This Brinkman tubed 24v unit is supposed to be phenomenal. Any idea if .5 amps will run the SG-200? I am guessing the answer would be yes.
Brinkmann RöNt II
Specifications
Optional power supply for turntables »Balance«, »LaGrange«, »Oasis« and »Bardo«
Power consumption 80 Watts
Output voltage stabilized to 24 ..25VDC
Output current 0...500mA peak
Tubes 2x PL36 , 1x 5AR4 |
Thanx Lewm, but happy to stick as is. |
By the way, the rationale for that idea is based on the fact that batteries are not entirely free of noise. If you use enough uF, you can remove the hash from the supply before it hits the SG. |
Spirit, If you are in a DIY frame of mind, you might try bypassing the battery supply with a bank of high quality low voltage electrolytic capacitors. Use lots of microfarads. I and others have found that bypassing batteries that supply CD player functions has very beneficial effects. For example, since the voltage is apparently 24V, I imagine you are using two 12V car batteries in series. Good electrolytics that can handle 24V are rather cheap. Try Nichicon or Panasonic or whatever floats your boat and use several thousand uF by paralleling many caps. I will bet you will hear a difference in the positive direction. |
Nope, no experience with these. I only went down the batt psu route when JFrech mentioned good results with RWA on his nagra phono stage.
Ironic, Hynes is in Scotland (me, London). The website looks interesting, and good vfm. Mojo Audio, no comment. |
Thanks Spirit - extremely helpful. Was wondering if you had also investigated other PSU options for the Energizer, such as Mojo Audio or Hynes? |
Cfluxa, better to explain it this way. The Soundsmith Straingauge comes in two parts; the cart and the "energizer" unit. This unit physically powers the cart, and some of the top models act as an all in one preamp --- I have the base model SG200 which just powers the cart, no preamp function.
It is the energizer unit that also has to be powered in the usual way, in this case via twin 24v dc wall warts. It is these wall warts that I've replaced with the batt psu, NOT the energizer unit.
As I said, Dave Slagle of Emia has a valve based energizer which would swap out the SG200 and assocd wall warts - just not sure if it's as compatible with Peter's SG as pre existing NOS Panasonic SG's. |
Thanks, Spirit. So to be clear, the Red Wine unit can replace the standard PSU entirely, performing all of its functions? |
Cfluxa, the cart is powered by the SG200 unit, which has a twin 24V dc psu (two off the shelf wall warts, in effect one per channel). Yes, these in effect are gathering dust. Has been replaced by the single chassis (plus additional charger) batt psu.
The SG200 box has to be powered by something, so will come with the twin 24V dc psu as standard. |
Spirit - is the stock PSU that you replaced with the Red Wine now collecting dust? Is it not an option to buy the SG without a PSU? |
Just a few thoughts, gentlemen. Watts, I'm not qualified to answer your qs, so will leave to others. Peter is not open to batt psu, or tube psu options for his SG. This is a shame, since my batt psu is pushing the cart to new heights of greatness esp re airy highs, and transparent mids.
Re tube options, the Straingauge tech has been around for a long time, and Dave Slagle of Emia fame has a bespoke tube psu for his NOS Panasonic Straingauges, and it may be compatible for Peter's current version. Beyond this I don't know too much, but the options are out there. |
I have been following the soundsmith strainguage threads lately. I have never heard one but from what I have read my take on the sonic quality is the following. I suspect the sonic signature can be a function of (dependent on) three aspects (RIAA/equalization aspects aside:
1) Trackability of the grooves
2) Responsiveness of the strainguage system
3) The characteristics of the power supply
Various cartridges (SG, MI, MM, MC) have better or worse performance in this area. Apparently the low mass nature of the SG is superior to others. I suspect this is one aspect to how much detail it retrieves.
Seemingly the SG system is more responsive, than "slower" coil/mass based cartridges. I suspect this I what makes this cartridge very quick and dynamic. Of course I believe the trackability helps in this regard as well.
