a choice of a 10G version and the standard 12G version. Anyone know what would be best with the Pioneer PLX 1000 and AT-VM740ML combination? LP Gear says 10G "should be" correct, but the person who sent me the response from LP Gear did not exactly instill confidence.
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Another plus for Nagaoka. Compliance, while not unimportant, can be over rated. Low compliance Nags, will work perfectly on your arm.
Been there, done that...
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Beyond doubt , Nago 200 . I have all old cart mentioned .
As much as I love them , they are just that, old .
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Guys, I already have the new cartridge - Audio Technica AT-VM740ML. Current question is which new headshell? LP Gear (Jelco) Zumpreme 12G or 10G?
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Just how much difference is there among these type of headshells?
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Just how much difference is there among these type of headshells?
2 grams
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Does the weight have a sonic impact, all else being equal?
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12g is fine. I have them and use one with a VM750SH.
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@mr_m
Does the weight have a sonic impact, all else being equal?
I have no idea. However, the manufacturer produces it in 2 different weights, so there must be some reason for doing so. Just trying to figure out if 10G or 12G is optimal for the tonearm on the Pioneer PLX 1000 w/AT-VM740ML cartridge.
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