2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
20,890 responses 
4425
861 posts
 
Dear Lord this banter about one component “beating” another is very tiring. At the level WC is playing the discussion should be about preferences rather than absolutes. Saying that one expensive component “beats” another really sounds foolish to me. It’s not a  boxing match after all. 
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Uh, picking a winner is kinda the whole point of head to head shootouts, no?
Every time WC gets a new component he hypes the coming shootout and that’s what people want. At least I think.

watch interest in this thread and WC’s vids go way down if he goes all vanilla and doesn’t declare winners and losers. Just says they’re all great and it’s synergy blah blah.
That’s the one thing (direct compares and honest winners/losers) that sets what he’s doing apart from the collective aggregate of what everyone else doing.
So respectfully disagree.

That said, yeah I’ll try to back off on the confrontationalness. Waste of my time anyway

speedbump6
760 posts
 
Beat, winner, favorite, whichever terminology used dosnt matter, it’s all used to describe the same thing. Even consumer reports has winners and losers, but on criteria they selected. At least here we each get to select and discuss the criteria. And it can be different for each of us.  No sense in this forum or the videos otherwise. We are all trying to pick the “winner” to spend our money on based on many different criteria, price, value, color even. Without the discussions happening, we’d all have a lot less info to help us decide these things. I may Or may not buy any of why I see discussed, but the discussion itself might help me decide on what criteria is important to me in a buying decision. 
4425
861 posts
 
well here’s my thought fwiw(not much). if WC says x beats y that is his subjective opinion which may not match another individual’s preferences. i guess it would be accurate to say that unit x ‘won’ in his system at that moment. however with the rapid interchanging of multiple variables i’d be very careful making buying decisions based on declared winners and losers. what wins in one system may lose in the next. he’s listening to very fine components all(most) of which will be winners in someone’s system. 
viber6
2,445 posts
 
Thanks to everyone for toning down the hate speech.  When I say "better" I mean "having more clarity" but sometimes we all want to be less wordy.  Or, I have said, "if you value clarity, then X is better than Y" or simply, "X has more clarity than Y."  We all enjoy WC's "tell all" descriptions and statement of his values,  rather than the wishy washy politically correct writings in magazines, etc.  It is good to know WC's stand on things, and what he values.  At the same time, WC frequently says, "what do you think, why, and it's OK to have different preferences than my own."  

WC says what he prefers, money almost no object, but he offers advice on best for a cheaper price.  So I know some people follow him for HIS advice and not MINE, but other people follow him to get advice on best for a modest price.  Therefore, I offer my suggestions for people to try very cheap stuff that I am enthused about and have owned.  So it is not necessary to start my own thread about Mytek, Benchmark, for there is very little to say, except that they are nearly unbeatable for clarity at any price.  There is 95+ % probability of truth to that statement, since I have not heard ALL electronics out there.  But I have heard enough over  many decades to say this.  

The best electronics are very close in sound, and they are all low in distortion.  Relatively small differences exist among cables, as well.  But all speakers are primitive and have much greater variations in sound and distortion than any electronics.  That's why I go for economy for electronics, but expensive speakers are more likely to contribute much better overall system sound than expensive electronics and cables.  In fact, at Steve's house with his GTA speaker of years ago, the Pass amp he was using seemed to have neutral sound, but actually the total system sounded that way, since I know that Pass is on the sweet side.  
mrdecibel
3,062 posts
 
Interesting, that we are dealing with recordings, which, go through a mic, or a mixing console, of some sorts, so that sense of real tone, which seems to be what everyone here is commenting about, is recording dependent. If we would listen to PRAT, dynamics, fortissimo, and pianissimo, which are the " givens " in music, maybe, things will change. A recorded violin ( and I am using this instrument for viber6 ), loses some of it’s proper tone ( viber has told me, he only owns a handful of well recorded, true to the tone, of a violin, recordings ), once it hits the mic. If the tone of a violin, sounds bright, wouldn’t some one, want a smoother, rounder, softer ( tube like ) piece of equipment, to accommodate this particular piece of music. This is why, I will never ( and I suppose I could ), spend, outrageous amounts of money on gear, again. And, as I stated at my beginning of THIS post, and other posts, I listen to those musical attributes, although still recorded, are existent, in live, unamplified music, and I want to hear my performers, play for me. My expectations of tone, and soundstaging, are actually, a bit, make believe, because, it has gone through the " recording " process. I would not trade, even up, what I have, for the Wilson speakers, because I am happy, with what really matters to me, most. I would trade up, however, to a pair of Volti Vittora, with the Bass Module. Enough of my rant....Enjoy !, and be well.
techno__dude
511 posts
 
