My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
@whitercamaross Just a suggestion In order to appease those who want better recordings , Can you pick out a good 40s-70s jazz recording. You have many on your drive that are Double DSD rate . They have a file extension of .dsf. In JRiver Media Center I can actually sort by all files that have the .dsf extension. Once I had the sorted ,I made a Playlist named DSD ..so all DSD files will play under that list . JRiver had already tagged and retrieved, Artist, song title amd "Album Image" for 90% of them. I would think that you could do something like that with your Vivaldi .......... But maybe not You can always down sample to 192khz. Look to See if You have Miles Davis "Jack Johnson" album.. one cool and great sounding album IMO OR another really cool, dynamic and Great sounding one is ...:Herbie Hancock "Death Wish" from the movie with Charles Bronson 1974. The soundtrack is outstanding.. IMO. Those two are my favorites lately ... that i Have on Vinyl. I usually play them kind of Loud. They are Excellent. I’ll bet you can find some cool ones there , Good Luck
Jay, Oh FGS play something for viber. Let him pick a 2 minute piece of his choice....it would make his year. Your Christmas present to him....it's that time of the year.
I think we can agree that a wide variety of music is useful to present for demo. There are plenty of natural recordings for most genres/types of music. But if a large portion of listening is to processed recordings, what is the point of a high quality system where junk recordings are revealed as junk? I don't bother to listen to cable and amp shootouts with junk recordings. Junk A is better than junk B? Not much sense.
My classical recordings vary in naturalness and quality, but they are much less processed than pop, rock, etc. Nils' Acoustic Live album just barely meets my standards for quality recorded sound. Even on my lower quality recordings around 1950, a great system improves their enjoyment, whereas junk processed recordings sound worse on a better system. My historical recordings of 1930 have no HF, so I enjoy them as music only, ignoring the sound quality. I try to find them on youtube and listen on the computer rather than listen through my system.
I heard the Boulder 2110 personally at Jay’s place with Gryphon Mephisto amp. At home I use a modest set up to listen to videos Focal Clear headset Pass Labs HPA-1 headset amplifier Highend computer with dedicated sound card.
@himiguel Miguel, I am curious as to what you are listening with or through.What are you using when you listen to Jay’s recorded audio on YouTube of Boulder?
@whitecamaross reg footers for wilson alexx i think stillpoints 5 or 7 is a far better choice than iso acoustics gaia. and michael fremer uses stillpoints 7 as his permenant solution under alexx for last few years. i have personally used gaia.they are decent but they kind of form a suction cup and sometimes disintegrate when you try to move them. but hats off to isoacoustics when that happened to me, they sent a replacement next day.
I'll play everything through them. I am not sticking to one single song. I don't sit here cherry picking songs to only find those that are unprocessed etc. Why? Because as kren said about me using stock Powercords, that's not what the average Joe will do with the Mephisto and i also believe the owner of this kind of gear will not just be playing unprocessed music. I play everything including 80s, 70s etc. If i have to cherry pick my music to only choose unprocessed music then this won't be fun anymore.
The last 2 videos of the Boulder 2150 amp are using bad processed recordings. I can't judge anything. I liked the first recordings of the Alexx using more natural recordings like "Man in the moon." The first cut of Nils Lofgren's Acoustic Live CD, "You" has nice voice and continuous guitar which is good for demo. The Freya Rawlings recording has a relatively natural voice. The Alexx has nice clarity and coherence on these recordings.
FWIW, you found the Pandora to be more revealing than the Boulder preamp, which blunted edges. I would expect the Boulder amp to have similar character as the preamp. Judging from comments that the Mephisto sounds akin to a class D amp, this suggests to me that the whole Boulder system is relatively euphonic compared to the Pandora/Mephisto. Still, I would like to hear the complete Gryphon and Boulder systems presented with the same higher quality recordings. I hope you do this next week with your shootout. Thanks.
@himiguel Are you associated with the Tripoint products ? I do not see you disclosing it anywhere, but you have a lot of their pricier equipment, and i am curious if there is a connection.