Since the SS power supply is directly in the signal path I suspect the SS power supply could be leading to what some regard as a lack of harmonic richness or texture.
In my experience between tubes and SS, generally speaking, is that tubes seem to more easily provide this. Is it the distortion or different harmonics I don't know....that has been debated for years! However, in my limited experience comparing the tube phono/preamp stage I normally use versus as good SS preamp I tried is that the SS phono had many of the qualities some people like about the SG but lacked in the texture department. Is it a distortion or not I can't say, but in the end it just sounded more right to me.
I do believe that there are some tube systems that sound horrible and that there are some SS that have great texture. As Spirit has tried a battery power supply to feed the SG unit and found improved performance in the areas of harmonic signature and texture, I suspect that improvements by SS in their power supply system could go a long way in improving these aspects.
From am marketing standpoint, it would seem to be a brilliant idea for SS to offer either a solid state option or tube-based option to drive the SG. More importantly, they should experiment with the SS power supply to see if they can ameliorate some of these texture. Black gate caps? regulation? I don't know but since there are some SS units which go a long way to sounding texturally real, I suspect there is more potential.
Imagine having all of the strengths of the SG but addressing what others view as the principle debated shortcoming?
Cheers,
Andrew |
Lew - I am referring simply to the fact that the strain gauge is using solid-state amplification rather than tube amplification. Of course, that doesn't get in the way of it being analogue.
An interesting line from Peter in a 2010 Audio Asylum post:
"While there is now some interest again in this technology, there are those who will DIY with older cartridges, and even now some with triode designs. I have opted to produce solid state circuitry for the SG simply becaue it allows fast, ultra linear performance. While I am not a tube bigot, I must point out that non-linearities from such are artifacts, and that is not the way I wanted to start out with my new cartridge. Not that artifacts are "bad"....but they are artifacts none the less. I have seen no distortion figures posted for these circuits; nor a square wave response into a typical load. I hope to see some real techincal work in this area someday beyond just tube circuitry for the sake of tube circuitry."
As I stated before, my main concern is that the sound of the SG might retain some solid-state characteristics that don't go over well with me. Based on what I'm reading from Spirit and others, it does seem that worries about bleached tonal colors, less-than-silky transients and a lack of dimensionality are hopefully misplaced.
I still do wonder, however, whether there's a bias away from rich tonal colors, and whether, for example, I might feel the need to replace my Yamamoto 45 amp with a 300B after dropping in the strain gauge, a bid to get that extra iota of second-order harmonic development that might be lacking. I'm not a fanatic about the latter, mind you, but I do prefer Technicolor to black-and-white. |
Spirit, I would say that I am a convert away from belt-drive and that my personal experience with my Lenco is very favorable indeed. I love it. Apart from the Lenco, all my other (four) turntables are direct-drive. I confess I do have some doubts/questions about rim-drive, as it is implemented in your type of tt, using an external motor with a small diameter drive wheel that makes contact with the platter via O-rings. I would never say that that is not a good idea, but I would want to audition it for myself to see how it compares to what I've gotten used to. (I think the Trans-fi set-up is superior to the rim-drive of TT Weights and VPI, however.) As you know, on the Trans-fi Terminator, I am a big fan, from afar so far. It would be my choice among SL tonearms, if I were willing to put up with pumps and such.
Cfluxa, why would you say that the SG is "solid-statey"? It depends upon mechanical energy induced into the mechanism via a stylus. To me, that's analogue. Maybe you refer to the SG power supplies? |
My experience has been that some LPs that sounded terrible with my previous Airy 3 sound fantastic with the SG and vice versa. Most LPs sound fantastic, especially mono LPs |
Lewm, I see you're a convert to rim drive/direct drive. I myself have moved to direct rim drive w/an equally leading edge air bearing linear tracker. The fast, transparent, essentially neutral SG cart has an amazing synergy, and I've been happy to put away my phono, don't class this as a disadvantage at all. Tbh the carts I was looking at in comparison would have cost me well in excess of the SG entry ticket. And I'm really happy that at the point I need to attend to stylus wear, I'll be shelling out only $400-$600, rather than $3000 on a retip. The SG has replaced a previous SOTA Transfiguration Orpheus into the Tom Evans Groove Plus SRX, no slouch itself. |
Hi Cfluxa. I would really urge you to push for a home demo. Spkrs and cart are the two components that I believe set the character of an analog fronted system the most, and you need to be 110% sure you like that character.