Don’t want to spoil the preamp debate, but in the end it turns out you just don’t really need one when your dac is well engineered and up to the task. 😛😉
viber6
2,445 posts
 
Techno_dude,

Right.  For the most purity, I feel that the best shootout would be DCS + Gryphon vs DCS + Dag amp, no preamp at all.  It will still be interesting to compare the whole Dag combo + DCS to just Dag amp + DCS, since WC is tempted to sell off all the preamps, and put the money into other speakers and sources.  I was impressed by the Dag combo, but I feel eliminating even the superb Dag preamp will be even better for clarity.  On another video, the Lux amp without the Lux preamp was way better for clarity than the Lux combo.
speedbump6
760 posts
 
The next level will come. No amps, no preamps, just a source directly wired to your brain. 
tjassoc
258 posts
 
Will that directly wired to your brain be included in our upcoming Jack Ass movie?
tjassoc
258 posts
 
I have an audiophile friend that I'd like to volunteer for that role
techno__dude
511 posts
 
My wife keeps telling me there’s a dinosaur in the living room. Me thinks it’s the preamp, but I’m not sure anymore  as I’m always in the room when she says that. 🤔
bill_k
910 posts
 
There are some DACs like the Chord DAVE which can drive a properly matched speaker directly, so with such a setup you can eliminate both the preamp and power amp. Of course you're quite limited in your speaker choice for such applications.
viber6
2,445 posts
 
speedbump6,

Yes, I have thought about direct wiring to the brain.  The conductor on stage who has the best pickup of the live event could have electrodes attached to his brain to make a recording, then playback could transmit the skull recordings to his internal brain.  But this recording if applied to another person's skull probably would generate different brain waves and may not produce high fidelity to the sound.  A better but more invasive approach would use implanted electrodes into the auditory part of the brain.  Play back the recording using the already implanted electrodes to accurately recreate the music perceptions in the brain.

This applies to nonmusical experiences as well.  Make a recording of your love making sensations at age 16, play it back 50 years later to truly experience what you did at the young age.  Even WC in his 30's would probably lament that things are not quite as exciting as they were 20 years ago.

Someday this will be possible, if enough people really care about sound.  At present, deep brain stimulation is an accepted treatment to improve symptoms for Parkinson's disease.
viber6
2,445 posts
 
techno_dude, hilarious!!!
viber6
2,445 posts
 
bill_k,

This reminds me of the Kii powered speaker which uses internal modules from Bruno Putzeys of Mola Mola to power each driver, with DSP integration.  All you need is a source.  For $15K, the Kii speaker was very good, but a midsized YG speaker was better.  I heard all this at Bill Parish's house in NJ, GTT Audio.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Well, 
i wanted to update others here before i do it on my channel. i have found the Vivaldi a new home and i am excited to see what happens next!
Will it be DCS Rossini VS MSB Premier? or how about EMM Labs? 
You never know in which direction i will be going, but that is all part of the fun! 
Tonight's video will be the last video with the Vivaldi and so i will use the video that follows tonights video to give updates and answer a few questions or uncertainties that i saw recently about the Luxman preamp. 
yyzsantabarbara
4,736 posts
 
@whitecamaross Take a look at the Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC if you ever have a chance. All of the DACs you have had in house are it's competitors, $13K MSRP.
4425
861 posts
 
