My system is bright? I need help. thanks

Think you've answered your own problem. Since you've got good results with your previous gear in the same room, it is obvious that your current ultra-revealing electronics have too much of a good thing. You didn't get any brightness in your previous setup because the Grand Pianos are warm and forgiving speakers, and can still sound acceptable to you in the same room. You should have upgraded just the speakers, probably to Cremona instead of revamping your whole system, but then that's history.

I would suggest not being hasty in making any decisions at the moment and stay put for the time being. Placing your system in an unfinished room, especially on concrete floor is a disaster. Since you already have the basement in planning, why don't wait till it's finished then shift your whole setup in that room? Evaluation in a proper room would be the best. Basics had to be addressed before moving on to other things, and if it still sounds bright after that then figure out what to do next from there. More planning is certainly necessary for your *expensive* equipment.

Guys. thanks to all of you. My problem is the room too. Although i had sonus faber drand piano in this roon they were so great, it is when i got the andra and the new gear as an upgrade, an expensive upgrade that i ran in to all these problems.

the wall infrom of me and the wall to my right, these 2 walls making the right angle are problem, there is no left wall as it is the entrance.

the front wall. from left to right, you are facing it

1-wet bar: 4 feet wide, 1.5 ft deep and 2 feet high.
2- a 1.5 foot space, only the wall. infront is the left andra 1.5 feet from the wall
3- gear cabinet: 5 feet wide, 1.5 ft deep 1 foot hight.
4- an empty area where there is only the wall for about 4 feet until you meet the wooden built in cabinet of the right wall. in this space is the right andra 1.5 ft away from the wall and next to it is the definitive teeh super cube 1 close to the wall.
both adra are fewinches away from the gear cabinet.
as you can see for the left speaker i can't move it side ways as it bounded by the wetbar and the geart cabinet ican pull it way forward but it will be in the way. i have more freedom with the right andra.

the right wall is a hube wall to wall wooden unit with a granite fireplace in the center.

my sofa were i listen is right infron the gear cabinet about 8 feet or more.
between both andras about 5-6 feet.

u hope this will give you an idea about the room

I HAVE ROOM IN THE BASEMENT BUT IT IS NOT FINISHED SO THE FLOOR IS CONCRETE AND THE GEAR WILL ACCUMULATE DUST VERY FAST. YOU THINK I CAN TAKE THIS SYSTEM DOWN. I MAY FREEZE IN THE WINTER, I CAN GET A HEATRE OR SOMETHING. BUT WHAY ABOUT THE DUST AND SPEAKER. THEY WILL BE ANTIQUE IN A YEAR OR 2. THE GOOD NEWS THE BASEMENT IS DRY AND NOT HUMID. LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK GUYS.ANY BODY HAD AN EXPERINCE WITH EXPENSIV EGEAR IN UNFINISHED BASEMENT.

do you get the picture.
thanks

Tvad, you've summed it up nicely. Speaker positioning is not the only issue he didn't get optimum sound from his system. He didn't have a dedicated room and most importantly there is little or no provisions made to room treatments as brought up earlier in the thread, which is the single most important parameter that can make or break a system. We don't know about his room acoustics nor can we make any accurate judgements based on pictures alone. I believe since he cannot improve on these, he had no choice but to resort to other alternatives as what he's been currently doing. Well, at least there are some perceived improvements now and hope he don't go burning too much holes in his pockets along the process.

I would sell my cd and find something else to do.
Seriously.

I got the AZ interconnects and tried them all day.
I did not feel a lot of difference between the two except that the silver is a little more detailed.

HOWEVER, IT IS BY FAR MUCH ,MUCH,MUCH BETTER THAN THE NORDOST IN MY SYSTEM. GUYS FOR THE FIRST TIME I COULD LISTEN FOR MORE THAN 7 HOURS TOTAL . i TRIED ALL THE CDS THAT WERE HARSH TO MY EAR ESPESCAILLY THE RIGHT EAR WHERE I THINK I AM GETTINF SOME REFLECTION FROM THE WOODEN UNIT AND THE GRANITE FIREPLACE. ALL OF THEM SOUNDED GOOD.

THRE HIGHS ARE MUCH NICER, I DON'T WANT TO SAY MUFFLED, THEY ARE THERE BUT NOT IN MY EAR ANY MORE.

