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Has anyone tried the upper end Teo line of interconnects and speaker
cables? I went from top line Hi Dimond and it was a quite a revelation
for me, personally. Just a suggestion since this thread has also encompassed
cables. |
I ordered a new dac from lampizator. It will be here in 3 weeks and it will have the new Kr242 Richard kron tubes. It will also be fully balanced.
Im currently using the momentum integrated with Nordost Odin speaker cables and powercord. My dacs are the oppo 205 and the simaudio 650d. Im going to leave the block audios off to the side for the next 2 weeks along with the ref10. I want to give my ears time to get more acquainted with the momentum. Once the lampizator arrives then I’ll bring back the block audios and ref10.
I’ve playing with Odin 1 powercords and Shunyata alpha NR.
My feeling is that Shunyata adds more bottom end and the Odin more detail and holographic presentation. I would say that I prefer the alpha nr pcs in the Monos rather than Odin 1. The Odin 1 seem to do amazing things with sources and preamps but adding the shunyata to the amplifiers seems to add the fullness which rounds out the presentation. it adds more “meat” which makes everything more enjoyable.
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Hi WC
Any further impressions on the speaker and power cables? Specifically on the four comparisons you laid out that you wanted to get to the bottom of?
Hope you are still getting some good listening in during this waiting period. |
So I’m assuming your Lampizator bit the dust? Not worth repairing? Or taken on trade? I remember you were sending it to Poland. Not an inexpensive proposition just for a check up. I have heard it’s not a matter of if a Lampi will break but of when. Other than that they are outstanding DACs.
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We shall see how good this dac will be. I was told that it won’t be here until April so I guess ill just play with cables in the meantime and see what seems to sound best to my ears.
The powercords Have like 150 -200 hours playtime. |
The Golden Lampizator Pacific with XLR and Volume Control. The single best upgrade to your system.
Other than trying some amps from Dan D'ag and some others, you are hitting the top of the heap. Great choices. It may take a while to get the cables figured out? Keep it fun and all is good. |
whitecamaross
how many hours are logged on the Odin PCs now?
Happy Listening! |
WC, while you wait, please try the zip cord for speaker wire. I promise it will be a new ball game for you.
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All,
i have ordered a brand new, fully balanced lampizator pacific in gold color. The unit will come with the new KR 242 tubes (Rk edition). I was told by Fred from lampizator that these aren’t your typical 242 tubes. These are tubes that the Richard Kron just manufactured for lampizator and they just started to ship these tubes as of a month ago. According to Fred, they are dynamic, more detailed and have more gain Than the 300b I had. I was told I need to wait about 3 weeks for it to be built.
I believe this will probably be my new preamp. I would be shocked if I stay with the ref10 as my preamp after this new dac arrives.
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bigddesign3,
OK, I understand your needs. For casual but attentive listening to the radio off axis while I am eating, I listen at much lower than live volumes. To get better clarity, it helps to boost the HF when they are rolled off by listening way off axis. At low volumes, the HF boost is not irritating. Cheers to you.
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viber6,
I was pointing out to be careful that you don't mess with the highs so much that you get too much of a good thing.
I love to blast my music at times, but my family will only tolerate so much of the whole house in an earthquake with my electronic dance music. So I try to only do that once a week or so. I love most all types of music, and some can be turned up quite a bit for a few minutes. My Krell KSA-200S is a real gem with having the current available to set off some "holy sheet" moments at high volume. But most listening is done at respectable levels. My music listening goes all the way from the 60's to now. If it sounds good, I'm ok with the type of music it is. There is not a music type that I like more than another. I'm quite good at picking out the tracks (ahead of time) that will play on the radio, and become hits. At 62, I still get excited about new music coming out. My only regret is how much money I have spent to get to where I wanted to be with my retirement home system. It does sound exceptional though. Cheers.
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bigddesign3,
Good. Also, imagine that you have a perfect system that reproduces live unamplifiied music indistinguishable from live. At the live volume, there are plenty of highs and every other sound attribute, and if you play your system at the same volume, both the live sound and your reproduced sound are pleasing without harshness. But if you then crank the volume of your system higher or get too close to live sound where the volume is too loud, there will be harshness in many areas, not just the highs. This should not be a justification to reduce the highs in a system just because you want to blast it louder than the natural live sound. Perfect reproduction involves the usual goals of balance and information retrieval, and also the proper natural volume, not blasting.