Your 3 points - 99.9% of installs are going to be in a pivoted arm, so the q was more if the SG would work in my ultra short 3" wand linear tracker: there should be no issues with a 9" or 12" pivoted --- I don't have any experience of tube phonos, although I run a tube pre (Hovland HP200) and tube monoblocks (Audion Black Shadow SETs) and am a convert to the sound of glowing bottles: all I can say is that the SG is the most liquid sound I've yet heard from analog, that I don't wish for anything --- and re challenging lps: the consensus is to go for the slightly cheaper "5" stylus profile as opposed to the priciest "6". I believe the "5" comes as standard with the kit. The 6's ruthlessly revealing nature makes it a stellar performer with some lps, and too challenging with substandard ones, whereas the 5's more forgiving nature avoids all this hair pulling. My 5 stylus leaves me wanting for nothing. |
I have tried to read everything available on the internet about Peter's SG cartridge and am very close to buying one because of their obvious design advantages.
I just have one simple question that I can't get answered.
I understand that a strict adherence to RIAA is not critical to SQ (i.e., +/- .1db is marginally audible and probably over-kill).
I understand the speed, coherence, sound staging,(et. al.) of the SG is well worth a mild response variance from RIAA. Peter has publically disclosed this variance as +/-1db between 50hz and 14khz.
What I don't understand is why there is no disclosure about the magnitude of roll off from 50hz down to 20hz and the magnitude of upward tilt from 14kz up to 20kz both of which are in the audible range and generally not disputed?
I understand that a displacement sensitive design will not require any where near the equalization of a velocity sensitive design and will thereby stay fairly close to flat with no phono-stage equalization; but on the ends of the sonic spectrum Peter admits the tolerance exceeds +/-1db but refuses to quantify this variance. He seems to prefer to simply tell us it doesn't matter. Peter is beyond brilliant, but I just don't get this approach.
This technology is phenomenal and the RIAA variance has spooked many an audiophiles unnecessarily only because it diverges slightly from what is considered the norm. In turn, many technocrats in the industry cant get their perfectionist heads around what they perceive to be a deficiency.
The best speakers in the world have several dB humps and troughs at their cross-over points that are measured and then viewed as "character" by the audiophile community. (Think if an archaic manufacturing practice led to a strict linear response definition at the expense of speed, coherence, sound staging and so on in the speaker market. Seems pretty silly right?)
I don't get why Peter doesn't simply quote variation for the entire audible frequency response range, own it for what it is, take away the big mystery, and rule the world. |
Spirit - sorry for the dribbling, but one other question for you - what is your take on the charge that the SG is ruthlessly revealing of bad recordings, with the result that one gets corralled into mainly playing clean, high-quality pressings? Is this also something that's mitigated with proper setup? |
Spirit - to Lew's point, I was also wondering about the fact that the SG is essentially a solid-state device, and was wondering if you think there's anything detectably "solid-statey" about the sound? Being a tube-o-phile who generally isn't enchanted with even top-notch solid-state gear like ASR, that's one of my key concerns here. I do love Shindo and VAC, and am pretty impressed by these reviews that say the SG has beat components from both those manufacturers. I honestly can't imagine solid-state gear doing that. |
If SS would make an inexpensive adaptor so this cartridge could be used with a good linestage, I think many more would be sold. What holds the cartridge back in the market, IMO, is just what Pro said; most of us have an expensive phono stage that we are in love with. Adopting the SG means dumping or storing away the phono stage and spending a not inconsiderable amount of money on an SG PS that cannot be used with any other cartridge. Then too, there are reviews that don't completely agree with yours, Spirit. I'd love to hear one in my own system before making a purchase decision. |
Spiritofmusic - thanks for the response, extremely helpful. Indeed, I am fascinated by the strain gauge after stumbling on Jack Roberts' review just last week. I happen to have a setup very similar to the one he had previously - Shindo pre, low-watt SET driving Lowther-type speakers, and I am amazed at the notion that the strain gauge could soundly beat the Shindo Giscours with a Miyabi cartridge!