SO AFTER HOOKING THE AMP DIRECTLY TO THE OUTLET THIS WAS A GOOD MOVE.
NEXT IS THE POWER
I AM EXPECTING SHYUNYATA HYRA, I WILL TRY IT FOR THE AMP AND THE CD PLAYER, HERE IS MY PLAN

I WILL SAVE SOME MONEY FOR I GOT BIG HOLES IN MY POCKET NOW

I WANT TO GET THE SHUNYATA ANACONDA FOR THE POWER AMP
SHYNYATA PYTHON HELIX ALPHA TO THE HYDRA 2 AND PYTHON Vx TO THE CD PLAYER.
I MAY CALL THE ELECTRICIAN TO INTALL HOSPITAL GRADE 20 AMP WALL OUTLET. THE ONE I HAVE MY BE POOR QUALITY

WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT THIS BUDGET KILLING PLAN. iF THIS DOES NOT WORK, I WILL SELL MY CD AND FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO, JUST KIDDING

did you get your AZ interconnect cables yet?

I tried a lot of things. i did move them apart it helped a little bit but the sound changed. Here are the main things i tried recently.

1-the amp directly into the wall: the best result so far.
2- i switched to my denon dvd 5910. it has an audio direct where it shuts the dvd off even the screen is off.you will be surprised that it sounded warmer and fuller. it was not as transparent. it sounded close to the krell standard which i tried on my system. i can listen for 3 hours without fatigue.
so before giving up on the MF sacd i will try everything first, interconnects, hydra 2, power cords.
thanks

Its a device that would work well on your power amp, I would still regenerate sources. FYI the Shunyata Taipan power cord was brash on the high end in my system(on the CDP). Richard Grays were much better and smoother. They are both around $800 retail.

ET

Dear Et

Thanks for your input. where does the shunyata hydra fit in this?
thanks

A regenerator takes the incoming AC converts it to DC, cleans it and then convertsit bak to adjustable AC. Adjustable in that you can vary the frequency from 60-120hz (I like 120 hz best on my CDP) and wave type sine,suare, mixed etc. This is avaiable on PS Audio power plants and maybe others too I don't know. I think there is no one doeas all. I like the power plant for sources and preamps only. The P-300 or 500 willdo this fine. It is pricy. By the time you buy that and good cords and then something for your high consumtion devices (amps etc.) you will have invested a lot. Do it in stages. Also do it with dealers that loan for home demo before you buy.

ET

ET

While I think the Silver Ref MkII are excellent cables, in your case, and I already said that before, the Matrix will most likely be the one. Since you are going cd->integrated without any preamp, Silver in that configuration may be out of place.
Try Hydra2 or the new Guardian. Also try the solid state output stage of your cd player into your integrated, just to see if you omit the hiss

Dear Audiophile 1

Thanks for you valuable advice . I will consider most if not all of it. I just try combinations of things, since I lack experience. So all the set up was my own design.

I will try to get a hydra 2 although it is a discontinued model, but i think it is good.

I ll move all the home theater and only the home theater to the avs 2000. AVS 2000 is not a surge supressor, and does not offer protection. that is why i am using the htp 5100 with it. this what monster recommends.

I will plug the amp either directly to the wall or try the hydra.I will get a new power cord
also i am waiting for acoustic zen matrix II and silver reference II RCAs so i wiil try them also
i am not sure about the cello, i may be able ot try it, althought it may not have enough power i believe it is 200 w for each monblock, i l check on that.

thanks for you advice.

Scientist73,

Cello made high quality and expensive products. Probably very few here have ever heard them, and even fewer with the Eggleston speakers. I'd take odds that no one has! Don't buy them unless YOU hear them first with your speakers in your home! Also bear in mind that you may need at sometime service on these amps. Will you be able to get it?

May I suggest that you do something simple. Start a new thread and ask folks who have Egglestons Andrea's what they are using as amps and pay attention to their sonic preferrences so you can see if their value system matches yours.

Good luck.........

Scientist, you have daisy chained your surge protectors.
Besides that you are degrading the performance of your gear by plugging it all into the HTS5100, you also managed to plug that unit into a cheaper, powerbar type surge protector. Has anyone recommended this configuration or you just came out with it on your own? I don't mean to sound rude, but with the level of equipment you're running, what possessed you to configure it this way?

