More thoughts on mephisto Tonight:
1. If I plug the dac and the clock into the Niagara 5000 using nordost Odin 1 powercords, more detail shows up but also things get bright. If I just plug the dac and clock into the outlet using nordost Odin 1, there’s a little less air but brightness decreases significantly.
2. Mephisto makes the Merrill audio 118s sound less muscular and leaner on the bass which is a shock because I NEVER thought that until the mephisto arrived.
3. Audioquest hurricane Powercords work better on the amp than on dac
4. Odin 1 powercords continue to kill ANY POWERCORD I’ve ever owned when plugged into the dac. Odin 2 was awesome but I feel Odin 1 powercord is far better value.
5. Subpar cables sound like they are a 720p signal instead of 4k.
6. Buying mephisto only gets you the best ingredient but now it will be your turn to cook. No matter how good the ingredients are, if the cook sucks, so will the food..
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Have you tried the SR sx power cord? Haven’t seen any SR mentioned, I’ve gone to a full SR setup, but no idea how that might compare |
I haven't yet...will probably do at some point. |
Is the Merrill leaner than Mephisto in midrange as well as bass? How about HF, warmth/sweetness?
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Bass- I don't think that I've had more control in the bass department than mephisto. The king prior to it was the Colosseum and I don't think it has more balls than mephisto since there is a huge power discrepancy in person... |
I asked about midrange and HF, thanks. The Bryston 4B SST2 had more balls in bass than my 2.5B SST2, but was vastly inferior to the 2.5 in the musically important midrange/HF, at modest volumes, of course.
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WC the mephisto uses 2 ac cords but are they 20amp inlets like the merrill 118's? Just curious. |
What about trying Ayre amps, instead of trying again their KX-R 20 preamp which was not onpar with the REF 6 SE last time you did a shootout... |
Those are the inferior component out of ayre...not good...no grip or balls. Their preamp is the star of the show. |
@rsf507
They are 15a PCs on the mephisto. |
@whitecamaross
To clarify, I've not heard Alexia 2s with the Wilson Subsonic subs. But have heard both the Alexx and XVX with Subsonic subs. Subs are like $110k, so probably not really a good investment for Alexia 2s. I don't know what the Thor's Hammer subs cost or what they sound like.
I have heard the Alexia 2s with very large REL subs and DID NOT like it at all. This was at a dealer well inland from me, not my local dealer. |
The question becomes can a system be so resolving as to take the joy out of the music listening? As the pleasure meter moves up with more resolution is there a point where it begins to move down if the resolution get beyond a certain point revealing the flaws of reproduced music. Live music is the ultimate resolution but it comes with a pleasant emotional response. Live music is always our reference point isn’t it? I think Keeping this in mind will help when evaluating a system. |
If you hear it in person and it sounds good, then it should sound just as good in your home. The exception might be when it’s too dry, and sucks the life out of it. Other than that, if it’s there in person, I’d like to here it in my system. If it had warts in person, then my system is masking it and therefore masking all music in order to deal with the lowest common denominator. I’m not a fan of that. |
If the system moves you Emotionally in the way live music does then you are there. Hearing all the “music” is definitely what we want I agree. |
carey1110,
Classical music is so complex that there can never be too much resolution. All recordings have flaws, but higher resolution enables you to hear more of the good. The trick is to be aware of the flaws, but look on the good side to show the intricate details. As speedbump6 nicely put it, don't go for the lowest common denominator where both the virtues and flaws are thrown away. |
I agree my system is very resolving as well and I absolutely agree with you when it come to symphonic music. Trying get all the instruments clearly delineated along with the wood tone and harmonics is a real challenge. I think a system that can resolve a large symphony can do just about anything. Agree balance is key |
@whitecamaross
WC/Jay,
You had earlier commented that the bass in alexia is way better and digs in a lot deeper compared to sasha daw.
are you sure it is due to the speaker and not due to amp mephisto.
because you did not a get chance to try DAW with mephisto, right?
although specs dont fully matter, but if you look at the low frequency response of sasha daw its 20hz and alexia is just 1hz better and its 19hz.