Nagra HD? 
bac2vinyl
78 posts
 
its your sole opinion so non of this matters
speedbump6
760 posts
 
viber, igreatly depends on the quality of the brain matter, lol. As we age I’m sure that tends to degrade. Jay, I’m so sad. I was hoping the Vivaldi’s new home was going to be my home. I just now brightened up. A few days ago was trying to make an offer on a Paradigm sub 2. He was asking much more than the history showed and didn’t even respond to my second offer, and tried asking what it would take, after which he removed the listing and said he would contact me when he decided to put it back up again, after some research I saw he offered the exact same one two years ago and pulled it back then also. Then I saw a fellow listed two of them and we worked out a deal where I got both for not much more than what the first one had been asking. I love getting new toys. I’m sure that’s part of the draw to trying all these amps, preamps, etc, it’s the adrenaline rush of something new to play with. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
https://youtu.be/gwshgGwb4kE
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
I liked Gryphon better on most recent vid. Were volume levels equalized?  Gryphon sounded little louder but maybe my imagination. Maybe it was just that much more dynamic, as you mentioned. 
viber6
2,445 posts
 
Both sound wonderful, maybe in part from the superior Nordost interconnects.  Perhaps the Gryphon's detail and airiness I heard are helped by the Dragon power cord, so that is an unknown variable in this shootout.  If you feel that the Momentum combo is a smooth sound, then it is likely that each--the Dag preamp and amp--are smooth, since the designs are likely to be similar.  Or, the Transparent power cord with its filter may be smoothing out the Dag.  I hope you can do another video before the DCS leaves, using DCS straight into Dag amp vs DCS straight into Gryphon amp.  Until the Odin 1 speaker cable arrives, you can quickly do this with the WW speaker cable, and of course use the same power cord for both amps to eliminate that variable.  I love the clarity of the DCS, so I believe the clarity will be at the highest level with DCS + Gryphon with one Nordost interconnect (either Odin or Valhalla) with Odin 1 speaker cable, and Dragon power cord.  Who knows, the Dag amp may be neck and neck with the Gryphon with the best speaker cable, Odin 1, and both using the best power cord, Dragon.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Regarding Vivaldi direct into Gryphon, if you go back and watch the vid where WC introduces the ARC Ref6 SE, WC states that dac direct to Gryphon was giving too much info ( too much of a good thing he says and it wasn’t ideal) and then he says sound improved from that by adding the ARC preamp to the mix. Basically toned it down in a pleasing way for him. 
techno__dude
511 posts
 
Well, if you ask me the Gryphon kicked the Momentum’s butt.

That Gryphon is a killer amp.
jerryhb
4 posts
 
Maybe a little outdated today, but I always enjoyed the performance of my VSP labs 150 Amplifier.  The problem is, I can't find anyone who can repair it.  It's just collecting dust in storage in my basement.  Anyone know someone who might be able to repair it?  
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
I agree on the whuppin just didn’t want to be too hard on the Dag. WC might need to bring in a lightweight so the Dag can finally win a round : ). 
Maybe put it against the Levinson multichannel HT amp at bottom of rack?  : )

jk. I know I know. They’re all really good 
speedbump6
760 posts
 
And to me, I heard the opposite. The dag seemed to have more detail and bite, and the gryphon was smoothing things out more, most apparent in the bass regen. It’s bass seemed much less defined, with thr dag I could hear different levels of bass and mid bass, well defined individual notes that were more like one sound with the gryphon. The gryphon had something going on in the mids that I can’t quite define which sounded good, though as most levels I still felt the dag had more detail. It also felt more open and as much as one can tell from YouTube recorded on a phone, more of a stage. 
4425
861 posts
 
Well I have the new Dag Progression integrated amp which I find extraordinary smooth while retaining great detail. With certainty I can say that it presents vocals superior to anything Ive ever owned which is a pretty solid group. Anything “kicking it’s butt” is most likely brighter which is all one might discern from a video. Brighter will always be the choice in the short term. IMO
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
It’s really cool that different people hear completely different things in these shootouts. Not surprising either. That’s what makes it fun. 
Obviously I was joking in last post before anyone gets bent out of shape. 
If there is one brand that seems to have won WC over, at least based on length of ownership and steady use, it seems to be Wilson. For better part of last year between Alexia and DAW he’s been a Wilson man. Almost every video have had Wilson front and center. Sure he’s owned other stuff a long time like those Dynaudio but he never used them in video until ready to move them.  Over whole journey don’t remember another brand lasting that long, though before the videos it was harder to track. Maybe Martin Logan was close but haven’t heard anything about them for what seems like years. 
I think it’s great. I’m hoping he gets Alexx next. 
jg2077
159 posts
 
@jerryhb - look up audiogon member "bigkidz", he provides repairs/restoration.   I use Pyramid Audio,  located in Austin, TX.  They fo excellent work.

