Tomorrow's video:
We will start big and with a different linestage: Boulder 2110.
Stay tuned to see what the Boulder 2110 sounds like with the Gryphon Mephisto and Focal Stella UTOPIA EVO. This will be our starting point with the Boulder 2110. Expect for me the take it up a few notches down the road. |
Jay,
I like the concave time alignment of the MTM (midrange-tweeter-midrange) drivers. This is suggestive of the Wilson Chronosonic time alignment. Draw lines perpendicular to each of the MTM drivers, and they will meet at a certain distance where the time alignment is perfect. That is the best seat for midrange-HF coherence, clarity and focused imaging. Other distances won't be bad, due to the good dispersion of each of the MTM drivers. This concave time alignment could explain how this larger speaker images better than the Alexia 2, as you said.
It appears that there is no means to adjust the angle of the MTM drivers. It would be an improvement if they did that, because then you could choose to sit at different distances to get the midrange-bass balance you want and maintain the ideal sweet spot for midrange-tweeter balance, clarity, coherence and imaging.
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Really fun to compare it to the Wilson Alexia 2 video, albeit with different preamps (Boulder here with Focal, WA using Pandora).
Almost sounds to me like the Alexias are slightly more muscular on the Man in the Moon track, but the Focals little more refined.
Really fun to compare. I know which I prefer. Both sound amazing.
Edit: oh and the WA color matches your room better ; ) |
Alexia has more muscle but that is just Wilson in general. That said, the refinement on the Stella is leagues above the Alexia 2 - as it should be.
Not even close in terms of resolution either. The beryllium tweeters always have more information and air than most soft domes. I’m discovering so much more in the music that wasn’t there or wasn’t so evident on my previous Wilson Alexia and Sasha.
The only thing I give the nod to Wilson on are the dynamics but everything else (imaging, detail, bass tightness and speed, overall clarity, etc) goes to the Stella. I’m not even going to get into the conversation of how room dependent Wilson audio is. They need the proper room to really do what they do. The flexibility of the stella is in a different league when comparing to all my previous speakers.
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Yeah but which color is better? haha |
Hard to pick color. They both are beautiful in my opinion. I have a thing for blue speakers all of a sudden. I never realized how sick I was of black colors until I bought blue speakers. |
Since you love Be tweeters, the other speaker type to consider is the Tekton Moab, Encore or Ulf with Be tweeters going down to 270 Hz. Why doesn't Focal use Be midrange drivers? Their cabinetry is more sophisticated than Tekton. But the Stellas are not going anywhere due to their weight, and being the best speaker you have ever owned. Will you keep the Stellas until your 50th birthday, or even a year? LOL. |
Over/under is New Years Eve
Over -140
Under +105 |
So for many of you who like statistics and believe in numbers, here is something interesting:
The video I posted today, only 8 hrs ago, already has 1,000 views and yet my channel only has 2200 subscribers. I’ve never ever had so much traction with Wilson speakers and once I put the focal Stella evo on my channel, people are watching it more than ever.
Does this mean people want to see more of Focal than Wilson? Or does it mean they want to see 6 digit speakers play music instead of "average" speakers?
I’m very interested in any educated input on this.... I have not arrived at a conclusion thus far. I’m interested in hearing from you.
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I think its the fact that you have a wonderful Focal loudspeaker, not the cost/price. I would not consider Wilson, as you had, "average". I do not own Focal, but nearly purchased a pair in the past, and sort of regret not doing so. I loved the sound.
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I didn’t mean average as in average sound. I meant average as in there are quite a few people who own sasha or Alexia and very little with Stella. Here is a response I got from 2 followers:
"Hmmm I think it’s the High dollar equipment that is attracting the views. I’m guessing if it was the Magico M6 it would be the same. Audiophiles are very interested to hear what they cannot have....but wish for. If you were constantly reviewing Rotel, Bryston, B&W etc.... it would be more of the same that’s on YouTube. What you are now doing is way out of the norm. I get way more interested when you are reviewing high $ gear"
"I think it's a combo of a well marketed brand and very expensive speaker. There are probably tons of music demos on the internet Alexia 2 in someone's room, but very few of the Stella because there are only like 8 pairs on the US" |
Focal is accessible to any audiophile, because they make $1,000 speakers. Yours aren’t but Focal is nonetheless.
