My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
Maybe we should write one for whatever system is being used where the last videos music sucked. If we all donated a small amount to the cause, we could help replace it with an Amazon Alexa so that it would at least sound ok. 
I hear you WC, hence I’ve mentoned FM Acoustics 268/C previously somewhere.
I too listen to A-Z genres, this preamp allows you to render/correct unlistenable recording listenable, and the good ones great.
Best thing is, ‘itself’, will easily stand head to head with any of today’s current SOTA, even Boulder 3010, CH new L10, not to mention Audionet-Stern, Pilium-Alexander etc. Hope you’ll get to try it some day and tell us what you think.
Only downside to me is their crazy price. Well not too bad anymore these days I supposed in time where SOTA everything in the $100-200k brackets are quite the norm!🤪
"I too listen to A-Z genres, this preamp allows you to render/correct unlistenable recording listenable, and the good ones great."

OMG I sure hope so.  FM Acoustics 268/C  retail $160k
@rbach Hell yeah.. and worst part is, unlike most other brands where we can haggle for good to great discounts—is their (FMA’s) strict worldwide nett price policy!
Jay,
I look forward to hearing your usual decent recordings on the Magico.  How about the best sounding recording you played, "Perhaps Love."

My favorite music are those recordings made by the great master violinists of the 1930's.  I don't listen to them on my system, but on youtube.  This way I enjoy the music and forget about judging the sound quality.  As kren0006 said, great sounding recordings of mediocre performances don't thrill me.  Most of my recordings are of good, and some great performers, in good sound.  A few are recordings of great performers in great sound.
Viber6 - As per your post - we would love to have you audition the new GT Reference 3 speakers- they are redesigned from the frames to the drivers- we have already upgraded some of Our loyal customers to the new Reference 3 drivers- unlike our competition where you take a big loss when they come out with a newer model 
see below video 
please wear headphones 
https://youtu.be/qhv1015PSPc
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Thanks faxer.  They sound clear and crisp.  I love the slender main driver, which appears about 7-8" wide.  This probably helps focus the sound.

Jay--imagine how they would sound with your ultra-revealing Mephisto + Pandora + DCS Rossini.
Interesting video. However, having just listened to both vids (and since what we do here is offer our opinions on sq) the Magnepan 20.7 beat the GTA both in sound quality (different room and equipment, acknowledged, but all we got to go on) and looks, WC video of 20.7 and Gryphon sounds better in my opinion. GTA sound lean to my ears. GTA beats the Magnepan 3.7i and Martin Logan 15A though, I’ll say.

Wilson Sasha DAW destroys all of them. My opinion.

See WC, you create a Friday night video vacuum and we’re reduced to commenting on JV material that others jump in to fill! No offense intended- indeed I thought sounded better than Martin Logan 15A.

oops, with this post I just violated my suggestion of not polluting thread with discussion of components WC has said he’s not interested in. Eeeks
viber

my Emerald Physics 3.4s with 12" concentric driver with polyester midrange focus unbelievably throws a gigantic 3 dimensional sound stage and are only 46" tall. Still waiting on the 2.8s. Sigh
I like the M3s.
But, on direct compare with Maggie 20.7 same song (man in the moon), they sound a little sluggish (little slower).
Caveat: playback limitations could be factor. 
That said I’d still pick M3 over 20.7 bc they exceed in other areas
Are you implying that you prefer m3 over the new reference gt audio speaker since you said you prefer the 20.7 over it ?
Yeah on initial listen but I gotta do it all over with my good headphones

just used phone so far so fwiw

also harder to compare gta with 20.7 bc electronics so different but I do like pass labs a lot also

