Sorry for the spelling ......meant lose not loose.
My Lampi dac has Jensen caps and I am close to trying some Duelund CAST caps. Not sure if this is the way to go or not. Has anyone compared both caps in the same Lampi unit?
The Jensen caps are rich, full bodied and so smooth with a touch of warmth. The Duelunds will be more resolving, but I wonder if I will loose the warmth? |
Wisnon, I have owned some great modified transports and compared to my current computer based front end they sounded average......knowing what I hear now. I will never go back to a spinning disc. I would loose so much. I use the Amarra built in EQ to assure a flat room response. I would loose that. This tool is awesome! I would loose the ability to improve the sound by converting files to WAV and WAV 24/88.
My digital front end, based on my experience, is far superior to any spinning CD transport I have yet encountered. The Lampi, Apple Mac mini, Amarra, Offramp/Dynamo combo is just heaven to my ears. Ya, it costs lots more than your example for sure, so it better sound good.
If I ever need a spinner your option sounds like a great, lower cost one. It does sound interesting. |
Agear, the wallwart on the unit was actually much better than a standard wart as Steve does use/make a good one. The separate Dynamo power supply is much, much better however.
I don't know the science as well as I should regarding jitter, waveform distortion and the like, but boy is my rig smoking good after these last additions! |
Grannyring,
If you buy a modded DVD player from the Lampi shop of just buy the digi-Lampizator kit 100euros and add to say a Denon DVD3910, you get astounding performance. Myself, I have just the Spdif modded Denon (no digi mod) and i disabled all the video sections, etc. Best spinner I have.
I also use a stock Duet with upograded caps and deicated LPSU and that is great.
Point is jitter is only half the story. Power (waveform distortion) is the other.
I think its too much to say low jitter is the end all and be all of good sound. Its important, yes, but not all.
Many ways to skin a cat. |
"Steve, the Ifi crew claims lower jitter specs than Offramp at a fraction of the cost (www.digitalaudioreview). Any comments?"
I don't know where they get this. Send me an iFi and i'll publish the jitter distributions of OR5 and iFi.
In the end what matters is how the device sounds when connected to a DAC, not how it measures when connected to a test system anyway.
I don't see any iFi things taking best of show at Newport or RMAF. They have their pricepoint and I have mine.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
This is what I say on every forum. The jitter of the digital source is MORE IMPORTANT than the DAC. It's true. And Empirical Audio has been developing lower and lower jitter products for more than 15 years. One could argue that any dac worth its salt should be able to process jitter much like old school engineer types who say that any well designed power supply should not need power conditioning. Steve, the Ifi crew claims lower jitter specs than Offramp at a fraction of the cost (http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2013/04/amr-ifi-announce-ilink-usb-spdif-converter/). Any comments? Transports and jitter busters aside, you can not turn the chinese dac du jour into a Lampizator 7 with jitter management....:) |
The Offramp and Dynamo together jumped the performance of my Lampi and digital front end at least 50%. Shawbros might argue with you but I believe it. Dynamo means non-chinese walwart ps? The DAC is important, very important, but what it is fed is perhaps more important. I will make a bold statement here. I bet my Lampi 4/4 with the Offramp/Dynamo sounds better than a Lampi 5,6 or 7 with no Lampi or Offramp transport. I am glad you have finally been converted. I made that same statement earlier in the thread and you actually argued with me. Your modded mini was king at the time.:) |
This is what I say on every forum. The jitter of the digital source is MORE IMPORTANT than the DAC. It's true. And Empirical Audio has been developing lower and lower jitter products for more than 15 years.
You must understand what jitter is and how it should be measured if you want to make intelligent decisions. A single RMS or even peak-to-peak jitter number is grossly insufficient. If you purchase gear based on such specs, you are making a gross error. The first flag that everyone should raise with a product is if they claim to eliminate jitter or have zero jitter. Impossible.
Jitter occurs as a Gaussian distribution of cycle-times. If you only publish one number, you don't know the shape of the Gaussian curve. It could be wide a flat or narrow and tall and still have the same RMS jitter number. The "tails" of the jitter distribution are also important. If these P-P maximums only occur every 20-30 seconds, this is totally inaudible. At Empirical Audio, we measure the jitter distribution in a histogram. We have found that narrow and tall distributions sound much better than wider, shorter distributions, even if the majority of the jitter is in the 50psec range. This makes perfect sense, since the jitter of a thin distribution is bunched in a tight range and not varying widely on average.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Agear, I would agree with you in that I would like to compare. The Offramp and Dynamo together jumped the performance of my Lampi and digital front end at least 50%.