which makes me wonder how if bass performance for sasha daw and alexia should not be night and day difference but a small incremental difference.
can you clarify your thoughts on this aspect. |
goodsource,
Specs don't tell the whole story--we all know that. For example, all amps are flat down to 20 Hz or lower. When I heard the Merrill 114, it was much more dynamic and deep compared to my other amps, which are lighter in character. Similar reasoning for speakers. Aside from slightly more bass extension, the larger bass drivers of the Alexia vs the DAW may create more power and ease in the midbass. In classical music which has deep bass in only a few pieces, most of the bass power resides in the midbass.
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@viber6
yes i agree with you. alexia has slightly better specs than sasha and even yvette has 10 inch bass driver.
since WC said alexia digs in way deeper, it would have been great if there was a chance to check daw with mephisto to see if the increased bass is out of the merit of mephisto or alexia. or if mephisto when mated with sasha daw can also dig way deeper as well or not. |
Gentleman having owned the Sasha Daw and now own the Alexia 2 I can tell you without changing anything in my system but the speakers, they are night and day. Whitecamaross has stated the differences quite well.
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@goodsource.
Don’t forget I owned the Alexia 1 before the DAW...I already had a reference point when I got to the DAW. The scale of the Alexia is one step higher than Daw. This scale includes the bass and massive bottom end.
I believe Carey owns Alexia 2 as well and he came from the DAW. That said, the Daw is amazing in many ways but in rooms that are too tall or deep, the DAW has no muscle there.
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Well, I just spent 5 hours moving the speakers around the room.
I made vast improvement and ended up with the Alexia being about one full foot farther away from me so I am now 11 feet away from them and they are 9 feet apart. The sound is HUGE, wide, smoother and the bass only hits when it should. There is no doubt that Wilson takes HARD WORK to set up. Having owned many other speakers, Wilson is hands down the hardest one to set up properly, but once you do...LOOKOUT!
They are still breaking in fyi so I am sure they will move a little more from their new position. With all that said, now it takes more power to open them up because they are farther away from me but I am glad I don’t have power shortages :)
No mephisto playtime today fyi. I have had the Merrill audio 118s on all day and night burning in the speakers.
Very soon we will begin to try the ARC REF6SE on the amps. I anticipate having about 150 hours of playtime on the speakers by Saturday night but they probably need around 400-500 at a minimum. Saturday could be a preliminary run but by the end of the month the Alexia should be right at around 500 hours which is when we will go full throttle. More to come !
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Sorry Jay, but these last comments with regards to setting up Wilson speakers makes you sound like a novice still. Unless you're a trained and certified Wilson Audio installer, 5 hours is just getting started. Unfortunately, you'll probably move on to something else before finding the ideal speaker placement. It could take up to a month before you realize you need to move them again, because you haven't played enough music in there current position to be totally satisfied everything sounds just right. A lot of times this happens sooner than later (1-3 days), but you really need to run them through a lot of testing material before making any declarations. 5 hours would be an absolute dream for Wilson speakers. |
@whitecamaross Have you had any experience with High Fidelity cables? I am now looking for a set of balanced ICs to go between my pre and Mephisto and a set of new speaker cables. I know, that
Rick Schultz had some issues with his speaker cables in the past, but corrected them with the current products. I tried an HFC Ultimate power cord some time ago and was very impressed with overall transparency and resolution of that cable.
What other brands of ICs and speaker cables can you recommend for Mephisto / Sasha combo?
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@golfnuts
Youre right. I am sure I'll keep playing around more with their positioning. I am not done but I feel I have found an improvement with that I did last night. More will be done as they get more playtime. |
@abedirov Check out Ansuz D2 series of cables, it's pretty much Nordost Odin 2 level for less money.
