Conflict of interest alert: I own two Durand tonearms; a Telos and a Talea.
To clear up some of the unintended misinformation on this thread...
a. The new composite Telos armwand is not an upgrade; it is an option.
b. The composite armwand does not use a mounting plate.
c. The sapphire cartridge mounting plate is only used with wooden Telos armwand.
d. The sapphire bearing column for the Telos is an upgrade. As to the cost, I believe the earlier comment "It better not be worth the money or I will leave depressed" nicely summarizes.
For those who have expressed disdain for the "back scratchers" and "wooden spoons", I am sorry that your experience the tonearms was disappointing. So that the community could learn from your expertise, please share more about your audition experience, i.e. system context, LP's used to audition, etc. Thank you in advance. |
Hi,
Just to make sure that no mis-information is spread:
The armwands on the LT arm are still made out of wood. And so is the headshell, albeit both undergo different treatment procedures to make them impervious to changes in humidity.
As for the thermal "stability" of wood vs. other materials often used for armwands, please see here:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/linear-expansion-coefficients-d_95.html
As you can see, wood(direction of grain/untreated fir in this case, other woods are in the same ballpark) has a tec that is an order of a magnitude lower than aluminum and is similar to aluminum when measured perpendicular to the orientation of the grain.
I've been using "composite" armwands on the No.2 arms, and seldomly(upon request) on Ref. arms. Two or more layers of different woods, sometimes in conjunction with Delignit or high tech polymers qualify as a composite too(in my book anyway)
And yes, a lot of high end gear is overpriced, - but not all of it.
Have a relaxed sunday,
Frank Schröder |
Jazzdoc
Well said. I thought this was a tongue in cheek, mildly humorous take on a 35k arm that no one has heard. My contribution was intended in similar jest. It appears that some Agoners have had "bad" experience with the Durand tonearms. It would be useful to provide a context with details of ownership, system\matching equipment etc. System pics would also be useful.
Disclosure : I am a delighted owner of a Talea2 for 4+ years.
Have a great weekend
Pradeep |
I'm with syntax as well! Next year if not earlier the price may go down more than half-way I figure. |
Hi,
@ Peterayer: Just to make sure that there is no mis-information spread:
Both armwands and headshells on the LT arms are made out of wood, albeit treated differently to make them impervious to humidity changes and otherwise improve their physical properties.
Some general info for those who consider wood unsuitable for armwands:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/linear-expansion-coefficients-d_95.html
As you can see, the TEC of wood(here fir, untreated, along the grain; other wood species are in the same ballpark)is an order of a magnitude lower than aluminum, even perpendicular to the grain, they are comparable.
Although the headshells on LT arms can hardly be called "composite" headshells, I did use composites on No.2 and Ref. arms, incl. combinations of Delignit, phenolic impregnated silk or paper, different types of wood glued together or less well known high tech polymers.
The use of such materials vs. metals alone is no guarantee for a neutral/accurate tonearm, but properly implemented, they allow for building highly precise and non-resonant structures.
Does such a tonearm "sound" good, aka, does it have as small a sonic signature as possible? Many other factors at play, ultimately it is up to the customer to decide...
And yes, many high end products are overpriced, - but not all of them.
All the best,
Frank Schröder
P.S.: I tried to post essentially the same response a day ago, but it didn't show up til now, hence this, second attempt. I apologize should this lead to a douple posting. |
What is odd to me is that the OP started a thread about a $35K tonearm marketed by the previous guru of Roksan, and about which none of us know anything, apart from its cost. Then the venom was directed largely at Durand tonearms for the sin of being "expensive" and made of wood. Yet the Durand tonearms cost much less than $35K (even apparently with the latest and greatest upgrades on a Telos) and have a highly favorable track record already among thoughtful audiophiles. Could it be that certain harsh critics with ulterior motives were lying in the weeds waiting for a chance to snipe at Durand?...... Nah. But not impossible to believe, for reasons which should be obvious to any veterans of the Audiogon Analog forum.
Let's keep in mind that, if one is affiliated with a company making a all-metal tonearm that is price competitive with the Telos, it would be good strategy to dump on the Telos (and Schroeder tonearms) for being made of wood. |
I started this thread 5 months ago thinking someone might be familiar with, or has heard this arm. I'm a little surprised it doesn't already have a glowing endorsement from Tone magazine, the marketing queen of the industry.
The Durand arms, while not as overpriced, are a little expensive? Seems to me price is based on relative performance and the Vertere arm should be almost twice as good. That's assuming the Durand arm is worth $19.5K.
What about the ViV Rigid Float, anyone familiar? The arm has no offset. The cantilever is inline with the pivot which eliminates most torsional affects on the cantilever. The tradeoff is increased alignment error. The arm has some endorsements from presumably respectable reviewers. There are 3 models of different length, all under $5K.
Regards, |
They used to make boats out of Wood , not any more. Seen a few wood tonearms many years back. Where are they now? They don't even use Wood for park benches anymore. |
Jeb, Now please make a cogent argument against wood tonearms, if that is your position. Your arguments by analogy are nonsensical. And if you did not read any of the previous posts, you may not know that Reed, Durand, Schroeder, Pete Riggle, and several others DO currently make and sell wood tonearms.
And those plastic park benches suck, by the way. Nothing like a splinter up your arse to let you know you are in a park. Central Park in NYC still has 100% wood benches for your sitting pleasure. |
Wood is just another material. Plastic is used in everywhere and yet nobody complains about it. There many other topics to talk about, such as bearing, wiring, geometry, etc... I'm with Lew, if you can't come up with a good argument, just move on to, say, a $35K tonearm?
.
|
06-30-14: Lewm
Jeb, Now please make a cogent argument against wood tonearms, if that is your position. Your arguments by analogy are nonsensical. And if you did not read any of the previous posts, you may not know that Reed, Durand, Schroeder, Pete Riggle, and several others DO currently make and sell wood tonearms.
+1 |
@Berlinta, Frank, thank you for correcting my error. I looked at photos of an LT arm in Texas and it did not appear to be wood. Neither did the headshell. I must be mistaken. My apologies. I appreciate your contribution to this forum. |