Jose.
mrdecibel
3,062 posts
 
I preferred the Dag, based on this particular comparison....but things like cables, were not the same, which makes it an improper comparison, ime.........btw, I had a VSP Labs Gold Edition amp, pass through my listening room, back in the day. It would need a COMPLETE overhaul today ( input boards, output caps, possibly the output mosfets, IEC inlet, etc.), with newer parts throughout ), to be competitive with what is available today. An expensive proposition, imo. Worth it ? I would not think so, on a resale basis. SQ ?......was a good amp back then, but maybe, you would think so. Enjoy !, and be well.
viber6
2,445 posts
 
4425,
I recall you being happy with the Luxman M900u, maybe also the C900u, finding them detailed.  How does the Dag Progression integrated compare in sound?  Probably very similar?  WC found the Dag Momentum combo more detailed than the Progression, which all makes sense.
speedbump6
760 posts
 
I just added another one to my stable today, picked up a pair of bw 800d3s. They had the Saha daw there too, so got to hear them side side
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
What were your impressions of the 800d3 vs daw? Which electronics for demo? What are some speakers you’ve liked previously (to get sense of house sound you favor)?  Thx in advance 
speedbump6
760 posts
 
They were using mac tube preamp and mac ss amps. Didn’t pay attention to the specific models. We spent more time talking than listening, so didn’t get time to tell a lot of details. The Sasha was more dynamic, bigger soundstage. Was suprised the bass wasnt as well defined as the BWs. I wish I had spent more time listening, but first time I have been to this dealer so we talked a lot about what I already had, then about some of the equipment they carried. I had a number of questions myself about some of the products, and only had a few hours left after I closed my store at 2. The short time I did get to spend I’d say I preferred the sound in this case, of the bws. 
speedbump6
760 posts
 
They were using mac tube preamp and mac ss amps. Didn’t pay attention to the specific models. We spent more time talking than listening, so didn’t get time to tell a lot of details. The Sasha was more dynamic, bigger soundstage. Was suprised the bass wasnt as well defined as the BWs. I wish I had spent more time listening, but first time I have been to this dealer so we talked a lot about what I already had, then about some of the equipment they carried. I had a number of questions myself about some of the products, and only had a few hours left after I closed my store at 2. The short time I did get to spend I’d say I preferred the sound in this case, of the bws. I’m getting back into audio again after a number of years absence. My old systems were my favorite, the Vandersteen 3A mains, Vandy subs a new surrounds and theta digital Casblanca and dreadnaught. I also had a higher end Martin Logan, forget the models, with their descent sub. I found that one to be a bit dry, but very good for clarity. Also had the Anthony Gallo 3.0, which was ok, but nothing special to me. The Vandys were really something special, and I had listened to the bw, von schweikert, Linn, krell, and many more back then, I believe around 2004-2007 time frames. I still havnt had the ability to hear my tekton ulfers either. Have lots of toys but won’t get to play with them for a while yet
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Interesting, thanks speedbump. Vandy 3a and BW 800d3 are really different sounding speakers.

many like the Mc and BW synergy  
techno__dude
511 posts
 
The Gryphon amp is king. 
4425
861 posts
 
Viper 6 the comparison in my system was definitive. The Lux combo was, as stated before, outstanding by any standard.
The Dag is considerably fuller sounding and a little less ‘shiny’ up top. The best analogy is that the Dag in my system is what many would consider very tubelike. The Luxman is more dead neutral to me and might suit more speakers. 
In terms of pure high end musicality they are both on the same plane making the Dag a ‘value’.
 I didn’t sell the Lux combo in order to buy the Dag. It was a personal situation but the overall form and function of the Dag leaves me quite pleased. BTW I use Wilson Yvette’s. 
viber6
2,445 posts
 
4425,
Thanks, very informative.  I guess the compactness of the Dag Progression Integrated is the major factor in your decision to get it.  Despite my tube-like and whipped cream comments, they are only relative to comparisons to other equipment.  I did have the Luxman 600A Class A amp for a month on loan and can say it was quite neutral and nice.  