IMHO,
1) Your amplifier should be run into the wall directly.
If you want to use power line conditioner, you have to get one of the units that don't restrict current, such as Shunyata Hydra2. But if it's a dedicated circuit, run the amp straight into wall.

2) Your CD player can be plugged into another Hydra2 unit and both Hydra2 units can be plugged into the same duplex outlet.

3) If you want AC regenerator, there are few popular ones - Exactpower, PS Audio

4) Get good power cords. Affordable on the used market that works good with digital gear is Audience powerChord. For your amp you will need something beefier, for example Shunyata Taipan Alpha.

And get your audio gear out of those Monster units.
For your AV gear, even the AVS2000 will suffice.
You don't need HTS5100, especially when you plug it into the AVS2000.

And if the Cello amps are being sold by a family friend, why not borrow these and try in your set up?

Using 6112 tube pre-amp section in the KW integrated into the Cello amps is not the answer. You need a "real" tube pre-amp to tame down the KW SACD player.

Cello amplifier(monoblocks)

Througha family friend i hav a chance to buy 2 cello monblocks at a reasonable price.
I never heard of cello before is it a good one. he told me it was founded by Mark Levinson. The amps were baught in 1996. I am getting more details on them.
would this be a good choice for the andra and the kw 500 which i am going to use as a preamp only for the tubes in it.

and is it a good amp to buy? he told me that these worth $40000 in 1996. I guess it should be good , but after i learned the lesson with my gear, i ask and get a lof opinions before spending more money.

thanks

Dear ET
When you say regenerated power what exactly did you use. This who power conditioners and regeration is new ot me as part of the high end audio. i thought of protection only. now i need a very good conditioner/ protector/regenerator. is there something that does the three good? i am not sure
thanks

I have an MF Trivista SACD tubed player. It took a while to get the harshness out. It took a very good power cord, regenerated AC, and the right interconnects. PS Audio noise harvesters really helped clean the AC of junk that the components themselves put back into the line. That MF amp you have is a bit bright for my taste. Tame it with the right power cord, the stockers don't cut it on either piece of gear. Room tuning will help but if its bad enough now that you get fatigue after a short while thats not the room in my opinion. By all means improve the room but the room can't be the problem in my opinion. Bad power can be. Many people overlook how much noise gear puts back in the line. You either need an isolation transformer on every piece of gear or a noise harvester in my experience to keep the line cleanest. Too bad huh? You figure you spend that kind of $ andit should be enough. My experience it isn't no matter whos gear you have. Good luck!

ET

well right now i have the kw 500 hooked directly into the wall and the kw sacd is hooked into monster hts 5100 that hooked to monster avs 2000 that is attached to the same dedicated line.

your suggestion is to pug that monster with the cd player into another outlet, like the 15 amp home outlet next to it.

i ll try it. thanks

Scientist73, it should not be surprising that removing your previous line conditioner actually improved your sonics.

Now that you can hear that not all line conditioners are necessarily good or created equal, you might consider looking for 'proper' line conditioning.

I would like to strongly suggest staying away from surge suppressors or line conditioners that offer surge suppression.

Among other things, you'd be amazed at how proper line conditioning on all components will, among other things, remove all negative sibilance (except that which is imbedded in the recording itself).

As for your hissing problem, I would have suggested it would be your preamp, but since you have an integrated, I have to assume it's coming from there or...

If your digital cd player is not on a different circuit/line I would suggest trying that because you want to keep the AC of the digital source as far away as possible (electrically, not geographically) so as to minimize the bi-directional digital noise injected back into the AC in the wall and potentially making its way back to the service panel and into other circuits. Another good reason for proper line conditioning because a proper line conditioner should be able to provide bi-directional filtering and most do not.

This too could be contributing to the unusually loud pink noise you're hearing.

-IMO

oh, and you know what else to try....try switching from tube out stage to solid state on cd player then see if the hiss persists/keeps on increasing with volume on your integrated.

Scientist73, I have no idea what is wrong. But in my opinion, the amount of hiss you're getting should not change with different volume settings(although I am not familiar with MF equipment, normally, hiss is not an issue). MF equipment is tubed, so some hiss I guess is normal. The only thing I can think of that's causing the hiss to go up in volume with volume increase on your amp, is that your CD player hisses and the amp just amplifies this hiss. In this case, you won't get rid of it unless you change your cd player.
And by "there" I mean in general, in your set up and not the wall outlet. outlets don't hiss. Power cord will not cure it. I mentioned Shunyata Hydra2 because you were interested in surge protection, which you will get with Hydra. And also because Hydra is a passive unit(no transformers), it should do a fine job by not presenting any kind of barrier for a current flow into your amplifier.