Wilson is not accessible to all but maybe 10-20% of audiophiles, and probably a fair percentage have never heard Wilson speakers or know much about them.
Motor Trend vs Car & Driver
Edit: looks like my theory is almost directly opposite the anonymous opinion. Who knows. I spent about 10 seconds formulating it so, you know ... |
Another response I got from a dealer:
" Wilson is tiny in comparison to focal. Focal has the bigger name in many industries: car audio, headphones, home theater, etc) and they have the bigger audience since Europe is larger. You are now appealing more to the European Audiophile than ever before. You also are displaying what could arguably be in a conversation for one of the best speakers made today. People are kinda of tired of the same best buy names such as kef, martin Logan, b&w d3, etc. How many people want to read about a Honda civic with a new exhaust system? Thousands, but how many want to read about super cars? Hundredths of thousands want to read" |
My guess is it's the high $ gear. I'm more interested in gear that's slightly above my pay grade than gear that's below what I can afford....That's not to say affordable / budget gear can't sound wonderful, it can. My audiophile friends are all slightly over extended and are on the lookout for the next level up.
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Interesting feedback. Curious to hear from the rest ? |
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Interesting article...thx. I was a little surprised to read his thoughts on the following.
"Cones and domes only. Although I’ve spent years listening, at audio shows and in dealers’ showrooms, to horn, planar-magnetic, electrostatic, ribbon, and hybrid speakers of all sorts, I’ve never heard any that produced what I thought was the very highest-fidelity sound. If any of those types of speakers are your thing, that’s great -- but they’ve never been mine, so I can’t include them here."
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I posted an article that was sent to me which I shared with you all. Just because I don't really believe what they say doesn't mean I can't share content on this thread. That article literally came out today so I thought some of you might find it interesting.
I also posted it because there has been very little activity so I figure it can't hurt. |
I enjoyed the article WC sent and take it for what it is. Also, interesting reviews of Dartzeel CTH 8550 MkII integrated amplifier and the Simaudio 860a v2 (both in stereo and mono) in HiFi+ released today. Fun to read and interesting to reflect on how one's own experience may or may not agree.
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@zprr:
Can you post the link if it's available? |
By the way:
For those of you who saw wilson not being recommened due to the fact that Wilson doesn’t advertise with them, can you explain to me why he recommended tidal when tidal also doesn’t advertise with them either? and why didn't he place Focal as one of the brands of recommended speakers when focal AND NAIM adverstise? what about Vivid audio not being one of his top choices yet they advertise? how about Gobel & Estelon? they don't advertise either....
I think you all missed that? ... |
Also interesting is that the article says Gryphon and Focal just missing the mark to be included. What is that? They fit in the price bracket. You know you just have to take these articles for what their worth. We will never know all that influences a reviewer to choose a product. The only reviewer that matters is you yourself. When it come down to it it’s you personal preference anyway. |
Jay, the author of the link you posted owns speakers from a sister company of Tidal (Vimberg). Maybe, just maybe there's a different level of advertising going on here - nah, probably not. Just a coincidence...
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You're absolutely correct @carey1110 . Listening for yourself is the best test. Just because something isn't mentioned in some magazine sponsored by manufacturing dollars doesn't mean everything else out there should be disqualified from these types of lists. |
@carey1110
yes i agree with you
@golfnutz:
yes i am aware he owns them, but that still does not explain the rest of the coincidences? focal, naim, estelon, gobel, vivid audio? etc, etc.
To me, it just stood out that he did not have Wilson Audio there since they are a big player in the speaker world. I do not expect Focal to be on every magazine or reviewer’s top list because the Utopia line is so hard to find out and about. Not many dealers carry the big Stellas and Grandes, but there are plenty of dealers of Alexx and XLF. i do not think i have ever seen a Stella in person until i bought mine. Who knows what the "underlying" criteria was to make this list. Only they know.