just one person’s opinion of course but dynamics and slam important to me maybe more than others. Why? Because those are important parts of real music that I listen to
Ok no more assessments if you’re using your phone speaker please. It’s invalid lol
It's as if you are giving your opinion on something you have never heard lol. We all know how you feel about that. :)
Lol I bet that’s how 80% of folks listen to your vids! That’s what YT is about!
I hope that you are not telling the truth. If folks here are using their
O.59 cent phone speaker to judge components of the caliber that I am displaying, i hope they do this behind closed doors...don’t let me find out that some of the "hardcore" audiophiles that live here use phone speakers..... If they have luxmans, krells, b&w, nordost, shunyata,etc i don’t want to hear they don’t have $$500-$1000 dollars for a good set of headphones.... I think it is VERY FAIR to assume that ANYONE who follows my journey has a decent system so they aren’t exactly living paycheck to paycheck (i hope not).
I guarantee you that 99.99% of the people who read this thread have $500 dollars in the bank that they can spend on headphones if they feel like it. (if they feel like it of course)
Come on kren you of all people should know better than to make a judgement after listening from your phone. I mean it's hard enough to judge a component / speaker listening on a stereo computer or even headphones from a video on YouTube.

@faxer
Being that Jay is very influential and a video and review on his channel would be some of the best advertising you could get. Wouldn't it be in your best interest to find a way to send him a pair of your speakers you have been telling us about all this time? I've known Jay to even split the shipping cost to get a chance to review a product. I would love to see how your speakers compare to the many he has gone through....especially now with the associated equipment he has.
Well yeah, everyone probably has it available, but they are not all sitting by their systems waiting for your videos to come out. They come out at random times and people play them on their phone and move on with their life. If it is something they are really interested in they go back later and probably use their system to listen - I do that a lot. Unless they’re retired or not working or whatever and have tons of free time. I don’t think it’s something people schedule their busy lives around. Maybe they do, haha. No offense intended, but it’s youtube.

And pretty much every time I post an opinion of a listen from just phone I identify it as such, so settle down : )

I'm just saying that like it or not I would bet a ton of people just listen to the videos over their phones because of convenience.  
Right but the point is, and I guess this is a complement that your videos are interesting, when they come out I like to listen to them asap. I’m not carrying my big headphones around when I’m meeting with clients or taking my kids to hockey or eating breakfast or ....

I agree, if you want the best playback quality, use good equipment to do it. Duh. But what you really want is more views, and like it or not that will most likely involve most just using whatever is convenient at the moment. YT generation, after all ... When we get time to actually sit down and critically listen for hours at a time, even most on this thread are hopefully going to their own systems and not YT.  

I'm already dealing with a serious time-wastage problem with audio, as my wife continually reminds me, but that's another story......
Don’t get me started on the wife reminder of hours spent by day on this..
I have to drive far away for components...(20 hr drive for boulder 2110) so i have to have a balancing act that sometimes proves difficult.
No way! Your wife is a saint to put up with what you are doing. My favorite pic in the history timeline was still the baby stroller hidden by tons of speakers and amps.

"Jay, you’re watching the baby, right?"

"Oh yeah, she’s right here, in the stroller right behind the 802D3’s!!"

Love it!
Instead of headphones I throw the YT up on my TV and use my 2 Channel system to play audio through, very revealing.
@kren0006
I like the M3s.
But, on direct compare with Maggie 20.7 same song (man in the moon), they sound a little sluggish (little slower).


They are "slower" because they are on casters. However, if one listen carefully, you can tell how much more grainy the focal tweeter is. Many audiophiles like this, mistaking that for detail. The Focal also sounds like they are playing from a tunnel. That is probably the result of the D’Appolito arrangement. I will take the Magico!
Kren= wilson lover 
Techno = focal  lover
Viber = gt audio lover
Mheinze= magico lover
Wcss= ???????
WC == biggest Wilson lover of all

I’m actually a Spendor D series lover, if we want to get specific.

If you were to ever get the $11k flagship D9.2 to kick the butt of every inexpensive speaker you’ve ever had, I’d not put up with the slightest bit of criticism of it by anyone -- gloves come off then!!! hahaha
@whitecamaross

Any chance you can do another short summery of the amps you had post Luxman M-900u anytime soon?
I been following your lists, but after the Luxman you did a lot more cable comparisons & went super high end on some of the amps & I got lost on where your opinion stands on the them.