The DAC is important, very important, but what it is fed is perhaps more important. I will make a bold statement here. I bet my Lampi 4/4 with the Offramp/Dynamo sounds better than a Lampi 5,6 or 7 with no Lampi or Offramp transport.
What I am trying to say is, if you own a Lampi dac and do not use an Offramp or Lampi interface, then you have not really heard that dac! At least you have not heard it's full cababilities. This is based on using the USB input from any computer source...and I mean any computer brand or type. |
Feed the Lampi the best signal you can and your ears will be delighted! That is why Lucas has created his own transports. It would be Interesting to compare the offramp and the USB converter from Lampi with all its flawed tube engineering....;) |
Abruce's, I just got the Dynamo power supply for the Offramp.......oh my! My Lampi never sounded this good! Trust me when I say the Offramp and Dynamo power supply will not confuse anything....you will know in a nano second how they improve the sound of your system. A nano second.
Feed the Lampi the best signal you can and your ears will be delighted! |
Wh os tyhe lucky guy that bought the L7 cash from the Show?
Would love to hear feedback from him/her!
The Hong Kong feedback has been gushing so far... |
Sounds like a plan Grannyring
Let me know what works for you, to add more confusion dont forget the Offramp |
Abruce, time for me to come over with my Dude again and instead of a preamp shoot out perhaps we now compare to the Lampy volume control? |
Knghifi, the reality is that almost everything at CES or any show is new. That is why at Friday through Sunday shows, you really should just show up on Sunday. Well said. Spoken by someone who understands the process from experience.... |
Knghifi, the reality is that almost everything at CES or any show is new. That is why at Friday through Sunday shows, you really should just show up on Sunday. |
Abruce, yes it was because the Dude preamp needed breakin. Speaker is new, Dude is new ... that's what I called excellent show preparation. So what was broken in, component rack? LOL! |
That's too bad was hoping to find out if the Dude helped the sound or was the Lamizator great on its own |
Abruce, yes it was because the Dude preamp needed breakin. |
Abruce, the did run it direct for a while and it apparently sounded very good that way. What is your preference? I will try both.
Dale needs to learn how to smile: http://www.stereophile.com/content/lampizator-and-mosaic |
It looks like the Lamp had a volume control, was it ever run direct to his amps? |
Wisnon, Computers have been using buffers/cache forever to improve performance. This is true in both hardware and software. From Lamp Web Site: Once again - how can a "stupid" computer modem sound better than reputable real CD transport ? Computers are supposed to be BAD.
I will try to explain how I see it:
Just imagine: It thakes 70 minutes for the Philips CDM2-Pro mechanism to read all data from CD disk. The same amount of data is read by DVD drive in 2 minutes. Blue Ray reads it in half minute. Hard drive reads it in 4 seconds. RAM buffer reads it in less than a second. MY LampizatOr Transport plays from own FIFO RAM Buffer.
The Data from CD must be read by a laser, which constantly needs to adjust focus, servo adjusts linear speed of motor, and track tracking. The data is demodulated from laser waves, and missing bits or errors are interpolated and corrected. Vibrations make reading difficult.
The HDD Lampizator Transport player needs nothing of that. Perfect, 100% accurate data is fed to RAM buffer and just (FIFO) - sent out to DAC according to external precision clock.
This scenario is 100 x more simple, errofr free and accurate. I am surprized that CD players play anything at all ;-) This is what I've been saying for years but Lukaz has the numbers to support it. "Perfect, 100% accurate data is fed to RAM buffer and just (FIFO) - sent out to DAC according to external precision clock." Lukaz recognizes the benefits processing from RAM so just can't imagine there is no mod to the stock SB FIFO RAM buffer. |
Kng, You are correct (I was wrong, mea culpa). While there may be local computer "buffer" its not that critical as the signal still has a ways to go to hit the Dac.