Now, when it comes to amplifiers, i will say that if Gryphon does not make any top amplifiers reviewer’s list (at least top 3-5), that will be because he has never heard or reviewed one. No reviewer will ever convince ME that Gryphon does not belong in the top list amplifiers in the world. That is what is great about sitting with the Mephisto: You have this feeling that when something does not sound good, you are the person that has an issue and not the amplifier.
Perfect example was me yesterday: i tried like 3 different times to listen and i could not sit down to enjoy the presentation. i just could not let the music flow and that is when i realized that i was too tired since i had gone to bed at 3am because i was listening to music. As of the last 2-3 months, if my system does not sound "good" then i know i am too tired to listen. My mind is playing tricks on me and that is a reality with audio. We get used to the sound and then we think things sound "ok" even though we were blown away just a few days ago. |
I wouldn’t worry about Wilson not receiving his recommendation. When you’re at to top there’s alway someone trying to take you down. Maybe he thought Wilson is so successful they don’t need any help. Wilson is Probably the best selling “High End” speaker in the US. People voted with their pocket book. Wilson is up there because so many people love and enjoy them. In fact so many companies compare their sound to bettering the Wilson as a goal to exceed. Great company IMHO of course.
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Simple answer: personal preference. Nothing more, nothing less. |
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@whitecamaross , great videos bro. Thanks for sharing them.
Those people watching your last video may come back for your next one. Ask them to subscribe to your channel so that you are able to provide more content.
If you polished your format a little you may be able to get a substantial following. In my opinion, there are only 3-4 “audiophile” you tubers that get watched regularly and 2 of them are only so so. I’ve watched many young adults, 25 years old, automotive you tubers become very wealthy over the past 4 years on you tube. Audio doesn’t have the huge following like cars but you tube really only has a couple audiophile vloggers so in my opinion, there actually is space for you to fill.
If I were you, with your gear and the few followers you do have, you ought to press in harder on the you tube front. I imagine if you got 500k followers, you tube would be giving you checks ghat you could use to buy more stereo gear and grow your channel.
just a thought! |
Hi WC, I could not find individual links to those reviews yet but was able to download the full issue of HiFi+ November 2020 to read them.
On your point above, it is funny, I was away from my system for 2 weeks (left playing while away) and was listening for first time last night... I was like this sounds off, something is not right. I truly hope I was just tired and things sound better tonight. |
WC, I'm wondering if you ever had the chance, or the desire, to take a look and listen to the Vandersteen Model 7 loudspeakers. With your deep experience it would be very interesting to hear your reaction. |
@zprr:
It's your head playing tricks. Make sure you get some rest before you listen critically. Lately, i have understood myself better with doing critical analysis. If I am having an awesome listening session then I'll do whatever it takes to not cut it short and go as late as possible because I don't know how the next day will be. I haven't been able to connect with my system again since Saturday night. I know when my mind is tired and not paying any attention to music even if I try.
I don't expect for this phenomenon to affect everyone the same. I am only speaking about me.
@rpeluso
I almost bought a pair of that exact model last month but things didn't work out. I will say that I have heard other vanderdsteen models and wasn't exactly floored. That said, i have been told that he model 7 is supposed to be really good which is why I was looking to buy it.
For now, i don't have any immediate plans to buy any speakers soon but who knows and maybe I decide to do another magico speaker to finish the year. |
Wow I’m away one week, and the Wilsons Alexia 2 are gone !
And Focal are back in. Cool for sure. 😃
WC, remember how many times I told you Wilsons don’t have the resolution of Focals. Now you see the light. It’s mostly in the driver tech. Focal has mastered... Like Magico and Dynaudio, they make their own.