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@viber6
Agreed. Too much energy, not clarity. |
bigddesign3,
I think you meant that one shouldn't give Martin Logans too much ENERGY in the highs, not too much CLARITY. It is fine to prefer a more subdued tonal balance with less highs, but clarity must never be sacrificed. Music is a type of language of sounds and words where clarity is paramount. Also, if you look at a classical music score (printed music) there is so much information present that no hifi listener has yet heard because all systems are veiled and lacking clarity to some extent.
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I brought out the momentum integrated back from the dead and used Odin pc, Odin speaker cables and oppo as a source which is also using Odín pc.
Man this sounds far better than I remember hearing it before. Gorgeous mids and smoothness. I don’t get any ear fatigue but the highs might be a tad “ disorganized” when cranked up to high levels. Could be either that the momentum Is clipping or that the oppo 205 continues to feed me highs that are a tad bright when pushed.
greyhound, you could be right about the brightness :)
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@whitecamaross
Could it be that your Oppo-UDP205 is a little bright or forward when turned up loud ?. Do you remember what i said about my Oppo UDP203 vs JRiver Media Center PC.. (Dell Precision T-5400) ???
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The last thing you want to give Martin Logans is too much clarity in the highs. Ear fatigue, my friend. And it's just not natural to have highs stand out too much. You are still finding the proper speaker cable, I think.
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A friend came over last night and we listened to different types of songs. He did not know which speaker cable was playing as music played. He chose the nordost each time without knowing. His words were:
“The shunyata sounded muscular, bold, in your face and the nordost had better highs and detail without so much bottom end fullness, more natural”
We had odin 1 on the ref10 and oppo. That said, when we cranked things up, we felt that the odin combination had a tad too much brightness. You almost couldn’t hear it loud for a long period of time. I proceeded to take off the Odin 1 from the oppo (this is the newest cable and probably still breaking in) and used a shunyata alpha nr on it and it helped tame things down but what I’m now needing to find out is what will give the best results:
1. Using odin pc on the amps and preamp
and not on the dac
2. Using one shunyata interconnect in the mix rather than platinum 8 which is what I’m using to go from the dac to the preamp and from preamp to the amps. Maybe swapping on of them out for the shunyata would help?
3. Could it be that the Odin 1 being used one the oppo is still too new and still breaking in which is why I can hear some slight brightness at loud volumes and the system is letting me hear this?
4. Last but not least, I may need to reposition my speakers and try to toe them out in order to decrease some of the brightness I detect at loud volumes. As you know, electrostatics allow you to do this by playing with the toe in.
Many different scenarios. However, the system is coming into its own specially at moderate to low volumes.
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WC,
Whichever speaker cable is the winner this weekend, spend ONE DOLLAR or so on zip cord. Buy lamp cord at a hardware store, etc. You will find it to be more focused, tighter, clearer by a mile than any fat speaker cable you have tried. Bass will be tighter and more revealing, even if it doesn't have quantitative oomph. Your buddies should drop on the floor when they hear what zip cord does, in a blind test, against preconceived prejudices against it. About a month ago, we discussed this, and none of the technically knowledgeable people here could provide convincing explanations about why thin zip has these characteristics. In contrast, I have found that many power cords have better clarity than stock cords. So I am not surprised about your findings about Odin power cords and speaker cables. |
Quick Update:
the wife prefers the Shunyata speaker cables with the odin 1 powercords than the odin 1 speaker cables. she said, and i quote: "they sound more real like the singer is in the room with us"
i have a few people coming over this weekend to do a blind fold shootout of the odin 1 speaker cables vs shunyata. |
@WC, my guess is there's a little bit of silver "fairy" dust in those PC's...I'm no expert on cables but I know that I got some cables with a tiny hint of silver and my system opened way up as well.
I'd like to see a cut-away of the cables if I could and examine the engineering.
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PM sent regarding 242 tubes.