I have been weighing buying a first-rate low-impedance cartridge to match the Shindo and my Hashimoto SUT, and am now pretty much trying to decide between that and selling the Shindo to make a bet on the SG. Your testimony is now pushing me toward the latter. I wonder whether I would miss fiddling with different carts and switching them out, or would the SG be so good I wouldn't look back. It does seem there are a few documented cases of that now!
Given the importance of azimuth, is it so sensitive that you think it could become an issue with regular sweep arms, versus your linear tracker? |
Yes prof, the SG is a final destination component esp. now w/batt psu. Just so open, textured and tone rich, I feel no need to investigate alternatives.
And with the saving on redundant phono stage, and inexpensive cost of replacement stylus, a true high end bargain. |
Cfluxa, yes I was aware of his comments plus others both praising the speed and dynamics of the cart but bemoaning it's lack of texture etc. And other comments that voices sounded unnatural. And Jack Roberts 100% positive review on Dagogo (really worth checking out). What Jack's review stated, was what I found in the demo - if it's not set up correctly (esp azimuth), it can sound thin and edgy. Maybe MF hadn't set it up correctly, I don't know.
However after a good amount of time with the Feikert set up app, it really revealed itself.
I have a very fast tt/arm (rim drive/linear tracker), and any lack of body in the cart would be ruthlessly revealed. I'm achieving amazing bass punch/extension, midrange texture/density, and treble airiness/energy.
I don't listen to a lot of classical, so can't comment at length on strings, but Bach harpsichord has never sounded so substantial and energetic, airy and grounded.
My other main test in audio is snare drum, and the SG200 presents the best combination of stick attack and shell depth I've yet heard.
And the RWA BL batt psu takes it's transparency to new heights. |
Spiritofmusic - very fascinated by your comments, and wondering whether you think Michael Fremer has a point with his critique of the midrange being harmonically underdeveloped, with a relatively "stingy" sustain to notes. He refers to a corresponding a tipped-up response that emphasizes, for example, the bow rosin and strings more than the wooden bodies of acoustic instruments? Is this something that you have experienced, and/or been able to address with proper setup? |
I think that one of the problems with Strain Gauge sales, like with active speaker sales, is that us audiophiles get attached to our gear and it means changing an expensive phono stage or getting rid of a power amp in the case of Active speakers. If you want to change again then you have to re-purchase them again.
Unfortunate really as like you my SG is a destination component, just like my active speakers. |
Of course, Peter. Of the 3 dealers in the UK who stocked the cart, only 1 was prepared to travel (500 mile round journey), and provided a fantastic service leading to my purchase. If he hadn't extended his courtesy to me, I wouldn't have started this thread. |
We all have different tastes which accounts for one of the reasons that there are not more Straingauges out there. As you well know, it is difficult to audition cartridges in one's own system. We are often left having to rely on what we hear from demonstrations at various shows. Many roads lead to Nirvana. |
As you know Peter, I've reached the end of my analog journey with the Trans Fi Salvation and Terminator tt and arm. No plans to return to belt drive/pivoted arm rigs. And now the RWA BL batt psu powered Straingauge SG200 cart has completed my final destination.