Also, with the Stella you get 2 midrange drivers per speakers. That makes a huge difference in a big room at higher volume. ( clarity with tall imaging). This is why speakers with the d’ Apolito arrangement is so popular among diyers. Most of the time they add a pair of quick subwoofers to those and get huge sound that can rival some well known models.
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Most that read this thread cannot afford $140K speakers. How about a speaker that would rival it for $14K or less. And maybe do some things better.
A fully modded Tekton Ulfberht would do the trick. $9K stock and $9,5K (including delivery) with the single Beryllium tweeter upgrade. Then you remove the stock xover and place it behind the speaker on a damped shelf. You change every single xover part to the best you can afford (at least as good as what's in the Focal...probably better). You wire each driver using super wire and run that wire out the back and hardwire it to the xover. You hardwire the woofer wires directly to the voice coil wires (with strain relief). You put Ground Enhancers on the output of all the xover feeds. You felt around all the 15 tweeters on the front.....you add extra bracing inside the cabinet....and maybe some wool in there too. You use my binding post bypass system on the input of the xover so there are now zero connectors in series. The mods would probably run around $2K or so.....you still have plenty of wiggle room before you even get to $14K (one tenth the cost of the Focal). You have 14 low mass tweeters acting as two midranges in d'appolito configuration. You have good time alignment between the mids and tweets since they have the voice coils in the same exact plane. You have two 12 inch woofs and 4 seven inch mid bass units for super fast transient response. You have higher sensitivity. You have incredible dynamics and transparency at all frequencies. The only thing you are giving up is the bass adjustability of the Focal......of course, you could bi-amp the ulfberht's and use an equalizer on the bass....for even better and smoother response than the Focal. Please read all the reviews on the Ulfberht, Encore and Moab to get an idea just how good the STOCK Tektons are.
The problem with the the Ulfberht is that it does cost enough for the elite to buy it and it looks like a big box. And since only about 5% of audiophiles are even into DIY.......then what I just wrote is for the super hot rodder who wants it all on a budget and likes to tweek. I have one friend with the Ulfberht's and he as done 65% of the xover mods and felted the front and says it is way, way better than stock. He does not have the Beryllium tweeter option. He drives them with mono block tube amps that cost something like $6K and he plays drums and the Ulfberht makes drums in the room REAL It's too bad he does not have a Utube channel.....I bet you all would be blown away. Many roads up the mountain. |
Ricevs:
I appreciate your post above. I unfortunately can't make that happen. Let me ask you, have you done what you proposed above ?
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@WCSS
Between your day job, your family, this thread and your YouTube channel, surely you have time to modify a pair of Tektons.
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Like I said, a friend, with my encouragement, did half of the stuff I suggested. I have done everything I have suggested to my own speakers (planar based mids and highs) and have modified electrostats and and cone speakers in the past.so I know what it all does.
If you have never done something like this then modding a huge speaker is out of the question (lots of time and lots of practical knowledge needed, not to mention help lifting and laying down the speakers). This has to be a love. Most audiophiles are "plug and play" people.
Hot rodding cars is so different. I would say 90% of hot rodders do their own work or take their car to someone who tweaks it. You get your new $70K corvette and you immediately take it to someone who will add another 100 horsepower. Everything in cars can be know by anyone. Audio is completely different. There is no race course....every man for himself. There is no "best of anything". It is always changing and the more you know the more you know nothing.....it is infinite. If every brand of solder has a sound.....if every wire has a sound....if every stand has a sound.....if every room has a sound. If every component has a sound.....if every resistor has a sound....if every connector has a sound....etc. etc. etc. into infinity....you get the idea. Top fuel dragsters all look alike and perform very close to each other. Audio is all over the place and there is absolutely no consensus on anything. BUT, if you are intelligent you can find very transparent gear at most any price. Since I can personally mod and tweak everything I would probably never own any expensive piece of gear since I can make or modify something for a dime on the dollar. If I had a lot of money I would do something else with the left over that would help raise the level of Love and Joy and happiness and Hope for all humanity. |
ricevs
How much do you think you could sell a self modified Tekton? I would be hard pressed to give you 25% of the investment no matter how good it sounded because in reality that’s all it would be worth on the market. |
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To the right person......they would definitely pay above the normal "used price" if the modding were done to a serious degree and all pictured, etc.