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Odin 1 pc are keepers without a doubt. I’ll give more of my thoughts tomorrow.
Has anyone compared KR 242 tubes to the 300b??? |
whitecamaross
are the Odin PCs keepers? Happy Listening! |
This "silver" or "copper" speaker cable is not an issue. There usually is a difference in sound like you state. I'm just pointing out a way of taking a look of what the recipe may bring with "copper" speaker cables. I don't like overbearing highs with digital playback. Therefore, I prefer a bit of ease at the top of the music spectrum. Reminds me more of the analog days. Having tweaked the crap out of most things audio in life (a ton), I'm trying to give input on ways to see what's best. That's all. @greyhound, that's cool that you are a car stereo guy as well as me.
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@grey9hound
Thanks for the futher bit of
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Here is Toroid’s (Steve Schoonover) perspective on Silver Vs Copper. He is/was the owner of Superior Mass Audio. They made a cable called "The West Star". They hand built cables from the mines they own or owned. It seems that hey are no longer in business, but he does talk about Silver vs C101 Copper. Our family owns mines in New Mexico. Working with the different elements and experimenting
with my own kilns creating pieces for different things,
and the experiment goes on and on since the early 90’s
long before this topic was an issue for the best sound
in any given system. If you have to unscrew the RCA barrel to open up the
sound from a cable then that cable should be rendered
useless. All connectors affect the wire, period. I will
not even begin to get into metallurgy. This is why the best speaker crossovers are hand built and point
to point soldiered "Old School" no fancy looking crossover
board with a name and a pricey logo with paper thin copper
contacts that would burn up if you tried to jump your car with
it. I agree with Green, unscrew the barrel or just chop the whole
end off!, and re soldier it directly to to piece of equipment. Getting back to reality, silver vs. copper or a blend, in my 27
years of building low frequency cabinets for car and home that produce over 155db @ 30hz for numerous car show and live venue events. has led me into the last 20 years of audiophile 2 channel mastering with no equal. Hearing the difference between every cable silver or copper I have ever made or sold for the last 17 years has led me to believe in both! Silver solid wire for the mids and highs
and solid copper wire for the mid bass and lows. That goes for your
internal wiring of the speaker crossovers too, whether or not the inductors are silver or copper. There are to many variables in the audio chain that can lead me
to think otherwise. Good luck and always remember, your ears! They do the final judging. An ardent audiophile’s perspective. The link below is to the specs on the West Star Copper cables : VERY INTERESTING.IMO 952 Feet of twisted pairs. It seems that it took that many to get rid of the "skin effect" https://www.audiogon.com/listings/speaker-superior-mass-audio-the-west-star-sma-since-1998-2014-09-1... |
WCSS,
I think I remember that you liked the copper Wireworld 7 over the silver Wireworld 8. Just a thought to check out the copper ones. Sometimes full copper makes for a fuller sound from top to bottom. Silver tends to make the highs stand out more. In the end, a good cable will not bring ear fatigue over a short period of listening. With these new Nordost Odin 1 power cables, it looks like you are getting a spike already with the mids to the highs. A balance may be needed in order to get the sound you are looking for. Just a thought. Wish I could be there to hear these Neoliths. They are just starting to show what they are capable of.
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@whitecamaross
OK
@eziggy
Thanks, that makes sense. I didn't pay close enough attention to the Google search and the fact the names pertain to the different cables in the Platinum line. So the XLR cable is the Platinum Eclipse.
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@pokey77 Are you asking analog or digital?
I think Starlight is their digital cable series and Eclipse is their analog interconnect. |
Wireworld platinum 8.. if it has the word “platinum” then that’s their top model. Only their top model has the word “platinum”.
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@whitecamaross
I hope you are OK with me asking again.
You mention you have Wireworld Platinum 8 xlr - refresh our memory. Is it Starlight or Eclipse? Will be good info for all to know.
Glad the Odin 1 is showing itself in your system.
