It is very hard to audition/test bass...it is so room dependent (as natural instruments with ultra LF have bass notes with long duration and therefore fully excite room modes)...is it a room mode or the speaker?
Good transients are probabaly the only thing you can use to test speaker bass response in an unfamiliar listening environment like a store demo. Something with your favorite kick drum (and make sure to avoid something that has been harmonically sweetened to give it punch like most rock music such as AC/DC Back in Black). For some uncompressed drums try the Naxos Hok-Man Yim Chinese Drums, Poems of Thunder. Alternatively Harvey Mason's drumming on George Benson's Weekend in L.A. "On Broadway" or Stuart Copeland on "Murder by Numbers", Police, Synchronicity. There are many others....good luck ;-)
Kick drum goes down to about 40 Hz but it is more of a 'feeling' of compression in the room than an audible sound (such short duration and so much transient attack). |
I agree RJA. I also think that in most cases it is a marketing ploy.
There really is no way to listen for quality before you buy. |
One thing I've learned Audphile, when I purchase a remaster I never get rid of the original until I've listened to the remaster a few times. I got burned too many times when the remaster sounded worse than the original. And, I believe this happens far too often. So far I'd say approx. 50% of remasters are superior enough to make a repurchase worth while. I'm beginning to suspect that this remaster game is just another marketing ploy. It's a shame too because if you have the opportunity to remaster why not do a good job? Just my 2 cents worth. |
Fagen is a digital freak as far as I can tell.
I like Morph The Cat and I do agree the bass notes go low, but overall the recording is pretty digital sounding. I wouldn't call it artificial, but listening to it a lot, over time it becomes obvious that the attempt was made to make this album sound as hi-rez as possible.
But I do think that the Morph is overall a decent sounding album. I remember when I bought Aja and Gaucho remastered CDs. Just to discover when I came home and played the remastered Aja that the older versions sounds more natural. The remastered Aja and Gaucho CDs sound artificial to me.
Also, I don't think that Morph is the album to take with you to evaluate speakers, although if you think this is the benchmark for quality of recorded bass, then yeah.
There are better discs for that I think. I usually use Patricia Barber's Modern Cool - track 7 for drums and track 11 for bass. Also, Brian Broomberg's WoodII disc has some crazy bass. |
I agree, Rja, but the sad thing is that Audiogon continues to support creeps as long as they pay. |
End of thread dude. I'm sure A'goners are as tired of reading this as I am of participating in it. And please stop sending harassing personal e-mails. I'm sure this is a misuse of Audiogon policies. Sales must be pretty slow for you to devote so much time to this inane banter. With your endearing people skills no wonder why. Bye, Bye "Sparky". |
I have it on vinyl not cd.
BTW, this "limited collection" is 5,000 lp and 1,500 cd.
You can't even count that high. |
Forrestc,
Thanks for your input on this. The thing is I never said I liked this CD. It's alright but I prefer "Nightfly" of Fagens three. "Kamakiriad" is totally bland. All remind me of Steely Dan meets the Dale Warland Singers to some extent but they also have some high points. So I'm not defending this CD one way or another. I certainly never claimed that it was mixed well or that it wasn't "flawed" in some way. There are some low notes on this CD, that's all, and I was curious how they translated to Hz thus this thread. Dtronvig did a very nice job of explaining this for which I expressed my appreciation. My feeling is that Mr. Feil has an attention deficit disorder and it is he who is not paying attention. Again causing an argument where none exists.
And Dear Mr."Sparky", if this the most flawed CD in your collection then your selection must be extremely limited. |
I like the album (cd). IMO (pay attention Rja) the bass is unnatural.
There is no other record or cd in my collection so flawed.
Thanks everybody. |
Hay guys, this thread is getting a little out of hand. Rja, I wouldn't take what Audiofeil says personally. He's just letting all of us know that he doesn't like it. What it boils down to is that some folks like Morph and some don't - but isn't that the way it is with all music? |
This is tough to understand Rja. I offered my thoughts (please see "IMO" in the post) and you responded with a sarcastic post with your own opinion. Matters not to me if you agree, I don't care.
Then I agreed with your post and you're still unhappy.
You can't have it both ways Sparky. |
Mr. Feil,
I have initiated many threads and responded to many others on Audiogon. I have always attempted to employ common courtesy in my posts. I do not attack others for their opinions or beliefs. I do not belittle others for their choice of equipment or musical tastes. I try to respect the differences and learn from them. I can honestly say my participation in Audiogon has expanded my understanding. I am simply attempting to enter into a conversation about audio and music with like minded individuals.
May I remind you that this thread originally asked for Hz conversion for bass notes on the CD "Morph the Cat".
I'm not sure I understand the reason(s) for your aggressive, all knowing tone. For me it's one of the few unpleasant facets of this forum. |
>>Well all I can say is; your opinion must be right and mine must be wrong<<
I agree with you.
Thanks. |
I've used Morph to set subwoofer crossover and volume levels. I try to set the controls so that the bass is slightly boomy but not out of control.
I wouldn't say that it's a bad mix, but your system should reveal how artificial sounding the album sounds. It's quality music, but I prefer his other two solo efforts more. |
Well all I can say is; your opinion must be right and mine must be wrong. After all, you are a dealer and an arrogant one at that! |
The bass is unnatural and bloated.
Auditioning speakers with this recording, as one poster suggests, is a bad idea IMO for that very reason. |
I'm not sure what Audiofeil means when he says "It's a poorly mixed recording", but I know that I'm enjoying the music of Morph the Cat. Anyway, who knows, maybe I have a "tin" ear and Morph is actually a piece of crap recording. |
Dtronvig,
Thanks for your post. That's the information I was looking for. Might be a good CD to take to a speaker audition. |
a toss off...the songs are not worth repeating |
It's a poorly mixed recording. |
I don't have the album, but I got curious and listened to some samples on the web. The lowest note I heard was a very low D, technically D1, which has a fundamental frequency of 36.7hz. This is the low note you hear in the beginning of the title track, for example. The bass is pretty prominent and deeper in tone than than you'd hear on most recordings, even from a bass guitar, so it sounds _really_ low. There isn't a whole lot of energy at the fundamental frequency, but there's more than you'd usually hear, and the low harmonics, starting at 73.4, are pretty strong as well.
The songs are mostly in G, so if you hear a lower pitch than that D1, it's likely to be C1, 32.7hz. The bottom note for a standard bass, acoustic or electric, is E1, 41.2hz, and you generally don't hear much of the fundamental. A five-string bass, which is fairly common now, bottoms out at B0 (B zero), 30.9hz. Below that, you're into pipe organ and synthesizer territory.
Have fun, and crank up the bass,
Drew |
I've only heard Morph the Cat on vinyl and I really don't know how low it does go, but I do know that it goes low! One heck of a great album. |