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@thieliste What other cable brands have you compared Ansuz D2 to? |
Two months on my Alexia 2s and I’m just starting to realize and anticipate what a difference 1 inch will make to the right, left, front, back for each speaker etc. The skill comes when you can anticipate what the change will be before you do it, Im not quite there yet. So it does take a while to understand and learn what each movement will do , in your room, to your soundstage, tonal balance, Imaging, bass response etc. Ie: Depending on your room moving the speaker an inch will effect everything slightly. Sometimes slightly is all you need. Ported speaker like dipoles can be tricky. This is both science and art. The science part is easy but the art of it takes time and talent. I’m still a novice but learning is the fun part. Whitecamaross has quite a challenge because he uses a lot of different cables and electronics which are other variables that can also affect speaker placement as well. Takes time and work but the payoff is there. |
I'm almost 30 yrs with a couple of Wilson Audio speaker models. I've spent hundreds of hours playing around with positioning in different rooms (moving from one home to another), and I would still consider myself to be a novice. |
Odin 2 pc Is better than Odin 1 but I didn't really make sense to do Odin 2 unless you do the full loom. I believe Odin 2 is amazing but Odin 1 is probably the better price/performance ratio. |
thieliste,
According to your own listening, what is the tonal character of Ansuz cables, any of them? Have you A/B'ed against Nordost?
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A well known audiophile in Montreal ( he died a couple years ago doing his passion which is moto , may he rest in peace). He had a pair of Wilson Alexandria coupled to a pair of Thor subwoofers. Only the best in dac, amps , turntable, etc.
Well on e day he decided to sell the Wilson. He replaced the with the best Bower & Wilkins and never turned back.
I believe B&W is really just a superior maker than Wilson, as they have done more research and development producing the best in house drivers in the buisness. And Wilson are just plain ugly, no design , just a stacked boxes look...
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tonights video will be about answering some of the questions i have been getting on youtube. Stay tuned for that. I also talk about Mcintosh and my opinion of the brand. You won't want to miss it! |
I don't disagree with people's personal choices when it comes to speakers because it is about WHAT YOU HEAR and sounds BEST to YOU.
That said, having owned a lot of different speaker brands, i have always been impressed by the Wilson "jump" factor. It has huge dynamics that very few speakers have. When you dial in a Wilson Audio speaker properly, it is incredible, BUT it really REALLY needs the right room.
As far as looks, that is also subjective, BUT it certainly does not have the wife approval factor. I will not deny it, but neither does the b&w.
I am a panel person at heart if i am being honest, but panels are HUGE and take up so much room so i understand why some people don't want to deal with them.
Lastly, and as a FYI, it does not break my heart if people hate Wilson Audio for one reason or another. I am not married to it so those comments really go right over my head. Today i have Wilson and Magnepan and next thing you know i have Fyne Audio, Vivid Audio (again), etc. |
@carey1110. @whitecamaross
thanks for clarifying on alexia’s superior performance compared to DAW.
Jay/WC
one thing which intrigues me that yours is the only setup i have seen where you place the speaker so much away from wall.
90% of daw and alexia setup photos and rooms and including dealer listenings rooms, i have not seen anybody place this far away from wall.
i agree that odin1 is better than odin2 in price to performance ratio.
but in true price/performance ratio even odin1 sucks along the spectrum of cables.
Jay/WC, Based on your experience with various cable which cable or cables models (power , Speaker and XLR ) do you think have the best price to performance ratio , especially i meant cables for sasha daw and alexia
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@viber6. i have the same question on ansuz. many dealers who carry both ansuz and nordost say that even an ansuz c2 is far better than odin 1
@whitecamaross or anyone has any thoughts on ansuz vs nordost. c2 vs valhalla 2 or c2 vs odin 1 or odin 2 |
Odin 1 xlr is better then ansuz c2 xlr. I have owned both.
I like playing with my Wilson speakers out from the wall. Shows don't have the space in their rooms to do what I do because they need to accommodate a bunch of chairs. Having enough space behind the speaker allows for more depth and feeling that there is no wall behind. |
pretty strong comments @goodsource
how do these “many dealers” describe “even an ansuz c2” as “far better” than odin? sincere question and particularly curious in light of WC’s finding |
WC's Wilsons sound much clearer than at a well known dealer. I hated their muddy quality in a modest sized room where they were close to the front wall. (This was also true of Avalons close to the front wall). In their larger room, a larger Wilson was well out into the room, and sounded much clearer. It wasn't due to the larger Wilson, but due to room placement.