The midrange is the most important of any component because it is where most of the melodic content lies.  Since you like voices, which are mostly midrange, it makes sense that you value the midrange quality of the Dag.  But to fully appreciate the total sound of the voice and other instruments it is necessary to have full HF extension and detail to capture the overtones of the midrange.  In real life, the voice and other instruments may sound a little raw and unpleasant if they are too loud, or you sit very close in an unamplified  setting.  Things like Dag sweeten these sounds, but the Luxman is more true to life.
4425
861 posts
 
Best analogy i can offer is based on what I’m hearing the Dag would be extremely compatible with Magico and the Luxman combo with Wilson. However the Dag’s midrange is awesome and you’ll find that the overall detail can be stunning. It’s all there but the HF region is not as pronounced as on the Luxman. On the other side of the equation the Luxman sounds somewhat leaner than the Dag. Both are really really good but the $12000 disparity in price is not evident. IMHO
viber6
2,445 posts
 
4425,
Interesting that you consider the Wilson perhaps less detailed, and warmer than the Magico, which is why you would pair the Dag with Magico and Luxman with Wilson.  That correlates with why WC is leaning toward accuracy in amps and cables with the Wilson.  With the Magico, he wanted to warm it up.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
WC,
Do you ever consider adding one or more top REL subs (G1 Mark or No. 25) to your music system to supplement the DAWs at the low end?

Or is that something you think completely unnecessary and wouldn’t consider?

My dealer displays Alexx and says even they can benefit (marginally, but definitely benefit) from the best Rels.

I know you have a couple of the budget ones for your HT setup, but I don’t remember you ever blending serious subs with your music speakers.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Kren 
I don't really feel the need to have more bass. I feel like the Sashas have sufficient bass as long as the partnering gear is good. I also sit close to a rear wall which help enhance the oomph factor. 
I heard the alexx and the bass was ridiculously deep. 
mrdecibel
3,062 posts
 
WC, by sitting near the rear wall, you are, and seems happily, adding room coloration to your system. I have " never " enjoyed having my listening seat close to the rear wall, and in fact, it helps in eliminating " the room ", as part of the sound system. I find it interesting, actually, with the money you have spent, on the gear, and the room, you enjoy the rear wall " enhancement ". Not my thinking, but you know what you like, I think. Always, Enjoy !, and be well. MrD. 
speedbump6
760 posts
 
I like bass, as long as it’s very good bass. I think I’ve decided to use the ReL 25s I got with the Sashas in my setup
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Sounds good. To each their own !
I present what I have going on and what I find works or doesn't work. Let's also not forget that a lot of people here come to form an opinion on systems that they only have seen on pictures. For instance, how many have actually heard a Martin Logan neolith with PROPER AMPLIFIERS? How many have heard gryphon with Wilson audio ?

The truth is that as you move up the ladder you also continue to learn and what worked for you in your earlier "cheaper" system might no longer work with a more expensive system. 
If you for example are running a 20k system, it is difficult to come in and "advice " someone who is running a 1/4 of a million dollar system UNLESS you have previously owned a system that expensive and you now have downsized or you have made a living setting up systems of big price points. 
I remember owning systems that were far less money (as you saw on one of my videos) and today I realize how far behind I truly was. How little I knew when it came to cables, power conditioning, etc etc. 
I always go back to the car analogy: it is very hard to tell a Ferrari owner how to drive a Ferrari when you have been driving a Honda Civic type R... Granted, I've owned both types of systems in the past so this is why I feel somewhat qualified to express myself as I am. Hope this makes sense. 
mrdecibel
3,062 posts
 
WC.....all well and good....but, getting our ears, away from the room boundaries, as we do with speakers, has been a philosophy I have followed, for the 50 plus years, in the industry, as a consultant, and as a listener. Look at the thread " I can prove your room is bad ", by eric_squires, under the speaker threads. You are in the minority on this subject.....People usually do not have the luxury of sitting away from a rear wall, based on the room size / decor, etc.. You, I believe, have this luxury. This is no different, than going to Carnegie Hall ( just as an example ) and looking for that sweet spot, that perfect seat. No one will " want " to be in the back row. I guarantee it. again, ymmv.....Please, no offense, but...you are still learning, and, cannot take criticism, or accept opinions, that might actually be, correct. I will leave you alone know.
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