Listening to "Man in the Moon," the Stella has the greatest clarity on voice and guitar, followed by 20.7, and the worst, Magico M3. The voice is not well recorded and is mushy compared to the excellent intimacy/clarity of the guitar. The voice is muddy and chesty on the M3, better on the 20.7, and reasonably clear on the Stella. So there is little correlation between quality and money. The most expensive Stella is the best, and the still expensive M3 is the worst, with the 20.7 at least representing good value sound for the money.

Someone said that the Stella tweeter is grainy and unnatural.  I completely disagree. This "Man in the Moon" song has little bass, but the entire range from upper bass to HF is clearer on the Stella than the other speakers, so all the drivers in the Stella are top notch and well integrated to produce the best sound of the 3 speakers.
Well what do you know?  Viber and I agree on the relative rankings of the three speakers he mentioned as to one aspect (just one of many) of SQ. Fist bump, bro!!
If this is being evaluated via phone speakers, I’d like to know so I can scroll past this sort of analysis.
85k and 140k speakers being evaluated through a phone speaker is something I want to not rely on. Granted, people could lie and say they are using quality headphones when in reality they are still using the phone speaker at full blast while seating on the toilet.
Relying on your phone speaker to analyze this level of gear makes your analysis as valuable as you telling me you think I have herniated disc without doing a MRI to be 100% accurate of your findings. 

It’s subjective. One person’s opinion. Listened with good headphones, couple times. Not trying to convince anyone (never am), just my opinion.

Plenty (many or most) of YT comments on the vid also say others you’ve had recently are better. For the record I hadn’t read any of those comments before coming to my own opinion. Why so sensative? Scroll past it if you like, that’s cool.

I thought the point of all of this was that you want us to listen and offer up our opinions? Sometimes that means we will not like the latest and current entry to the room as much as what preceded it, especially when you go backwards in price tier. You have the best opportunity to provide the comparative analysis but you haven’t compared them yet against the others so in meantime...

I stand by earlier statement that I’d take M3 over 20.7, definitely for other reasons cumulatively, but for clarity and quickness I give it to 20.7 (and in post above I was clear that I’m only agreeing with Viber on that one narrow aspect as to Stella, M3, 20.7 -- I suspect Viber would say because of that one aspect that he’d rank 20.7 in totality above M3 full stop, because he generally tends to view clarity as the only factor that really matters, but he can speak for himself).

Also, the comparison for me anyway was only done wrt the common song "man in the moon." Does that mean it wouldn’t change with other common songs? Not necessarily. Just preliminary findings.

I don’t think anyone really cares what Viber or I say about SQ anyway, so it’s not like we’re negatively impacting your resale value in any meaningful way.

At end of day I draw the conclusion (with caveat that it's just YT, blah, blah, blah -- when I get to point of spending this kind of $ I'll verify in person) for myself only that probably Magico isn’t my favorite sounding speaker at that cost level, just as I did with D’agostino and Ayre when you had those components. Personal preference.


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But while we’re at it, go back to last Wilson Alexia 2 video where Man in Moon played or second last video where Keith Don’t Go is played. Wilson does it best of all, top to bottom. Listen to the guitar realness come across in those presentations; listen to the dynamic swings; listen to the coherency top to bottom - nothing overemphasized (no overbiting treble), nothing missing. It feels like you are right there in the room.  It's the reason even WC can live with Wilson for a year straight, rather than jettisoning everything else within days or weeks (and why I predict Alexx incoming soon).

I’ll take Wilson over everything so far, there, I said it. hahahaha (others will disagree and that’s cool)
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With all due respect, kind of dangerous to assume what others can and cannot afford. Not only that, it is a bad look to be throwing out there. Doesn’t reflect well.

What I would say is that you have no way of knowing, first, and second you might be very surprised when making assumptions like that. But regardless, not even sure why that is even relevant???