After investigations, there IS indeed a Ram buffer located in the SB-R, similar to buffers in DVD players. The buffer is very fast RAM memory and is located an inch or so away from the tube output, so a TRUE buffer, for about 4 seconds (I believe). This is the basic architecture of the SB-R and not unique to the TranspOrt.
The Squeezecentre player may also be storing info on the computer before sending via wireless or LAN cable, but would not be a true buffer, as much can happen to screw up the signal before it gets to the Dac, given the USB cable transmission and the stock SBR processing. |
Some props from Audiofederation who has historically been a demanding listener who has angered many an industry type: http://audiofederation.com/blog/categories/shows/ces-2014/ |
From Lampizator Transport web page: "MY LampizatOr Transport plays from own FIFO RAM Buffer." This is the buffer I'm asking? Does it buffer X amount or number of tracks before play starts. Without going into too much detail, I was just using JRiver, Audirvana ... as examples. |
KingHifi.
The buffering would be in the domain of the Squeezplay software engine on the host computer, similar to Audirvana/JRiver and that info is in the public Domain. The SBR is just the streamer/Dac and the Lampizator treatement paradigm is to discard the feeble Dac function and to enhance the digital pass thru by reclocing, improving components and Power supply, as well as to square up the digital wave via the use of the digilampizator.
The TranspOrt is NOT the same as the USB/SPdif converter...there seems to be some confusion here.
Tbg, hello, long time no speak. The speakers were not properly set up and broken in until late Friday, i am told...then it started impressing mightily. Previous skeptics have broken out their checkbooks, I am told. Finally, I have a Lampi DSD-only dac and I can attest to the fact that properly recorded 128 stuff is sublime! |
I visited the Lampizator suite every day. By Friday I was very impressed with the L7's character, but I didn't like the overall sound. I thought the room was way too small and the speakers questionable. I had never really paid much attention to the various Lampizator models, but I think I prefer the L7.
It was only after I heard high hat on it that I was satisfied that it was full range. I am hoping to get a better listen to it in my system.
I seem to have very dissimilar tastes to many here. With quad dsd on the horizon and double dsd now available, I don't think vinyl as normally heard is the standard anymore. Sony is going to put all of its master tapes on quad dsd. This represents about forty percent of the master tapes in the world. Digital in this form will soon be the standard. I have heard double dsd and it is really real sounding. I can only imagine what quad dsd will sound like.
I must say that quad dsd is going to require new dac chips and solutions on how to get it to the dac from the drive. |
+1 with brand new Lampizator L4 G4
Dear Users,
Do you have any experience with Lampizator USB board? How does is cooperate with Mac Mini? Or is it better to use usb-> spdif converter ?
Thank you for you help |
I am not sure the buffer size used by the Squeezebox driven TranspOrt. Its never been an issue with a wired or even wireless connection in my experience, but I will do some digging in case people with latency issues in their home networks have questions. It's a performance issue and not just latency. All computer buffers to enhance performance. Bryston BDP, Audirvana, JRiver ... they all buffers at least 1st track before play. If you ask Lukasz about buffering he will understand. I'm interested how much his transport buffers before play. |
Getting back to the subject of LampizatOr, I am not sure the buffer size used by the Squeezebox driven TranspOrt. Its never been an issue with a wired or even wireless connection in my experience, but I will do some digging in case people with latency issues in their home networks have questions.
In the meantime, perhaps starting another thread for miscellaneous topics is appropriate? There is some good information getting buried in the off topic conversation. |
In looking over some things I find myself revisiting Gordon Rankin's Crimson and Cosecant USB DAC designs. Some nice work from one of the pioneers of computer audio. |
Andrew, I heard the Laminar streamer in it's infancy about 3 years ago at RMAF. It certainly has some promise, and I thought it sounded good going through a DAC 2004. However, I fear it will be grossly overpriced given the technology used. In fact at this point I am still not certain it is a finished product. I think they had one at the NY show recently and had it covered up.
I have been using a Lessloss DAC for 6 years now and find it is still hard to beat. Multi-bit DAC chips (alas nearly all are 1-bit now) and direct coupled at the output, as well as battery power on the output stage. It is well designed. Their concept of mating it with a CEC TL-51X in order to use the 256f clock output of the DAC to slave the CEC to it made a lot of sense.