I ma sorryprevious message was for audiophile1. mya be i should not write anything at work. thanks

Dear listener57

Please clarify , you mean by "there" the outlet in the wall. the hissing is exactly like the hiss of the old tapes wihout the dolby NR on. it igoes up with thvolume at low volumes there is non yo turn the volume you get it. it is there with or without music.

I am not sure a always thought power cords are like snake oil becasue the current is the current what will change. I guess i may change my mind.

try Shunyata Hydra2. only plug your amp there. But the wall outlet should not be hissing. There's something wrong going on.

Great news
Last night i pulled the rack out, i pulled the amp out of the panamax and plugged it into the 20 amp circuit directly. i have never done that before.

I have never listened to my system before untill this moment. about 80 % of the brightness is gone. I knew there is something exraordinarly wrong. The sound became so smoooooooooooooooth and warm. the highs went back, way back and i got a balanced sound.

then i tried to plug it to 15 amp monster avs 2000 i use for my home theater . i got the same good result but the details and the bass were dowm, i could tell the difference.
i added the monster hts 5100 surge protector to the avs 2000 the brightness showed again.
the power is the main porblem the amp is not doing well with all the surge protectors i have
the problem with wall outlet there is is slight shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i can hear when the music is silent and when ther is no music and i turn the volume up i hear a very clear and loud shhhhhhhhhhhh. i do not hear that with any of the three surge protectors or power generators.
is it safe to keep an expensive amp hooked directly to the outlet.?
i tried positioning the speakers again it is a different story now. i can play loud, i went to half the volume my ears were fine. this amp is so musical i could hear little tunes between the other tones i originally could hear in the other set up, such surfacing tunes and details made it so musical. i got the balance i want. even most of the SSSSSSSSS disappeared except for patricia barber and some nat kin cole songs,.i can live with that

now how on earth can such a switch make such a difference in the quality of sound, i am talking about a rebirth of an amp. i am not an expert but i know it is all about power after all.but to that extent!!!!!!!!!
i am now between a choice of unsafe, happy listening with unclean power or compromised listening with surge protcetion.

the ultimate is to get a superb 20 amp surge protector or conditioner.

thanks a gain and sorry to confuse you

Historical note - The Quad of England preamps used to have an elaborate set of adjustable tone controls with one of the effects available being to select a shelf-like uniform decrease in the high frequency range: ------------------__________________
Although this was not a true equalizer,
it was very useful in the original heyday of the vinyl LP to help make the high frequency range in recordings uniformly less aggressive.
With the advent of CD "perfect sound forever" the use of such a circuit became virtually extinct in home high end stereo preamplifiers.
This would still represent a quick and useful temporary solution for many systems, although it could not be considered ideal. The modern preamp designers might be able to resuscitate this type of defeatable, shelf-like, tone control. The perception of high frequency brightness, or glare, is definitely a prominent topic of discussion on Audiogon.
During the sometimes lengthy process of trying to achieve ideal high frequency reproduction, why not allow the listener an option to "fake it 'til you make it"?

it might be worth a shot to try an equalizer to achieve a presentation that you are comfortable with. you might observe the adjustments you make to determine where the peaks are. this will not tell you the source of the problem but may be a way to eliminate the frequency imbalance.

you could instead use a good quality spectral analyzer, with the microphone at the listener positionto uncover frequency imbalnces and then decide how to get rid of them.
an equalizer is one of several solutions to your problem.

Scientist73,
Why wouldn't you consider replacing the KW 500 amplifier with one that mates better with your speakers? You mentioned the MC402, which happens to be in the same price range as you could expect to get for your KW 500. You could then either stick with the same CDP and use a pair of attentuators, or get a CDP that has an internal volume control (RA Opus 21, Wadia, Audio Aero Capitole, etc...) at least until you possibly decided to try out some preamps. The brightness would be gone, and you wouldn't be out any additional money.