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Gentlemen,
i plugged in the second Odin 1 powercord into the system and now the ref10 has its own nordost Odin. This Cable is used so it has miles on it and within the first minutes of playtime, the sound DRASTICALLY improved. I don’t know what they put in these cables but wow. The nordost powercords are just KINGS. Far far exceeding my previous cables. What a spectacular powercord. I’m in shock to say the least. |
Grey9hound,
Thanks for the article. Makes sense. Still, I find relatively small subjective differences after break in, with components and cables. A big exception was the Nordost Frey 2 XLR interconnects, which were crystal clear at first and then became comparatively blurry. My Nordost Frey 2 RCA interconnects are still wonderfully clear and precise.
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Hi WC, I have a quick question regarding cabling since you are on that topic. I'm proceeding with a purchase of the Gryphon Diablo 300 based on your suggestion for my B&W 803 Diamond speakers and subsequent auditioning (thanks for the tip), and am wondering how big of a performance delta I would expect using Valhalla 2 PC versus something lower end like an Audioquest Hurricane. In another thread some are saying that the difference using any cable won't be that different from the stock Gryphon cable, based on the Diablo's design? Not sure if that is true or not. Odin is definitely not a consideration for me (unfortunately....). I'm also considering the PC for my InnuOS Zenith MKIII streamer which I've ordered.
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@whitecamaross
Wireworld Platinum 8 xlr - refresh our memory. Starlight or Eclipse?
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I just had it on the nordost machine that burns them in... 216 hours total break in time. We will see what happens as I let them settle in the system for about 3 more days. |
whitecamaross
Nordost Odin can take many hundreds of hours to bloom. Be patient.
Happy Listening!
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Wireworld Platinum 8 xlr vs Shunyata alpha nr xlr:
1. Wireworld platinum 8 has monstrous soundstage making the shynyata sound narrower
2. Shunyata has great overall balance. Nothing really missing but as soon as you change to the platinum 8, the sound just opens up wall to wall.
Looks like I’m back to wireworld 8 interconnects once again. I prefer their big wide sound.
Odin Speaker cables are still not quite there yet for me. That said I need more time here in order to see what happens as I add more Odin pieces in the mix.
Will I return to wireworld speaker cables? My heart says I probably will but I want to convince myself that there’s a reason why nordost Odin speaker cables are so much money. There’s gotta be a reason but so far their speaker cables are nowhere near as impressive as their powercords. Time will tell what happens here. |
How does a cable break in?
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@WC Any improvement in room acoustic treatment ? |
welcome back WC! excited to hear how things evolve and for this multi-phased shootout
jafox - thanks for your candid response and providing the additional context |
3 minutes into the listening session and the sound is somewhat slower with the nordost speaker cables which is the only thing I’ve swapped out. I also find myself having to turn up the volume higher with the nordost speaker cable for some reason as if these cables place a Bigger load on the amps.
I have to let music flow through these cables for about 48 hours so they can settle in my system and then do a real comparison.
I also have decided to use an Odin powercord on the preamp but I’ll do that later during the week. FYI, the only things running from the shunyata are the block audios and oppo. The preamp and speakers are plugged into the wall.
i remember the Odin powercord not sounding good at all when I first plugged it in and then on the 3rd day I was hearing a crazy amount of stuff that blew my mind. Will this be the same for the speaker cables? We shall see... the fate of the Odin speaker cable will be known in the next few days. |
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Concerning the Odin 1 vs Alpha NR, meant 10X, not 15X. Not really sure on the full retail on that cord but the Odin 2 is around $15k. |
@whitecamaross
Very interested to see how this goes. I've heard Nordost many times and do like their house sound. Mostly Frey2, Tyr 2, Valhalla 2. Have heard Odin 2 once or twice.
I have a new system and will be working on power cords next along with power conditioning. And I've been looking at Shunyata Research and their NR line of cables along with Nordost and will probably look at least at a few other brands and then try to demo a few and make a choice like you are doing. It will be very interesting how the 15X Odin 1 fairs against the Alpha NR. I'm not sure that that will be a fair gun fight (only based on price delta) but wouldn't it be amazing if you find you like the SR stuff better?! Do you have any power conditioning?
So I guess you have had the Nordost stuff on the Vidar? I need to talk to my dealer about that.
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whitecamaross
A cable shoot-out - Now, that is what I am talking about!Staying tuned. Happy Listening!
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