As long as it is not the Gryphon combo playing , I ‘m in youtube heaven listening to the Boulders. Mephisto has been detroned, and will go in history as the the most expensive « class D sounding » dual mono class A amplifier...
As long as you have this thread, the YouTube channel and the gear you've been acquiring you will have critics. Seems like some people (even though they participate in your thread and watch your channel) are never happy with your decisions....As far as your statement above...
"When it comes to ac management, ground conditioning, after market circuit breakers, replacing the light pole outside my house, calling florida power and light to come out to replace the transformer outside my house since it’s probably 10 years old, etc etc, i am the wrong guy for that. You are looking at the wrong person. That is a bit above my own OCD."
I find that rather funny. I remember a few years ago I begged you to try Nordost cables...Hell, I begged you to try an aftermarket power cord. You were so stubborn!
Now you've gone through dozens of aftermarket power cords, IC's, SC's etc... You have a dedicated listening room, room treatments, isolation platforms, footers, AC conditioners, cable risers....Don't sell yourself short. I think you are plenty OCD.
My comments here where not to be negative or bashing. The perfectionist in me is always restless. Yes, Jay I agree with you. You have a better system that any storefront in Florida and any of the Axpona systems I’ve heard in the last 2 years. I would just like for you to push the envelope more. I understand your position, you’re not a tweak guy. At this level of electronics you own, please reconsider your approach.
Other ways of pushing the envelope MSB Select reference dac, Wadax Reference dac, Wilson Chronosonic. Than what? Yes back to tweaking and system optimizing. Not to forget more time dedicated to speaker positioning and spiking.
Lets go all the way!!! The sky is the limit for you. Up to you. Congrats on the Boulder.
One more thing get rid of your current movie screen and replace it with a motorized retractable screen, this will help with image diffusion. Also more depth in the soundstage.
@dasign It could be a possibility. Thank you for the link.
When it comes to ac management, ground conditioning, after market circuit breakers, replacing the light pole outside my house, calling florida power and light to come out to replace the transformer outside my house since it’s probably 10 years old, etc etc, i am the wrong guy for that. You are looking at the wrong person. That is a bit above my own OCD. I am in agreement there are systems that kick my system’s ass from here to Hong Kong and back but let’s keep it real: how many systems are we talking about out of the bunch? 5%? 15%? Also, sound is very subjective and when you get to the level where I am, you ACTUALLY feel that this is above what you have owned or in some cases what you have heard at shows. I heard the Alexx 2-3 times before and i left feeling unimpressed and disappointed. This pretty much proved to me that shows aren’t really for you to be impressed in any way shape or form. This doesn’t meant it is not possible to be impressed but nothing beats YOU doing it at home with your own electronics.
I personally feel i have the best sounding Alexx anywhere here in South Florida. Yes, from Tampa all the way down to key west and 90 miles south to Cuba.
Bleached vocals - i mean if what im hearing is bleached, I’m loving the sound and i might be trying to find a way for my room to smell like bleach too because I love the bleached sound I’m getting.
I am also in a tough spot here because I don’t have a single person near me that has a rig at the level of mine where I can go and listen and take notes and probably be schooled too. I don’t live in TX, California, NY where there are a ton of serious Audiophiles. No disrespect to my fellow Floridians but even local dealers and manufacturers have average systems in their own homes (some, not all) You would think that an audio store owner or even the store manager would have a good rig? You would think that an audio manufacturer would have a reference system at home to test their products on? Nah... Not here in my neck of the woods. Average systems is what you’ll find in their homes. Think "Jay’s system" 8 years ago. Even at my local audio stores, i have heard nothing that impressed me. NOTHING AT ALL. I heard the WAMM, Chronosonic XVX and left ten min later. Why? System matching was poor (mainly tubes) as well as the sources and cables, But I won’t blame the speakers either because I went through this with the ALEXX. I’ve learned way too much on my own (still have more to learn). The next time I go to a show, I’ll have better ears and a much better reference point in order to gauge things better than when I went to AXPONA 2019.