FWIW, I've heard the a pair of Von Schweikert VR4Sr's with three different amp/CDP combinations. Only with the MF combo that you have did it sound exactly as you have described.

Just something to think about as you tango with your Andras. :-)

Scientist73, Perhaps its just me, but I would suggest that, as you originally suggested, a diagram would be wonderful.

The room has a thin kind of carpet,not thich and fluffy. the windows have paper like material blinds on them.
thanks

Tvad, You are right of course.

Other than to ask the manufacturer/designer of the specific speaker what the minimum recommended listening distance was, the only way you can find out is to move your speakers and sweet seat about and you have tried all of the possible set up possibilities.

The best one can do, absent the ability to actually listen to the speaker, or talk to the manufacturer, is make an educated guess. You will note in my comment I specifically said "I doubt" and I gave some simple reasons for my "doubts". I have other reasons as well, but they only rise to the level of an educated guess as well.

However, the purpose of the comment, and this conincides, I believe, with the spirit of your rebuke, was to get Scientis73, to look at other options beside nearfield listening and buying new equipment, of any type, prematurely.

Scientist73, Most of the folks on this forum accept E-Mails. I suggest you send an E-Mail to each of the persons you would like to hear from and include your diagram as an attachment. Just click on the members moniker.

Ain't this fun!..........

Sorry guys about the typos. iwas at work and i had no time to review it. my apology

my family room :

rectangular, with catherdral ceiling the longitudinal axis of the ceiling is along the long side of rectangle.
you enter throug a 3 foot opening and there is step down into the room, dtep is about 5 inches.

when standing after the step you back to the entracne(you have not walked in the room at all you are along the long axis of the rectange measuring about 20 feet and perpendicular to the shor dimension measring about 16-17 feet
right to your left is wet bar measuring H 31 x L 50 depth 36 inches. there is another acinet aboive it on the wall .
after the wet bar there is 1.5 by 1.5 foot cgap between the bar and salamander cabinet. the left andra lives infront or inside this gap if i get it very close to the wall.(this is like a 3 sided box). then the gear cabint L 66, hight 21 depth 22 inches. above it is center speaker and plasma on the wall. after the cabinet comes a larger gap unitll we reach the built in wall unit, made mainly od wood. cabinets and shleves. This gap is about 4-4.5 feet. there live s the right andra close to the cabinet and a definitive tech super cube 1 between the andra and the cabinet. The right is andra is kind of between the cabinet and this sub if i push it back.
The wall unit takes he whole wall it is right infornt of you. in the middle is solid wood wall between the 2 cabinets underneath which is a granite fireplace with glass doors.
to your righ i a wall that comprises 2 huge windows that take most of this 16-18 foot wall. there 2 foot gap between the windows and another one foot gap between the second window and the wall on your righ which is knee wass about 2.5 -3 feet high.
you are still at the entrance to your right are 2 fabric chairs with with 16 x 31 stone table between them and small ottoman infront the table
a leather sofa for 3 person back againt the windows, the center of the sofa is at the center of the gap between the 2 windows which is the at the center of the plasma screeen and the cabinet. this sofa is 3-4 inches from the wall.
right next to sofa on it's right, is a recliner tilter so it faces the TV, it's back partially faces the mindow and partially the built in cabinet in the wall.
infornt of the sota, right in the midde, and one foor waway from is a huge stome cocktail table measuring 2 feet by 3.5 feet and 1.5 feet high. the stone is not marble it is partially glzed ireegualr cheap king of stone.

a fan hanging from the cathedral ceiling up high.
i gues i got most if not all of it.
good luck imagining it
thanks

my family room :

rectangular, with catherdral ceiling the longitudinal axis of the ceiling is along the long side of rectangle.
you enter throug a 3 foot opening and there is step down into the room, dtep is about 5 inches.