With the Laminar they are taking the approach that the clock in the streamer is more important. Personally I think it's a marketing move as the DAC 2004 is no longer manufactured and they want sell streamers for use with any DAC. I believe there is also some debate about other aspects of the design and saw some comments Gordon Rankin made regarding the design approach.
In my current configuration my DAC is slaved to the clocks in the Audiophilleo USB converter that I use. While I think the sound is very good. I still wonder what I might gain if I can find a middleware solution that would allow me to slave it to the DAC. The solutions I have encountered so far use a PLL which is not necessarily optimal but gets the job done.
Keep an eye on SOtM. They were at CES and I heard their sever/DAC in the ESS Labs room. Very good and well built. I think over time they will be a leader in computer audio. |
Bill, Tony is correct. Middleware. There is a little redundancy in your planned experiment although it would be interesting to hear the comparison. I am sure it can be arranged....:)
Tony have you heard the new Lessloss Laminar streamer? An audio buddy heard a prototype in California and was impressed. Lessloss thinking regarding digital has always made sense to me.... |
Thanks Clio09. Ya, your comments seem correct. I will have to compare 88.2 files to 96. Many have said 88.2 sounds best. |
Bill, click on this link and scroll past the photos. http://lampizator.eu/szop/szopproducts/LZ-TRANSPORT/Lampizator%20transport.htmlYou will see two sections, one called Example of System Set-up and one called Example of New System. The latter describes use with a MacMini. This should give you a good idea of what is involved. Basically the Lampizator transport is middleware like the Offramp. Just some different methods to connect everything together and from what I can tell only handles 24/96. IIRC, someone on this thread was mentioning Sample Manager as a software tool to convert bit depth and resample rates using Izotope. I just cloned my library and converted anything 16/44.1 to 24/88.2. Now I just play the files natively in JRiver bypassing their SRC. So far so good with the results. |
Amen to the TRL Samson amps. Just great SS amps and known by very few unfortunately. Mated with the Dude you have something very special.
I heard that combo with the Lampi dac in a fellow Agoner's system and it was just awesome! |
Berony, does the Lamp Transport cache/buffer data before play? A track? whole CD?
Lukasz knows his stuff. In his Lamp Transport page, he clearly explains why computer audio is superior to cd player and without saying, IF executed correctly. |
The direct USB input from my Mini was no match for the Offramp into my Lampi spdif input. Not even close. The difference was so stark I cannot even imagine a different outcome. I use a modified Mac Mini.
I am confused with the Lampi transport I must admit. On the Lampi site Lucas calls it essentially a converter to spdif. Those were his own words in the very beginning of the article on the transport.
Do I still need my Mac Mini or with the Lampi transport can I sell it? The Offramp is simple as it just connects to the Mac mini by USB and to my Lampi with spdif.
Perhaps someone can list the order of gear with arrows when using the Lampi transport/converter device. I know I am not the only Aphile confused on this piece. It would help us all. |
What's wrong with flat? To me that means no artificial emphasis of any frequency. You want emphasis or de-emphasis get an equalizer or something with tone controls. The TADs let you hear exactly what is coming from the source through your associated electronics. Not what everyone likes to hear though. I will admit TADs are unforgiving, but like JWM felt all the rooms I heard them in sounded very good. Nothing like judging for yourself.
BTW - Andrew Jones held court one evening at the TAD reception. Amazing guy and quite a history. Not sure how but we quickly morphed from a discussion about speakers to classic cars. |
Not true the TAD's sounded great in all their rooms. |
I heard mixed reviews of the TAD rooms. The word flat was bandied around. Not up to their normal standards. It would be news if there was no mixed reviews. When is there ever consensus in this hobby? Since there are many familiar with TRL in this thread, I just want to share how well Paul's SS amp stacks up against the BIG ticket competition. There's nothing for me to add on TAD. It's heavily reviewed by professionals and owners. The transport is a highly modified Squeezebox DUET with a tube rectified PSU and a tube SPIDF output Spec indicates 24/96, still based on Duet? Duet only supports 24/88.2. Maybe SB Touch? |
Many members on this thread are familar with TRL Samson ... TRL SS sound. It doesn't sound like SS or tubes but just music. I tell ya, it's a superb match with the TAD E1. [quote]Almost sold them last year and turns out the problem was my old EW Andra II. It's too bad Paul doesn't market his stuff.[quote] Amen to all that. The Samsons are extraordinary SS amps. High bandwidth, effortless, without any traces of SS glare, strain, or compression. I owned them for 4 years and sold them simply due to the audiophile itch.... |
Wisnon,
The Lamp 7 uses the level 5 power supply and the level 6 circuit. The implementation of the DHT tube is true brilliance in my opinion, low power DHT are capable of splendid natural sound. I absolutely love the 300b but the very good versions of this tube are expensive and you don't need their higher power output for a DAC application. I'd go with the 2A3 or the 45 tube and can't imagine how someone couldn't be thrilled with the fabulous realism they'd have. I think the level 7 is pure genius in concept and execution. DAC chip directly coupled to the DHT grid no resistor or capacitor in the way, then Duelund CAST output coupling capacitors. No
stupid OP-amps with their tag along NFB! Like I said previously, Lukasz is
one very smart man.