I get it, i am being more vocal and public and have more exposure than before so I know this comes with the territory. The critics are a real thing and i when i don't listen to them or when i refuse to put their product on my floor, they get a little salty with me -although not all of them. I've said it several times before, i get blocked from buying certain gear from some manufacturers (something you might know or not know about). Why does that happen? BECAUSE I AM SHARING MY THOUGHTS WITH YOU ALL!!! if i didn't post any of this or had a growing YouTube channel then I wouldn't have manufacturers trying to block me from buying anything. So yes, me sharing with you causes difficulties for me so MAYBE, just MAY BE, some of you might take that into account the next time you want to be abrasive with me.
I tried spikes on my Apogee Duetta Signature, then moved to Steve Blinn design footers, which were an improvement over the spikes. About 2 weeks ago, I purchased the IsoAcoustics Gaia footers out of curiosity. I was blown away...better bass, increase in resolution, better soundstage, etc. Pretty sure that you will love them.
Small incremental differences at this point as I believe we will see with jays stated next ideas. The idea that the midrange is lacking in any real way on the video i believe is just not the case. Yes, he can try fuses, different footers, room treatments, endless cable combinations, etc etc etc. I’m sure the Wilson chronosonic would sound even better than the Alex . But with the current setup I hear nothing missing in the midrange and it’s the best it’s been vs any previous iteration. My personal preferences were for the Alexia in the bass department, but I can hear what it is that these speaker do with it, and get why some would prefer that. It’s not lacking, it’s just my preference. Sounds like we will have a lot going on over the next week, it’s an ambitious schedule he’s set up.
Speedbump6, I respectfully disagree. As per your comment regarding it doesn’t get any better, yes it does. I’ve experienced many systems worldwide personally from the Netherlands to Hong Kong that walk circles around this system. I’m sure the Boulder can be tamed through room acoustics, better ac management, better mechanical isolation implementation, ground conditioning. There is no end to pushing the envelope of performance.
Glad to see (and hear) you switched the port, making the low end couple much better with the room (at the mic location, anyway). Surprised no one mentioned how poorly the coupling was in the earlier videos. Perhaps not many are listening on their full range rigs. At times, some of your room resonances have been quite pronounced on the videos. Would be interesting to see what people are listening through when watching your videos. Perhaps we can give a quick mention what we are listening through each time someone responds to your thread if they are giving a detailed listening description. Just a quick one word detail like......Headphones, Phone, Ipad, Bookshelf, Fullrange----no brands or other humble brag info needed (unless you ask). Would have mentioned the port situation earlier but I am not as prolific a poster as some. Takes me awhile....I am a "hunt and peck" typist. Thought someone would have mentioned it a lot earlier. BTW, video #1 came through the clearest on my system. The Boulder preamp is amazing....and now it seems the Boulder amps are as well. I usually go back and forth between your vids and the Tidal MQA version (if available) to see how they compare. To Jay and all, have a fabulous holiday season!
So to give you a little more context, the boulders were using Wireworld Platinum 8 speaker cables, Synergistic Research Atmosphere level xlr from dac to preamp and gryphon xlr interconnects. yes, all are cables from different brands. Boulder gear was on stock powercords. The goal was to start with the least amount of cable synergy possible, but based on the reaction i have been receiving on youtube it appears the experiment was successful -meaning people liked the presentation... hmm, i wonder what will happen when i do a full loom of cables ?