That said, I agree with you that people try to justify their reasons for what they have, and for purchasing decisions or decisions to get rid of something they had previously. But I submit that is a two-way street.......
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Fair enough. I’ll avoid mentioning those on the thread you’ve privately complained to me about and asked me to call out ....... out of respect for confidentiality
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Using my stereo Mac computer I queued up Man In The Moon on the Focal's, Magico's, Wilson's and Maggie's. I listened at least 6 times with each speaker. I concentrated mainly on clarity, definition and pinpoint imaging of Nils vocal presentation. Each speaker was very different the way it presented the vocals and the accompanying guitar. The Focal's were by far the best. Nils voice was pinpoint dead center, highly focused and natural sounding. His guitar was just below the vocal image with by far the most natural acoustic sound. The natural warmth of the guitar was clearly evident. The Wilson's I felt were next best. The vocals were dead center and focused but didn't quite have the natural sound of the Focal's. The guitar sounded good but was more diffused and more spread out over the soundstage vs the Focal's which was just below Nils voice and highly focused. Next I placed the Magico's. Very disappointed here. I found the vocals diffused. The soundstage was vast but nothing was clearly defined. The guitar seemed to be spread out between the speakers, also the tonal balance sounded thin in upper bass and didn't have the richness of the Focal's. I'm guessing the Mpods would alleviate these problems...hopefully. The Maggie's vocal presentation I thought was good but it was spread out and not quite as focused as the others. The guitar sounded like it was coming out in equal parts from both speakers and not centered below Nils voice. The tonal balance was not up to the other speakers, but for the $ I was very impressed with this speaker.  

Being that none of the speakers were properly anchored to the floor I'm sure had a lot to do with precise imaging...had they have been I'm guessing the Magico's and Wilson's would have fared better. As far as the Focal's...wow, the sky is the limit on those speakers!

BTW I have a BA in music from NTSU with my instrument being the guitar. I'm very sensitive to recorded acoustic guitar. The Focal's sounded very close to live natural acoustic guitar to me....well, as close as can be expected played from a YouTube video through a stereo computer....my 2 cents, YMMV
Excellent analysis by ron17.  I also listen on my stereo iMac desktop computer.  The built in speakers have decent HF response.  They are good enough that I appreciate the general superior sound Jay has in his room.  Whatever deficiencies in bass from the iMac speakers are not relevant to the song, "Man in the Moon."  I don't like even great headphones, which are deficient in HF, compared to the free air openness of good speakers.  If I use headphones, I hold them away from my ears by up to 1".  This allows open space, although the bass is cut.  Headphones on the head are like speakers too close to walls.
THANK YOU RON for the analysis above. That was well articulated and you did an awesome job explaining what you heard. You have given me a lot to think about !
Please let the Magico M3 settle in before making any precipitated judgment. 
They are far from broken in, and are not on their dedicated footers yet.


Also, FWIW, John Atkinson reviewed a Vimberg speaker for $31K and hinted that they have more HF air than the Magico M2 he reviewed a few months before that.  Putting the M3 on the dedicated pods will improve the sound, but when the 20.7 for 15% the price beats the M3 as is, I'd say forget it, Magico.
@viber6
Also, FWIW, John Atkinson reviewed a Vimberg speaker for $31K and hinted that they have more HF air than the Magico M2 he reviewed a few months before that.

Perhaps, but you forgot to mention that it is the M2, not the Vimberg, who got his vote for loudspeakers of the year, and by a wide margin (https://www.stereophile.com/content/stereophiles-products-2020-loudspeaker-year).

There is a lot more to good sound than a splashy top end, which the Focals are notorious for. Not all ears are tuned to that (you can look at measurements, if you don’t hear it). In fact, some will argue that they gave Beryllium the bad rap it has.

The magic of Magico is their balance. If set up properly (which our gracious host did not bother to do ☹), nothing stands out, for better or worse, yet it is all there. Some can find it boring, but for longevity, mostly if you listen to ’mildly’ engineered music like Classical and Jazz, they are in a league of their own.(https://www.stereophile.com/content/stereophiles-products-2020-editors-choice)