Charles,
Charles, |
Hopefully Lukasz still makes the SB Transport, as I keep hearing good things about it. My own Duet is modded with better caps and is fed by a dedicated LPSU built into my L4, but the clock upgrade and digilampi section, plus the i2S internal implementation apparently takes it to another level entirely.
Later this year I will likely take the plunge. |
Anyone here got to hear the Lampi/Intuitive room on Friday when the FINALLY got all the kinks out and the sound came into its own?
My feedback is the L7 move to the King of the line position and the Dale speakers finally showed their true worth!
I heard L7 is already sold and the level is backordered until Feb at least. Hong Kong and the US are the demand leaders. |
OK, getting REALLY back on topic (talk of other rooms and amps are entertaining, but faaar off topic) can we speak about differences in the L7 to other more known levels?
Is the L7 based on the L5 or L6 circuit? What are the major design differences? I have seen the ga-ga Hong Kong feedback online and in some emails, so this has piqued my curiousity.
Retail for the L7 should be around $10K in the US, no?
What about DHT tube choice, ie 300b, 2A3, or 45 Triodes? There is talk on another forum that the NOS 45s have the advantage of being plentiful and cheap in the marketplace. Is this so? |
I heard mixed reviews of the TAD rooms. The word flat was bandied around. Not up to their normal standards.
On another note, it looks like hires wireless streaming is here and was present at CES:
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/bluesound-audiophile-sonos-killer
http://www.bluesound.com/our-story
Former NAD engineers are behind this....finally. |
I'm the North American co-distributor for Lampizator and I would like to clear up some confusion. We make a USB converter ( converts USB to SPIDF) and a SPIDF transport ( aka the Digilampizator ). Two different products. The transport is a higly modified Squeezebox DUET with a tube rectified PSU and a tube SPIDF output. The tubed SPIDF allows us to output a perfect sinewave to our DACS. It is a cinch to setup, much easier then any turntable. I had a mac mini previously but sold it once I heard the Digilampizator transport.
Me and Fred ( Gopher )admittedly had weather related problems getting all our gear to the show on time. Not until Friday did we have what I thought was exceptional sound quality. Can't please all the people all the time, but we are very happy that we pleased many nonetheless.
|
Many members on this thread are familar with TRL Samson ... TRL SS sound. It doesn't sound like SS or tubes but just music. I tell ya, it's a superb match with the TAD E1. It's competitive with all MORE expensive SS amps I've demoed. Along with my VAC SigMKIIa, I wonder how it stacks up to Zesto and Concert Fidelity?? Look forward to the Newport Beach Show in May snd check them out.
Almost sold them last year and turns out the problem was my old EW Andra II. It's too bad Paul doesn't market his stuff. |
JWM, I actually enjoyed the presentation of the Cessaro's better from the upper listening position. Same with the TAD in our room. Not that the lower level was bad, but after listening to music non-stop for 8 to 10 hours a day it's nice to get a little further back from the sound.
Bruce Edgar is a friend of ours and we have a couple sets of his speakers lying around. Preference is to sit a little further back and no toe-in. His speakers can really push some air.
Back to the original topic. I can see why Bill prefers the Offramp. I have to say I much prefer having a USB converter as the interface rather than going direct into the USB input, but in my case I bypass the SPDIF cable altogether and just plug the device into the digital input. One less cable to get in the way. |