I'm always surprised how few analog high enders have investigated this cart. I've listened to a fair few top carts/phono stages (admittedly only a limited spread) in my time, and really believe this cart is really up there. Yet so few of our colleagues run one (in contrast to all the Lyras, Clearaudios, Van Den Huls, Ortofons, and yes, Airtights, out there). |
Thanks, Spirit. That makes sense and it must sound tremendous at this point. |
Peter, sure. What I mean is that the opening up of the top end of the Straingauge via the RWA BL batt psu is resulting in an amazing "lightness" to music that I think can only now be achieved with crystalline extension of the treble.
If this was at the expense of a lack of power, bass extension, warmth and earthy tone of the lower frequencies, I would have been unhappy with a "wispy" quality. But these positive bass characteristics are all present, and in fact enhanced, leading to an amazing improvement top to bottom. So "ethereal" can co-exist with "grounded". As can "wispy" and "insubstantial/insipid". |
I didn't mean to sound critical of your language, just trying to understand what you mean. You can ignore the question. Sorry. |
Spirit, could you explain what you mean by "more ethereal than ever, but not at the expense of a realistic groundedness." I once used the terms "ethereal" and "grounded" to describe two completely different speaker systems, one quite diffuse, unnatural sounding and not at all convincing and the other quite natural and real sounding with a much better sense of foundation and presence. |
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Prof, I don't know what to say. Much as I love the "standard" SG200 with the twin 24v wall warts psus, they're really holding back the performance of the Straingauge if the Red Wine Audio Black Lightning (RWA BL) twin battery pack psu is anything to go by.
In a nutshell, the whole top end of the cart is improved, with an amazing increase in shimmer and incision. This is adding a lot of energy to the presentation (could almost be "toppy" if the rest of the spectrum wasn't so good), with ambient cues and microdynamics really enhanced.
The midband is so much more natural and transparent, with female voices esp. sounding more ethereal than ever, but not at the expense of a realistic groundedness.
And the bass is phenomenal, with a whole lot more punch and extension, but not at the expense of real earthy tone.
A slam dunk no brainer for $1500. |
Hmmm... I was hoping that you would say that it made no difference:) |
Proftournesol, I agree with you re timbre. Which is why it's so perplexing that so many find voices unnatural thru the cart.
Re the battery psu, it has transformed the cart. Has in particular opened up the top end to demonstrate a really shimmering treble. At the same time there has been no curtailing of low end extension, and mids are showing an amazing natural transparency.
I'd recommend it wholeheartedly, with one proviso - I hit a problem on the original install which needed me to send the SG200 box to Red Wine Audio with the batt psu. Email Vinnie Rossi at the company first to discuss Straingauge install specifics. |
Hi Spiritofmusic, I've just read through this sometimes bad tempered thread with interest as I've had a SS Strain Gauge cart for almost 2 years now, recently upgraded to the latest Mk 4 spec. I agree with your impressions of the SG, all I would add is that one of the most prominent attributes of the SG is it's really accurate reproduction of timbre in musical instruments, this is almost its most amazing quality for me. I'm interested in your experience with the Black Lightning PSU.
I must say that I was bemused at some of the comments regarding RIAA accuracy. Unless you are listening in a very well treated room, the room induced artefacts will contribute way more deviation from a flat response. Strangely, it does sound a very neutral cart on a number of turntables, arms and rooms. Mine os currently mounted on a Thales TTT-C and Simplicity arm. |
Harold, I'm going to get you to write my biography. You'll help me go down in the annals as a very important man, ha ha!
The setup sure sounds different from any analog or digital I've heard before, actually a little closer to 15ips tape that I've heard in the past.
Combines neutrality with warmth to leave you wanting for nothing.
Thanx for the kind words. Will post further on the batt psu in due course. |
Spirit, I understand your modesty. Technically speaking, you are running a near perfect analog rig. So it´s so easy for you just... tell the truth, because your very long (I guess) journey in Analog is almost over, lol. Now you are relaxed... and you are about to take the last but not certainly the least leap still.