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I have not A/B'ed Ansuz and Nordost directly but have auditioned them separately.For the price difference obviously D2 wins against Odin 2, they are very close and i would say D2 is more musical and has more density with the transparency of Odin 2.It is also less bright than Odin 2.I've also heard Synergistic Research Galileo which really didn't blow me away.The best way if you are interested is to try to find an Ansuz dealer and get some on loan to try out in your system, this way you will know if they can suit your taste.I'm seriously considering D2 full loom for my rig, IMO it's the sweet spot in Ansuz line of cables.
If you have unlimited budget go for DTC or DTC Supreme which is supposed to be far better than Odin 2.Again this is all personal opinion.
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In the current TAS, there's a full page devoted to setting up the Wilson Chronosonic XVX in Robert Harley's dedicated listening room. Quite a process! |
The bigger the Wilson, the more difficult it is to place in a room. I was shooting for the alexx but things weren't meant to be so Alexia 2 felt the logical choice.
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I really don’t like the midrange Wilson uses. Old tech. paper that breaks up. These will never have the resolving power of better designs.
They do bass and dynamics? Sure . Overblowned bass, maybe so according to a lot of audiophiles. With heavy bass biased amplifiers like the Mephisto, sure. WC’s cup of tea, sure. But TO ME, this is far from being audiophile land. It is seriously starting to tend alike those car db contests... |
Keep in mind, you are talking about a speaker you haven’t personally owned or lived with. This is why I am very clear when I give an opinion about any component (wether I’ve owned it or not).
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I don’t know about the technical aspect of the driver, old tech or not but I’ve never noticed any issues on my Alexia 2s. In fact the speaker is never noticed at All just the Music. The present of the music is amazing. I can’t tell where one driver starts and the other stops. Very coherent and seamless. What ever they are doing it sure works for me. |
techno,
I am waiting to hear about speedbump6's personal experience with his Wilson speakers vs his soon to arrive Tekton Design Ulf and Moab models. The brilliant Tekton designer has taken commonly available tweeter drivers in an array able to cover the midrange down to 300 Hz. The Tekton owners are delighted with how the whole freq range has such greater than expected resolution rivaling electrostatics. On p43 of the Tekton Design Moab thread, there is a link to a Facebook group which lists owners by state, so you can hear them. Eliminating dealers keeps the price low. The Moab at $4500 looks to be great value. Upgrading to all Be tweeters which cover 300 Hz to HF, at $14K, still a great value. Go challenge any dynamic speaker at any price to beat those sonics, so say the Tekton owners.
Grey9hound should chime in here, since I have not heard Tektons.
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Agreed with you viber. These are the 2020 years..., the old audiophile rule of the more expensive the better is just no more a reality. Some audiophiles still live in the past and think the bigger the « motor block » ( horsepower) , the faster and better the car is BUT NOW WE HAVE ELECTRIC CARS.........
This thread is just an old illusion for deep pockets...They subjectively and obsessively dream about the msrp more than they dream about the overall price to technology ratio and the truthful performance you get in the end... |
Merrill Audio Element 118s with ARC REF6SE (67 HRS OF PLAYTIME) and Alexia 2 (approx 100 hrs of playtime) video is now uploaded.
I am highly impressed by the element 118s and Wilson synergy and this is NOT EVEN broken in.
Ps: i gave the mephisto the rest of the month off. |
@techno..
Any chance you can hang out with the crew that owns electric cars? i personally prefer gold ol’ american muscle. YES i get off on thinking what it must feel like to drive a 1700 HP twin turbo V10 Dodge Viper ACR. I rather live ONE DAY AS A LION than 1,000 days as a sheep. Just my .02 cts.
Let us big boys enjoy getting 8 mpg, 227 mph top speeds, 7 sec 1/4 mile runs. We can handle it. |