when standing after the step you back to the entracne(you have not walked in the room at all you are along the long axis of the rectange measuring about 20 feet and perpendicular to the shor dimension measring about 16-17 feet
right to your left is wet bar measuring H 31 x L 50 depth 36 inches. there is another acinet aboive it on the wall .
after the wet bar there is 1.5 by 1.5 foot cgap between the bar and salamander cabinet. the left andra lives infront or inside this gap if i get it very close to the wall.(this is like a 3 sided box). then the gear cabint L 66, hight 21 depth 22 inches. above it is center speaker and plasma on the wall. after the cabinet comes a larger gap unitll we reach the built in wall unit, made mainly od wood. cabinets and shleves. This gap is about 4-4.5 feet. there live s the right andra close to the cabinet and a definitive tech super cube 1 between the andra and the cabinet. The right is andra is kind of between the cabinet and this sub if i push it back.
The wall unit takes he whole wall it is right infornt of you. in the middle is solid wood wall between the 2 cabinets underneath which is a granite fireplace with glass doors.
to your righ i a wall that comprises 2 huge windows that take most of this 16-18 foot wall. there 2 foot gap between the windows and another one foot gap between the second window and the wall on your righ which is knee wass about 2.5 -3 feet high.
you are still at the entrance to your right are 2 fabric chairs with with 16 x 31 stone table between them and small ottoman infront the table
a leather sofa for 3 person back againt the windows, the center of the sofa is at the center of the gap between the 2 windows which is the at the center of the plasma screeen and the cabinet. this sofa is 3-4 inches from the wall.
right next to sofa on it's right, is a recliner tilter so it faces the TV, it's back partially faces the mindow and partially the built in cabinet in the wall.
infornt of the sota, right in the midde, and one foor waway from is a huge stome cocktail table measuring 2 feet by 3.5 feet and 1.5 feet high. the stome is not marble it is partially glzed ireegualr cheap king of stone.

a fan hanging from the cathedral ceiling up high.
i gues i got most if not all of it.
good luck imagining it
thanks

Guys. i can send you an accurate layout as an email attachement i can have it ready by tomorrow with all dimensions and everything.
But to what email to send the attachement to.
I tried to do here but it si onlt test message. i can even take pics and send it.

let me know
thanks

Tvad, The problem in trying to help Scientist73 is fundamentally we don't have a basic undertanding of his room. We don't even really know its dimensions, we don't know where his listening position possibilities are, ad infinitum ad naseum.

I think a major factor which is not being considered is that these are 3 way speakers and I doubt they were intended to be used as 'nearfield' monitors. My last speakers (before Tylers) were a three way system using Dynaudio drivers, much as the Andrea's. When you listen in the nearfield the tweeter predominates the sound as the tweeter is closer to you and it has not really blended with the mid and woof.

I would guess that these speakers would sound best if the drivers were about 9 to 10 feet apart, the listening position was 10' back and the speakers were 4 to 5 ft from the wall behind them. By crossing the axis of the speakers as I suggested earlier you can actually get close side wall placement, there is no sonic downside to close sidewall placement other than these reflections.

Unfortunately we do not what is even possible. I suspect that he has room set up limitations, or he has some asthetic limitations, or sonic predispositions, which he has not told us about.

But, Scientist73, you would not be the first person to discover the hard way that buying highly regarded equipment and plunking it down in a room that it sounds poorly and then tries to patch it together with different stuff, without understanding and attacking basic set up issues first, and ultimately after gaining an education the hard way (money and time wise) ends up essentially starting from scratch. Been there, done that! I think many of us have, especially us set up freaks. :-)

FWIW, Scientist73, time to start getting analytical about your problems. There really is no quick cure for your problems if you really want to get the value out of your present equipment. If you really want some help from this forum, take a moment to provide a concise description of your room, its openings, its furnishings including locations of windows, furniture, etc. Just put it in words with descriptive descriptions. We can draw diagrams in our minds. There are some very knowlegable set up folks here who can help, but everyone is presently shooting in the dark in trying to help you.

FWIW :-)

Since you have tried various speaker placement and the brightness is still prevalent, it's down to the electronics. The synergy between your speakers and the Musical Fidelity amp, in my opinion and some others, is the culprit. You can of course try wires since they are the cheapest solution, but if you could get someone to loan you a Krell or McCormack amp(noticed a few users who drive the Andra with Krell FPB's) then the much better since you would then be able to know how your speakers would interact with the right electronics, or vice versa. You can check out users who have similiar speakers here in their virtual systems and get some opinions from them.

I was in a dilemma once as there was a mismatch between my amp and speakers, and I have to choose which one to go despite my initial intention to keep them both. In my case there was too much warmth and I wanted more detail and transparency. Eventually I have chosen my amp to stay and got new speakers. FYI I have tried cables in an attempt to salvage things too but in the end figured out a *component* need to be replaced.