This is the way the "plug and play" people sometimes think. It is all about resale value because they have no idea of intrinsic worth. They also think they will always sell everything very quickly. Obviously, this kind of mod is for those that want to keep it and keep tweaking a serious state of the art speaker for years and years. What is going to beat it at its price point? Not likely for years. Check out Miller Carbon's post on his $4500 Moab's.....he is modding them and will, no doubt, keep them for years, just like his previously modded speakers. I bet his modded Moab's would kill a lot of seriously expensive speakers. What if you buy a $40K speaker......how much will you lose when you sell it?.......a lot more than selling a tweaky deaky $12K speaker. |
Tecno, you’re comparing a 50k speaker with a 140k speaker, try comparing something in the Wilson lineup that compares in price instead. Then the comparison I’m sure would be much closer. The Wilson’s sounded great, so I can’t see any room for complaining. Your posts on the subject seem to indicate that you think Jay was trying to push sales of certain items. He’s proven that he’s not married to any product. It’s been made clear your mileage may vary based on your own preferences. Now that he has focals, it seems he’s stopped shilling for a speaker line now? You have to try things before you know what they will do. Unlike most, he has the means to try them all out in his system, therefore able to take a path that most just could not, and most who could, wouldn’t be intrested in for time and effort reasons. Rice, I do think the Tekton’s bone stock with just the be tweeters could play with the alexia’s and focals. Add the all be array, and since Eric seems to be willing to do just about any upgrade, get him to make all the additions you mentioned. The price will be higher for his extra labor of course. I’m not one for doing mods myself, so that’s the route I’d go. Wouldn’t win any beauty contests, but I don’t think the Wilson’s or focals are that great looking either. |
speedbump6,
I'm with you on Tekton Moab/Ulf with all Be tweeters, which are probably SOTA for dynamic box speakers, for $14K/$21K. For finishing touches, ricevs could come for a few days to do his mods. It only remains for Eric to get you the stock Moab and Ulf you ordered, so you can actually report on how great they might be.
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I have not seen a comment on an all Be tweeter version of a Tekton. No doubt it would have more information......but would it be musical? And if you did the mods to it would it still be listenable. Where as the soft dome tweeters are described as sounding like an electrostat with the stock wire and xover parts and binding posts. So, you know it would sound outrageously better with better wire, xover parts and hardwired on the input. I personally would rather have a tweaked speaker with the soft domes than a stock speaker with all Be tweeters.....a lot less money, as well. and you can tune it to your taste. But, an all out Be version with just the right tweaks could be even better.
You cannot assume that the "lighter" driver will give the best sound. It is all a synergy.....as WC likes to say. |
There was a nice week or two stretch where the thread was refocused on WC’s journey. What happened? It seems like the lengthy, reoccurring Tekton posts perhaps should be on different thread at this point. I think we all caught the drift awhile ago. WC can correct me of course. |
@zprr
Agreed, those of you who are fans of the Tektons have made it clear to Jay that you would like him to try them.
@ricevs I literally thought you were joking when reading your post with all the mods.
BTW, I have heard the Tekton Double impacts twice in good home systems and was ready to be impressed but I did not hear anything that got me excited. |
I have the ulfs viber, just waiting on the moabs. All the dates given keep coming and going. Zprr we are all kind of discussing higher end products here, so I think it’s relevant. Just some what if talking is all. Rice, you’re welcome to come upgrade my speakers for me if you like, lol. Have no idea what all be would sound like, but I imagine it might be better depending on preferences. Until someone does it, guess we will never know. Either way, I’m not into doing mods and Jay has made it clear he’s not either. I’m sure everyone has some idea of what speaker could maybe be better than whatever speaker he chose to get. |
Agree with you zprr, this thread is listed under category of amps and preamps but lately has been all about speakers. |