Coming up next:
Center Stage 1.5 version 2 footers (to use under Boulder 1.5 monos and Mephisto)
Introduce Synergistic Research speaker cables and grounding block (to see how it will sound vs Wireworld Platinum 8)
Spikes under Alexx
Alexx will be dialed in by the dealer (Peter Mcgrath will be helping via Facetime)
A couple of thoughts in my head: (thoughts at this time)
Aftermarket Footers for Wilson Audio Alexx
Upgraded powercords for Boulder Monos (expensive tweak)
Using Audioquest Dragon Source PC on Boulder Linestage
I will say the Boulders are definitely Fast and Articulate, Not Bloated and Not Warm .Not overly Full or overly Bass ripe. Are they cold and sterile , I don’t think so...Probably very Neutral. Now if you added just a Decent Turntable to play records through this System, I think it would be Damn Hard to Beat. I have a Victor QL-A7 Turn Table that I bought about six months ago. It sat around for about 2 months before I had the courage to even try it. The Cartridge is JVC Z-1S or Victor Nivico MD-1025. I bought a Jico SAS with boron Cantilever Stylus for it (195.00 and worth it )) and wow it is amazing. I have unreal clarity Slam and Dynamics with deep detailed Bass definition. I have never heard any better personally. Of course ,I have not heard many,(Turntable/Analog).. maybe 10 It really IS so much better than digital. I have honestly never heard analog like this. Of course I have only ever owned a Technic’s in the 80s and never really setup a cartridge . it was aligned and installed by the place in Dallas TX that bought it from. I think I had it a couple of years when CDs became the Rage. sold all of my records in the 90s ... BIG Mistake ! I never learned to setup a cartridge , but i know when you get them right , It is Heaven. Interestingly enough, I use the analog out of TT to a Pair of Von Gaylord Chinchilla Interconnects to the McIntosh MX151. BTW the Mx151 has a VERY Good Phono input. It is outstanding. well it should be the retail on the MX151 was $12.400.00. Sorry to rant , I just had to tell about the Excellent Analog Setup
Himiguel, I can hear how good it sounds just through my iPad, don’t even need my headphones for that. If you need I’d be happy to lend you my headphones, or ears, because it dosnt get much better than this. The midrange is fantastic, and certainly lacks nothing in soul or anything else. Tecno, a thumbs down? Really? Why?
I don’t need to hear the Gryphon combo anymore. I can die happy now. Someone has to be deaf to ignore that superiority ( Boulder). That last video was the best sound ever period.
Now if you can figure out how to tame that grayish harmonically bleached Boulder overtone in the critical midrange. This must be removed from the signal path to restore the soul of the music.
I have just posted a poll on my youtube channel. Please vote now to see what the general feeling is regarding the Gryphon Mephisto vs Boulder 2150 upcoming battle !
kren, You said, "Sorry Viber I just can’t relate to that logic; never had to settle." If that means you never had to settle regarding women, you lucky dog.
But for audio, we all have to settle for different sonic tradeoffs. That's OK, but the gorgeous looking Dag electronics would turn me off after 2 seconds of listening, when guitar sparkles are blunted. At present, I like the sparkles from the Alexx.
Yes you're right. I just want for us to have cool discussions because what i have coming will ruffle some feathers and i don't want us to start arguing. I want grown up discussions and keep an open mind. I hate to give one small advice but i would like for all of you to keep an open mind to all sorts of gear and let your ears decide. Maybe if you applied a little of what I say all the time: " I'm not married to any of this stuff" would make it a little easier to keep an open mind.
Guys, Let's just be happy as hell we will hear cool stuff during our Christmas break. Let's be nice to each other at least through the holidays. We always have 2021 to tear each other apart. Don't worry, the surprise has actually arrived and i hope I can display it this weekend. We have the boulder to listen to as well as another component. I also want to try the synergistic research powercell SX to see if it is better than my audioquest Niagra 5000? I will spend 3 days straight packing, shooting videos and slowly releasing them to you all. Let's be cool and get along? I am working my ass off here to get you something to be looking forward to🙂
Sorry Viber I just can’t relate to that logic; never had to settle ; )
Nah, if it’s Tekton it’ll be fine - I won’t complain about it. It’s all fun to hear if that’s what it is, even if there are better options for the price (can’t say, I’ve never heard Tekton - just speculating)
I have an idea. Viber records his system, and tecno records his. Then send them to Jay and have him post them on his channel. Maybe we can do some videos of the groups systems and do some comparing of what we think? Just get with Jay about music selection in case something isn’t allowed to be played on YouTube.
kren0006, If you like the Tekton sound, you would come to like the looks. It's like an OK looking lady who is funny and nice, and then seems more attractive.
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