Good luck in your cable marathon......

location. location. location..positio.positio.position
more progress.
I started all over again i pushed the speakes back to the wall less than a foot away and started again.
Here are some conclusions, to some of you who are experts it may be a given but to other it may be of help

the bass got strong but was a little boomy. when i started to toe in it got better and the imaging got better too. The quality is different than when the speakers are 3 feet away from the wall and 6-7 fet from me, i was sitting in the middle of the music, it was 3D in every aspect to an unrealistic but addicitve way. now it is clear but i lost that hologram effect. i may trying to achieve what is unreal. real sound in a concert hall , even in the best spot is not hologram like, correct me if i am wrong.
With the speaker close to wall and very slightly toed in i was able to escape some of the reflections on the right book case. This is my problem guys, the right book case. the middle of such case is a flat wood wall and the bottom is granite fireplace. when the speaker is at a certain angle which i am too close to find the out edge of music going to that wall reflects, this is the problem. i even hear the interument echoing at a certain angle and even their tome changes.
Also with the speakers close to the wall and far form me, the sound stage moved far from me , mostly infornt of me so refelctions are much less.
I guess there is no win win here. I am greedy i want it all especially after spending a lot i thought i can get it all. i have to keep tring.Then i will start the long cable swap marathon. but i found that position if the problably the greatest factor that can cause major changes. In realestate they say the most important is location, location, location. I guess this is true for our case too.
thanks much to all of you

The instruments on Modern Cool disc are recorded super clean, top level quality. It's her voice that screwes things up. On Modern Cool track 3 when she sings "SSSSSetting my being completely....on fire" and on track 8 she sings "Your SSSSSSSSSSSSun makes me feel like a fool".....these can drive you nuts man!

So Scientist, best of luck to you. Relax and don't go crazy with PB's sibilance when you evaluate the sound quality. It's not the equipment. She can drive you nuts. :)

You CAN reduce this with cables to some degree. And with room treatment. But what's on the recording can not be eliminated completely. Although I never listened to a pair of Andras, I am pretty sure they are top of the line speakers. With a different set of cables you may reduce the sibilance on her CDs but you may loose some other qualities you like about your system. There is always a trade off.

Scientist, you have a lot of good and free recommendations here that you may want to try aside from changing equipment.
Tvad's suggestion on speaker positioning is very good. You may want to consider trying that first.

I really beleive that in your situation, the AZ Silver Ref MkII interconnect may do the opposite of what you're looking for. I am a big fan of Acoustic Zen cables and think they are one of the best. But that doesn't mean I will recommend these every time. Silver RefII is a great interconnect. The best I have tried from the cdp to preamp when from preamp to amp I have had Matrix Ref II. I have tried 2 pairs of Silver Ref II - 1 pair from CDP to pre and second pair from pre to amp. The sound was very thin, artifical and bright with 2 pairs of Silver Ref II in the system. I too have the AZ Satori speaker cable.
When I replaced the pre-to-amp Silver Ref II with Matrix Ref II the sound was excellent. It returned to being full-bodied, natural, smooth. Good thing I borrowed the second pair of Silver II from a friend and could go back to my Matrix II in a matter of minutes.
I think in case of your integrated amp, you may encounter the same situation I encountered when using 2 pairs of Silver RefII in my system. So I think this may not be a solution for you. See, if the system is already bright and forward, and you run your cdp to integrated, you only have 1 interconnect. And you don't want that one and only interconnect to be a bright one.
I suggest going with the AZ Matrix Ref mkII interconnect or the Audience AU24 interconnect and speaker cable.
Also, you may want to call cable company(1-800-fat-wyre) and have them sent you few pairs of interconnects and speaker cables to try from their lending library. They have a database with feedback from users with particular amps, speakers, cables, etc.
So this may be helpful to you and they may guide you in the proper direction as far as cables. I think going with a smoother sounding interconnect will help a lot and it probably is one of the solutions for you since you mentioned that room treatment is most likely out of the question.

Hey Scientist73, sibilance on Patricia Barber(I am pretty sure you're either talking about Modern Cool or Cafe Blue) is there in the recording like that. It is not your system. The degree of that sibilance will vary from speaker to speaker, some speakers worst than others, but in general, that unnatural ssssssssssssss is going to be there no matter what.

Listen to instrumental recording to find out if the system is brihgt or not.