In your system you are combining forces from the two Great (if not the Greatest) Minds in modern Analog. Evolution is gaining speed in tremendous velocity... and you are making History ! |
Hi Harold, I wouldn't presume it's one of the best, but it certainly outperforms a lot of pricier rigs out there IMHO.
Just installed a Red Wine Audio Black Lightning twin battery psu for the Straingauge. Maintaining all the attributes currently, with a near-zero noise floor. Amazing. |
Hello Spirit, Now I understand it all. I would certainly like to try that unique cartridge hopefully in near future (firsly I need to save some money... or sell something...)
Anyway, I´m glad you´re enjoying, your analog rig is truly very very special. Quite possibly one of the very best there can be. Congrats and Thanks ! |
Lawrence, and Raul, please be a bit more specific than just saying "different". |
I would have to agree with Raul on this one...I have heard SS cartridge on several occasions IMO it does sound different! and IMO not a musical correct different..
I am a manufacture but not of cartridges :)
to each his own
Lawrence
Fidelity_Forward |
Harold, as far as I can tell ALL the Soundsmith Straingauge models are EXACTLY the same cart, only the electronics are different. Personally I didn't want to get rid of my pre amp, so more complicated electronics were not needed by me. hence the cheapest option with SG200 energiser serve my needs sufficiently.
Make sure you go for the recent Mk2 version. I don't know what the electrical differences are from the Mk1, but it was almost night and day in my system, esp re bass performance. |
Hello Spirit, Congrats you are a very happy man now.
What model exactly is this new Straingauge cartridge ?
Is it the top of the line from Soundsmith ? Please tell more ! |
Finally had my Mk2 Straingauge dialled in correctly esp re azimuth, vta and vtf, for a while now.
It's really the best performing cart I've ever had in my system (which incl. Transfiguration Temper and Orpheus, Lyra Skala and Parnassus, Roksan Shiraz, and ESCCo modded Zu Denon 103).
Bass is warm and effusive, but totally textural, never one-note. Mids are clear and transparent. Highs are crystalline and almost unlimited in extension. Tone and precision in equal measure.
Tracking is like a bloodhound, and there is a total synergy with my direct rim drive tt/air bearing linear tracking arm. I'm really detecting no artifacts in analogue replay revealing the shortcomings of the lp medium that bugged me playing records in the last few years compared to playing cds on my really neutral Emm Labs CDSA cdp. This is the closest I've ever got to the Holy Grail of 15 ips reel-to-reel sound that I heard a year ago.
For the first time in 5 years, lp replay is streaking ahead of digital that was previously regularly outperforming it in my system.
Other than experimenting with supports/isolation/power, that's it for my upgrade journey to analogue audio nirvana over 17 years. |
Tanathen, the cart my SG replaced is no slouch and if it wasn't for hearing Peter's baby, I wouldn't have swapped.
This is the Zu Audio Denon 103 ($900), modded by the Expert Stylus And Cartridge Company ESCCo, in England ($500). Total giant killer. See my thread "ESCCo modded Zu 103". |
I would love to hear it on my et2 and sota.....someday, for now it's just me and my grado. It sounds great when I finally get a chance to listen, which isn't nearly as often as the doctor ordered. I'm willing to bet the farm the SG is in a different galaxy nevermind league. I'm glad you are loving it, soundsmith is a class act and Pete certainly knows what he's doing. |
Tanathen, the sound sure seems accurate and lifelike, a quantum leap beyond other SOTA carts I've run. I have to say I've heard no colourations in vocals on any disc I'm pretty familiar with - Kate Bush still doesn't sound like Frank Sinatra!
Fine tuning of the cart has really paid dividends, the bass has really locked in, and the final piece of this particular audio jigsaw has been completed. Now, I'm getting a naturally extended and warm bass, but still faster than any other analog I know, complementing superlative mids and highs.
Just heard the maxxed install with NAT SET amps running thru my v. efficient Zu spkrs. Wow, I'm totally sold on this sound, and the SG cart really sounds limitless in this chain. Now, where's that chequebook?! |
